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HG and Robotech Debates

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Original Thread: http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=153

Thread after that one: http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=29850

Last thread: http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=30858

No one knows the exact details of the 1984 contract between Harmony Gold and Tatsunoko Productions because this contract has not been made public. However, we can infer what the contract entails from Harmony Gold's actions and inactions. I'll keep this first post updated with the most reliable information.

SDF Macross

On October 1st, 1982, Tatsunoko Productions asked for and received the worldwide (excluding Japan) film distribution and merchandising rights from Big West as compensation for their animation assistance with SDF Macross. On January 15th, 1984, Harmony Gold licensed, and later acquired, these same film distribution and merchandising rights from Tatsunoko. However, the intellectual property rights for SDF Macross still resides with Big West. What this means is that Harmony Gold can legally distribute the SDF Macross footage outside of Japan (ie: the AnimEigo and ADV Macross DVD's) and edit the footage at their discretion (ie: Robotech). However, they cannot create any new animation or movies using the SDF Macross characters and mecha because they do not have the intellectual property rights. Comic books and videogames are excluded as these fall under the category of merchandising rights.

Macross: Do You Remember Love

Harmony Gold also has the worldwide (excluding Japan) merchandising rights to Macross: Do You Remember Love. However, they do not have the film distribution rights nor the intellectual property rights to this movie. What this means is that Harmony Gold can legally license the distribution of DYRL merchandise (ie: Toynami's DYRL Super Posable toys) worldwide (excluding Japan). However, Harmony Gold cannot release DYRL on video, nor can they create any new animation or movies using the DYRL characters and mecha. Comic books and videogames are excluded as these fall under the category of merchandising rights.

On a related note, in 1988, Celebrity's Just For Kids released DYRL (as 'Macross in Clash of the Bionoids') in the USA under a license from Toho International Co. Ltd. In 1995, Best Film & Video Corp. released DYRL (as 'Superdimensional Fortress Macross') in the USA under a license from Big West. At Anime Central 2001, Robert Woodhead (of AnimEigo) was asked about DYRL and he said that nobody knows who owns the worldwide (excluding Japan) film distribution rights anymore.

Macross II, Macross Plus and Macross 7 Trash

The film distribution rights for Macross II and Macross Plus were licensed from Big West, by U.S. Renditions (1992) and Manga Entertainment (1995), for release in the USA without any involvement from Harmony Gold. Likewise, Macross 7 Trash was licensed from Big West, by Glénat (1998), for release in France without any involvement from Harmony Gold. In 2003, Tokyopop announced that they would release Macross 7 Trash in the USA under a license from Harmony Gold, however, the manga was never published and no official explanation was given.

Harmony Gold said that they were not involved with Macross II and Macross Plus because "no one was minding the store" at that time (source needed). The subsequent Tokyo District Court ruling determined that Tatsunoko Productions (and by extension Harmony Gold) did not have any copyrights to the Macross derivatives (ie: Macross II, Macross Plus), thereby rendering the "no one was minding the store" explanation moot.

The rest of the series

As for the rest of the Macross series (ie: Frontier, 7, et al), Harmony Gold only has certain rights to these. In 1999 and 2002, Harmony Gold tradedmarked the name 'Macross' in the USA, Canada, Germany, and the United Kingdom. What this means is that any series and merchandising featuring the 'Macross' trademark would have to compensate Harmony Gold for the use of that trademark in those respective countries. Harmony Gold also trademarked 'U.N. Spacy' in the USA and Canada. In the European Union, 'U.N. Spacy' was trademarked in November 2007 and is held by Yugenkaisya Suneast trading (aka Suneast Co.Ltd) from Tokyo, Japan.*

This is just my understanding of the current legal situation. It may not be 100% accurate, so any corrections are welcome.

Sources:

Harmony Gold et al v. FASA Corporation et al, 1996 WL 332689 (N.D.Ill.)

