Anybody Thinks That Sk Needs To Redesign The Vf-1?

[Metal_Massacre_79]

If you think you can do a better job than what has already been done, why not put your money where your mouth is? Grab a bat and step up to the plate.

[Nightbat]

Is this what you had in mind? Touch it up to reflect your vision, and let's end this thread..

378185[/snapback]

O....kay

now where's the futuristic stuff?

looks to me like "Hello, and welcome to last century!"

[JKeats]

Is this what you had in mind? Touch it up to reflect your vision, and let's end this thread..

378185[/snapback]

O....kay

now where's the futuristic stuff?

looks to me like "Hello, and welcome to last century!"

378235[/snapback]

That thing is not futuristic because I think it is ugly. IT NEEDS MORE ANGLES.

[ghostryder]

O....kay

now where's the futuristic stuff?

looks to me like "Hello, and welcome to last century!"

378235[/snapback]

Hey all I did was take 5 minutes to chop up a VF-11 and add a VF-1 undermount head to get Phalanx started. I'm going off the assumption that he thinks that VF-11 and VF-19 aesthetics are futuristic enough to match the timeline, for his tastes... just trying to get the guy drawing something rather than typing

Edited March 9, 2006 by ghostryder

[myk]

There's a start!

Edited March 8, 2006 by myk

[ghostryder]

That thing is not futuristic because I think it is ugly. 

378237[/snapback]

That's pretty funny, might have to quote you in my signature...

[JB0]

I thnk I've got a redesign EVEYRONE will be pleased with. Except Luke Skywalker, but he doesn't count.

[Black Valkyrie]

, If you wanna redesign ... THEN REDESIGN THE LEGIOSS !

[ghostryder]

That thing is not futuristic because I think it is ugly. IT NEEDS MORE ANGLES.

Edited March 8, 2006 by ghostryder

[JKeats]

You guys owe me a new keyboard.

[Sundown]

OK Sundown, IMHO the VF-0 still doesn't look much like a redesign of the VF-1 because in the fighter mode of the VF-0, it looks ugly. It looks like a even more crappy version of the VF-1 just larger.t]

So you want a "redesigned VF-1" that's more extreme in bits, but in other ways retains some VF-1 features that the VF-0 doesn't. And it looks like you don't like Kawamori's new design aesthetics. If you wan't him to redesign the VF-1, you're going to get a VF-0, or something like it, or he might just stare at you flabberghasted and say, "I thought I just did." Pretty much whatever it is you want, you'll have to do it yourself.

[Sdf-1]

After catching up with the two last pages, my brain hurts.

[JB0]

After catching up with the two last pages, my brain hurts.

378302[/snapback]

That's only because it liquified and started dribbling out your ears.

[Ishimaru]

Whats the point of this topic?

[Rocket Punch]

Phalanx thinks he can design a better VF-1.

[Phalanx]

Sure you guys would think that I'm insulting SK's judgement of beautiful and ugly when it comes to the VF-1 and VF-0's design but seriously when you look at it these designs they do tend to look a little ugly on the overall. I know it and the whole world knows it. It just looks downright ugly. I mean why would SK design such a VF run-of-the mill looking fighter with out bothering to update its appearance to make it look more modern. I mean, if hypothetically, SK's VF-19 and VF-22 valks just so happened to look like crappy in terms of having an extremely outdated look to it in M+ and M7, wouldn't you think he has an unusual sense of style with his designs? Because this is the same type of discussion that I had with my other topic on the realtionship between American and Japanese SCI-FI ships, where I said that SCI-FI ships from American works tend to look "whack" compared to the ones that Japanese people make in their games. I already know that SK isn't American but his sense of style of with the VF-1 is on par with what I said in my other topic.

But back to the topic at hand, When I looked back at the head of the VF-1SOL S, I realized that it look far too futuristic for standards but I realized that there was a perfect modernization of the VF-1's head all along and it was the VF-1AR, VF-1JR, VF-1SR from Macross 2036. That is a good example of what the redesigned VF-1 heads should look like. But, as far as the body for it goes for fighter mode and battroid mode, it still is alittle difficult to explain.

