STAR WARS EP III PICS

[Agent ONE]

This is the one I've been waiting for. *hope I can come here and say "Best. SW. Ever."

I think we will all say that just because we know this is the last one... This is the one that ties it all together.

[Max Jenius]

This is the one I've been waiting for. *hope I can come here and say "Best. SW. Ever."

I think we will all say that just because we know this is the last one... This is the one that ties it all together.

I dunno, looks like there are far cooler things happening IMHO than the other films. Maybe I won't fall asleep in this one at all!

[the white drew carey]

Next trailer to be shown March 11th before the new Dreamworks CGI film "Robots".

[Jolly Rogers]

[lord_breetai]

OMG... I laughed so hard. Thanks.

[Zentrandude]

That would make lab monkeys vomit with rage.

Wonder they would link this one to the next which is the first (sounds like a redneck story:D ) like they show a knocked up padamin or her holding twins hiding them around the galaxcy and how obe conbe (ms:P) ends up on the desert planet hiding. Or just hype it up and add in events that suggest that?

[bsu legato]

The discussion has seemingly moved past this topic, but since I found it being discussed on another board I figured I'd cut & paste it over here.

Doug Chiang on the look of Episode 1

http://www.starwars.com/episode-i/bts/prof...0104/index.html

What kinds of influences can we expect to see in your Episode I designs?

George Lucas influences, to start out with! After I had spent all that time studying the Star Wars style, George came in and told me he wanted something as fresh as Ralph's original work, but different. We've been saturated in designs derived from the original Star Wars look for twenty years now, and George wanted something really new. He said, "push the envelope, discover new things." It was a surprise, but really exciting. He said, "I want chrome, sleek shapes, Art Nouveau, and Art Moderne." That's when I realized that this was going to be something new and not just a rework of the earlier material.

How would you describe the look you've developed in Episode I?

This film takes place a generation earlier than the classic trilogy, and in it you see vehicles and ships treated as art forms. Many of them are romantic and elegant. It is a craftsman's era. Every detail is given care. It is kind of like the 1920's and 1930's compared to the later 20th century. Towards the later times of the classic trilogy, designs become more assembly-line like, with mass-produced aesthetics, hard angles, and a machined look. More utilitarian. The era of Episode I is more polished, more individualized, even overly-designed, but very refined. You see artistic values expressed in vehicles that are pure craft and aesthetics. Some elements are purely visual statements. Something simpler could function, but the design statements turn them into works of art.

Are there deliberate links between Episode I designs and those seen in the classic trilogy?

Absolutely. There is one ship in particular that very much foreshadows the look of a design from A New Hope, and there are other conceptual links as well.

What's your toughest challenge in working up these new designs?

There is a fine line between a handcrafted look and a look that is "too sci-fi," or "too design-ey." I think that you get that "too sci-fi" look when you use present-day aesthetics and try to project it forward into a foreign world without the history to back it up. As a result these designs date very quickly. To get around this, I've found that you should avoid making things up without anchoring them to a strong foundation based in world history.

What areas of world art or history have you drawn on for Episode I?

I took early 1950's American car design as a starting point for some of the space fighters, for chrome and sleek streamlining. For another culture in the film I drew on traditional African art stylization to get the look of their vehicles, their aesthetic. I combined that with hints of animal forms, and this invested the designs with personality, which is one of the hardest things to do.

What kind of design input do you get from George?

George is always very directly involved. He is a fantastic designer! Sometimes he will make very specific requests while other times he will just ask to see something different and fresh. In fact he will often ask for combinations of forms that, at first, don't seem to fit together. But that is where George's design genius lies, in the odd juxtaposition of unrelated images. It took me awhile to adjust to this. But this kind of direction takes the art into new areas, and we have ended up with some of our best designs by wrestling with direction that seemed impossible. 

So basically, the Prequels (up until Episode 3, anyway) looked different because Lucas wanted it that way. And since ROTS brings everythign full circle, there's no point in arguing it anymore, is there?