Macross 7 Trash published in France by Glénat - http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?...st&p=732684

“Fun at Acen” - http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.mac...27c03d7fffd14ff

“Tatsunoko Wins Macross Lawsuit” - http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2004-...macross-lawsuit

“Macross Lawsuit” - http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2002-...macross-lawsuit

Big West statement - http://web.archive.org/web/20020803190522/...ents/index.html

Loo, E.:”Separated at Birth”, Animerica, 2003, Vol.11, No.1, p. 47

"Tokyopop to Publish Macross 7 Trash Manga" - http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/press-rele...s-7-trash-manga

Tom Bateman states that Harmony Gold acquired DYRL merchandising rights - http://www.robotech.com/community/forum/re...mp;pagenumber=3

Canada trademark filing - http://www.ic.gc.ca/app/opic-cipo/trdmrks/...ntIndexOnPage=1

United Kingdom trademark filing - http://www.ipo.gov.uk/domestic?domesticnum=2204547

European Union trademark filing - http://oami.europa.eu/bulletin/ctm/2005/20...1/003853926.htm

United States, Germany and Spain trademark filing - These websites do not allow direct linking and must be searched manually.

*A huge thanks to Bri for getting the trademark information!

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Last one ended up larger the previous.

Last post:

Oh yes, it's SOOO insulting that someone thinks enough of a work to include it as part of what they're doing... :rolleyes:

I rarely get this direct, but you remind me of a three-year old: "Johnny's icky! I don't want Johnny playing with the same toys as me!"

The only difference between you (and more than a few posters here) and MEMO and Pizza is which side of the fence you're on.

Well it's quite obvious as to which side of the fence you're on LOL

you actually liked that script, so that tells me A LOT right there.

I ask myself why is this person being such an ass? Then I realize

oh he's a TSC fan, now it all makes sense! TSC fans are all rude, ignorant

and just plain stupid, not to mention the first to be in line when it comes to drinking that kool-aid!

It seems you've only come here to defend robotech, without doing your research either. All these people, despite your assinine attitude, have tried to be helpful and you still act like a jerk! Why is that? God forbid anyone have a different opinion than yours! Some here don't like robotech okay, so get over it, this isnt a robotech site it's a macross site! You chose to come here, so suck it up and stop being a wuss. Stop trying to pick fights and just respect the fact that robotech isnt the greatest thing ever.

I don't care if this post of mine gets me on your hit list, I am just sick of your attitude it's totally uncalled for.

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Well, that's certainly one way to quiet things down in this thread... :lol:

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Damn, HP got here before me. :(

So you're comparing Seto, who I've seen make nothing but articulate, well-thought out posts (that actually have a basis in reality) to the "apeface" garbage posted by Pizza or to Memo and his fascist state?

That protoculture must be some primo stuff. Can I have some?

People here have been fairly tolerant of your condescending, insulting attitude towards anyone who doesn't agree with you, and they've even taken the time to answer any questions you've had, which is far better treatment than you'll find at robotech.com for trying to post factual information. Yet you still feel the need to fling insults and wild accusations at anyone who doesn't think Robotech is God's gift to mankind and obsessively defend it against any and all perceived threats.

Did you forget this is a Macross site again?

What an ingrate.

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Reading the last few pages of the old thread makes me wonder if there is a difference between backgrounds of current RT and Macross fans. I get the impression that many Macross fans are also anime fans. RT is to anime is what Milli Vanilli is to music, popular in it's day but somewhat of an embarrassment in hindsight. It was part of the history of bringing anime to the west but it's also an example of how not to treat source material with respect.

In contrast, thinking of the RT fans I know personally, most are Sci-fi fans with interests in RPGs, model building and miniature gaming, but non of them is a strong anime fan. Franchises like Battletech, Warhammer 40k and Transformers are popular. These examples are amalgamations of existing designs and ideas while fan fiction is encouraged. Wonder if this causes the difference in opinion on source material. One side is used to incorporate other series designs/ideas freely and sees no harm in it while the other side wants it's material as authentic as possible.

Edited by Bri

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So you're comparing Seto, who I've seen make nothing but articulate, well-thought out posts (that actually have a basis in reality) to the "apeface" garbage posted by Pizza or to Memo and his fascist state?

