Robotech and HG License Debates

[Freiflug88]

And the more they get, the worse the character becomes. For example that Riddick guy.

True. I have even started to call it the "Gundam Seed Destiny effect" with several of my anime friends.

[Seto Kaiba]

Total non sequitur here for a moment...

I got drawn into a discussion about the current state of the Robotech franchise and how it's remembered on Robotech.com. The OP quickly turned out to be one of those dyed-in-the-wool fanatics who thinks that Robotech is a flawless classic beyond the criticism of mortal men that must be regarded as a megahit. He took it very poorly when I explained to him that 9/10ths of the world doesn't know what the hell Robotech is, and that the remaining tenth is split into fans, people who hate the show, and people straddling the fence between the other two groups and started attacking me for it. The dolt was basically labeling anyone who disagreed with his deluded belief that Robotech is a pillar of the American sci-fi genre as a troll and trying to hound them off the site. When a bunch of people reported him... it was ME who got threatened with a ban by the moderators (specifically, Maverick_LSC, a particularly loathsome little toady who interprets any criticism of Robotech, no matter how well-intentioned, as flame-bait).

Then, of course, McKeever comes along, while professing to actually listen to fan opinions, quotes my criticism, and says "this is why I don't listen to Robotech critics".

And these people wonder why the Robotech franchise is circling the drain? It's run by people who only listen to positive feedback, and do their best to quash criticism of any kind.

I wrote to Steve Yun about Maverick_LSC's behavior... I expect a VERY interesting and informative response... if he does what I think he'll do, I'll be posting a copy of his e-mail telling me that fans aren't allowed to criticize Robotech under any circumstances...

[Wanzerfan]

Total non sequitur here for a moment...

I got drawn into a discussion about the current state of the Robotech franchise and how it's remembered on Robotech.com. The OP quickly turned out to be one of those dyed-in-the-wool fanatics who thinks that Robotech is a flawless classic beyond the criticism of mortal men that must be regarded as a megahit. He took it very poorly when I explained to him that 9/10ths of the world doesn't know what the hell Robotech is, and that the remaining tenth is split into fans, people who hate the show, and people straddling the fence between the other two groups and started attacking me for it. The dolt was basically labeling anyone who disagreed with his deluded belief that Robotech is a pillar of the American sci-fi genre as a troll and trying to hound them off the site. When a bunch of people reported him... it was ME who got threatened with a ban by the moderators (specifically, Maverick_LSC, a particularly loathsome little toady who interprets any criticism of Robotech, no matter how well-intentioned, as flame-bait).

Then, of course, McKeever comes along, while professing to actually listen to fan opinions, quotes my criticism, and says "this is why I don't listen to Robotech critics".

And these people wonder why the Robotech franchise is circling the drain? It's run by people who only listen to positive feedback, and do their best to quash criticism of any kind.

I wrote to Steve Yun about Maverick_LSC's behavior... I expect a VERY interesting and informative response... if he does what I think he'll do, I'll be posting a copy of his e-mail telling me that fans aren't allowed to criticize Robotech under any circumstances...

Which is what led me to getting permabanned from the site.

[Einherjar]

And these people wonder why the Robotech franchise is circling the drain? It's run by people who only listen to positive feedback, and do their best to quash criticism of any kind.

I also read that and wrote about my thoughts on it on the previous page.

[taksraven]

Was the comic licensed by HG at the time? Yes.

Then it's not fanfiction. End of freaking story.

Expanded Universe.

Not canon but not fanfic either......

Taksraven

Edited July 9, 2009 by taksraven

[Jasonc]

Maverick LSC has some serious issues. Sanman can call people a troll, and that's not attacking? Ah, give it to the blowhards for making all our points so valid everytime. LOL, Seto, one would think you pooped on Sanman's childhood the way he's crying and throwing a damn hissy fit.

As for Kevin, let's get started:

KEVIN WROTE:

This is why I do not buy the argument of Robotech critics. To prove their argument that Harmony Gold is mishandling the franchise two 23 year old examples and one 10 year old example are used.

I can go to any franchise (some run by major studios) and do the same thing by pointing out 2 things that happened that happened 23 years ago and say “this francihse is being mismanaged”. I can show you things over the past 23 years from Fox, Paramount, Universal, Big West, Sony, Sunrise, Warner Brothers, Marvel where their francihses were mishandled. Let’s not go back in time lets look at today.