[HWR MKII]

I read something similar in popular mechanics back in 99. it also goes on to him saying that he got the design influence for tha naboo starfighter from a 1930s earring and otherr sources . The 2 movies also had gags geared toward Lucas himself. The naboo starfighter was yellow and chrome to reflect the roadster from American Graffiti, and the open top speeder in episode 2 was also a nod to the same roadster.

Side topic sorry. Has anoyone found the THX1138 reference in episode 2 yet? lucas has put a reference to that movie in every film he has directed. not written DIRCTED

1 THX 1138 the movie

2 American Graffiti the yellow roadster had the license plate of THX138

3 SW EP4 LUKE "Prisoner transfer from cellblock 1138

4 SW EP1 The battle droid JAR JAR knocks down at the end when they shut down has a stylized 1138 on its backpack.

So where is it in EP2

[bsu legato]

Side topic sorry. Has anoyone found the THX1138 reference in episode 2 yet? lucas has put a reference to that movie in every film he has directed. not written DIRCTED

Its impossible to see, but the THX 1138 is on the back of one of the Clone Troopers helmets at the end of the movie, when Padme & co arrive at Dooku's hanger.

[HWR MKII]

ill have to put the scene in slowmo when my projector bulbs get in from the states.

[Sundown]

He said, "I want chrome, sleek shapes, Art Nouveau, and Art Moderne." That's when I realized that this was going to be something new and not just a rework of the earlier material.

Bah to Lucas. Art Nouveau and Art Moderne are decidedly not.

There is a fine line between a handcrafted look and a look that is "too sci-fi," or "too design-ey." I think that you get that "too sci-fi" look when you use present-day aesthetics and try to project it forward into a foreign world without the history to back it up. As a result these designs date very quickly. To get around this, I've found that you should avoid making things up without anchoring them to a strong foundation based in world history.

The irony is that Ralph's designs still haven't dated in 20 years-- and that Lucas/Chiang are attempting to create timeless designs by emulating designs that are already way dated and short-lived by definition. So we get retro for retro's sake. Prequel designs fall firmly into the "too design-ey" end of the spectrum in my opinion.

The difference lies in that Ralph used real world functional design elements-- which inherently becomes part of history-- things end up looking a certain way because they "should". Chiang drew more heavily on past art forms and applied them to a foreign world, but didn't ground these styles on gritty real world functional considerations, even of their period. So as a result, we just get speculation that a galaxy far, far away would enjoy 50's chic for its own sake-- and spaceships that look like chrome SR-71's and air speeders that look like 50's taxies, only because he wants them to. Flying art shapes, in essence-- when these sorts of designs in history have always been fleeting and shortlived, and the first to fall out of fashion. These designs will date quickly because they're based on already dated designs, chosen without applying practical reasons on why they would be built this way. Perhaps that's the whole point... but that makes for a less believable and less engaging world. *shrug*

I took early 1950's American car design as a starting point for some of the space fighters, for chrome and sleek streamlining. For another culture in the film I drew on traditional African art stylization to get the look of their vehicles, their aesthetic.

The prequels' design weaknesses lie in that they draw bits of real Earth culture without hiding it very well, so everything looks out of place and anachronistic, especially when compared against the self-consistent visuals of the OT. Ralph drew heavily from WWII imagery-- creating compelling designs and visuals, but the viewer had a hard time picking up the design influences and putting a finger on what made it work, hence the magic. PT designs give a bit of the following impression: "Oh, a space 50's diner. Oh, a space 50's hotrod. Oh, some space French foofy thing." However, I have to say that I'm particularly fond of Darth Maul's design, and its success was that I couldn't immediately place its inspiraiton-- Chinese painted masks-- even with that being part of my own culture. A great design, because it resonates with reality without giving away why.

So basically, the Prequels (up until Episode 3, anyway) looked different because Lucas wanted it that way. And since ROTS brings everythign full circle, there's no point in arguing it anymore, is there?

Then Lucas made some art direction decisions that I don't particularly agree with, and I heavily distrust his current sense of aesthetics. =P There never really was much of argument about who was responsible and why-- the issue of contention I had was whether these were good decisions and thus, good designs. In the end, I think most of the PT vehicular designs will fade into obscurity, or at least never approach the recognizability and endearment of their predecessors. The methodology of "hey, let's grab fleeting styles from the past, take them out of context, and slap hypedrives on them" isn't an effective way to design for longevity.

