Keith Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Japan is also a hell of alot more "lax" when it comes to homages/parodies, & "borrowing" than we are, in a good way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freiflug88 Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 (edited) Japan is also a hell of alot more "lax" when it comes to homages/parodies, & "borrowing" than we are, in a good way. Its all thanks to their Dōjinshi culture that was abe to bloom because their isn't nearly as many lawyers in Japan as there are here in the US. We will have to wait and see just how "lax" Big West will be with any Macross homages in the RLAM. I wonder though if WB and HG have considered avoiding distrubting the RLAM to Japan in order to allow a more few risks in making the RLAM closer to the source material. I figure if the RLAM is never brought to Japan then it will never really compete with Macross and there will be more red tape for Big West to deal with in order to bring HG and WB before a Japanese or American court so Big West would be more likely to allow the small stuff to slide. Plus I doubt the movie market in Japan would be worth it anyways especially with a movie that would not resemble their popular Macross at all. Edited June 30, 2009 by Freiflug88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedWolf Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 I'm getting migraine from all this licensing issue. Why can't they all just get along and become one bad-ass unit. Thus, best for goods in the market. And the movie, if that ever follow through? It's not democracy at work here, it's capitalism. More on Intellectual Property Rights. HG is infringing on BW's IP rights. If stealing is wrong then stealing and claiming you own it is even more wrong. I just wish that BW has the same drive as Tsuburaya, when Tsuburaya sued Chaiyo to the last penny for their fraudulent claim on Ultraman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einherjar Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Too bad the U.S. is one of the only countries that doesn't clamp down on such issues. HG is free to keep the now limited status quo while BW is free to go pay the expenses and trudge through the bureaucracy of the law to take them to court if it's worth it. Then there are loopholes lawyers would love to exploit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisk Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 (edited) Yehey! They finally announced when the new Robotech panel is going to be on Anime Expo 2009! Which oddly enough, sounds like the same panel a year ago... and the year before that... ROBOTECH: PAST, PRESENT and FUTURE – Saturday at 2pm in Live Programming 3 Tommy Yune, director of Robotech: The Shadow Chronicles, and the crew of Harmony Gold cover the history of the animated series that introduced a generation to anime, and discuss upcoming new releases in the wake of the announcement of the live action feature film. I'm expecting one of you Macross fans to attend this gig... don't hold out on us on what "new releases" are coming out in the "wake of the LAM"! I'm getting migraine from all this licensing issue. Why can't they all just get along and become one bad-ass unit. Thus, best for goods in the market. And the movie, if that ever follow through? I'm all for a Robotech "reboot" or "revival", as long as it doesn't involve Shadows anything. We can also leave out the myriad of Robotech fanboys who proclaim Robotech is superior to Macross. Edited July 1, 2009 by chrisk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azrael Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 HG is infringing on BW's IP rights. If stealing is wrong then stealing and claiming you own it is even more wrong. HG, has so far and unfortunately, not done anything wrong. The license they got from Tatsunoko grants them the right to reproduce images and merchandise seen in the animation. Even if BW owns the IP rights to the character and mecha lineart, BW effectively gave Tatsunoko the rights to use those images when they help make SDFM. And Tatsunoko passed those permissions to HG. BW can use and abuse those drawings however and whenever they want. They own those drawings. Tatsunoko can only use those images to sell related merchandise. They can't create anything new and why would they. HG has been doing the same. As I've said, it won't take much to just completely redesign the VF-1, SDF-1, and etc. for the LAM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einherjar Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 I'm expecting one of you Macross fans to attend this gig... don't hold out on us on what "new releases" are coming out in the "wake of the LAM"! Why waste an hour or two on a repeat performance? It's the hardcore fans that really need such vindication, and they'll probably be satisfied with anything. Let them have that one day of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freiflug88 Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 HG, has so far and unfortunately, not done anything wrong. Don't forget that HG did do wrong with Robotech Battlecry and a number of Macross Saga comics in the pasts, but your right in that they haven't really been doing anything illegal wrong lately that would warrant legal action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarrinG Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 I have it! WB will release it worldwide as Robotech and BW can re-dub and rip its script & essence apart and make it the original Macross storyline for the Japan market. That way things will be even and we can move on . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 I have it! WB will release it worldwide as Robotech and BW can re-dub and rip its script & essence apart and make it the original Macross storyline for the Japan market. That way things will be even and we can move on . . . You mean like how HG tried to pretend Tatsunoko was interested in turning Shadow Chronicles into a Mospeada sequal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonc Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 You mean like how HG tried to pretend Tatsunoko was interested in turning Shadow Chronicles into a Mospeada sequal? They were, at one point, interested in having Tatsunoko do their Shadow Rising, meeting with the Mospeada creators and all. They ditched them when they were getting ideas of how much production and all that's associated with it would cost. Tatsunoko was a bit pricey (and probably rightly so), so HG decided to go with the Korean studio. I think HG was more interested in Tats doing it, then Tats being interested. I wonder if it would've turned out a slightly better movie aesthetically for RTSC. Still very skeptical on the movie. If the new writer is in fact, another person on board to tweak, or rewrite completely, the production is gonna get pushed back even further. I'm thinking if the movie does get done, it may be like a side story, not based off of any of the original characters, and will have different mecha, aliens will look different, and so on. If all that was too occur, would it still feel like Robotech/Macross? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einherjar Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 (edited) If it is just a side story, can they make it with enough emotional baggage to keep fans interested and help everyone else understand what's going on or care? Maybe that's why they got this new writer, to give the script some sort of heart. They've treated this as a second or third coming for Robotech, why reduce it to a side story? Edited July 1, 2009 by Einherjar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freiflug88 Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 (edited) I have it! WB will release it worldwide as Robotech and BW can re-dub and rip its script & essence apart and make it the original Macross storyline for the Japan market. That way things will be even and we can move on . . . I heard that rumor way back when the RLAM was first announced. I quess there is some truth to the rumor in that a likely cast for the Japanese dub of the RLAM would be the the Macross VAs who are still in the VA busness, but I doubt it will be a literal re-edit of Robotech into Macross. They were, at one point, interested in having Tatsunoko do their Shadow Rising, meeting with the Mospeada creators and all. They ditched them when they were getting ideas of how much production and all that's associated with it would cost. Tatsunoko was a bit pricey (and probably rightly so), so HG decided to go with the Korean studio. I think HG was more interested in Tats doing it, then Tats being interested. I wonder if it would've turned out a slightly better movie aesthetically for RTSC. I remember hearing that HG chose the Korean in-between animators to save a lot of money after shopping around. It obvious why they would want to deal with Tatsunko, but I wonder if they considered approaching Big West to commission them to animate Admiral Hunter and the SDF-3 with Macross Zero visuals? I think that going with a big studio like Tatsunoko or Big West over the Koreans wouldn't have changed much aesthectically except maybe better cell shaded 3D with Tommy Yune still at the helm as any studio would have just been commissioned to draw Yune's streamlined charater designs and follow his directing in the end. Still very skeptical on the movie. If the new writer is in fact, another person on board to tweak, or rewrite completely, the production is gonna get pushed back even further. I'm thinking if the movie does get done, it may be like a side story, not based off of any of the original characters, and will have different mecha, aliens will look different, and so on. If all that was too occur, would it still feel like Robotech/Macross? What made me skeptical was when I heard Tommy Yune start to talk about how the Robotech universerse was so big and great that it easy to create side charaters like Jack Archer and show Robotech from other viewpoints besides Rick Hunter. To me it sounded like he was trying to indirectly say don't be surprised or disappointed if and when the RLAM doesn't focus on the familiar Macross saga characters. Despite the inevitable redesigns I have no doubt it will be the different story, charaters, and presentation if anything that will prevent the RLAM from feeling like Robotech/Macross. Just compare the two Battle Star Galacticas. Despite similar visual designs, same character names, and main plot they still felt like two very different shows. Edited July 2, 2009 by Freiflug88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einherjar Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 (edited) Despite the inevitable redesigns I have no doubt it will be the different story, charaters, and presentation if anything that will prevent the RLAM from feeling like Robotech/Macross. Just compare the two Battle Star Galacticas. Despite