Newbie Questions on Macross

[Hiriyu]

I was always of the impression that it was some kind of a spaceship city used by the Protocultures that first visited Earth - later being abandoned/forgotten as the war with the Supervision Army heated up.

That has been my impression as well. The fact that the city computer was able to "raise" the city for Hikaru and Misa hints at mobility of a sort.

I'm not quite sure how the Birdman of Macross Zero fits into it... haven't given that revision much thought, to be honest.

My theory is that in Zero, the island of Mayan is in fact either the ruins of Artela (Alternate continuity), or of a similar colony/ship. Fits with the legend told in story form at the beginning of the first few episodes...

[EvaUnit02]

Is it not recommended to watch DYRL before one sees the series? Thanks.

I ask as I have the series on order, but already have the film on DVD (unwatched).

Edited December 24, 2006 by EvaUnit02NZ

[sketchley]

The film will probably be a little bit less understandable if you haven't seen the TV series yet (as it is based on, or a summary of, the events of the TV series.)

[JB0]

The film will probably be a little bit less understandable if you haven't seen the TV series yet (as it is based on, or a summary of, the events of the TV series.)

And only part of the TV series at that.

They skip something like half of the show.

[BEAST]

(Perhaps a set of newbie Q's--perhaps better subject matter for a separate thread: you tell me.)

Q1: Is there some sort of major historical significance to the original Macross TV series, which sets it apart from all other anime from its era in history? Did it feature something very unique and distinctive in either its concept, approach, animation, storyline, or distribution?

Q2: Was RT the first animated program to win a big following in the States that wanted to go back to the original Japanese source material, only to run into a legal road block? If yes, does SDFM therefore represent some sort of "victory" of hardcore, conscientious anime fandom over the conventional television network/producer/etc. mindset?

IOW, could RT/SDFM be said to have started a modern mainstream fascination with mecha anime as originally written, or to have spawned serious critical interest in mecha anime as a legitimate entertainment genre, to a greater extent than any other anime program before? (My apologies for mentioning them in the same sentence.) Were other animes all thought of as merely silly child's fare, or minor underground cult genre at best, while RT/SDFM somehow broke through to the masses?

Or does that honor belong to another anime property?

Or to no single specific anime at all?

REASON WHY I ASK: If "they" were to ever make live-action films of SDFM, I think they would need to provide some sort of "hook" to producers and studio execs that set SDFM apart from all of its other anime cousins. Some sort of historical significance or the like would go a long way towards that goal.

Oh

Newbie

Q., oh

Newbie

Q!

Oh

Newbie

Q., baby I love you

Newbie

Q.!

[azrael]

(Perhaps a set of newbie Q's--perhaps better subject matter for a separate thread: you tell me.)

Q1: Is there some sort of major historical significance to the original Macross TV series, which sets it apart from all other anime from its era in history? Did it feature something very unique and distinctive in either its concept, approach, animation, storyline, or distribution?

Nope. Besides the fact that it aired during the peak of the transforming toys era, nope, there really isn't any significance to it.

Q2: Was RT the first animated program to win a big following in the States that wanted to go back to the original Japanese source material, only to run into a legal road block? If yes, does SDFM therefore represent some sort of "victory" of hardcore, conscientious anime fandom over the conventional television network/producer/etc. mindset?

Technically, yes, only due to the legal issue. However, SDFM is unique because of the legal issues. Back when it was being produced, the studio involved with the series did not have the capital to complete the series as is, and such, they went to Tatsunoko to help back the series. This lead to the current problem we face today. It is unique that it is one of the few, if any, to experience the legal issues that it faces. I won't say it is a "victory" since there has been a desire to bring over lots of old anime to the current market. However, the dated look is hard to sell among newer fans.

IOW, could RT/SDFM be said to have started a modern mainstream fascination with mecha anime as originally written, or to have spawned serious critical interest in mecha anime as a legitimate entertainment genre, to a greater extent than any other anime program before? (My apologies for mentioning them in the same sentence.) Were other animes all thought of as merely silly child's fare, or minor underground cult genre at best, while RT/SDFM somehow broke through to the masses?

RT is more aligned with Western fascination with mecha anime. However, should you go to the Philippines or some Asian countries outside of Japan, they saw Macross in it's non-RT form. Most animes on TV are still considered a children's genre. It is that, over time, RT gained a cult following as those people who watched it as children grew up.