-Al

[do not disturb]

as i understand the vehicle designs, in the NT the republic had a lot of resources and could build sleek looking ships like the naboo fighter. they had production capabilities as well as the money to fund it.

in the OT, the republic is dead and their resources with it. so what do they do? they make ships out of whatever is left and can get their hands on and come up with more rugged looking designed ships like the y-wing. they are after all rebels and last time i checked, rebels never have anything thats too fresh. its always some rundown POS they get working by kicking and swearing at it a lot. also as a rebel faction, they don't have time to build sleek looking ships to fight the empire and why would they? they have more important things to spend time/money on like fighting off the imperials.

as far as influences, it could be retro moving towards modern but like with everything else in life, it revolves, so it doesn't have much meaning. i.e. remember when you were a kid, your mom wore bell bottom jeans? and how you told her not to wear them outside? guess what? they made a come back 20 years later didn't they, they even made bell-bottom slacks for chicks...and they still do. i.e. fluorescent colors, we see it as some 80's eye sore(what were we thinking?) but the kids growing up now like it. i sell skateboards in my free time and all the kids in my hood are asking me for fluorescent colored decks.

[bsu legato]

Well Sundown, we'll just have to agree to disagree about the the OT versus PT design aesthetic. Just remember to squint the next time you watch Luke walk into that cantina straight out of any given western.

Getting back on topic

[Sundown]

Well Sundown, we'll just have to agree to disagree about the the OT versus PT design aesthetic. Just remember to squint the next time you watch Luke walk into that cantina straight out of any given western. 

See, again, it was never obvious to me. No swinging saloon doors, no cowboy hats, nothing that screamed Look at me! Western!-- about zero copying of style. Other than the basic theme and premise, all the visual design elements were unique or masked the inspiration.

I guess that's the difference I see between the OT and PT. The OT takes a familiar theme, mangles it and spins it until it's no longer recognizable, yet still manages to retain resonance with what we're familiar with. The PT takes those same things, then forcefully injects elements from our culture that call way too much attention to themselves. Flash over cohesion. Ah well. I have to admit I'd be curious to see what McQuarrie would have done with the same direction that Lucas gave.

Palpy does look moderately cool. How old was Ian McDiarmid when he played Palp in ROTJ? He looks just about the right age now.

-Al

[Chuey]

Palpy does look moderately cool.  How old was Ian McDiarmid when he played Palp in ROTJ?  He looks just about the right age now. 

-Al

Ian McDiarmid was born August 11, 1944. He was around 40 years old when he played Emperor Palpatine in RotJ. He is around 60 years old now for RotS.

[Californium]

The Falcon is supposed to be pretty old. Anybody know just how old?

Really, I would think that the more advanced the tech in general, the longer a given machine would last. (excepting forced obsolesence.) (Mostly because the more advanced a culture is the steeper the learning curve and new technologies occur less and less. Thus the older tech is meanwhile perfected and lasts longer...)

All the more so since the SW galaxy has clearly been jumping around in hyperspace for ages and ages.

I'd always assumed that the Falcon could have passed hands again and again for the equivalent of a century or so.

That individual planets might have armed forces or industries which buck a design trend would be a given. But that in the space of 30 years an entire galaxy would trade in all their crap for a new design aesthetic, whether or not their Spaceship X was actually going on the fritz, seems a bit silly to me.

But while i'm a fan, I'm no fanatic, so I'm probably missing some things.

[HWR MKII]

Any reference i have read always hints at the falcons design being outdated and old by the time of episode 4 ,but Han and before him Lando kept upgrading it to keep that particular ship on top. Lando had gotten it from a gamble in a sabbac game same way Han won it from him. It would have been nice to see some newer looking unmodified YT-1300 freighters in ep1 or 2 just to help ground the 2 trilogies together in a visual way.

[lord_breetai]

I read something similar in popular mechanics back in 99. it also goes on to him saying that he got the design influence for tha naboo starfighter from a 1930s earring and otherr sources . The 2 movies also had gags geared toward Lucas himself. The naboo starfighter was yellow and chrome to reflect the roadster from American Graffiti, and the open top speeder in episode 2 was also a nod to the same roadster.

