HG and Robotech Debates

[Robelwell202]

Yes, indeed, folks, I am now one of the few, the proud, the hopeless pariahs that have felt the wrath of MEMO's banhammer.

I think what's really ridiculous is the fact that MEMO expects me to appologize for my remars, then spend a month 'thinking about what I've done', as if I'm some damn kid.

For those of you who are curious, I'll do my best to reconstruct the statement I made that set them off. I can't vouch for 100% accuracy, but I'll do my best from memory.

Title: To MEMO and Mav...

A pattern has been well and truly established, and it's not too difficult to see this pattern as the result of blind fan-devotion corruption. It seems that anyone that disagrees with your assertion that Harmony Gold can do no wrong, and anything they produce is of the highest quality gets banned.

First, SetoKaiba gets banned (or suspended, whatever you want to call it. A spade's a spade) for presenting undeniable evidence concerning Harmony Gold's rights in regards to Macross. Next, HappyPenguins gets banned for a relatively minor incident. Finally, Waters7 is banned for following up with Seto's facts.

I can only wonder how long Bowspearer has before he gets the same treatment.

(Author's note: Bowspearer, a poster on RT.com, has been following in Seto's and Waters7's footsteps, and presenting a logical case for HG not having the rights MEMO and Mav say they do.)

I give him just a few days.

Mav, you were the one who originally banned Seto, but you can't bring yourself to unban him. Disgusting.

MEMO, try opening your eyes to the truth that exists, instead of the truth you manufacture.

If this post gets me banned, then so be it. To be honest, I rather enjoy the idea of being a martyr. I'm through with this site anyway. I can honestly say that I cannot think of a more ridiculous attempt at customer relations, except maybe for some historical footage of Communist Russia.

Like I said, I cannot account for 100% accuracy, but the majority of it's there, I believe. Roughly 5 minutes after I posted this on RT.com, it was deleted by Mav, but since the 'Communist Russia' comment was referenced by MEMO in his banning message, I am pretty certain that Mav sent him the contents of my post.

Ultimately, I'm supposed to appologize to both MEMO and Mav, then wait for a month, 'To cool down' (As MEMO put it). Since I have no desire to rejoin that site, my answer is a firm "HELL NO!!!"

Thanks for reading this, folks... I hope it was entertaining.

[Gubaba]

It all makes me wonder if Memo's keeping the thread open as bait to attract people he wants to ban...

Oh well. Again, he's a mod there, so what he says, goes. I'm certainly glad he has no power here, though. That would suck.

[Seto Kaiba]

It all makes me wonder if Memo's keeping the thread open as bait to attract people he wants to ban...

Y'know, I wouldn't be at all surprised if that were true... though I'm more inclined to suspect MEMO has left the thread open so that he can continue to present his misguided views as though they were fact, in hopes that now that those of us who know the facts are banned, he can drum up some people who actually believe him.

Oh well. Again, he's a mod there, so what he says, goes. I'm certainly glad he has no power here, though. That would suck.

It's an unfortunate thing for the entire Robotech fanbase. I wonder how long it'll be before it becomes a case of "if you question me at all, I'll ban you" from those two.

[Einherjar]

My conclusion from today's drama; fans are expendable.

Don't think, consume Robotech products, support it indefinitely. Don't question anything, you can be replaced relatively easily if you don't play ball.

It's the worse aspects of Communism and Capitalism under the same roof.

[Gubaba]

It's an unfortunate thing for the entire Robotech fanbase. I wonder how long it'll be before it becomes a case of "if you question me at all, I'll ban you" from those two.

If it gets bad enough for enough people, they'll ALL move elsewhere. Hell, maybe they'll all start up their own sites, as well.

What I find interesting is that, as opposed to the disgruntlement after Shadow Chronicles came out and Pie-Guy had his fifteen minutes, it seems like a lot more of the banned members are organized in a positive way, rather than just griping. You've got your (admittedly non-Robotech) site, HP has hers, Robelwell202 has his, and everyone can advertise through JT. It's not like being booted off of RT.com is actually hindering anyone. On the contrary, I've seen more pure love for Robotech in the last few weeks than I've EVER seen before. Needless to say, I think the *object* of that love is rather unworthy, but when faced with such an outpouring of devotion, how can I quibble? As Kevin McKeever said a year or so ago, "It's good time to be a Robotech fan!"

[Seto Kaiba]

If it gets bad enough for enough people, they'll ALL move elsewhere. Hell, maybe they'll all start up their own sites, as well.

Nah... having wandered amongst the Robotech fans for as long as I have, I feel fairly confident in saying that most would just say "to hell with it" and give up on trying to interact with their fellow fans. Some would jump ship to other sites, and a few would try to start their own, but most just can't be arsed.

What I find interesting is that, as opposed to the disgruntlement after Shadow Chronicles came out and Pie-Guy had his fifteen minutes, it seems like a lot more of the banned members are organized in a positive way, rather than just griping. You've got your (admittedly non-Robotech) site, HP has hers, Robelwell202 has his, and everyone can advertise through JT. It's not like being booted off of RT.com is actually hindering anyone.