Seto really DOES seem to become something of a lightning rod for RT fans. Sure, he's blunt, but he's just as blunt about, say, Macross 7, and I don't see the Mac7 fans getting in his face about it.

Leaves me kinda confused...

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Wait - there were more parts to the Macross Saga before Southern Cross and the New Generation in general appeared - or is this the Japanese version of Robotech with the advanced Invid species - you know, the one where they find the SDF-1 on some swamp but Rick Hunter is not there for some reason?

Also - I find it quite indicative of bias that the first post talks about only the show rights but doesn't address the issue of the original basis of the shows - namely the Robotech novels, which from what I heard were translated into Japanese by Ohnogi and are know as the "Ohnogi novels" in Japan.

It's no wonder this is so confusing - by using the name "Macross" in all their shows, it's hard to distinguish the Japanese instalments of Robotech vs. the original ones based on Jack McKiny's novels.

In any case, in the final analysis it doesn't really matter. Robotech vs. Macross? Why? It's all the same thing. I think what needs to happen is that people just have to stop fighting this silly fight and enjoy Robotech AND Macross together. I mean - the footage is the same, isn't it? So what if there's some minor translation differences. I don't blame the Japanese for having to change some aspects of the original dialogue that Carl Macek and Tommy Yune wrote based on the McKinney novels. I mean - heck - when Beast Wars Transformers moved to Canada it got called "Beasties" because in Canada they couldn't use the word "war." So - ok - maybe in Japan there are also some cultural differences that made them change certain aspects of Robotech. Fine.

But why do Macross purists insist on treating a foriegn translation of the great American epic novels Robotech as if it were better? There is no better or worse - it's just a matter of opinion. Ultimately both shows have the same SDF-1 which is the real issue we need to be talking about, because there's no way that thing can be 1.200 meters in length.

First of all, Americans don't use meters and Mckinny's original mecha designs which were drawn by his wife Gina didn't use meters. This is truly a Spinal Tap moment. You remember? 18' vs. 18'' ? Well - this is similar. I appreciate the notion that around the world they use meters and so this was introduced - but I'm curious - what was the original design parameter?

Finally - WHY do Macross fans INSIST on talking about a TOTALLY SEPERATE MOVIE - Namely Attack of the Bionards - as if it had ANYTHING to do with Robotech ?

I mean - Attack of the Bionards was just some cheap fourth rate rip off of the original Robotech Macross saga. It was so obvious the Japanese were just trying to one up an American tv show - and to this day there are Macross Purists who claim that the mecha designs there are the "definitive" designs for the Macross Saga...

How can this be when they are two completely different shows?

You guys just keep repeating the rude and insulting Macross purist line and bashing Robotech fans as if they were the cause of AIDS.

Pete

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Cripes, VFTF1, have the Obsequious Toady of Harmony Gold badge...

You're earned it. ^_^

post-939-1256419259_thumb.png

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In contrast, thinking of the RT fans I know personally, most are Sci-fi fans with interests in RPGs, model building and miniature gaming, but non of them is a strong anime fan. Franchises like Battletech, Warhammer 40k and Transformers are popular. These examples are amalgamations of existing designs and ideas and fan fiction is encouraged. Wonder if this causes the difference in opinion on source material. One side is used to incorporate other series designs/ideas freely and sees no harm in it while the other side wants it's material as authentic as possible.

Up to now I thought it was just part of HG's strategy to spread the franchise's influence beyond the cartoon realm to get more money from it. They did a good job making sure Robotech was a multimedia powerhouse at the time because of how much was out there. Novels, comics, RPG, etc., that opens up a lot of business opportunities for them. To the fans, it gives the franchise many of the strengths and weaknesses of those types of media, eventually giving the illusion that the universe behind it is vast and strong. But look at the quality of some of those offerings over the years. If HG really cared for some of these ventures why did they turn out to be mediocre to downright crappy?

Of course, even that is open to interpretation, which it thrives on.