Your theory does of were scared from the failures of The Sentinels, Robotech: The Untold Story or Robotech 3000 does not really hold water.(I’d also point out that Robotech 3000 was given a theatrical and DVD release as well in 2007 ) However, we did learn from them…

I like how he leaves out the major important factor in all this... WB, Sony, Marvel, all them have multiple franchises that they handle. HG has the one, and it's one that they mismanage, not just 23 years ago, but starting from 23yrs ago. I like how he's taking a moderately successful sale of RTSC, and rationalizing Robotech as a whole, as a super successful, well run franchise.

KEVIN WROTE:

As for the Haydonites vs. Cylons well that is your opinion and you are entitled to it.

Yep, that' your opinion, along with about a few thousand other people. The only problem is that, it's a compliment to Robotech, which isn't the case. I don't think it was meant in that fashion.

KEVIN WROTE:

See Robotech has originality…we could have done the full reboot (everyone else is doing it to relaunch their franchises) for animated Robotech. However, that is the easy way out and if you want my opinion I think part of the reason behind TSC big success was that we embraced the original series on every level we could think of.

OK, if that was an attempt at being sarcastic, or trying to be a smartass, I think he just ate $h!t on that one. So, basically, Kevin, you're being original by being unoriginal? Somehow, I find this too damn funny. It was only somewhat successful because it was bought for nostalgia, don't get it twisted. Oh goodness, what's next...

KEVIN WROTE:

The Maia MPC was recalled since Toynami and we felt it was unacceptable. We were open and upfront about it - As for the cyclone poor quality both the Megahouse and the Toynami have received high marks for their craftsmanship...unless you were talking about the Matchbox cyclone from 23 years ago. The biggest complaint is the lack of availability of the cyclones (this is because they keep selling out).

Isn't the Toynami packaged small cyclone Megahouse's cyclone 100%? Just Toynami packaging? C'mon Kevin, stop trying to pad your arguments with half truths. Oh, and the "availability of the cyclones", it's an easy sellout when you only have a very limited number of them available. That doesn't necessarily make the toys ultra successful. And not to take more away from this argument Kevin has, (yes I do), the "Cyclone" is also a product of Beagle. People buy them cause they are made by people who actually care about the product they put out.

KEVIN WROTE:

Then why did TSC sell so well? Why did film festivals screen TSC to sold out audiences? Why do anime/SF/Comic Book conventions keep inviting us to their shows? Why was there TWO theatrical runs for TSC? Why do our toys and other merchandise keep selling out?

Why do anime/SF/Comic book cons keep inviting them? Answer: FACT, they don't invite them, Kevin sets up these cons by calling them and booking panels for the HG staff. And the reason why Kevin is so hardcore in calling every damn convention on the face of the planet is because before working for HG and making his $13/hr, he was one of those airport shuttle drivers. I'm sure his diligence in setting these up are to save his ass from going back to a job he probably didn't like. As for theatrical runs, hmmm, I wouldn't call it a theatrical run. A run would indicate that it was in theaters for a perios of time. RTSC was in a few theaters for one day only. If that's a run, what are you on? About the toys and merchandise, that's been explained so many times, read above.

KEVIN WROTE:

In the past 36 mothns HG has done and continues to do things that cost our rivals far more for a weaker result. Why is that?

They don't have rivals cause they're not really worth the time. If they are referring to Macross, Kevin gives absolutely no facts here, so this is also a matter of opinion on what their competitors are as well. Kinda a lost statement.

KEVIN WROTE:

First off we offer a free site, a site that does not charge its fans for them to use it. We do that to keep the website open to as many fans as possible. Yeah we could start charging for people to see that stuff on the site but that would drive more away then it would attract

WTF??? So, Steve isn't the "webmaster"??? I find it funny that he'd mention that, to give the impression that they are doing all the fans such a great service by providing a website for the fans. Whoa, lookout now! HG is giving you soooo damn much, aren't they the humanitarians of the year?

KEVIN WROTE:

We received repeated requests for Beta and Cyclone MPC’s we have fulfilled that demand. (If you don’t believe me please look on the front page of the webstie) As for enemy mecha…stay tuned.