Or does that honor belong to another anime property?

Depends on which era you are talking about. For some, it could be Evangelion, others, Gundam Wing and others, Macross Plus.

Or to no single specific anime at all?

REASON WHY I ASK: If "they" were to ever make live-action films of SDFM, I think they would need to provide some sort of "hook" to producers and studio execs that set SDFM apart from all of its other anime cousins. Some sort of historical significance or the like would go a long way towards that goal.

Again, depends on the era. Also, a live-action Macross was thought about, however, studio interest has died since it was thought about. Unfortunately, historical significance may run into problems as who is your target audience. Look at Transformers.

If you wish to dive more into this topic, a new thread may be better.

[EvaUnit02]

I've got a few questions:-

1. What on Earth does "Macross Zero Style!" mean/refer to? Is it one of those 4chan memes?

2. Has the legal entanglements of the franchise affected the production of the Transformers Jetfire action figure in any way?

3. I noticed a lot of enviromentalist concerns in Macross Zero, is this a recurring theme in other Kawamori works?

4. What was general reception of Macross Zero?

5. How are the R1 Macross Plus DVDs in the video transfer quality department? I.e. Are they interlaced? Do they suffer from compress artifacts? etc.

6. Is the Movie version of Macross Plus worth bothering with?

Thanks in advance.

[azrael]

I've got a few questions:-

1. What on Earth does "Macross Zero Style!" mean/refer to? Is it one of those 4chan memes?

2. Has the legal entanglements of the franchise affected the production of the Transformers Jetfire action figure in any way?

3. I noticed a lot of enviromentalist concerns in Macross Zero, is this a recurring theme in other Kawamori works?

4. What was general reception of Macross Zero?

5. How are the R1 Macross Plus DVDs in the video transfer quality department? I.e. Are they interlaced? Do they suffer from compress artifacts? etc.

6. Is the Movie version of Macross Plus worth bothering with?

1. Yes, thanks to 4chan, we get to explain what that means...It means nothing...it's just rambling from 4chan.

2. No. IIRC, Jetfire was redesigned in current toy lines.

3. Only among some of his current works, but that remains to be seen as this trend is only within the past 5 years. Arjuna comes to mind with strong environmental themes.

4. Some thought it was good, some thought it was horrible.

5. Mostly mild. not good, but not bad. The movie was a straight transfer from the VHS....

6. That's up to you. It's a different telling of the OAV.

[JB0]

REgarding MacPlus:

IMO, the movie is a far more cohesive story than the OVA.

The scenes added to the OVA to extend it and generate cliffhangers* leave a few points where my suspension of reality failed, and I was just left going "What the hell? That's insane! It makes no sense!"

Pity the movie DVD sucks.

The OVA transfer is good... except it's way too dark.

*Yes, I know the OVA came out first. But the movie is the story as originally written. The OVA was created to generate hype for the movie.

http://macross.anime.net/fallacies/index.html#Story

[EvaUnit02]

Question:-

Why does Kim have red hair in DYRL?

[Kyp Durron]

Nope, the SV-51 never even had a name from the start.

The name "Phoenix" most likely originated from the magazines. Unfortunately, the magazines came before the final product. The DVD liner notes and Kawamori Design Works book do not carry that same information so that name has been stricken from the record and is no longer considered canon.

The VF-0 is named, "VF-0" or "Zero".

I prefer to think of it as a "Type Zero" Valkire myself.

-Kyp

[skull1 leader]

Just finished watching Macross 7 series. Will save judgement. My question is "does the information that was found on the island on Planet Lux the 37th fleet crash landed on imply that the Protoculture was destroyed by Protodevilin?"

Edited January 2, 2007 by skull1 leader

[azrael]

Why does Kim have red hair in DYRL?

No idea. Talk to the people who did the cel coloring.

Just finished watching Macross 7 series. Will save judgement. My question is "does the information that was found on the island on Planet Lux the 37th fleet crash landed on imply that the Protoculture was destroyed by Protodevilin?"

http://macross.anime.net/story/chronology/...0000/index.html

Nine months after the emergence of Protodeviln, over 85% of life in the Protoculture is lost. Direct combat between the Protodeviln with their [army of] manipulated Protoculture people (Supervision Army) and the Zentradi.