How did I get lumped in with that? My project has nothing at all to do with Robotech.

I will agree, you have a point that getting booted from Robotech.com hasn't exactly hindered anybody's efforts towards their particular fan projects. All banning us really accomplished was further depriving Robotech.com of intelligent and knowledgeable contributors. Considering that said contributors were already in short supply, that does kind of highlight the shortsighted stupidity of those in charge. To my mixed amusement and exasperation, it hasn't stopped the denizens of Robotech.com from asking me questions either... it's just changed the way they ask me. That might change soon too, since most of the people who refer people to me have gotten banned for reasons that make no sense.

On the contrary, I've seen more pure love for Robotech in the last few weeks than I've EVER seen before. Needless to say, I think the *object* of that love is rather unworthy, but when faced with such an outpouring of devotion, how can I quibble? As Kevin McKeever said a year or so ago, "It's good time to be a Robotech fan!"

'kay buddy, I think you might need to take a breather from the translations and your day job, you're startin' to talk crazy now.

Lately, the only love for Robotech I've seen has been coming from JT/Zen72 and Whamhammer. I think it's reaching a bit to classify what dougbendo does as "showing love for Robotech", and the rest has all been commentary on the various asinine behaviors of Harmony Gold and those associated with it. Even JT's podcast had a fair bit of hate for the suckup crowd mixed in with the "love".

[VFTF1]

Just as an aside - because I do think these are important distinctions to be made...

This has nothing to do with Communism and Capitalism, let alone "Communist Russia." I understand the temptation to draw a parallel between Communist Russia supressing free thinking, free thought and opposition view points that go against the "official" line with what Memo and Mav are doing on HG's website - but the comparisson is completely baseless.

RT.com is a private website that is generally open to the public, but, like any other website, has its' terms of use. It's like a hotel or a house where there is an open-door policy. Generally anybody can come in and be a guest. But every house and hotel sets down its' own guidelines that guests must follow.

Some people do not like these guidelines - that is their right. They can go somewhere else.

Meanwhile, Communist Russia, particularly during its' more opressive years, had a monopoly on what was and what wasn't permissible, and what could and could not be said. There was nothing private about it, and their "terms of use" so to speak, were not something you could disagree with and just go somewhere else to do your own thing.

In this sense, the comparisson falls flat on its' face and whenever I see people crying about their freedom of speech being infringed on the internet by mods, or suggesting it, as in the case of the "Communist Russia" comments, I kind of shake my head and think "muddled thinking, muddled concepts..."

That said, I DO of course generally AGREE that a private website, just like a private hotel or a private house needs to be as open and welcoming and broadminded as possible if it wants to attract intelligent, active and fun guests. Whenever any place becomes too closed minded, narrow and prefers to use its' privilage of asking you to leave rather than talking to you reasonably, that place is going to generally look bad.

But looking bad, just like being dumb, is not against the law and it shouldn't be. People have a right to be idiots.

Remember when Memo came on these boards and people started to sort of cross a line attacking him, suggesting he can't say certain things? I suggested that Memo could say what he wants - it's his right. Memo thanked me for defending his right to speak, but when I asked Memo if he could maybe defend the same right of people who disagree with him over at RT.com - silence.

Silence is also a right. Technically, I could open a website called HappyFunLand.com and randomly ban members every hour by lottery. I could one day decide to Ban everybody whose name starts with the letter M. I could decide to ask every member to paypal me 5 USD under the threat of being banned if they didn't. I could do a lot of crazy and generally stupid things on my own website and scare people away by doing it...or maybe, ironically...it would attract a following? Who knows?

Either way - guys... there's no point in getting all worked up over the policies at RT.com and comparing them to Communist Russia or any other political system that took away people's right to choose and to privacy. RT.com doesn't take anybody's rights away - it just has a policy that could be considered annoying and counter-productive.

It is amusing to watch as they seem to whiddle away at their dwindling fan base. It is also obviously very emotional for people who grew up with Robotech and have a fondness for it to find themselves getting banned for being open minded rather than RT drones.

Nevertheless - the Communist Russia comparisson is just plain wrong IMO.

Naturally, if I were a mod at RT.com, or a mod anywhere, I would never advocate banning people with different views. This is because I generally hold the arrogant opinion that I can beat most folks in an honest argument - and even if they don't end up being convinced, I'm satisfied if both sides can just present their differing views.

I think banning people with opposite views is childish and it's akin to trying to pretend that other views don't exist - because if you admitted that they do, it would threaten your isolated happy little fantasy world where you're just right.

Nevertheless - people have the right to live in such fantasy worlds.

I'd say just let 'em be.

Obviously those guys have no love for Robotech. Seriously - the whole site is dedicated to two things: strange upper-case diatriabes about HG's legal rights and banning people who write in coherent english and end their sentences with question marks.

If that's what gives them the jollies - fine.

Pete

[Robelwell202]

If it gets bad enough for enough people, they'll ALL move elsewhere. Hell, maybe they'll all start up their own sites, as well.