OK, I'll stay tuned... As for the Beta, nothing was going to happen with that until a specific thread I started years ago got many fans together to voice that they wanted it. Tommy had told me back then that they probably weren't gonna do one because it'd cost upwards of $200, and the demand for such an item wasn't there. HG never had the intent to try to push for the Beta, it was the demand of fans put onto Toynami, but hey, that's HG taking credit for stuff they didn't do, and claiming it as their own.

Man, that was a lot of quoting stuff. They're probably scared $h!t1e$$ to have me back on the site and say the things they don't want others to know, or speak some reasonable facts to them, so I'll just do it there. I'm sure they read this section. Funny thing is, I'm still a fan of the series, not anything new of it, but of the 1985 through 87 airing.

[Einherjar]

Wait, did Kevin imply that if you had to pay to use rt.com the staff would actually put more care into updating the site? They're unwilling to give interested fans the chance to update the infopedia for free and for everyone's benefit, but may reconsider it if people started paying them on a regular basis to do it? This is supposed to be "The Official Headquarters of the Robotech Universe."

What's his position again?

Edited July 9, 2009 by Einherjar

[Keith]

That's why the few times a year I post there, I don't bother debating with them, I just ignore the crap, and talk about how awesome Macross is, problem solved.

http://www.robotech.com/community/forum/re...mp;pagenumber=3

Edited July 9, 2009 by Keith

[Roy Focker]

Oh glory day!!!!!

Everyone go to Hulu.com

You can watch the Greatest Story Ever Told for Free Online.

RTSC!

[chrisk]

Jason, and to everyone who has been screwed over by Robotech online, I dedicate this comic to you:

You can watch the Greatest Story Ever Told for Free Online.

Not Ten Commandments?

[Freiflug88]

Oh glory day!!!!!

Everyone go to Hulu.com

You can watch the Greatest Story Ever Told for Free Online.

RTSC!

What you talking about the 1965 classic "The Greatest Story Ever Told" isn't anywhere on Hulu.

Besides what does the story of Jesus on a Cross have to do with this Robotech and HG thread?

RTSC? What does that acronym stand for? Let me think here R T S C... "Robo Tech Suxs Coc" sounds about right. Funny thing is when I search for it on Hulu all I get nothing but the Discovery Channel's Tech show. Ah, well at least now I can watch Captain Harlock on Hulu, its a much better space opera then that Ripoff Tech or Robo Trash show that a lot of people have been talking about lately.

[RavenHawk]

Fanfiction is fiction NOT written by the original creators, no? And it shows characters and situations that the original creators may choose to ignore or change.

So they were paid by HG. So what? They were not original creators, and YOU probably know more about Robotech history than they did.

Ergo, it's fanfiction. End of freaking story.

No, that is not the definition of fanfiction that I've ever heard. By that logic, Batman Begins and The Dark Knight are fan fiction because they were not created by Bob Kane (just an immediate example that comes to mind, but we could do thousands of these).

[Freiflug88]

No, that is not the definition of fanfiction that I've ever heard. By that logic, Batman Begins and The Dark Knight are fan fiction because they were not created by Bob Kane (just an immediate example that comes to mind, but we could do thousands of these).

Rather then endlessly debate on the definition of fan fiction lets look at an established defintion. According to wiki fanfiction "is a broadly-defined term used to describe stories about characters or settings written by fans of the original work, rather than by the original creator. Works of fan fiction are rarely commissioned or authorized by the original work's owner, creator, or publisher; also, they are almost never professionally published. Fan fiction, therefore, is defined by being both related to its subject's canonical fictional universe and simultaneously existing outside the canon of that universe. Most fan fiction writers assume that their work is read primarily by other fans, and therefore tend to presume that their readers have knowledge of the canon universe (created by a professional writer) in which their works are based."

It seems to me the critera defining fan fiction are:

1) Made without authorization and/or commission by the original owner, creator or publisher.

2) Work is outside of an established canonical fictional universe.

Were the Robotech comics done with authorization from Harmony Gold? Check. Are the Robotech comics considered canon in the Robotech comic storyline? Check. Looks to me like the comics are not fan fiction, just horribly written comics.