similar visual designs, same character names, and main plot they still felt like two very different shows. For the BSG remake they had the luxury of being able to take everything in a different direction with some limitations as they choose. They got the blessing of the original creator and crew to do that. For the LAMR and future animated Robotech projects, they might be forced to work with a lot of restrictions to make them a lawyer friendly experience among other things. For comparison, the closest thing they got to a "creator" is Carl Macek and Tommy Yune, so extreme liberties from the original source, or the real original source(s), are a given. Edited July 2, 2009 by Einherjar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Pretty sure GI Joe will kill any and all probability of the Robotech movie happening anyway. Maybe we should all get together & do one with toys & bad costumes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freiflug88 Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 (edited) For the BSG remake they had the luxury of being able to take everything in a different direction with some limitations as they choose. They got the blessing of the original creator and crew to do that. For the LAMR and future animated Robotech projects, they might be forced to work with a lot of restrictions to make them a lawyer friendly experience among other things. For comparison, the closest thing they got to a "creator" is Carl Macek and Tommy Yune, so extreme liberties from the original source, or the real original source(s), are a given. True, my point though was that it takes more then just visuals to change the feel of a series or movie. Like many others, I used to believe that Robotech was all one big show because all the sagas had a similar feeling thanks to the same VAs, music, narration, witty jokes, etc. Pretty sure GI Joe will kill any and all probability of the Robotech movie happening anyway. Maybe we should all get together & do one with toys & bad costumes... I have a similar idea of creating a little fan movie. My plan though is just to extract the 3d models from Robotech Battle Cry or the Macross PS2 game if I can get my hands on it and import them to 3ds max for the actual mecha. I figure I will show the movie only among friends unless I am able to get permission from BW for the mecha designs and the video game studio who did the actual modeling to show it in an amateur film festival or something. Edited July 2, 2009 by Freiflug88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einherjar Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Pretty sure GI Joe will kill any and all probability of the Robotech movie happening anyway. Maybe we should all get together & do one with toys & bad costumes... Have you seen the yet? How about Robotech Genesis and all the other fan projects supposedly in progress? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VF5SS Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Robotech Genesis seems dead in the water and a bunch of cosplayers with a digicam and a youtube account isn't that impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taksraven Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Robotech Genesis seems dead in the water and a bunch of cosplayers with a digicam and a youtube account isn't that impressive. Such a shame about Genesis, esp. since it looked like it was going to be so awful. Taksraven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anime52k8 Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Such a shame about Genesis, esp. since it looked like it was going to be so awful. Taksraven does kind of suck, their hasn't been any new robotech material to laugh at in a long while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einherjar Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 This is fine in it's own way, I guess. One thing though, where's the mecha? http://www.freewebs.com/theatlantechuniverse/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanzerfan Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 Well, it seems that Carl Macek has the rights to release the original Macross series complete with the original Japanese voicetrack. I saw a couple of the DVDs that ADV released at a used game store located near FM 529 and Texas State Hwy. 6 (not gamestop). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einherjar Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 (edited) Well, it seems that Carl Macek has the rights to release the original Macross series complete with the original Japanese voicetrack. I saw a couple of the DVDs that ADV released at a used game store located near FM 529 and Texas State Hwy. 6 (not gamestop). If those DVDs were the individual volumes of the show, those were made years ago. Carl Macek probably had nothing to do with them, only ADV. They've since been repackaged into a thinpack collection of the ADV produced Macross series, in addition to a 2 for 1 Mospeada and Southern cross combo and a jumbo block of Robotech (minus Shadow Chronicles). And did anyone know Prelude to the Shadow Chronicles is a comic no one gives a crap about? Edited July 3, 2009 by Einherjar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 And did anyone know Prelude to the Shadow Chronicles is a comic no one gives a crap about? Funny review. Almost makes me wish I'd read the comic so that I knew what they were talking about, but it doesn't seem like it's worth it. Inicdentally, when "Shadow Chronicles" came out, I remember Captain JLS really pushing for a trade paperback of "Prelude," because it was going for astronomical amounts on Ebay. I saw it there a couple of months ago, and the whole set could be had for less than ten bucks. Seems like DC knew what they were doing in not issuing a collection... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kronnang Dunn Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 (edited) Well, it seems that Carl Macek has the rights to release the original Macross series complete with the original Japanese voicetrack. AFAIK Harmony Gold/Tatsunoko have rights over the first Macross series outside Japan (that's why they made a deal with ADV films to release the original series English Dub with Mari Ijima in 2006). Inside Japan Big West/Studio Nue own the first series... That's why the Robotech movie is going to be difficult to make... You see... Japan is one of the biggest film markets in the world. I don't think WB will risk the opportunity of releasing the movie there... That's why I believe the movie producers will have to make lots of changes to the mecha and character designs as well as the original plot... Edited July 3, 2009 by Kronnang Dunn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radd Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 I suspect that they'll have to make changes to the mecha and character designs because they may not actually have those rights, in or out of Japan. From what I've read it appears HG/Tatsunoko have distribution and merchandising rights outside of Japan, but Big West owns the designs flat out. They also do not appear to have any sort of rights to create sequels or derivatives, so expect substantial changes to the story details. Of course, this is only going by what could be gleaned from the Big West v. Tatsunoko case a few years back. Still, Tatsunoko would not possibly impart rights to HG that they themselves did not have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terry the lone wolf Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 (edited) The reviewer hit some major points that are undeniable. I own the entire set of "Prelude" and trust me it's not a pleasurable reading experience. It seemed to me they were cashing in or trying to make a sequel series to Sentinels but at the same time retconning the Sentinels out of existence. The book was too rushed.... Though, he was wrong about the aborted sequels; HG never tried to make a RT 3, 4, & 5. Robotech 3 was directly connected to the Sentinels and when that series fell apart so did RT 3. They said concepts from "3" made its way into the novel "The End of the Circle". Robotech 4 & 5 were like urban myths never confirmed by Harmony Gold. Edited July 3, 2009 by terry the lone wolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freiflug88 Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 That's why the Robotech movie is going to be difficult to make... You see... Japan is one of the biggest film markets in the world. I don't think WB will risk the opportunity of releasing the movie there... That's why I believe the movie producers will have to make lots of changes to the mecha and character designs as well as the original plot... Do you mean WB will not risk losing the opportunity of releasing the movie in Japan? If WB isn't going to release the movie in Japan then there would no doubt be more changes WB would be able to get away with. Yeah Japan is one of the biggest film markets in world, but its also the one market in the world where animated movies consistently outsell live action movies. Factoring in the insignificant fanbase for Robotech in Japan and the potential legal costs with a lawsuit the Japanese film market just doesn't seem to appealing for the RLAM. From what I've read it appears HG/Tatsunoko have distribution and merchandising rights outside of Japan, but Big West owns the designs flat out. They also do not appear to have any sort of rights to create sequels or derivatives, so expect substantial changes to the story details. Indeed, Big West is the sole rights older of any Macross sequels or derivatives. Big West was able to obtain the unofficial sequel Macross II after establishing this fact. Maybe we should be hoping the RLAM is a Macross rip-off and that Big West can just outright take it from WB and HG like they did with Macross II! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einherjar Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 That's why the Robotech movie is going to be difficult to make... You see... Japan is one of the biggest film markets in the world. I don't think WB will risk the opportunity of releasing the movie there... That's why I believe the movie producers will have to make lots of changes to the mecha and character designs as well as the original plot... They could always pay the Japanese companies a huge sum to get around it, maybe even pay Mari Ijima to endorse it to get bigger sales in the country. Still, it could confuse the hell out of a lot of people. The Republibot is also doing simultaneous reviews of each Macross/Robotech episode (dub tracks) at the moment. If you ever wanted to know the differences between the versions, this might help. http://republibot.com/category/tags/robotech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bri Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 That's why the Robotech movie is going to be difficult to make... You see... Japan is one of the biggest film markets in