What I find interesting is that, as opposed to the disgruntlement after Shadow Chronicles came out and Pie-Guy had his fifteen minutes, it seems like a lot more of the banned members are organized in a positive way, rather than just griping. You've got your (admittedly non-Robotech) site, HP has hers, Robelwell202 has his, and everyone can advertise through JT. It's not like being booted off of RT.com is actually hindering anyone. On the contrary, I've seen more pure love for Robotech in the last few weeks than I've EVER seen before. Needless to say, I think the *object* of that love is rather unworthy, but when faced with such an outpouring of devotion, how can I quibble? As Kevin McKeever said a year or so ago, "It's good time to be a Robotech fan!"

Gubaba, Thanks for the mention of my site.

You're right, the object of our enjoyment is rather unworthy, if you look at HG. For me, though, it's a love of a particular mecha design.

See, I'll explain something. RT, for me, holds a kind of special place. As a kid, it was my first real exposure to anime (much more substantial, than, say, the few odd episodes I caught of 'Star Blazers'), and much later in life, my gateway to Macross. Even though I freely acknowledge that Macross stuff far outclasses the things that RT has done recently (RT:TSC for example), I still am a fan of the original 85. Therefore, I've based my novel in the 'Macross Saga' of RT. Do I give a poo about HG? Hell no! My 'fan status' goes only so far as the original 85 eps, and that's it.

Again, thanks for the mention, sir.

[Gubaba]

How did I get lumped in with that? My project has nothing at all to do with Robotech.

Yes. Which is why I said "admittedly non-Robotech." And yet, weren't you talking about adding a Robotech infopedia to your site a while back?

Lately, the only love for Robotech I've seen has been coming from JT/Zen72 and Whamhammer. I think it's reaching a bit to classify what dougbendo does as "showing love for Robotech", and the rest has all been commentary on the various asinine behaviors of Harmony Gold and those associated with it. Even JT's podcast had a fair bit of hate for the suckup crowd mixed in with the "love".

I don't really count dougbendo (which is why I didn't mention him). Even if he's being reasonable now, he's still part of the problem..a BIG part of the problem. What I'm saying is that Robelwell202, HP, and JT all seem talented and bright, they're all getting coordinated, and they're talented and bright enough to become a focal point for people fed up with HG. Or maybe I'm reading too much into it, and just enjoy seeing people take on "the man."

Gubaba, Thanks for the mention of my site.

You're right, the object of our enjoyment is rather unworthy, if you look at HG. For me, though, it's a love of a particular mecha design.

See, I'll explain something. RT, for me, holds a kind of special place. As a kid, it was my first real exposure to anime (much more substantial, than, say, the few odd episodes I caught of 'Star Blazers'), and much later in life, my gateway to Macross. Even though I freely acknowledge that Macross stuff far outclasses the things that RT has done recently (RT:TSC for example), I still am a fan of the original 85. Therefore, I've based my novel in the 'Macross Saga' of RT. Do I give a poo about HG? Hell no! My 'fan status' goes only so far as the original 85 eps, and that's it.

Again, thanks for the mention, sir.

You're welcome!

And I guess I can see why some people like Robotech (I heard about Macross BEFORE Robotech started, so when it began, I thought it was just Macross with a new title. Visits to toy stores near Los Angeles's Little Tokyo area provided me with the rest. Hell, even my elementary school notebook was covered with pictures and names that I cut out of Macross model kit boxes and the like...nowhere did I put the name Robotech). Or rather, I've come to see how people can like "THE ORIGINAL 85!" mostly in comparison to how bad Shadow Chronicles was, and how badly HG's representatives have been acting. Compared to the evasions and half-truths now, Macek's evasions and half-truths seem like small potatoes. And while I think that the Original 85 (when did they start getting called that, anyway?) have a lot more BS piled into them than Shadow Chronicles does, that only because they're about 40 hours longer. Take any three consecutive episodes of the old Robotech that you like...Shadow Chronicles will be worse in nearly every respect. So...yeah. I still don't the old Robotech, but I find it less intolerable than the new Robotech.

[Einherjar]

Nevertheless - the Communist Russia comparisson is just plain wrong IMO.

At most then, it's just the bad side of capitalism with normal people, the best description I could use, making it worse wanting authority by acting like idiots.

[VFTF1]

At most then, it's just the bad side of capitalism with normal people

Sorry, I'm gonna disagree with that too My first thought when reading that is: "Capitalism HAS a bad side?"

Unless, that is, your complaint is synonymous with "it's just the bad side of life" - because yes, "life" has a bad side. Sometimes we get headaches, tooth aches, the weather sucks, we catch a cold, go to an expensive restaurant where the waitress hits us in the head by accident with a bottle of wine (happened to me!), cops pull us over for speeding, people give us dirty looks etc etc etc - and yeah, ok - in that sense it's "the bad side" of life.

But to blame capitalism (which I define as just being equal freedom/voluntary exchange between individuals) for some individuals not agreeing about everything and, in this case, some people banning some other people from a website is kind of (IMO) like blaming life itself when somebody's but itches at the exact moment when they have to stand up and deliver an important speech that will make or break their future career - and all they can think of is "damn I really wanna scratch my butt."