[peter]

Wow, it's amazing that this thread is still around. Figured HG would eventually die off, but there seems to be still a strong following. The last time I posted on this subject was way before this thread got started, back on the old forums. There were some nasty, nasty exchanges. I didn't have anything nice to say about HG back then, and I still don't today.

I watched a scrap of Robotech on youtube the other day and the voices made me feel very, very cold. I tried to me open-minded about it, now that I'm a little older, but it didn't work. Just like Mac 7 and natto, no matter how many times I try it, it just doesn't work for me.

[Einherjar]

Were the Robotech comics done with authorization from Harmony Gold? Check. Are the Robotech comics considered canon in the Robotech comic storyline? Check. Looks to me like the comics are not fan fiction, just horribly written comics.

Good enough for me. It wouldn't be a problem if Robotech started off as a comic book.

[TheLoneWolf]

Were the Robotech comics done with authorization from Harmony Gold? Check. Are the Robotech comics considered canon in the Robotech comic storyline? Check. Looks to me like the comics are not fan fiction, just horribly written comics.

I believe that the Robotech comics/novels are akin to what the Timothy Zahn Star Wars novels are: official non-canon stories. In other words, an alternate universe. I

've always believed that the only Robotech canon is the animation (excluding The Sentinels and The Untold Story).

[Keith]

Oh glory day!!!!!

Everyone go to Hulu.com

You can watch the Greatest Story Ever Told for Free Online.

RTSC!

Hulu nuthin', you go out and buy that bluray right now!

[Einherjar]

Oh glory day!!!!!

Everyone go to Hulu.com

You can watch the Greatest Story Ever Told for Free Online.

RTSC!

Make up your mind HG, do you want me to buy an overpriced DVD or Blu Ray, a micro transaction for every episode at various venues, or watch it for free at your expense? You've over saturated the market already!

Edited July 9, 2009 by Einherjar

[Jasonc]

I was reading more on that rt.com thread, that guy has got some serious issues to deal with in his personal life. Somehow, somewhere in that thread, all the Macross purists of the world are in his thread, attacking his childhood, making outlandish claims, and bashing Robotech to no end. So much so, that now he's resorted to name calling and probably whining to the mods and staff. GM Murdock, whom I know, is making some good points, and now he's a Macross purist??? Hahaha!!! I also like the Ben_G guy's post...A Robotech fan being embarrased by other Robotech fans. Classic.

This thread is a great example of how the website is supposed to think. If you don't agree with all of Robotech and their decisions, then you are completely against them. Oh, poor HG, long are the days when they actually had a large number of intellectual postings and members.

[Einherjar]

Ah, so it's a Doug Bendo 2.0, except very defensive about the franchise but with the same issues and rage. That is, if it isn't him just using another screen name and being a suck up for kicks. Robotech must have made a lot of them after all these years.

Edited July 9, 2009 by Einherjar

[Freiflug88]

Hulu nuthin', you go out and buy that bluray right now!

And support HG financially I don't think so. If your really dying to watch Robotech on bluray rent it and send your money to blockbuster or netflix not HG.

Oh, poor HG, long are the days when they actually had a large number of intellectual postings and members.

Dumb shows make dumb fans.

[taksraven]

Another thought occurred to me. If (somehow), WB does successfully get a RT film up and running and in production, what are the chances that another studio with its own transforming-robot franchise might see red and call in the lawyers? I think its possible with so much money involved.

Taksraven

[Freiflug88]

Another thought occurred to me. If (somehow), WB does successfully get a RT film up and running and in production, what are the chances that another studio with its own transforming-robot franchise might see red and call in the lawyers? I think its possible with so much money involved.

Do mean Big West with Macross or Paramont with Transformers? Honestly if either studio had a legal issue with WB entering the transforming-robot franchise with Robotech they would have hired the lawyers years ago when the Robotech LAM was confirmed and not until production starts. Besides Hollywood and anime studios copy successful genres all the time and you can't sue someone over just genre ideas like transforming robots.

[Seto Kaiba]

Maverick LSC has some serious issues. Sanman can call people a troll, and that's not attacking? Ah, give it to the blowhards for making all our points so valid everytime. LOL, Seto, one would think you pooped on Sanman's childhood the way he's crying and throwing a damn hissy fit.

