Final Vegeta Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 According to Compendium, the VF-1 in Battroid Mode has a power output for ground combat of 17680 PS. PS stands for "pferde staerke", German measure unit for horse-powers. To obtain the same measure in Watt you have to multiply by 735.50. You get 13003640 W, that is 13000 kW. By comparison Gundam RX-78-2 had an output rated at 1380 kW. So, a VF-1 actually is TEN times stronger than RX-78 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchVile Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 hmmm, thats interesting but one thing I have to say is that the humans in Macross had the advantage of overtechnology when the humans in Gundam had to develop it all on their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegis! Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 hmmm, thats interesting but one thing I have to say is that the humans in Macross had the advantage of overtechnology when the humans in Gundam had to develop it all on their own. And isn´t that beautiful. That´s why humans in Gundam are rather lame in comparison to what humanity achieved in Macross. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurin Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 Well, humanity in Macross had the advantage of overtechnology dropped in their laps via the Macross dropping into the Pacific. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zetaplus Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 And let's not get into Super Robot Wars Alpha, where the crash-landing of the ASS-01 on South Ataria Island interrupts the One Year War. I still think that would make an awesome fanfic or MUSH or something....GM Custom Roy Fokker Use, anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB0 Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 And let's not get into Super Robot Wars Alpha, where the crash-landing of the ASS-01 on South Ataria Island interrupts the One Year War. I still think that would make an awesome fanfic or MUSH or something....GM Custom Roy Fokker Use, anyone? They should make an anime based on Super Robot Wars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damaramu Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 Well, humanity in Macross had the advantage of overtechnology dropped in their laps via the Macross dropping into the Pacific. Still better than a colony dropping on ya, I suppose..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchVile Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 Colony drop = lots of death if it hits a city ASS-1 Crash = Early Christmas for the science community.... and some death Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightbat Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 (edited) 1380 kW? we have trains here in holland that deliver more power "our" standard electro locomotive has 2x 1790kW, weighing 84 tons =54kW/1t our Headrunner -a complete train- has 1890Kw at 192t = 9.84Kw/1t these are trains that have a top speed of 180-160 Km/H now I don't know what the Gundam's power-to-weight ratio is edit: ah, around 60t = 23kW/1t (that's quite a difference!) not very impressive when a VF-1 is 19.2t loaded with FP's totalling 677kW/1t Edited November 15, 2003 by Nightbat® Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchVile Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 the 7.5 ton Gundams are from AU series, the original gundam, fully loaded weighted 60 tons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightbat Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 Got the wrong universe, I stand corrected Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VF-19 Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 According to Compendium, the VF-1 in Battroid Mode has a power output for ground combat of 17680 PS.PS stands for "pferde staerke", German measure unit for horse-powers. To obtain the same measure in Watt you have to multiply by 735.50. You get 13003640 W, that is 13000 kW. By comparison Gundam RX-78-2 had an output rated at 1380 kW. So, a VF-1 actually is TEN times stronger than RX-78 Dunno... Stronger is not exactly the right word. I'm sure a Gundam can do some nasty damage to a VF-1 with its fists... The better way of saying this would be that the VF-1 has a higher power output, and if placed in the Gundam Universal Century Universe, it could handle some nasty beam weapons. I'm pretty sure this excess power is used to power the energy converting armor... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druna Skass Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 I still think that would make an awesome fanfic or MUSH or something....GM Custom Roy Fokker Use, anyone? Well I do have that Banpresto with the Titan's paint scheme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druna Skass Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 I'd have to agree with VF-19 there with the idea that the VF-1 needs more power for that armor. On that thought isn't the VF-1 more complicate (the whole transformation thing) and need more power to keep all it's systems running? As for the VF-1 putting a major hurt and just wiping the floor with a Gundam, don't MSs have BIG guns? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VF-19 Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 I'd have to agree with VF-19 there with the idea that the VF-1 needs more power for that armor. On that thought isn't the VF-1 more complicate (the whole transformation thing) and need more power to keep all it's systems running?As for the VF-1 putting a major hurt and just wiping the floor with a Gundam, don't MSs have BIG guns? Yah... The VF-1 shells might not do much against the armour. A beam rifle against a VF-1 is going to do lots... Plus the orignal Gundam had the core block system with the transforming fighter... That's still somewhat complicated... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr March Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 (edited) *nudges this thread* Uh, yeah Mr March has stated this little factoid numerous times on this forum for years already. Power generation in Macross has always been much more powerful than anything in Gundam. Edited November 16, 2003 by Mr March Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Final Vegeta Posted November 15, 2003 Author Share Posted November 15, 2003 I'd have to agree with VF-19 there with the idea that the VF-1 needs more power for that armor. On that thought isn't the VF-1 more complicate (the whole transformation thing) and need more power to keep all it's systems running? That is why VF-1 had two 650 MW thermonuclear engines. Power output for ground combat was supposed to be power output for ground combat (anyway, even Regults' engines power is 1,3 GW). Dunno what VF-0 can do, though. When they got caught by Zentradi you see Max lift and throw Zentradi soldiers with ease, but it seemed that for RX-78 it was more difficult lifting mobil suits, like Amuro was straining the engine. I don't know how much a Zentradi weighs, but since the Valkyrie is supposed to be super light, and the VF-1's weight is scaled down from RX-78's weight, I think it bears the comparison. As for the VF-1 putting a major hurt and just wiping the floor with a Gundam, don't MSs have BIG guns? Macross Zero patented technique: approach the enemy, steal his own weapon and use against him Kawamori said the VF-1 could beat the RX-78, and that's it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macross_Fanboy Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Valkyries can beat Gundams, and it's not biased. Gundams aren't as nimble as a YF-21 or YF-19, and with three modes a Valkyrie simply cannot lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anubis Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 (edited) Valkyries can beat Gundams, and it's not biased. Gundams aren't as nimble as a YF-21 or YF-19, and with three modes a Valkyrie simply cannot lose. What about funnel equipped mobile suits? Sazabi, Nu Gundam, or Providence could light up several valks. Just for sake of comparison. Regular mobile suit (like the RX-78, Mk. II, Gelgoog, etc.), I'd give the valk the edge. Edited November 16, 2003 by Anubis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB0 Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Valkyries can beat Gundams, and it's not biased. Gundams aren't as nimble as a YF-21 or YF-19, and with three modes a Valkyrie simply cannot lose. What about funnel equipped mobile suits? Sazabi, Nu Gundam, or Providence could light up several valks. Just for sake of comparison. Regular mobile suit (like the RX-78, Mk. II, Gelgoog, etc.), I'd give the valk the edge. Missile clouds VS funnels... Hmmm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druna Skass Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Valkyries can beat Gundams, and it's not biased. Gundams aren't as nimble as a YF-21 or YF-19, and with three modes a Valkyrie simply cannot lose. I think a VF against certain MSs would be a fairly even fight. Like a fight against a variable form suit like all the Zeta versions, some of the Titans suits, the Aegis, etc. And some suits have some little bit of technology that I'm sure would make them a pain in the ass like the Blitz Gundam and it's Mirage Colloid or the Phase Shift armor the other SEED units have, Wing Zero with the Zero system could end up being a nuisance as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB0 Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 ... Wing Zero with the Zero system could end up being a nuisance as well. Or Wing Zero with it's capital ship gun would be a nuisance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali Sama Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 ... Wing Zero with the Zero system could end up being a nuisance as well. Or Wing Zero with it's capital ship gun would be a nuisance. oen word. "NUKES" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druna Skass Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 How do the nukes VFs carry compare to the nukes the GP02 has? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isamu Atreides 86 Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 Valkyries can beat Gundams, and it's not biased. Gundams aren't as nimble as a YF-21 or YF-19, and with three modes a Valkyrie simply cannot lose. What about funnel equipped mobile suits? Sazabi, Nu Gundam, or Providence could light up several valks. Just for sake of comparison. Regular mobile suit (like the RX-78, Mk. II, Gelgoog, etc.), I'd give the valk the edge. Focker, Jenius or Dyson could outfly Amuro or Char. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anubis Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 How do the nukes VFs carry compare to the nukes the GP02 has? GP02 had only 1 nuke. I don't know what yield, but it was big. Someone here may know the actual stats of the 02's nuke grade vs a reaction missle, but the GP02's was surely quite a high yield. Since a VF-1 can carry up to six missles, it again kind of has the edge there though. Even with the heavier armor of some mobile suits, a good pilot can hit the weak spots present on even the most bad ass of mobile suits and sever some limbs. A later series valk has an added edge thanks to the pinpoint barrier the 17,19,and 22 carry, which whould be able to take a beam rifle shot just fine. Funnels could make a valk's life suck. They could be used to help block a micro missle barrage, and if the valk diverts it's attention to the funnels, the suit has an opporunity with it's other weapons. Then if the valk slips too close it could be beam sabered. However, above all else it is true that a reaction missle up anything's @$$ is in generall a win for the valk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druna Skass Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 (edited) How manuervable are nuke missile anyway, I 'd assume unless they have some proximity fuse they wouldn't be to hard to dodge or shoot down. Kira and Char didn't seem to have a hard time shooting the Federation and Alliance's nukes down. With a VF-1 since the nukes are exposed would a lucky shot set one off? Edited November 17, 2003 by Druna Skass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druna Skass Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 (edited) Focker, Jenius or Dyson could outfly Amuro or Char. What about Zechs, Treize