We CAN "blame" life itself for creating such situations - but I don't think we should, because I think "blame" only makes sense when dealing with causational factors that were a) conscious and b) had alternatives open to them.

See - this is why I think that you can only really blame PEOPLE - not systems as such, and particularly not the natural order. You can think it a bad system or a bad natural order, but to change it, you need to first understand how it works and perhaps try to manipulate/control it to your advantage... but blaming it... I get visions of people standing and shouting "I HATE YOU RAIN!" instead of just finding shelter or thinking up umbrellas...

But I'm probably just thinking too much about this.

I know what the dude meant - I think at least... He probably just meant to make a general analogy that the RT.com website was behaving as if it were Communist Russia and alternative views needed to be censored.

I guess that's a fair analogy to make if you keep the context in mind... I just sometimes find the argumentation odd...

It's kind of like going into a store and - say you see a TV you like, but the price is - in your opinion - too high...

How many people go up to the store manager and say "hey - I like that TV, but your price sucks. Lower it!"

Most people would just go to a different store...

I dunno..

I had too much coffee and chocolate today.

Pete

[Robelwell202]

VFTF1, Let me throw a counter-point to you...

In the grand scheme of things, MEMO and Mav have perpetuated a series of bannings that can be attributed to one thing: They banned people who disagreed with thier view. More to the point, they disagreed with anyone who doubted the absolute authority of Harmony Gold to do whatever it wanted with materials taht were clearly the property of Macross designers.

In other words, the view that 'Harmony Gold can do nothing wrong, Harmony Gold did an excellent job with The Shadow Chronicles, and Harmony Gold is run by a bunch og geniuses!' is thier guiding principle. Civil discourse and open debate about these points has been all but extinguished by these two moderators, and anyone who dares to stand up and call them out is also deemed a pariah. Take my case, for example.

SetoKaiba simply put forward the facts concerning the whole debate, and porved beyond a shadoe of a doubt that Harmony GOld did NOT, in fact, have the capability of using Macross desogns in future productions. Now, the bulk of the debate was heated, but it remained civil, at least as far as SetoKaiba was concerned. Sure, he threw a few colorful phrases in the mix to explain his utter bafflement over some people's utter stupidity and reluctance to accept the truth, but for the most part, he was civil, thorough, and direct. For that, he was banned by Mav, who now claims to have recieved multiple complaints about Seto's 'conduct'... A claim that is dubious, at best.

MEMO has continued this trend by banning Waters7, for fruthering Seto's case-study. Again, Waters7 was cool, calm, and civil. MEMO, however, felt the need to ban him, for the same eason as Mav did with Seto: Simply put, the evidence that Waters7 cited flew in the face of the 'truth' that MEMO has concocted and accepted as gospel. For him, as has been shown repeatedly, anyone that disagrees with his view of Harmony Gold recieves a swift smack from the banhammer.

Now, you get to me. Seeing what had happened with Seto, Waters7, and HappyPenguins (Who'd also gotten the Banhammer wrath for a ridiculous, minor incident) had moved me to a decision that I was through with RT.com. I decided to voice my utter contempt for the behavior of Mav and MEMO. I did so in a calm, clear manner, with absolutely no malice indicated in my post. Fruthermore, I had said that I was through with the site, and I didn't care if I was banned or not.

Initially, Mav had deleted the post, and presented me with a lame lie about others complaining about Seto's 'Rude and condescending' manner. Then, MEMO decides to ban me, but not before chiding me like a child, and referencing the remark I'd made comapring HG's public relations practices to those perpetuated by Communist Russia. Ultimately, my proposed 'pennance' is to 'cool off' for a month, and appologize to MEMO and Mav, something I have no desire to do.

Given the above examples, one can see clearly that any kind of 'political dissidents' among the fanbase present on RT.com are simply made to dissapear. Call me odd, but that does strike a rather interesting parallel to practices used by the USSR.

[VFTF1]

Well, I appreciate the clarification, and trust me - I'm on your side here. And yes - in that very very narrow context, you can find an analogy between the political repression of dissident voices in the USSR and the opression of dissident voices by a mod on a website. Agreed.

The thing is - well... I'm sorry if sounds a little riske - and I will remind everyone that I defended Memo's right to speak his mind when he came here and EVEN defended his right to write in CAPSLOCK...

But just on a stylistic and personal level...

IF YOU TELLS ME A WEBSIGHTS BEEN RUNS BY GUYS RITE LIKE THIS AND SAY LIKE HG HAVE RIGHT WHERE PROOF NOT IMPORTANT BUT JUST LISTEN TO LAME ARGUMENT MINE AND GO TO WESBITE ANIME-LOVER.COM IT ALL THERE WHAT YOU WANT ....

then I get the feeling that the Trolls are running the website rather than being run off the website.

It's like - now...to be clear again - I have NOTHING against trolls having their own place to hang out on the Internet....

But maybe this will help ease some of the confusion and suffering...