Edited by Einherjar

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Up to now I thought it was just part of HG's strategy to spread the franchise's influence beyond the cartoon realm to get more money from it. They did a good job making sure Robotech was a multimedia powerhouse at the time because of how much was out there. Novels, comics, RPG, etc., that opens up a lot of business opportunities for them. To the fans, it gives the franchise many of the strengths and weaknesses of those types of media, eventually giving the illusion that the universe behind it is vast and strong. But look at the quality of some of those offerings over the years. If HG really cared for some of these ventures why did they turn out to be mediocre to downright crappy?

At the same time, look at how long it took some of that stuff to get out there. The comics were out there first, as the the series was still running. But it really took forever for the toys to reach the shelves. I was getting cheap Arii and Imai Macross models before the "Macross Saga" had even finished, and I think the first official Robotech toys I got were on Christmas 1985..because they simply weren't around before then (they weren't very good, either. Destroids painted wonky colors, "Joke Machine" egg Valks, and an SDF-1 with all the missiles taken out). The novels didn't start until a few years later. During 1985 and '86, it felt like a real drought. Luckily, Little Tokyo was about a twenty-minute drive from my house, so I could get more models (the toys were more than my parents were willing to spend), and I liked getting stuff that said "Macross" instead of "Robotech." But if they'd had GOOD toys, I would've bought 'em.

(And yes, I did get a bunch of the "Robotech Defender" model kits. But the early ones were tough, because the paint schemes and decal application instructions were all made up by Revell. Later, they got better, but there was less guesswork involved if I got the Japanese ones. Plus, for a while, there was a toy store near my house that had a TON of Macross, Orguss, and Dorvack kits for, like, $2.50 each. So they were cheaper than the American ones, too.)

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So, Seto, you're telling me basically that the mods can arbitrarily ban whoever they want. Does that mean Steve Yune and HG can just claim that they weren't "minding the store" when they lose all of their rational fans due to banning?

dr vinnie

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>snip<

EPIC TROLL IS EPIC. SK would be proud my good man.sotx1g.gif

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Damn, HP got here before me. :(

So you're comparing Seto, who I've seen make nothing but articulate, well-thought out posts (that actually have a basis in reality) to the "apeface" garbage posted by Pizza or to Memo and his fascist state?

That protoculture must be some primo stuff. Can I have some?

People here have been fairly tolerant of your condescending, insulting attitude towards anyone who doesn't agree with you, and they've even taken the time to answer any questions you've had, which is far better treatment than you'll find at robotech.com for trying to post factual information. Yet you still feel the need to fling insults and wild accusations at anyone who doesn't think Robotech is God's gift to mankind and obsessively defend it against any and all perceived threats.

Did you forget this is a Macross site again?

What an ingrate.

There is a middle ground between "God's gift" (which I have NEVER claimed) and "worthless trash" (claimed by Seto, you, etc). Robotech isn't perfect, but it isn't worthless either.

I'm a fan of Robotech, and I have nothing to be ashamed of. I refuse to allow myself to be segregated to the back of the fan "bus", by you, by Seto, or by anyone else. I've "attacked" NO ONE who hasn't attacked me and/or my fandom first.

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So why do you still come to a MACROSS site then? I started off being a huge Robotech fan but in all honesty I only cared for the Macross Saga. After watching Macross Plus when it first came out I went in search of more Macross material and learned the truth. I have since converted fully over to Macross. Robotech still means something to mean but it is utter trash compared to Macross. If you haven't actually seen most of the other Macross material you should and then see how well Robotech stands up. But if you are tired of how we feel towards Robotech or you feel that you are constantly being fired upon then this isn't the site for you. Go back to your Robotech sites, which I have lurked at and I am glad I never joined.

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There is a middle ground between "God's gift" (which I have NEVER claimed) and "worthless trash" (claimed by Seto, you, etc). Robotech isn't perfect, but it isn't worthless either.

I'm a fan of Robotech, and I have nothing to be ashamed of. I refuse to allow myself to be segregated to the back of the fan "bus", by you, by Seto, or by anyone else. I've "attacked" NO ONE who hasn't attacked me and/or my fandom first.

"Back of the fan 'bus'"...? Are you comparing yourself to Rosa Parks? :blink:

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There is a middle ground between "God's gift" (which I have NEVER claimed) and "worthless trash" (claimed by Seto, you, etc). Robotech isn't perfect, but it isn't worthless either.