[Radd]

Actually, aside from the VF-0, Kawamori also did another redesign. A few of them, in fact. Anyone else remember the VF-EX Variable Fighter Experimental Program? A series of Valkyrie designs based on the idea of updating the VF-1's basic design to post Mac+/Mac7 technology?

http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/magazines/cm-page-14.jpg

http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/magazines/cm-page-13.jpg

http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/magazi...2002_page-1.jpg

http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/magazi...2002_page-2.jpg

http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/magazi...2002_page-3.jpg

http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/magazi...2002_page-4.jpg

http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/magazi...2002_page-5.jpg

http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/magazi...2002_page-6.jpg

http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/magazi...tumn02page1.jpg

http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/magazi...er-page-1&2.jpg

http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/magazi...nter-page-2.jpg

http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/magazi...nter-page-1.jpg

http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/magazi...aii-fighter.jpg

http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/magazi...ii-battroid.jpg

http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/magazi...ng-cm-page2.jpg

http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/magazi...ng-cm-page1.jpg

http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/magazi...ng-cm-page4.jpg

http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/magazi...ng-cm-page3.jpg

http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/magazi...ng-cm-page5.jpg

http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/magazi...ng-cm-page6.jpg

http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/magazi...ng-cm-page7.jpg

http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/magazi...ng-cm-page8.jpg

[Mr March]

Sure you guys would think that I'm insulting SK's judgement of beautiful and ugly when it comes to the VF-1 and VF-0's design but seriously when you look at it these designs they do tend to look a little ugly on the overall. I know it and the whole world knows it. It just looks downright ugly. I mean why would SK design such a VF run-of-the mill  looking fighter with out bothering to update its appearance to make it look more modern. I mean, if hypothetically, SK's VF-19 and VF-22 valks just so happened to look like crappy in terms of having an extremely outdated look to it in M+ and M7, wouldn't you think he has an unusual sense of style with his designs? Because this is the same type of discussion that I had with my other topic on the realtionship between American and Japanese SCI-FI ships, where I said that SCI-FI ships from American works tend to look "whack" compared to the ones that Japanese people make in their games. I already know that SK isn't American but his sense of style of with the VF-1 is on par with what I said in my other topic.

378363[/snapback]

omg...

[Rocket Punch]

Sure you guys would think that I'm insulting SK's judgement of beautiful and ugly when it comes to the VF-1 and VF-0's design but seriously when you look at it these designs they do tend to look a little ugly on the overall.

378363[/snapback]

No, seriously, they DON'T look ugly.

I know it and the whole world knows it. It just looks downright ugly.

378363[/snapback]

Really? The whole WORLD knows it? Are you for real? Where is the data to back up this insane claim of yours? Show me some published reviews stating so. Hell, post some links to other forums or webpages where people are saying this.

I just went through this entire thread and you're the ONLY person who thinks this.

[Dangard Ace]

Pulls out couch, popcorn and a big 2 litre jug of pop.

[JB0]

Sure you guys would think that I'm insulting SK's judgement of beautiful and ugly when it comes to the VF-1 and VF-0's design but seriously when you look at it these designs they do tend to look a little ugly on the overall. I know it and the whole world knows it. It just looks downright ugly.

That's all personal aesthetics. I'll thank you to not push your personal opinion as representative of the whole world.

Especially not since you presented the clownish monstrosity that is the VF-1SOL as a superior design.

I mean why would SK design such a VF run-of-the mill  looking fighter with out bothering to update its appearance to make it look more modern. I mean, if hypothetically, SK's VF-19 and VF-22 valks just so happened to look like crappy in terms of having an extremely outdated look to it in M+ and M7, wouldn't you think he has an unusual sense of style with his designs?

It's parallel evolution. The VF-0 and VF-1 were equivalent to jets of the 70s. The YF-19 and YF-21 are equivalent to jets of the 90s.

Each era of Macross has VFs based on a similar era in reality, with the VF-1 and 2009 locked to it's 1980 real-world release.

The VF-1 is intended to look like a modern 70s plane. Not a modern 90s plane(really 2010s by the time it all gets rolled out, as near as I can tell). Making it look more modern just breaks all continuity. "Unofficial variations" are even worse, as they have nothing to do with anything. They're just slapping random labels on things for the sake of making a quick buck.

But back to the topic at hand, When I looked back at the head of the VF-1SOL S, I realized that it look far too futuristic for standards but I realized that there was a perfect modernization of the VF-1's head  all along and it was the VF-1AR, VF-1JR, VF-1SR from Macross 2036. That is a good example of what the redesigned VF-1 heads should look like. But, as far as the body for it goes for fighter mode and battroid mode, it still is alittle difficult to explain.

Depends who you ask. I think all 3 of the "R series" have far worse heads than the originals.

The J got it's head bashed in. The S grew a massive tumor. And the A... got bootlegged by a Predator? It's sad that they CAN make the A worse.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

Pulls out couch, popcorn and a big 2 litre jug of pop.