It gets better... just like the last time he sent me a bullshit threat, I sent a scathing e-mail to Maverick_LSC, illustrating exactly why his accusations that I was baiting, trolling, etc. were completely and utterly unjustified, and then told him flat-out that the only rational explanation I can see for his behavior is that he's abusing his mod position to pursue a personal beef against me, and that I would be appealing to Steve for a review of the situation and the revocation of his moderator status. I sent a carbon copy of the message to Steve, and told him as much in the e-mail.

What I got back from Maverick_LSC was:

I have contacted the admins, and I've forwarded the the letter that you sent me. It constitutes a form of harassment, a decision will be pending.

Maverick_LSC

Robotech.com moderator

He forwarded them the letter they already got when I sent them a carbon copy, and is filing a harassment complaint against me because I called him out on his obvious bullshit threat. I actually busted out laughing when I read that... it's just SOOOOOO illustrative of why the whole Robotech franchise is going to hell.

Wait, did Kevin imply that if you had to pay to use rt.com the staff would actually put more care into updating the site? They're unwilling to give interested fans the chance to update the infopedia for free and for everyone's benefit, but may reconsider it if people started paying them on a regular basis to do it? This is supposed to be "The Official Headquarters of the Robotech Universe."

What's his position again?

Yeah, it's complete and utter bull... at some point or another ALL of the site's authorities on the various sagas and their Japanese origins have offered to update the Infopedia for free... myself included... but they always ignored the offers. Now we're getting some snide line about how they'd pay more attention to the site if only we paid them to do so.

McKeever's their marketing director... and the worst thing to happen to the Robotech franchise since its creation (its creation probably being the worst thing).

Jason, and to everyone who has been screwed over by Robotech online, I dedicate this comic to you:

SAVED FOR GREAT JUSTICE.

Sir, I wish I could shake your hand... that was epic.

(Show it to McKeever, it proves you're a better writer than any of the asshats who wrote Shadow Chronicles)

I was reading more on that rt.com thread, that guy has got some serious issues to deal with in his personal life. Somehow, somewhere in that thread, all the Macross purists of the world are in his thread, attacking his childhood, making outlandish claims, and bashing Robotech to no end. So much so, that now he's resorted to name calling and probably whining to the mods and staff. GM Murdock, whom I know, is making some good points, and now he's a Macross purist??? Hahaha!!! I also like the Ben_G guy's post...A Robotech fan being embarrased by other Robotech fans. Classic.

Isn't it? I've gotten all kinds of e-mails of support and agreement about that thread, though many of the people are afraid to publically post their support for me and my position because they don't want to be banned out of spite by Kevin McKeever or Maverick_LSC.

This is truly a franchise that abuses its fans to no end. They're like an abused spouse that's too afraid to leave. Why has Robotech survived this long if they're dead-set on treating their fans so poorly?

This thread is a great example of how the website is supposed to think. If you don't agree with all of Robotech and their decisions, then you are completely against them. Oh, poor HG, long are the days when they actually had a large number of intellectual postings and members.

Those days are gone, I'm afraid... never to return. With McKeever at the helm, there is no such thing as freedom of speech on those boards. Discourse on politics, religion, or anything that isn't PG-13 safe is banned. Criticism of Robotech for any reason, even constructive criticism, is apparently also banned. I look at McKeever and Maverick_LSC's behavior over there, and they consistently remind me of two people... Stalin, and Senator McCarthy respectively. We've got one joker who makes people who disagree with him disappear, and another who's content to invent enemies where none can be found... triumphantly marching off to battle against the fans, and returning with the scalp of a "Macross purist", a fan who dared to criticize the Shadow Chronicles.

[chrisk]

Make up your mind HG, do you want me to buy an overpriced DVD or Blu Ray, a micro transaction for every episode at various venues, or watch it for free at your expense? You've over saturated the market already!

Here are some "choice excerpts" of some reviews I found on Hulu.com:

I love this new addition to the huge world of macross. it takes one of my favorite characters from my favorite robotech series. (the one with the bikes) and continues the story while linking it to the original series and robotech masters.

sounds eerily like the superman theme/intro :[

i only watched about a third of the way through, and thats all i could handle.

what happen to Optimus Prime?

did anyone else notice that around 24:43, the enemies look like a birth control pill holder sending out little pills?