Side topic sorry. Has anoyone found the THX1138 reference in episode 2 yet? lucas has put a reference to that movie in every film he has directed. not written DIRCTED

1 THX 1138 the movie

2 American Graffiti the yellow roadster had the license plate of THX138

3 SW EP4 LUKE "Prisoner transfer from cellblock 1138

4 SW EP1 The battle droid JAR JAR knocks down at the end when they shut down has a stylized 1138 on its backpack.

So where is it in EP2

Infact wasn't his naming Lucasfilm's digital audio process "THX" a kind of revenge at hollywood? Cause Hollywood never accepted THX he would make sure it's name appeared before every movie hollywood produced?

[Jolly Rogers]

Well it'd be his fault if THX wasn't accepted by Hollywood. I remember going to a THX certified theater, the screen had a tear on it, and the sound was distorted as well. This was Mann's Puente Hills theater back during the mid 1990s.

[lord_breetai]

Well it'd be his fault if THX wasn't accepted by Hollywood. I remember going to a THX certified theater, the screen had a tear on it, and the sound was distorted as well. This was Mann's Puente Hills theater back during the mid 1990s.

I ment never accepted the movie THX of course the accept the Digital process... it's used for everyting.

[Max Jenius]

I still don't much get how you can be "realistic" when designing stuff that's fantasy. So the designer of OT ships put a lot of pipes, vents and cables everywhere... they even went so far as to make up labels for these designs. I fail to see how this is "realistic" or a clear advantage in the design. It just seems like you're really reaching for reasons here Sundown. But its your artistic taste no matter which way you slice it, so agreeing to disagree seems to be the way to go here. I mean.. hell you like the design of Darth Maul and that's obviously derivative and cliche. Everyone likes Darth Maul though, even though he says like 2 things. That's as bland as it gets man.

[Uxi]

Seriously. We got your point many pages ago, Sundown. You're just beating a dead horse.

I happen to like the whole fancy in the old days utilitarian in the latter days... from the Naboo 50's ish chrome stuff to the Jedi fighters to the original TIE / X-wing / Star Destroyers, etc. It's all just a bunch of models and toys.

[Max Jenius]

Seriously.  We got your point many pages ago, Sundown.  You're just beating a dead horse.

[James Hettfield] OT GOOD! PT BAD! [/James Hettfield]

It would have been nice to see some newer looking unmodified YT-1300 freighters in ep1 or 2 just to help ground the 2 trilogies together in a visual way.

With shiny chrome covering up the realism!

[Sundown]

I still don't much get how you can be "realistic" when designing stuff that's fantasy. So the designer of OT ships put a lot of pipes, vents and cables everywhere... they even went so far as to make up labels for these designs. I fail to see how this is "realistic" or a clear advantage in the design. I mean.. hell you like the design of Darth Maul and that's obviously derivative and cliche. Everyone likes Darth Maul though, even though he says like 2 things. That's as bland as it gets man.

Bits and pieces that look like functional clutter adds to the believability and grittyness of a design. This is a staple and well accepted method amongst sci-fi designers and artists, partly pioneered by McQuarrie. And it works.

Everyone likes Darth Maul, but not for his dialogue. He's a cruddy character in so far as development and personality goes. But visual style, and execution on screen, brilliant.

Seriously. We got your point many pages ago, Sundown. You're just beating a dead horse.

*chuckles* I do admit it's hard to resist when folks keep offering counterpoints. Silly me for assuming someone talking about it again might actually expect response. At any rate, I agree to disagree. Already did several pages back, actually.

-Al

Edited January 22, 2005 by Sundown

[ComicKaze]

Look, it depends on the head designer and aesthetic of the show. Even in the original trilogy, you can see differences in ships based on faction and origin.

The rebel's over look was meant to show the rag-tag appearance of a scraped-togther Rebel fleet and the very old Millenium Falcon which had been cobbled together and modified to a great extent by both Lando and Han Solo.