378377[/snapback]

Lights fire and pulls out marshmellows to roast with fellow MW'ers. Hot cocoa anyone?

Seriously Phalanx, your posts are reminscent of my poll extravaganza a few years back-ridiculous. Ease back on these subjects.

Besides the VF-1 as designed in the very early 80s....how the hell is Kawamori supposed to make the plane modern looking for 2006 when he designed it 2 decades earlier? use some logic.

[Graham]

Actually, aside from the VF-0, Kawamori also did another redesign. A few of them, in fact. Anyone else remember the VF-EX Variable Fighter Experimental Program? A series of Valkyrie designs based on the idea of updating the VF-1's basic design to post Mac+/Mac7 technology?

[

378364[/snapback]

Yep, both the SW-XA1 Schneeblume (great design IMO) and the VF-0 are kawamori's take on a redesigned VF-1.

I'd love a toy of the SW-XA1.

Graham

[Sundown]

Sure you guys would think that I'm insulting SK's judgement of beautiful and ugly when it comes to the VF-1 and VF-0's design but seriously when you look at it these designs they do tend to look a little ugly on the overall. I know it and the whole world knows it. It just looks downright ugly.

Sigh. Do you realize whether something is "ugly" or not is an opinion, and that your personal opinion might not be usually universally shared, as shocking as that might be?

You do realize that there are folks out there that have vastly different tastes than you do, and that just because something is obvious to you, others might not see the same thing-- and you might even be in the extreme minority? The only thing that we know for sure is that most everyone here disagrees with you.

I mean why would SK design such a VF run-of-the mill looking fighter with out bothering to update its appearance to make it look more modern. I mean, if hypothetically, SK's VF-19 and VF-22 valks just so happened to look like crappy in terms of having an extremely outdated look to it in M+ and M7, wouldn't you think he has an unusual sense of style with his designs?

Yes, the VF-1 looks a little dated. But it's the most beautiful, proportionate, and elegant of Kawamori's designs in both simplicity and form. This might shock you, but I feel actually feel that Kawamori's sense of style has degraded through the years, and his designs have looked worse and worse compared to the original VF-1 that I fell in love with at first sight. His designs have gotten more complex and refined, yes, but few of his recent designs have captured the feel the original did.

In my opinion of course. And to me, the VF-19, VF-11, and the battroid mode of the VF-17 and VA-3 are his "run of the mill" designs that I would give a big Meehh to.

And yes, this might shock you, but if anything, that VF-1SOL is ugly. Especially its head. The VF-1S's head doesn't need modernizing... seeing as there are no real world robot heads we can use to determine whether the 1S is outdated or not. If anything, its head's what looks perfectly fine, and sticking a bunch of crap on it and making it more "extreme" isn't making it more modern. It's making it look crummy. And of the things I dislike most about the VF-0, it's its head, as Kawamori just slapped a bunch of extra junk on it that it didn't need, which only obscured its original form and elegance.

Of course, again, opinion. Express them? Fine. Shoving them down folks throats as facts? Not fine.

Edited March 9, 2006 by Sundown

[bsu legato]

Pulls out couch, popcorn and a big 2 litre jug of pop.

378377[/snapback]

No way man, change the channel! We've seen this one already.

[Nied]

Dang Radd I was going to post something on the SW-XA1 when I got home from work, but you beat me to it.

All right Phalanx you've got at least four re-designs of the VF-1 (five if you count the VF-2).

I think part of the problem you are having here is that you are only comparing the VF-1 to one style of modern fighter design The VF-1's design may be anachronistic compared to American designs like the F-22 (or F-35 for that matter) but compared to most other country's new fighters it fits right in (the VF-4 with it's canards and delta wing even more so). Take a look at the pictures in the links below, all of these planes are as new or newer than the F-22.

Eurofighter Typhoon (UK, Italy, Spain, and Germany)

Dassault Rafale (France)

Saab JAS 39 Gripen (Sweden)

Mig-35 (Russia)

Chengdu J-10 (China)

Mitusbishi F-2 (Japan)

IAI Lavi (Israel)

ADA Tejas (India)

Edited March 9, 2006 by Nied

[Sundown]

OK Sundown, IMHO the VF-0 still doesn't look much like a redesign of the VF-1 because in the fighter mode of the VF-0, it looks ugly. It looks like a even more crappy version of the VF-1 just larger

Man, I just reread this. The VF-0 doesn't stop being a redesign of the VF-1 just because you don't like it. What you hate about the VF-0 is precisely because it is a redesign, one that happens to retain the things about the original you hate, instead of retaining the things you like.