I'm a fan of Robotech, and I have nothing to be ashamed of. I refuse to allow myself to be segregated to the back of the fan "bus", by you, by Seto, or by anyone else. I've "attacked" NO ONE who hasn't attacked me and/or my fandom first.

You're such a card....

Listen, you may love robotech and that's peachy and all but is it really worth defending? Is anything for that matter? It just seems to me you can't stand the fact that some hate it and do bash it. Who cares? Let them bash it, is it hurting you? It shouldn't, you're a big boy right?

And with all do respect... you came here stirring up drama. You attacked us first, and now that we're biting back you're backing yourself into your little corner trying to play the victim.

If you would of been respectful and asked nicely instead of jumping the gun, you wouldn't be in this mess right now.

"Back of the fan 'bus'"...? Are you comparing yourself to Rosa Parks? :blink:
*face palms* dear lord.... Edited by HappyPenguins

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There is a middle ground between "God's gift" (which I have NEVER claimed) and "worthless trash" (claimed by Seto, you, etc). Robotech isn't perfect, but it isn't worthless either.

I'm a fan of Robotech, and I have nothing to be ashamed of. I refuse to allow myself to be segregated to the back of the fan "bus", by you, by Seto, or by anyone else. I've "attacked" NO ONE who hasn't attacked me and/or my fandom first.

To each his own then. Pardon me while I ignore you from now on, since you're really here for a personal agenda. And if you have any questions about Macross Saga related info, google it.

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Wait - there were more parts to the Macross Saga before Southern Cross and the New Generation in general appeared - or is this the Japanese version of Robotech with the advanced Invid species - you know, the one where they find the SDF-1 on some swamp but Rick Hunter is not there for some reason?

Also - I find it quite indicative of bias that the first post talks about only the show rights but doesn't address the issue of the original basis of the shows - namely the Robotech novels, which from what I heard were translated into Japanese by Ohnogi and are know as the "Ohnogi novels" in Japan.

It's no wonder this is so confusing - by using the name "Macross" in all their shows, it's hard to distinguish the Japanese instalments of Robotech vs. the original ones based on Jack McKiny's novels.

In any case, in the final analysis it doesn't really matter. Robotech vs. Macross? Why? It's all the same thing. I think what needs to happen is that people just have to stop fighting this silly fight and enjoy Robotech AND Macross together. I mean - the footage is the same, isn't it? So what if there's some minor translation differences. I don't blame the Japanese for having to change some aspects of the original dialogue that Carl Macek and Tommy Yune wrote based on the McKinney novels. I mean - heck - when Beast Wars Transformers moved to Canada it got called "Beasties" because in Canada they couldn't use the word "war." So - ok - maybe in Japan there are also some cultural differences that made them change certain aspects of Robotech. Fine.

But why do Macross purists insist on treating a foriegn translation of the great American epic novels Robotech as if it were better? There is no better or worse - it's just a matter of opinion. Ultimately both shows have the same SDF-1 which is the real issue we need to be talking about, because there's no way that thing can be 1.200 meters in length.

First of all, Americans don't use meters and Mckinny's original mecha designs which were drawn by his wife Gina didn't use meters. This is truly a Spinal Tap moment. You remember? 18' vs. 18'' ? Well - this is similar. I appreciate the notion that around the world they use meters and so this was introduced - but I'm curious - what was the original design parameter?

Finally - WHY do Macross fans INSIST on talking about a TOTALLY SEPERATE MOVIE - Namely Attack of the Bionards - as if it had ANYTHING to do with Robotech ?

I mean - Attack of the Bionards was just some cheap fourth rate rip off of the original Robotech Macross saga. It was so obvious the Japanese were just trying to one up an American tv show - and to this day there are Macross Purists who claim that the mecha designs there are the "definitive" designs for the Macross Saga...

How can this be when they are two completely different shows?

You guys just keep repeating the rude and insulting Macross purist line and bashing Robotech fans as if they were the cause of AIDS.