[myk]

6. Is the Movie version of Macross Plus worth bothering with?

Once you go Movie version, you'll never go back-to the OVA's that is. The Movie version is a slicker product with a smoother flowing story and a more dramatic ending for a pivotal character. The hard-subs and worse-than-SVHS quality of the visuals will detract from the overall experience, but trust me, the movie is well worth the effort to watch...

[EvaUnit02]

Once you go Movie version, you'll never go back-to the OVA's that is. The Movie version is a slicker product with a smoother flowing story and a more dramatic ending for a pivotal character. The hard-subs and worse-than-SVHS quality of the visuals will detract from the overall experience, but trust me, the movie is well worth the effort to watch...

Cool, I might buy it then.

Thanks to everyone who has answered my questions.

[EvaUnit02]

Question:-

Are the singing vocals of Sharon Apple provided by Gabriella Robin?

[Beltane70]

Yep.

[eight_car]

I didn't see the mearoad directly referenced in the macross Series, it just had Misa agreeing to let Minmei come aboard for when they left.

My question is, where does the meagroad come from and where is it found that they all disappeared?

[azrael]

My question is, where does the meagroad come from and where is it found that they all disappeared?

1) http://macross.anime.net//mecha/united_nat...s/Megaroad.html

2) http://macross.anime.net//story/chronology/2013/index.html

2016

Megaroad-01's communications cease near the center of the Milky Way Galaxy. (News about this ship are not publicized.)

[Scream Man]

In mac 7, where are the rest of max n milias kids? Granted im only about halfway thgrough the series, but surely we'd have seen the rest if they were on board...

[azrael]

In mac 7, where are the rest of max n milias kids? Granted im only about halfway thgrough the series, but surely we'd have seen the rest if they were on board...

Komilla - unknown

Emilia - Watch M7 the movie

Miracle - unknown

Miranda - unknown

Muse - unknown

Mylene - take a wild guess

Therese - unknown

[Scream Man]

And see, that bugs me a bit. 2 of the seven? and if Mylene is 14, that makes her little sister someone who should be with ehr Mum!

I could kinda see Komilla staying behind (As the oldest) and being a kind of figurehead for unity of human and zentrans, but what about the rest?

[JB0]

I could kinda see Komilla staying behind (As the oldest) and being a kind of figurehead for unity of human and zentrans, but what about the rest?

Emilia got bigger-ized, customized a QRau with colored smoke jets, and took up singing in the mountains of some backwater mining planet.

[Beltane70]

And see, that bugs me a bit. 2 of the seven? and if Mylene is 14, that makes her little sister someone who should be with ehr Mum!

At 14, Mylene is the youngest of the Jenius girls. Azrael's listing isn't in the order the girls were born.

[Scream Man]

ah, ok.

So the others are pptentially all old enough to fend for themselves.

danke.

[RDClip]

In mac 7, where are the rest of max n milias kids? Granted im only about halfway thgrough the series, but surely we'd have seen the rest if they were on board...

Pretty much all the other daughters are adults now, Miranda is the 2nd youngest at 5 years older than Mylene. There's a chance that the older ones just didn't go with the M7 fleet because they were adults with their own lives. Miranda may have gone with her parents and just went back to Earth or somewhere else (there must be someway to get out of the fleet and back home)

I do believe I've read that Komillia became a fighter pilot, herself when she grew up.

[Zinjo]

Pretty much all the other daughters are adults now, Miranda is the 2nd youngest at 5 years older than Mylene. There's a chance that the older ones just didn't go with the M7 fleet because they were adults with their own lives. Miranda may have gone with her parents and just went back to Earth or somewhere else (there must be someway to get out of the fleet and back home)

I do believe I've read that Komillia became a fighter pilot, herself when she grew up.

Well in the Macross 2036 game, Komilla follows in her parent's footsteps and joins Spacy and does become a VF pilot.

Emilia pulls a Basara and wanders around the galaxy playing her music in a customized Q-Rau.

[azrael]

Well in the Macross 2036 game, Komilla follows in her parent's footsteps and joins Spacy and does become a VF pilot.

Macross 2036 isn't part of the canon timeline. So we can't confirm that that was the path Komillia took.

[RDClip]

Macross 2036 isn't part of the canon timeline. So we can't confirm that that was the path Komillia took.

It's not for certain that it is canon, but it's not for certain that it isn't canon. So, it is a possibility that it did happen.