I say... OH GOD, IT'S 2006 AGAIN!!!

...the whole Robotech franchise is going to hell... Now we're getting some snide line about how they'd pay more attention to the site if only we paid them to do so... McKeever's their marketing director... and the worst thing to happen to the Robotech franchise since its creation (its creation probably being the worst thing).

Now, now... Lets put things in perspective, Seto. The current Robotech fandom online is going to hell. If they wanna make BS excuses for not updating their website because nobody's paying them to do it, who do you think will suffer in the long-term?

Robotech fans or Tommy, Steve and Kevin?

They'll get what's coming to them.

Sir, I wish I could shake your hand... that was epic.

Dude, if you start getting too stressed about this Robotech/Macross business, just sit back... and laugh at Kevin McKeever. Not with. At. It seems quite clear we're dealing with a fairly insecure person here.

I'm a little concerned though if the man really behave this way...

This is truly a franchise that abuses its fans to no end. They're like an abused spouse that's too afraid to leave. Why has Robotech survived this long if they're dead-set on treating their fans so poorly?

If you have the stomach for it, read this long-running Robotech thread. It encapsulates everything that's wrong with your description of contemporary online Robotech fans.

http://www.robotech.com/community/forum/re...&forumid=13

Edited July 10, 2009 by chrisk

[taksraven]

Do mean Big West with Macross or Paramont with Transformers? Honestly if either studio had a legal issue with WB entering the transforming-robot franchise with Robotech they would have hired the lawyers years ago when the Robotech LAM was confirmed and not until production starts. Besides Hollywood and anime studios copy successful genres all the time and you can't sue someone over just genre ideas like transforming robots.

I mean Paramount with Transformers. You would think that if they were going to have some sort of legal issues with this franchise that they would start legal action as soon as the LAM was announced, but I really doubt that a development hell project like this is really going to be on their radar yet. I think that the legal fight between Fox and WB over the Watchmen film was a good example of how legal action against a project can occur at any stage of its production. (In this case, the legal action did not start until after the completion of filming, very late in the game)

Taksraven

[VF5SS]

If you have the stomach for it, read this long-running Robotech thread. It encapsulates everything that's wrong with your description of contemporary online Robotech fans.

http://www.robotech.com/community/forum/re...&forumid=13

Oh those Robotech Masters fans. Always willing to turn little things into grand space adventures. And this is coming from someone who liked Southern Cross. Seriously, that bald guy was a nobody whose plot went nowhere fast. I can't even remember his contribution to the show.

[taksraven]

Oh those Robotech Masters fans. Always willing to turn little things into grand space adventures. And this is coming from someone who liked Southern Cross. Seriously, that bald guy was a nobody whose plot went nowhere fast. I can't even remember his contribution to the show.

His character was the stupidest one in the whole show. His job was to say the wrong thing, to do the wrong thing, and to get the wrong people into trouble. Stupid stuff.... (I don't know if the original SC was more sympathetic to the character.....)

Taksraven

[VF5SS]

No he was pretty much just an apeface. Seifriet is way better than Zor Prime. His character actually makes sense for one thing.

[Seto Kaiba]

Here are some "choice excerpts" of some reviews I found on Hulu.com:

I love this new addition to the huge world of macross.

i only watched about a third of the way through, and thats all i could handle.

what happen to Optimus Prime?

did anyone else notice that around 24:43, the enemies look like a birth control pill holder sending out little pills?

Wow... just wow... anything I say will just detract from the fact that this just goes to show how right I was. Robotech will always be remembered as a penny-ante crapfest because it never produced anything worth watching after the first series... it'll never escape association with Macross (specifically, as something riding Macross's coattails) either at this rate.

Now, now... Lets put things in perspective, Seto. The current Robotech fandom online is going to hell. If they wanna make BS excuses for not updating their website because nobody's paying them to do it, who do you think will suffer in the long-term?

Robotech fans or Tommy, Steve and Kevin?

They'll get what's coming to them.