Just think of RT.com as Bizzaroo World.

You know Bizzaro World? Where up is down and left is right and red is yellow and white is black? Originally it was an alternative universe in a Superman comic, but I think nowadays it's kind of the popculture equivalent of "Orwellian"..

Well - think of RT.com as being a website where TROLLS ARE NORMAL and NORMAL PEOPLE GET BANNED.

If you spell correctly, use punctuation, refrain from personal insults and make rational arguments - you get banned.

IF YOU RITING AND NOT EVER ANSWERING OTHER PEOPLE SAYINGS BUT JUST SOMETIMES MAKE STATING THAT YOU WRIGHT AND GOING AWAY...

you get to be a moderator.

That's what it's more like to me than the USSR.

I don't see Memo and the RT.com crew as being evil, ruthless or tyranical. You give them too much credit by making that comparisson. It's just a place on the internet where Trolls rule and Regular Folks get the book thrown at them.

Trolls need love too, so obviously God gave us RT.com

Pete

[Einherjar]

But to blame capitalism (which I define as just being equal freedom/voluntary exchange between individuals) for some individuals not agreeing about everything and, in this case, some people banning some other people from a website is kind of (IMO) like blaming life itself when somebody's but itches at the exact moment when they have to stand up and deliver an important speech that will make or break their future career - and all they can think of is "damn I really wanna scratch my butt."

I'm separating what HG does (Capitalism) and what certain fans do. Capitalism in moderation is good because of the benefits it can give to consumers and producers. But too much focus on it without checks and balances can be a bad thing; monopolies, exploitation, greed, etc. I'm hoping that all HG has wanted to achieve this whole time is just to make money. For a TV show, the lengths they've been willing to get it have been questionable, but legal to a point. It's only bad depending on your POV and personal ethics, and the only thing we as consumers have power over is how to respond to it. After all, achieving their goal means getting money from consumers for their products. My POV is that, while legal, their actions were going towards the bad side of capitalism, being greedy with Macross, but it ended up failing most of the time. A lot of it can be observed even without me, so there is some truth to that.

What people like MEMO do is take what is simply a business operation like rt.com and blow the entire thing out of proportion (ex. making it personal and serious business). Being just an average fan, regardless of what he thinks he is, his actions normally should be taken as totally separate from the company and franchise. But as HG's moderator for rt.com and someone who has a relationship with specific members of the company, what he does can eventually become a liability for business because of the conflict of interest he’s shown. He decides to take actions in the best interest of HG, Robotech, and himself, being in the in-crowd, when he’s really overstepping boundaries regarding established rules even he's obligated to follow, like the TOU.

So while HG brought themselves into a bad economic position due to their aggressive business decisions, a bunch of brown nosing nobodies, who totally want to be on their side and have the power to show it, are making it worse in an official venue that they own, the center of the franchise online, yet gave them some authority in it.

Edited October 17, 2009 by Einherjar

[Wanzerfan]

When you stop to think that people like Maverick_LSC and MEMO1DOMINION, who believe in censoring any opinion other than "Harmony Gold is wonderful, Robotech is perfect", and dougbendo, who believes the best way to express his fan status is to publicly badmouth anyone who doesn't agree with him, are considered the spokesmen of the fanbase, it really gives you a clear impression of just how far Robotech has really fallen these last twenty years. In most any healthy fandom, these people would be laughed out of town as mentally unstable or just downright stupid, yet in Robotech, a franchise kept alive by a handful of fanatics who've stuck with the series as it went nowhere for 25 years, these people are held up as what a fan SHOULD be... and that's sad.

That Harmony Gold doesn't seem to give a damn how badly people like that blacken the already-reviled Robotech name just reinforces the distinct impression that Harmony Gold has washed its hands of Robotech after handing the reins over to Warner Bros.

(To me, what's REALLY revolting about this whole situation is that if I were asked which group I had more respect for, I would be able to say, with no hesitatation, that I have far more respect for dougbendo than I ever will for either Maverick_LSC or MEMO1DOMINION. At the very least, dougbendo believes in voicing your opinion, even if it pisses people off... and I can respect that.)

One of my first experiences with that prick dougbendo was in a thread I posted in Robotech.com a few years ago entitled "A civil debate, which had the better mecha evolution: Macross or the RDF/REF?" (I think that's how it was titled, I posted it so long ago that I can't really remember the tilte) flameing, even though I expressly stated in the title "no flameing". I warned him once about his posting behavior, threatening to have him banned from the thread by a moderator (totalkrig being one of the saner moderators at the time, he may have been an ass, but he was my type of ass) if he kept it up. That kept him quiet for a while. Too bad I got permabanned from the site a few months afterward, it was a pretty good thread.

[Gubaba]

One of my first experiences with that prick dougbendo was in a thread I posted in Robotech.com a few years ago entitled "A civil debate, which had the better mecha evolution: Macross or the RDF/REF?" (I think that's how it was titled, I posted it so long ago that I can't really remember the tilte) flameing, even though I expressly stated in the title "no flameing". I warned him once about his posting behavior, threatening to have him banned from the thread by a moderator (totalkrig being one of the saner moderators at the time, he may have been an ass, but he was my type of ass) if he kept it up. That kept him quiet for a while. Too bad I got permabanned from the site a few months afterward, it was a pretty good thread.