or Mwu La Fllaga? Edited November 17, 2003 by Druna Skass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB0 Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 Focker, Jenius or Dyson could outfly Amuro or Char. What about Zechs or Treize? Amuro and Char are newtypes. Telepaths. Zechs and Treize ren't. They have no advantages. Now if someone who knows what you're going to do before you do it can lose(presumably because MSes are slower than VFs), what chance do mere mortals have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB0 Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 How manuervable are nuke missile anyway, I 'd assume unless they have some proximity fuse they wouldn't be to hard to dodge or shoot down. Kira and Char didn't seem to have a hard time shooting the Federation and Alliance's nukes down. It depends on the delivery vehicle. With a VF-1 since the nukes are exposed would a lucky shot set one off? No. A nuclear device is not like conventional explosives(only some of which explode when shot anyways). http://science.howstuffworks.com/nuclear-bomb.htm as an educational link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druna Skass Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 Now if someone who knows what you're going to do before you do it can lose(presumably because MSes are slower than VFs), what chance do mere mortals have? Zero System, with that both of you'll konw what each other will do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anubis Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 If you limit to regular mobile suits, a Zaku, Gelgoog, GM , up to a Mk. II or Re-GZ, or something like that, the playing field levels out some and I would generally give the valk the edge. When you step up to the more elaborate, dressed up "main character" suits, it becomes a problem. Funnels, Really big beam weaponry, phase shift armor, and stuff like that kind of turn the tables a little. To the point it could almost turn into another Star Trek vs Star Wars type thought pattern. A reaction missle up anything's @$$ is the end of that fellow, but that missle could be shot down. The range the reaction missile was fired at and how decent the suit pilot is is a factor, and sending it in followng a micro missle barrage could increase its chances of hitting. Likewise, one direct hit from a beam rifle is it for the valk, if the pilot can't dodge or block with the pinpoint barrier (for later valks). For speed and agility, the valk definately has an edge, and the inherent versatility the three modes can give. Mobile Suits have their own advantages, and disadvantages, just like the valks do, there are so many variables given with the different types of mobile suits. How about a Q-Rau? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Final Vegeta Posted November 17, 2003 Author Share Posted November 17, 2003 I think a VF against certain MSs would be a fairly even fight. Kawamori said VF-1 and RX-78. No more matches were thougt. Since Macross 7 is the second TV series of Macross, maybe Macross Plus / Macross 7 era was intended to be superior to Z Gundam era (but I've actually seen only RX-78). And I know I caused this VS war (some weeks ago there was another one who tried, but only I succeeded), but I think the "gimme your best shot" talk is ridiculous. Anyway, I think that a porn version of the Minmay attack would rock, I mean, Gundam pilots are all teens As for the Blitz Gundam, it may be safe as long as the pilot doesn't feel the urge to sing or simply hum I still think Varauta equipments could be kinda effective... spiritia radar could be used as an effective way to counter visual cloak, and the spiritia absorption beam could act like a stungun... FV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montarvillois Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 1380 kW?we have trains here in holland that deliver more power "our" standard electro locomotive has 2x 1790kW, weighing 84 tons =54kW/1t our Headrunner -a complete train- has 1890Kw at 192t = 9.84Kw/1t these are trains that have a top speed of 180-160 Km/H now I don't know what the Gundam's power-to-weight ratio is edit: ah, around 60t = 23kW/1t (that's quite a difference!) not very impressive when a VF-1 is 19.2t loaded with FP's totalling 677kW/1t Yeah but can your trains fly or transform to gerwalk ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Final Vegeta Posted November 18, 2003 Author Share Posted November 18, 2003 A later series valk has an added edge thanks to the pinpoint barrier the 17,19,and 22 carry IIRC the VF-17 doesn't have PPB. Then if the valk slips too close it could be beam sabered. A beam sword is made with plasma. Actually, Valkyrie use plasma too, their engine exhausts are plasma. But if you notice, YF-21's vector nozzles don't melt when they are used to bent the plasma flow. So, either Valkyries are extremely resistent to heat, or they use a magnetic field to canalize plasma. The latter is the most likely. I don't know physics, but it seems that a simple low powered magnetic field can easily block whatever amount of plasma, while you need a more powerful magnetic field to block charged particle beams. In the world of Macross nobody ever fires plasma. It's either lasers or charged particle beams. The reasons are unknown, but I think that the energy converting armor is a kind of magnetic field (not a typical spherical shaped barrier, obviously), so plasma is a useless energy based weapon type. Otherwise Valkyries could have used their exhaust to perform jeet kune do style martial moves, or their engines could be modified to fire plasma volleys from their soles in Battroid, but nothing like that ever happened. So, I don't think Valkyries could be sabered at all. As a side note, there was some scene in SDF Macross where Battroids walk over SDF-1, and there is a small burst under their feet at every step. At first it seemed strange because the burst should have moved away the VF from the Macross, but the VF remain glued to the soil. I think that the burst was used to expand magnetic field. Otherwise it is just another animation error FV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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