Nah, the current Robotech fandom in general is going to hell. There are very few decent people left among the fans... because the few decent people (like you, me, Wanzerfan, Jasonc, etc.) get hounded off the site for our lack of blind faith in the franchise. They've been whittling the fanbase down so that only the blindly faithful remain, the idiots who will buy the same Beta fighter four times just because it's painted a different color... the idiots who bought the original series on DVD every time a new version came out... the idiots who still hope that Harmony Gold will revisit and finish Robotech II: the Sentinels and Robotech 3000... there are, sadly, enough to them (for now) to keep the feeble mess that is Robotech chugging well into the foreseeable future.

Whether McKeever will ever get his comeuppance? Well, it won't happen on RT.com... not so long as he has admin privileges there. Maybe he'll get too big for his britches and get axed like Tom Bateman did, or he'll become head of RT and run it into the ground for us. It might take a while, but I'm a patient man. I can wait.

Dude, if you start getting too stressed about this Robotech/Macross business, just sit back... and laugh at Kevin McKeever. Not with. At. It seems quite clear we're dealing with a fairly insecure person here.

I do... every time he posts.

Frankly, it's a mystery to me why Harmony Gold even hired him. After seeing how he handles panel discussions at conventions, how he behaves on message boards, and reading his blog, I wouldn't give him the time of day even if his resume was printed on solid gold ingots. He's an ideal example of the very worst aspects of Robotech fandom... a frothy-mouthed fanatic who does his damnedest to discredit or drive off anyone who doesn't think Robotech is a flawless masterpiece beyond the critique of mortal men.

I'm not privy to internal Harmony Gold affairs at all, but just based on what I've seen I don't think much of his abilities as a marketing director either. As any cynical businessman will tell you, marketing is the use of fraud and deception to sell trash to idiots. A key part of being a good marketer is knowing just enough to come up with a believable lie. Not only is McKeever's hype virtually transparent, but he actually seems to believe his own absurd claims that Robotech is successful, popular, and a big seller. He actually thinks that getting it into a nosebleed timeslot (7am saturday) on a Canada-only Sci-Fi network ripoff and getting the movie onto Hulu are huge achievements. It's never a good sign when a marketing department starts to buy into its own hype... that's what got GM where it is now.

If you have the stomach for it, read this long-running Robotech thread. It encapsulates everything that's wrong with your description of contemporary online Robotech fans.

http://www.robotech.com/community/forum/re...&forumid=13

In the interest of not ruining my expensive new monitor and keyboard with projectile vomit, I think I'll pass on re-reading that thread.

Oh those Robotech Masters fans. Always willing to turn little things into grand space adventures. And this is coming from someone who liked Southern Cross. Seriously, that bald guy was a nobody whose plot went nowhere fast. I can't even remember his contribution to the show.

It gets better... that group's stated intent is to "correct" people who think that Leonard (orig. name Claude Leon on SDC: SC) is a big, evil tosser or a bad commander. They pop up in droves when someone badmouths him. They'd probably poo out their kidneys if they saw that the Wildstorm comics depict both Leonard and RTSC villain Edwards as Anti-UN agents working to bring the United Earth Gov't down from within.

Edited July 10, 2009 by Seto Kaiba

[Einherjar]

Wow... just wow... anything I say will just detract from the fact that this just goes to show how right I was. Robotech will always be remembered as a penny-ante crapfest because it never produced anything worth watching after the first series... it'll never escape association with Macross (specifically, as something riding Macross's coattails) either at this rate.

It also works the other way around. Macross will never escape association to Robotech because of how HG was able to spread it out to various parts of the world before the original became available and because the target audience was impressionable kids at the time. They did their job well, and from the looks of it they still have the legal advantage of saturating every medium with their version repeatedly.

EDIT: Sometimes it's also just an annoyance to everyone in general to see the same 90 episodes, yeah, you heard me right, available somewhere else.

Edited July 10, 2009 by Einherjar

[VF5SS]

Don't you mean the original 85 episodes? The holy book itself.

[Einherjar]

It represents the entire legacy they're trying to justify. There are people who find something redeeming with The Untold Story even if is to spite DYRL. There's still a following to continue The Sentinels in animated form especially after what happened with the novels. They did combine the first three episodes into one feature, right? And if people want to believe Shadow Chronicles is a pilot for a new series, let it be the very long and very expensive latest episode for Robotech too.

EDIT: If we're talking only original stuff, then it's just 4 episodes; the three Sentinels and Shadow Chronicles.