Dougbendo flames people? Color me shocked!

Next in surprising news, it has been determined that ice cream is a tasty treat, but too much may spoil the appetite.

[Jasonc]

IIRC, in the Space Station Liberty interview where that quote originated from, that situation did happen. He referred to the HG legal team about not wanting him to reveal too much, actually nothing, and repeated "We own ALL the rights to Robotech," a couple of times. That was all he was allowed to say, or wanted to say, regarding that sensitive issue. In fact, it was his general response to a few important questions asked during the interview. Everything else, after the fact, I think turned out to be lies.

In regards to the first statement... HG, uses that other "safety clause" to not unveil the true facts. Ask a question about rights, and they throw in the use of all Robotech. Dig further, and supposedly, they "aren't allowed to say". The fact is, is that it's not divulging anything about the specifics of their contracts, but moreso divulging the conclusions of them. I would say it's clever, but so many people, including many Robotech fans are seeing through it, that it's really hindering them. While it does seem that more fans are showing a true love for Robotech by expressing it in websites and what not that are unrestricted, it also seems like the franchise is even more bleek than before the news of of RTSC came out. For people who can't stand Robotech because of it's dissection of the 3 original series, the news seems good due to the fact that fans are destroying their own fanbase. opposition need only watch. For Robotech fans like Whamhammer, Zen72, and several others, keep your fan love, but I wouldn't support the franchise anymore. There needs to be a line that is drawn that you decide you just aren't going to cross. For me, it was Shadow Chronicles, where I decided I just wasn't gonna give my money to it. The blue Beta was my last hoopla for anything, and that was simply out of principle. I, along with Wham, and a few others, worked hard in getting word out to at least have them notice that the Beta needed to be made. yet, after enough people talked, here it is. Aside from that blue beta in my hands, I do not support the franchise in anyway. I suggest all you fans of RT who are unsatisfied with the BS, and half-@ssed product simply give it up. If you love the characters, the mecha, etc, the 3 original series are just as interesting, if not better. Then again, it's just my opinion, but you need to do what you feel is right.

[Gubaba]

In regards to the first statement... HG, uses that other "safety clause" to not unveil the true facts. Ask a question about rights, and they throw in the use of all Robotech. Dig further, and supposedly, they "aren't allowed to say". The fact is, is that it's not divulging anything about the specifics of their contracts, but moreso divulging the conclusions of them. I would say it's clever, but so many people, including many Robotech fans are seeing through it, that it's really hindering them. While it does seem that more fans are showing a true love for Robotech by expressing it in websites and what not that are unrestricted, it also seems like the franchise is even more bleek than before the news of of RTSC came out. For people who can't stand Robotech because of it's dissection of the 3 original series, the news seems good due to the fact that fans are destroying their own fanbase. opposition need only watch. For Robotech fans like Whamhammer, Zen72, and several others, keep your fan love, but I wouldn't support the franchise anymore. There needs to be a line that is drawn that you decide you just aren't going to cross. For me, it was Shadow Chronicles, where I decided I just wasn't gonna give my money to it. The blue Beta was my last hoopla for anything, and that was simply out of principle. I, along with Wham, and a few others, worked hard in getting word out to at least have them notice that the Beta needed to be made. yet, after enough people talked, here it is. Aside from that blue beta in my hands, I do not support the franchise in anyway. I suggest all you fans of RT who are unsatisfied with the BS, and half-@ssed product simply give it up. If you love the characters, the mecha, etc, the 3 original series are just as interesting, if not better. Then again, it's just my opinion, but you need to do what you feel is right.

Well said.

I have to say, I don't understand Macross fans who are hoping for new Robotech productions (unless they REALLY REALLY want to know what happened to Rick Hunter, since Macross doesn't address the Megaroad-01 question either), but I definitely understand Mospeada fans wanting to see something new, since Robotech is really their only hope for any kind of continuation.

Of course, trying to view Shadow Chronicles as a Mospeada sequel makes it look EVEN WORSE than it already does, plus is contradicts Love, Live, Alive...so...what's left? Why, unless someone really, really liked Shadow Chronicles, would anyone support HG anymore?

[Robelwell202]

Of course, trying to view Shadow Chronicles as a Mospeada sequel makes it look EVEN WORSE than it already does, plus is contradicts Love, Live, Alive...so...what's left? Why, unless someone really, really liked Shadow Chronicles, would anyone support HG anymore?

Well, For me, HG has dropped the ball. I never really expected anything more from the 'Robotech' franchise to begin with, and since 'RT:TSC' failed so miserably, it's become clear that Robotech should have always been relegated to one of those legacy animated series from the '80s, full of nostalgic recall for those of us who have a fond rememberamce for it.

In regards to anything new, I've done the next best thing and made my own!