[Beltane70]

It's not for certain that it is canon, but it's not for certain that it isn't canon. So, it is a possibility that it did happen.

Macross 2036 is definitely not cannon. Unlike both Digital Mission games and M3, 2036 and its sequel, Eternal Love Song, are not mentioned anywhere in the official timeline.

Also, the events in Macross 2036 conflict with those mentioned in the chronology. In 2036 and Eternal Love Song, Kamjin is still alive, the VF-1 is still the main fighter for the UN Spacy, and the VF-4 is the fighter of elite pilots.

[JB0]

Macross 2036 is definitely not cannon. Unlike both Digital Mission games and M3, 2036 and its sequel, Eternal Love Song, are not mentioned anywhere in the official timeline.

But it's not explicitly banished like Macross 2 is. I think that's the logic being used here.

Which doesn't particularly matter.

As I understand things the official timeline is exclusive, which is to say that any items not mentioned in it are automatically non-canon and "never happened" simply by virtue of omission.

[Zinjo]

But it's not explicitly banished like Macross 2 is. I think that's the logic being used here.

Which doesn't particularly matter.

As I understand things the official timeline is exclusive, which is to say that any items not mentioned in it are automatically non-canon and "never happened" simply by virtue of omission.

Really?

I for one would like an actual reference to the "explicit banishment" personally.

As far as I am aware, Kawamori has never actually officially commented on the show, using the reasoning that he's never saw it, thus cannot comment on something he hasn't seen.

Besides zealous fans, I haven't seen any references to this effect.

I am open to the idea, I just haven't seen any specific references from SK or Studio Nue as of yet.

All that I know of as "official", is that Studio Nue considers it a "parallel universe" version of the series. Big West still embraces it as an official Macross series and Kawamori won't comment on it.

Now the canon gestapo may make a case for it, but then again these same people would likely have argued that there were no variable fighters produced in the "canon" chronology before the release of the Macross Zero OVA series or that the PD didn't exist prior to the release of Macross 7 (since in both cases those elements were added to explain the series').

I do find it amusing that many here find greater solace in the official chronology than the actual creator of the show, who refuses to allow himself to be completely bound by it like the Star Trek franchise.

Granted the contradictory elements in 2036 do make a legitimate case against it's story elements, however, with the absence of actual data, one can openly speculate that Komilla could have in fact joined Spacy and became a fighter pilot.

To take the position that "official timeline is exclusive" is, in my opinion, an arrogant assumption made by fans. If one were to make arguments based on harmonization (or lack thereof) with the established timeline, that is another matter. Just because a thing isn't mentioned doesn't exclude it from a potential reality.

I just don't understand why people feel an obsessive need to hold up chronologies like some sort of immutable gospel...

Trekkies have to be the worst for this followed by Star Wars fans...

[JB0]

Really?

I for one would like an actual reference to the "explicit banishment" personally.

As far as I am aware, Kawamori has never actually officially commented on the show, using the reasoning that he's never saw it, thus cannot comment on something he hasn't seen.

Besides zealous fans, I haven't seen any references to this effect.

I am open to the idea, I just haven't seen any specific references from SK or Studio Nue as of yet.

All that I know of as "official", is that Studio Nue considers it a "parallel universe" version of the series. Big West still embraces it as an official Macross series and Kawamori won't comment on it.

"This show is in a whole 'nother universe. It's got nothing to do with any of these other shows, and the only relation between it and everything else is the name."

That's what "parallel universe" means.

It IS an explicit banishment. It's just a nice way of putting it.

Studio Nue kicked it to the curb, but was nice enough to buy it a bus ticket first.

If I recall, Big West's stance is that Mac2 was a sequel to DYRL.

We already knew DYRL was an alternate reality, because it's completely irreconcilable with SDF Macross. So Big West placed it in a parallel universe from SDF Macross.

Since Studio Nue's works take the TV series history as "real", and neither party's given Mac2 the strange "fiction-within-a-fiction" status of DYRL, it still means Mac 2 isn't part of the main timeline, though it also adds DYRL to the "parallel universe" timeline that Nue filed 2 under.

Unless we read Big West's sequel statement to imply it's a sequel both in our world AND in Macross' world, which makes Mac2 a tangential part of the main world in Big West's version of events(supported by the presence of Mac2 songs in Mac7?).