Edited July 10, 2009 by Einherjar

[Freiflug88]

I mean Paramount with Transformers. You would think that if they were going to have some sort of legal issues with this franchise that they would start legal action as soon as the LAM was announced, but I really doubt that a development hell project like this is really going to be on their radar yet. I think that the legal fight between Fox and WB over the Watchmen film was a good example of how legal action against a project can occur at any stage of its production. (In this case, the legal action did not start until after the completion of filming, very late in the game)

The Watchmen legal fight started after they finished filming because after Fox filed a lawsuit Zack Snyder rushed the movie's production so that they would be done filming Watchmen before WB had to actually go before a court, remember it can take years to actually schedule a trial. As for development hell projects that is the best time to try and stop them by threatening legal action. Watchmen of course didn't really much of a development hell under Zach Snyder though because the script was literally lifted from the comic.

While I am sure Paramount wouldn't like the box office competition if Transformers 3 and Robotech are released around the same time there is nothing they can do to stop WB from making a transforming robot movie. I am curious though if WB will use the same software that was developed to animate the bayformers. From what I heard it took 350 engineers from George Lucas's Industrial Light and Magic almost a year to program the graphics software used to animate the complex transformations with a simple interface. I am not sure if the rights to the software are entirely under ILM because they made the software while under commission for the production of Transformers. I would think that Paramount and/or ILM would be more then happy to charge WB for the use of the transformer software though as there isn't a huge market for multi-million dollar graphic software that's programed only for animating transforming robots.

No he was pretty much just an apeface. Seifriet is way better than Zor Prime. His character actually makes sense for one thing.

The bald apeface was General Leon in Sourthern Cross and Leonard in Robotech. Seifriet/Zor Prime was the tall guy with the long purple hair.

Oh those Robotech Masters fans. Always willing to turn little things into grand space adventures. And this is coming from someone who liked Southern Cross. Seriously, that bald guy was a nobody whose plot went nowhere fast. I can't even remember his contribution to the show.

His character was the stupidest one in the whole show. His job was to say the wrong thing, to do the wrong thing, and to get the wrong people into trouble. Stupid stuff.... (I don't know if the original SC was more sympathetic to the character.....)

Personally I always saw Leon (the bald guy) as the guy in charge who felt like he was always dealt the toughest choices in a losing war against the overwhelming Zor, but I will agree he gets little sympathy for being a hardass commander who refuses to follow Emerson's ideas for peaceful negotiations with the enemy. The original SC was alot more sympahtetic to the charater as the motives behind his "stupid" actions made much more sense in Southern Cross then they did in Robotech. For instance in Robotech when the 15th Squad capture a wounded bioroid pilot they discover its an alien and Emerson orders it to be incinerated with no need for an autospy because its war and all the aliens must be killed. In Southern Cross the pilot is no alien, but a human civilian that was kidnapped from Liberte (RT's Space Station Liberty) and brainwashed into a bioroid pilot like Seifreit/Zor Prime. After all attempts to treat the brainwashed man fail and he dies General Leon order his body to be incinerated and that any evidence that the pilot was human destroyed and that no word of the truth gets out because the soldiers would hesitate to fire knowingly on brainwashed people.

[taksraven]

Personally I always saw Leon (the bald guy) as the guy in charge who felt like he was always dealt the toughest choices in a losing war against the overwhelming Zor, but I will agree he gets little sympathy for being a hardass commander who refuses to follow Emerson's ideas for peaceful negotiations with the enemy. The original SC was alot more sympahtetic to the charater as the motives behind his "stupid" actions made much more sense in Southern Cross then they did in Robotech. For instance in Robotech when the 15th Squad capture a wounded bioroid pilot they discover its an alien and Emerson orders it to be incinerated with no need for an autospy because its war and all the aliens must be killed. In Southern Cross the pilot is no alien, but a human civilian that was kidnapped from Liberte (RT's Space Station Liberty) and brainwashed into a bioroid pilot like Seifreit/Zor Prime. After all attempts to treat the brainwashed man fail and he dies General Leon order his body to be incinerated and that any evidence that the pilot was human destroyed and that no word of the truth gets out because the soldiers would hesitate to fire knowingly on brainwashed people.

Thanks for that info, much appreciated....

Taksraven