Something that was mentioned above, in a previous post, was the idea that fan-created projects have been operating with a new=found momentum. I attribute a huge chunk of this momentum to the fact that the RT.com Mods have been banning anyone with a modicum of intelligence, and these fans have been forced to find other outlest to express thier enjoyment of the series. Most of the people I know in this catagory love the original series, but they cannot stand anything that's been done in recent memory (Prelude, TSC, et al).

Quite simply put, since we cannot stand the crap HG produces, we do our own stuff, and do it better.

[Beltane70]

I'm almost expecting it to get to the point where people will be banned from Robotech.com just for being a member of Macross World.

[Seto Kaiba]

I'm almost expecting it to get to the point where people will be banned from Robotech.com just for being a member of Macross World.

Actually, according to MEMO1DOMINION, links to MacrossWorld are forbidden on Robotech.com... so presumably you already could get banned just for linking here.

[VFTF1]

Actually, according to MEMO1DOMINION, links to MacrossWorld are forbidden on Robotech.com.

Hi. I'm a Robotech Fan. I believe in Memo. Memo is always right. For proof, just go to MACROSSWORLD.COM where he posted a brilliant defense of his point of view in this thread: http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?...mp;#entry797065

So - I can't link that?

Because you know, Memo DID post here, and he did write his arguments for why he's right here.

Does that mean that on RT.com it's against the rules to post to a link of the Moderator presenting the reasons for why HG is right and good?

I'm confused.

Pete

[Beltane70]

Eh, I'm not too worried about being banned, even though it is kind of fun being able to witness the site as it continues its downward spiral.

[Seto Kaiba]

Does that mean that on RT.com it's against the rules to post to a link of the Moderator presenting the reasons for why HG is right and good?

Beats me... all I know is that MEMO told me, on no uncertain terms, that we're not allowed to post links to MacrossWorld over on the Robotech.com message boards. He didn't attach any qualifying statements, he just said it was verboten and went right back to spewing nonsense.

[Protoculture]

Do I actually cared that RT.com being a small internet fiefdom ruled by tyrannical selfish regime in the interest of good ole USA capitalism?

To think of it, I don't give a fart apart from posting & updating my RT fanfics once a while, since the entertainment value of RT.com has dropped pretty sharply there (eversince Seto was permabanned for good) ... not having my usual fixations in reading posts by ignorant RT.commers get whacked by knowledgable RT fans / Macross purists.

What more can you say about a CORPORATE site that being run on the base of a dying franchise? Its their turf, you ain't agreeing with them, you get the boot ... pretty plain & simple logic. Don't argue otherwise, cause all the complains sounded like a porno soundtrack to their bloody ears.

I can be both a Macross purist & Robotech afficianado without any residual hangups. Most people tend to do so, moreso the casual anime / animated series fans. As one matured, fixation remains that, nostalgic & wanting better things or simply moved on with real life.

I choose moving on with real life, once a while revisiting Macross & RT to get my fixations for the loved of both series, & enjoy better even bigger things like, well, Gundam ...

Nuff said. If one get permabanned from RT.com, there's still myriad RT fansites or even forums (insignificant in grand scheme of things) available or dropped by to MW by way of this thread to spew with all heart's content.

That's a fairly balanced deal to think of it .......

[Protoculture]

Beats me... all I know is that MEMO told me, on no uncertain terms, that we're not allowed to post links to MacrossWorld over on the Robotech.com message boards. He didn't attach any qualifying statements, he just said it was verboten and went right back to spewing nonsense.

Huh? Over the years, even before I get burnout on RT.com thingies, once a while I do posted direct links to MW without any harrassment by the TPTB.

Guess I did flew below the radar than you, Seto, coz you, well, a big RED MARK over there.

[Protoculture]

Beats me... all I know is that MEMO told me, on no uncertain terms, that we're not allowed to post links to MacrossWorld over on the Robotech.com message boards. He didn't attach any qualifying statements, he just said it was verboten and went right back to spewing nonsense.

Huh? Over the years, even before I get burnout on RT.com thingies, once a while I do posted direct links to MW without any harrassment by the TPTB.

Guess I did flew below the radar than you, Seto, coz you, well, a big RED MARK over there.

[VFTF1]

Beats me... all I know is that MEMO told me, on no uncertain terms, that we're not allowed to post links to MacrossWorld over on the Robotech.com message boards. He didn't attach any qualifying statements, he just said it was verboten and went right back to spewing nonsense.

Two problems here:

1) He TOLD you in private - or is this a public rule? Does it say, anywhere in the terms of use "No Links to Macross World" - kind of like here on MW in the rules it uses the word "Robotech" and explains how we can talk about Robotech and where we can't?

2) Would it not be a logical inference to make that since no links to MW are allowed on RT.com, then correspondingly MW and its' members are persona non grata? And since MEMO is a member of MW - then Memo should be banned from RT.com?

This is really tempting I think I'd like to convert to a Robotech Fanatical Fan Purist for one day and lobby RT.com to ban Memo.

Memo's crime?