I do find it amusing that many here find greater solace in the official chronology than the actual creator of the show, who refuses to allow himself to be completely bound by it like the Star Trek franchise.

Since when has Star Trek been bound by an official chronology? Their continuity changes from episode to episode, you can forget about inter-series.

To take the position that "official timeline is exclusive" is, in my opinion, an arrogant assumption made by fans. If one were to make arguments based on harmonization (or lack thereof) with the established timeline, that is another matter. Just because a thing isn't mentioned doesn't exclude it from a potential reality.

I was under the impression the official stance was that only the explicitly identified items were considered "real."

...

But it looks like I'm mistaken. Poking around the Compendium, the chronology section has an entry for "Non-Studio-Nue Stories" with explanatory text stating that "these projects do not necessarily share the same chronology." Since the Compendium is an official resource and it places them in a vague limbo state, that strongly implies they have no defined status, as main-line stories, Mac2-universe stories, or unrelated-to-anything stories.

So it seems they aren't banned until stated as such, even if they don't "count" either. Not pretty.

I just don't understand why people feel an obsessive need to hold up chronologies like some sort of immutable gospel...

Trekkies have to be the worst for this followed by Star Wars fans...

I can see a few reasons for trying to stick only to the official timeline.

One is that it lets you banish the "bad parts" of the franchise(if you're lucky).

Don't like Macross 2's portrayal of photojournalists running around with fighter jets? Good news! It never happened!

Another is just that it helps keep things neat.

Example: Let's say you're nerding it out and discussing UN Spacey's weapon capabilities.

And someone brings up Max's VF-1SOL weapons from the Scrambled Valkyrie game.

Now this can go 2 ways...

1. Inclusive timeline. No one's said it doesn't count, so it does.

Why aren't barrier chains and homing lasers, which were INCREDIBLY useful technology AND successfully deployed through an entire military campaign pre-Megaroad, equipped on the VFs in Plus and Seven? Clearly there MUST be SOMETHING wrong with them since they AREN'T on later VFs. But they're so useful, why WOULDN'T they be? Couldn't they have fixed the (obviously minor) problems in 3 decades? It just doesn't make sense! And yet, it HAS to.

2. Exclusive timeline. No one's said it counts, so it doesn't.

Scrambled Valkyrie, while a fine game, isn't part of the official timeline. It doesn't mean jack squat. There are no barrier chains. Homing lasers never happened. These aren't the guns you're looking for. Move along now.

The "limbo state" isn't useful, as the game's events can't both exist and not exist at the same time, Schrodinger and his cat be damned.

The second approach goes a long way towards maintaining a sane story-world, especially if you've licensed others to play in your sandbox. They can do whatever they want, but until you say so it's not a part of YOUR sand castle.

[sketchley]

As I understand things the official timeline is exclusive, which is to say that any items not mentioned in it are automatically non-canon and "never happened" simply by virtue of omission.

If I understand it correctly, the official stance is: if it's not directly mentioned, it is open to possibility in the future, but it's currently non-existant.

There's something about those games... one person takes on the entire enemy fleet, and defeats them, unlimited missiles, etc., etc., that I hope most everyone will agree are simply unrealistic or simply too far beyond what suspension of disbelief allows storytellers to get away with. I personally think that anything that is from a game has to be taken with a grain of salt and has to go through a kind of 'conversion' process to fit with the greater storyline. Single pilot is representative of an entire squad or batallion, etc..

[wldr]

If I understand it correctly, the official stance is: if it's not directly mentioned, it is open to possibility in the future, but it's currently non-existant.

There's something about those games... one person takes on the entire enemy fleet, and defeats them, unlimited missiles, etc., etc., that I hope most everyone will agree are simply unrealistic or simply too far beyond what suspension of disbelief allows storytellers to get away with. I personally think that anything that is from a game has to be taken with a grain of salt and has to go through a kind of 'conversion' process to fit with the greater storyline. Single pilot is representative of an entire squad or batallion, etc..

I would like to add that anyone who believed that how things get accomplished in a video game is how it would work in the "real" world needs to pay attention to the basic rules of both physics and attrition. First the armament nesasary to wipe out that many enemies, as you said, would be impossible to carry all at once on a single craft. Second, no matter how good the pilot, eventually he/she will get worn down by numbers and defeated without the support of others, or at least some very serious down time. Seriously though, down time or not, dead meat without help.