Pete

Could you post quick summaries of your posts at the start or the finish of your latest Nordic Saga?? ;):p :P

Taksraven

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"Back of the fan 'bus'"...? Are you comparing yourself to Rosa Parks? :blink:

Yeah dude, can't you tell, we are a bunch of racists here! Its gonna be a race to see who is first to call somebody else here Hitler for disagreeing with their views.

Taksraven

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I'm a fan of Robotech, and I have nothing to be ashamed of. I refuse to allow myself to be segregated to the back of the fan "bus", by you, by Seto, or by anyone else. I've "attacked" NO ONE who hasn't attacked me and/or my fandom first.

Look man, I would never send you to the back of the bus for being a diehard RT fan. I might send you to the bottom of the barrel though. B))

Taksraven

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So you're comparing Seto, who I've seen make nothing but articulate, well-thought out posts (that actually have a basis in reality) to the "apeface" garbage posted by Pizza or to Memo and his fascist state?

Well, let's give Pizza a little credit... he's at least responding somewhat favorably to the idea of a cessation of hostilities, so that's progress towards at least a semblance of peace.

Seto really DOES seem to become something of a lightning rod for RT fans. Sure, he's blunt, but he's just as blunt about, say, Macross 7, and I don't see the Mac7 fans getting in his face about it.

I've always felt that it was better to be blunt and honest and risk offending someone than to attempt to soften the blow with flowery language or lying to spare their feelings.

To this end, I'd like to share one of my very favorite quotes:

Let me tell you how it is going to be.

I am free to write what I want, when I want. And you have to come to me to read me.

This is not the same deal as picking up a newspaper for the sports and the TV listings and getting a piece of me too.

You actually have to sit down and poke your feedsite reader and come to me.

And I will tell you things that will make you laugh and I will tell you things that make you uncomfortable and I will tell you things that will make you really farting angry and I will tell you things that no one else is telling you.

What I won’t do is bullshit you.

I guess part of the reason I'm a lightning rod for hostile Robotech fans is because I've made it no secret that I disapprove of what Harmony Gold has done to the Robotech universe, and how they've manged the franchise. Since the various feuds have driven away a lot of the people who were extremely devoted to the franchise and/or who approved of RTSC, they naturally don't take what I have to say very well. They seldom stop to look at it in the context of someone who wants to see Robotech do something different and original, beyond the scope of the "original 85", they just look at it as bashing.

But look at the quality of some of those offerings over the years. If HG really cared for some of these ventures why did they turn out to be mediocre to downright crappy?

Of course, even that is open to interpretation, which it thrives on.

Actually, of late Harmony Gold has actually been pretty open about why so many of their licensed products from the late 80's and the 90's were of such poor quality. Kevin McKeever has admitted on several occasions that Harmony Gold just issued licenses and never really bothered to exercise much in the way of oversight over any of the products created by their licensees during that period.

So, Seto, you're telling me basically that the mods can arbitrarily ban whoever they want. Does that mean Steve Yune and HG can just claim that they weren't "minding the store" when they lose all of their rational fans due to banning?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm telling you. The mods can ban anyone they want so long as they come up with a reason (however obviously fabricated or weak) to justify it. Then they hand it all off to Steve to sort out. Since Steve's not paying attention, and the site's best contributors are all getting the boot, I guess they might try the "nobody was minding the store" excuse again.

Yeah dude, can't you tell, we are a bunch of racists here! Its gonna be a race to see who is first to call somebody else here Hitler for disagreeing with their views.

Hey! I take offense to that. I've had the position of the supreme evil in the Robotech fanbase sewn up for years!

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Hey! I take offense to that. I've had the position of the supreme evil in the Robotech fanbase sewn up for years!

*gasp* You...you're Hitler, aren't you!

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"Back of the fan 'bus'"...? Are you comparing yourself to Rosa Parks? :blink:

I'm sure he's on some s[h]ort of bus.

He shows up, starts bitching about Macross fans, and wanting a established community to change its behavior and then gets his panties in a twist when people throw popcorn and laugh at him. Makes me question his real motives at this point.