the world. I don't think WB will risk the opportunity of releasing the movie there... That's why I believe the movie producers will have to make lots of changes to the mecha and character designs as well as the original plot... It wouldn't matter if the movie is released in Japan or not. Copyrights are valid in both US and Japan through the Berne convention. As long as WB has tangible assets in Japan (and they have) they can be affected through Japanese courts without the need of US legal cooperation. I doubt WB would dare to touch the designs. Story wise maybe, wouldnt be to hard to create a generic alien ship crash origen story without the mention of anything Macross. Indeed, Big West is the sole rights older of any Macross sequels or derivatives. Big West was able to obtain the unofficial sequel Macross II after establishing this fact. Maybe we should be hoping the RLAM is a Macross rip-off and that Big West can just outright take it from WB and HG like they did with Macross II! Big West owns the Macross designs at least, see the link on the first page of this thread. BW is not an anime production company however (they act as anime sponsors, advertising is their core bussiness, the creation and management of anime projects is complex and worth a thread on its own). They had Mac II made by another production company. So it's an official Macross production and was always owned by BW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freiflug88 Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 As long as WB has tangible assets in Japan (and they have) they can be affected through Japanese courts without the need of US legal cooperation. Forgot about that, but that is a very good observation. Story wise maybe, wouldnt be to hard to create a generic alien ship crash origen story without the mention of anything Macross. That's no weather balloon its the SDF 1! Big West owns the Macross designs at least, see the link on the first page of this thread. BW is not an anime production company however (they act as anime sponsors, advertising is their core bussiness, the creation and management of anime projects is complex and worth a thread on its own). They had Mac II made by another production company. So it's an official Macross production and was always owned by BW. Huh, I had always heard that it was an unofficial production. Its probably just confusion over the fact that Shoji Kawamori, the creator of Macross wanted nothing to do with it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macross007 Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 They could always pay the Japanese companies a huge sum to get around it, maybe even pay Mari Ijima to endorse it to get bigger sales in the country. Still, it could confuse the hell out of a lot of people. The Republibot is also doing simultaneous reviews of each Macross/Robotech episode (dub tracks) at the moment. If you ever wanted to know the differences between the versions, this might help. http://republibot.com/category/tags/robotech That guy reviews are great. He can mention all the nonsenses of the robotech version. And God knows how they are a lot of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einherjar Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 Inicdentally, when "Shadow Chronicles" came out, I remember Captain JLS really pushing for a trade paperback of "Prelude," because it was going for astronomical amounts on Ebay. What made them worth so much back in the day, were they printed in limited quantities or something? People are still trying to sell the complete set for $20-$50 on eBay with no buyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 (edited) Huh, I had always heard that it was an unofficial production. Its probably just confusion over the fact that Shoji Kawamori, the creator of Macross wanted nothing to do with it though. Nah, Macross II was an official production done by Big West, it's just that Studio Nue wasn't involved with the project (though some other Macross creators were, like Haruhiko Mikimoto), the studios who did the animation were AIC and ONRIO. Kawamori's never really said he wants nothing to do with Macross II, just that it's an alternate universe story because it doesn't line up with his vision for the ongoing story (which was, at the time, Macross Plus). It was made back when he was still loudly professing that he didn't want to do another Macross show. What made them worth so much back in the day, were they printed in limited quantities or something? People are still trying to sell the complete set for $20-$50 on eBay with no buyers. Because Robotech: Prelude to the Shadow Chronicles had an extremely limited print run, and sold out fairly quickly, so right around the time Robotech fans thought that this was the start of a new, major story arc, they were fighting to snap up copies of the magazine, which supposedly contained key details about the plot. After scans were leaked to the net, most people realized that the magazine was just a rehash of several old Sentinels books with some redesigned ships and characters, and that was the end of their interest in it. Edited July 4, 2009 by Seto Kaiba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VF5SS Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 Oh man that's great. Limited print run and hungry fans makes for an instant success you can brag about even if it sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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