And I don't know what you dig so much about the VF-1SOL that makes you at the same time hate the VF-0, since they both look extremely similar, especially in technological style. Yes some of the porportions are different, yes, it's a tiny bit more aggressive, and yes, the SOL has four lasers instead of two. But it looks more like a 0 than not. Except it's again, uglier, and seems to have junk stuck on it for the sake of looking "more advanced".

Sigh. So after 12 pages, here are our conclusions:

1. You hate the VF-1.

2. We don't.

3. None of Kawamori's actual redesigns satisfy you, because he didn't do them in the precise manner you would have liked.

4. You think the VF-1 is Kawamori's worst design, while some of us think its in fact the best, while the rest pale in comparison.

5. You want a redesign, even if there won't be an upcoming animation that uses it, and then a new model kit of it. That's not how Studio Nue or Kawamori works.

6. You're going to have to design this VF-1 that you like, because it's not going to come from Kawamori.

7. And even if you do, many here won't be very receptive of it, because we simply share different tastes and aesthetics.

Unless, maybe this is what you want:

http://www.mahq.net/mecha/macross/advvalk/vf-3000.htm

Edited March 9, 2006 by Sundown

[JB0]

Unless, maybe this is what you want:

http://www.mahq.net/mecha/macross/advvalk/vf-3000.htm

Or maybe this one...

http://mahq.net/mecha/macross/rememberme/sdp-1.htm

[Sdf-1]

This thread is increasing suicide rates. Are you willing to take responsibility for that Phalanx?

[BlueMax]

Like Sundown, I feel that the VF-1 was his best design, and every VF after that never gave me that kind of feeling of awe, not even the VF-19, which is another of his most popular VFs.

[Mowe]

I must confess, whether people are on or off topics, checking this thread has become my daily ritual. I really like to see where this one ends.

[azrael]

Pulls out couch, popcorn and a big 2 litre jug of pop.

378377[/snapback]

Lights fire and pulls out marshmellows to roast with fellow MW'ers. Hot cocoa anyone?

378406[/snapback]

*Grabs popcorn* Yoink!

No way man, change the channel! We've seen this one already.

*Grabs back remote* Yoink!

*Grabs biggie Lazy Boy chair*

Pass me cup of cocoa.

You know...The VF-1 has been redesigned so many times, official and un-official redesigns, and given the most variants, and yet... You know what? Can't please them all.

I must confess, whether people are on or off topics, checking this thread has become my daily ritual. I really like to see where this one ends.

For the most part, we are on topic...but the original poster can't give us a straight answer. We keep going around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around...

[Sundown]

This thread is fun like a trainwreck is fun. You keep lookin' but feel horrible for it.

The original poster seems to have a hard time understanding how it's possible that his opinion and sense of style isn't one that everyone else shares, especially when what he feels and sees is so obvious to him. If I understand it correctly, he doesn't want a VF-1 redesign per se. He wants one that he actually likes, and to him it's probably baffling how someone can redesign the VF-1 multiple times and not get it exactly like how he pictures it in his mind.

[Radd]

Yep, both the SW-XA1 Schneeblume (great design IMO) and the VF-0 are kawamori's take on a redesigned VF-1.

I'd love a toy of the SW-XA1.

Graham

378408[/snapback]

Oh man, I am right there with you. The Schneegans isn't too shabby either. I suppose it's too much to wish for Yamato to release an Advance Valkyrie line or something like that, hmm? Ah well...

  Dang Radd I was going to post something on the SW-XA1 when I got home from work, but you beat me to it.

Heh. I'd actually thought of this way back when I first noticed the thread, but I was hoping someone else would do the work to find the page scans. Glad I wound up doing it afterall, I forgot how much I love these designs.

Phalanx, you're persistant, stubborn, and determined. These aren't neccessarily bad traits, however I doubt you'll change any minds here, and if my hunch is correct you may very well understand why in a few years.

In the meantime, I'd suggest channeling your desire to see a VF-1 redesign of your liking into a more productive course. Why not try designing mecha yourself? Keep drawing Valkyries and other mecha until you get what's in your head down on paper? Seems to me that would be more fun than butting heads with everyone here, and if you kept at it long enough, you're bound to get good at it.

[myk]

If I understand it correctly, he doesn't want a VF-1 redesign per se.  He wants one that he actually likes, and to him it's probably baffling how someone can redesign the VF-1 multiple times and not get it exactly like how he pictures it in his mind.

378476[/snapback]

How egocentric...