Memo is a card carrying member of MW.com! Memo posted in a thread dedicated to "debating" the "issue" of how much rights HG has - when we know full well it has the rights to all of Robotech and can do whatever it wants - so "debating" it just means conceeding to the crazy pedophiles at Macrossworld.

In any event - if linking to MW is a bannable offence, then surely POSTING at MW should also be bannable?

What really needs to happen is HG needs to quickly require all RT.com members to install software on their computers that allows HG to monitor what they're doing on the internet. Any entries into MW.com or any downloading of Macross anime or watching it on Youtube or googling it and...BAN!

Pete

[Seto Kaiba]

1) He TOLD you in private - or is this a public rule? Does it say, anywhere in the terms of use "No Links to Macross World" - kind of like here on MW in the rules it uses the word "Robotech" and explains how we can talk about Robotech and where we can't?

He told me that in the middle of a public discussion thread... one of the earlier legal threads, actually. It doesn't actually appear in the Terms of Use, but it seems to be one of those unwritten rules that is nevertheless publicly enforced.

2) Would it not be a logical inference to make that since no links to MW are allowed on RT.com, then correspondingly MW and its' members are persona non grata? And since MEMO is a member of MW - then Memo should be banned from RT.com?

Given MEMO's recent behavior, I would say the answer to your question is yes, though I would rather see MEMO banned for his ridiculous abuses of power.

[Moly_Sigang]

I think the main reason why linking MW became a bannable offense in RT.com is because of threads like this. Over there, we only get to see one side of the story (HG has all the rights to SDF Macross), and opposing that creed gets you the banhammer. Here, we can freely discuss about it without resorting to banning people for having an opinion. And many times it has been proven here that HG has a limitation to their rights over Macross. MEMO doesn't want any of the RT fans reading this thread because it might make the RT fans question the validity of his claims about the rights issue.

[Einherjar]

Does anyone know other Macross-specific sites or forums that might have the same problem as here regarding rt.com?

EDIT: The surveillance problem.

Edited October 18, 2009 by Einherjar

[VFTF1]

MEMO doesn't want any of the RT fans reading this thread because it might make the RT fans question the validity of his claims about the rights issue.

I think in order for the rule to be effective, Memo needs to also make using google a bannable offense, because what if a Robotech fan googles Robotech and gets a link to this thread? It COULD happen!

The internet is a dangerous place. I think HG should perhaps just shut down RT.com altogether, because if the only way to access RT.com is to go through the internet, then the risk is that while logged onto the internet, Robotech fans MIGHT find information or websites with contrary opinions - and isn't THAT also a violation of the terms of use?

I mean - since HG has the right to ALL of Macross, then how can a website that makes this claim (RT.com) share the same eather-space with websites that make contrary claims? Somebody needst to send a C&D to ...well...to the Internet, really. To life on Earth itself.

We need to just ban the internet out right and HG can communicate with its' membership via direct snail mail. It can be like mail from a Congressman. One general letter written by a staffer with names from a mailing list punched in to give it that extra personal feel.

Dear _____,

Thank you for your continuted support of Robotech. As promised in our last letter - in this letter we shall now reveal the exact date when the upcoming LAM movie will be out. The date can be known to you if you are home at 3 o'clock, on Thursday the 13th of next Month to recieve it! We'll be mailing out the date in a special envelope to ONLY those fans who will be home at the designated time. It's a special delivery and if you don't sign for it - you won't know it. We know you don't want to miss out! You're probably the only person on your block who gets these super secret awesome communiques from HG anyways - now you can be the only one on the block to know the exact date when the LAM comes out!

This message will self-destruct in 10 seconds.

Yours,

HG

-----------

In the words of Galvatron:

"This is bad comedy!"

Pete

[Jasonc]

Huh? Over the years, even before I get burnout on RT.com thingies, once a while I do posted direct links to MW without any harrassment by the TPTB.

Guess I did flew below the radar than you, Seto, coz you, well, a big RED MARK over there.

Nah, it's nothing more than a double standard. It's never a problem until they are looking to ban you, or you are in their radar. Just chaulk up another mark on them.

[Keith]

I say we al go down to the HG booth during the next AX, hug the HG staff, and tell them "it's ok", that they don't need to pretend anymore, and that their fanbase will understand they have absolutely notihing to give them but regurgitated toys, cell phone games, and empty promises!

Then we'll all go out for pie!!

Edited October 18, 2009 by Keith

[Protoculture]

Nah, it's nothing more than a double standard. It's never a problem until they are looking to ban you, or you are in their radar. Just chaulk up another mark on them.

Ahh well, before even you get the boot, Jasonc, I kinda remember others like Darkwater, RTsurfer amongst others who contributed a whole lot more to RT fandom & even RT.com as compared to MEMO & his ignorant ilks. Atleast most hardcore RT fans actually do their research with OSM & knew RT origins as compared to half-arsed ignoramus RT masses that willingly lap up any BS sspewed by a chosen equally ignorant elite who didn't know any better.

Eversince the most influential & knowledgable RT members get booted out over the years either of disagreeing with TPTB or because they sounded too Macross-sey, that is the moment I lose interest in RT.com.