The Imperials on the otherhand DO have a different look. Their ships take on an almost city-ship scheme, probably much like Coruscant is envisioned. The Star Destroyer is afterall, based on 20th century warships blown up to incredible scale, where instead of stacks of decks and towers looming over the hull, you have stacks of city-like terraces eventually leading to the command bridge (conning tower/bridge of a 20th century Destroyer) tower and shield emitters.

But hey, look at other rebel ships. Yep, the Blockade Runner is also Corellian and was even the original Falcon's design so that matches the theme but what of the Mon Calimari ships? Those have the "smooth" hulls and lack the kibble! It because they are new ships made by an alien race that just recently joined the Rebel Alliance (they were even originally designed for space exploration and not battle). Until that point, the Rebels had to steal Nebulon B Frigates to use as their flagships.

In Star Wars canon, there are literally dozens of different races and manufacturers, all who product things in different looks and aesthetics. Why says each company has to following the same trends or aging patterns?

Besides, with no friction in space, having exposed parts on many vehicles and vessels makes maintainence easier for the Rebel Alliance. They don't have a monopoly of dry-docks, contruction bays, battlestations, etc. like the Imperials do.

As the ruling insitution of it's time, the Republic had to have more clean looking, smooth surfaced craft to show the prestige of it's fleet. I mean, what would you think if the US army started to drive tanks and humvees with all the maintenance panels hanging off and with ammo packs, sensor gear, and other weapons bolted onto the side or duct-taped on? As bad and as admittedly offensive it could be, the Rebels are meant to be the insurgents or guerilla jungle fighters that drive around in beat-up Toyota's sporting rocket launchers and AK-47s.

BUT the argument can swing the other way that smooth ships contributes to more than aesthetics. The X-Wing is functions both in planetary atmosphere and in space even though it's classed as a space superiority dogfighter. Smoother panels would make it more aerodynamic - and yet the Snow Speeders all show varying amounts of kibble...and strangely, the A-Wings have super-smooth hulls in space where it doesn't matter! Again, it's because of the manufacturer.

Now, let's do the unthinkable and look to Star Trek. Star Trek's brilliant designer, Matt Jeffries insisted on the Enterprise being smooth. Yeah, it looks real boring on cheap on screen unless you add a lot of other detailing and fine airbrushing which takes work (moreso than gluing on kibble to a model). His reasoning (which eventually influnced the movies but nolonger on the newers series since TNG) was that why would you have giant Starship with parts hanging on the outside, vulnerable to attack, and difficult to reach in stressful situations? Everything should be on the inside, able to repair and replace, and protected by a thick, smooth hull (which also helps in object or weapon deflection).

Some people even view that grittyness and kibbled parts is just a short-cut method of adding detail but I have to say it works and keeps things interesting.

Edited January 22, 2005 by ComicKaze

[Chewie]

So uhm....can you ladies stop nagging each other and post more pics? Please?

[Ladic]

So uhm....can you ladies stop nagging each other and post more pics? Please?

[bsu legato]

So uhm....can you ladies stop nagging each other and post more pics? Please?

Holy crap, how about a spoiler warning next time?!

[eugimon]

wow, I knew part of the prequels was deconstructing darth vader and showing him for the sad old man, but turning him into a telemarketer is just too much. damn you lucas, you raped my childhood!

[Black Valkyrie]

[HWR MKII]

Not only a telemarketer but a telemarketer for Target. . SO what now if we hang up on him he chokes us?

[Chewie]

Have any of you seen that commercial. It's soooo great.

He's sitting there classic breathing going on, tapping hs fingers because he's bored. She walks in, brushes her butt against him and his breathing speeds up into something not unlike the dying breaths in RotJ.

It's awesome.

[bsu legato]

Enough of these shenannigans. There's a new documentary on the Official Site.

And if that isn't enough....have a taste of red hot promo imagery.

[Jolly Rogers]

So uhm....can you ladies stop nagging each other and post more pics? Please?

OMG

It all makes perfect sense now... considering who she's engaged to!!!

[CoryHolmes]

I've said it before, and now I'm gonna say it again:

Lucas and Co. definitly know how to put out teasers. Say what you will about the rest of them, but everyone has to admit that these promo pics and teasers/trailers do nothing but ratched up interest for the movies.