Edited by ShadowValkyrie

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I'm sure he's on some s[h]ort of bus.

He shows up, starts bitching about Macross fans, and wanting a established community to change its behavior and then gets his panties in a twist people throw popcorn and laugh at him. Makes me question his real motives at this point.

Umm...I'd still like to think that his motives were pure and he was just shocked by the vehemence with which some of us rip into RT...but the hostility he's shown in return make me a little sorry that I was defending him.

It's like showing up at a Bill O'Reilly forum, start posting about how much you like Keith Olbermann, and get pissed off because everyone starts attacking you.

To go by what he told me, he really didn't KNOW that there was a Macross/Robotech divide, but it's been a day or two...he shold've learned by now.

Add to that the twaddle about making him sit in the back of the bus, and...well...what can one say to that? It's patent nonsense; nobody is stifling him, nobody is banning him, nobody is oppressing him. We're arguing with him, sure, but hell, it's a MACROSS site. We (generally) like Macross. We (generally) don't like like Robotech.

If he's not even going to consider where he is and what the ground rules are, and just argue that we're turning him into a second-class citizen, well...again, what can one say? All it's going to do is build up enmity and resentment, for him AND for us. And what's the point of that?

Edited by Gubaba

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If he's not even going to consider where he is and what the ground rules are, and just argue that we're turning him into a second-class citizen, well...again, what can one say? All it's going to do is build up enmity and resentment, for him AND for us. And what's the point of that?

Sounds like another one man crusade to prove Macross Purists are in the wrong again.

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(Reposted from the previous thread)

Which of these will come first?

a. Robotech: Shadow Rising

b. Robotech: The Live-Action Movie

c. Duke Nukem Forever

d. a Guns N' Roses reunion

e. North Korea renouncing its Communist rule and merging with South Korea to become one nation again

f. Halley's Comet

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*gasp* You...you're Hitler, aren't you!

:lol:

He shows up, starts bitching about Macross fans, and wanting a established community to change its behavior and then gets his panties in a twist people throw popcorn and laugh at him. Makes me question his real motives at this point.

You're not alone... when he came over here telling us we were out of line for criticizing Robotech and its fans, and then demanded the entire community change to accommodate his wishes, it raised a LOT of eyebrows.

Umm...I'd still like to think that his motives were pure and he was just shocked by the vehemence with which some of us rip into RT...but the hostility he's shown in return make me a little sorry that I was defending him.

It must be nice to be able to be that optimistic. I've long since accepted that genuine coincidences are fairly rare things in this life. For a good while now, I've suspected he either always intended to come here and start a fight, or that whatever friend recommended MacrossWorld to him did so with the intention of putting him on the losing end of a fight.

Add to that the twaddle about making him sit in the back of the bus, and...well...what can one say to that? It's patent nonsense; nobody is stifling him, nobody is banning him, nobody is oppressing him. We're arguing with him, sure, but hell, it's a MACROSS site. We (generally) like Macross. We (generally) don't like like Robotech.

Actually, I think that's probably a function of his poor (or nonexistent) understanding of the divide between Macross and Robotech. He doesn't understand the reasons for the divide, so he doesn't see the need to differentiate between the two, and thus doesn't understand why we don't generally want Robotech over here.

If you really wanted to get down to the root of that particular problem, the cause is probably Harmony Gold's frequent attempts to portray Macross as having little-to-no importance except as a part of Robotech.

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(Reposted from the previous thread)

Which of these will come first?

a. Robotech: Shadow Rising

b. Robotech: The Live-Action Movie

c. Duke Nukem Forever

d. a Guns N' Roses reunion

e. North Korea renouncing its Communist rule and merging with South Korea to become one nation again

f. Halley's Comet

g. The Second Coming of Christ

h. The Sun nears the end of its lifecycle and expands to such a large size that it engulfs Earth....

Taksraven

Edited by taksraven

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Its gonna be a race to see who is first to call somebody else here Hitler for disagreeing with their views.

What is it with you guys and Charly Chaplin, huh? I mean - come on! It was just a COMEDY! And Chaplin did other work. But then again, leave it to Macross purists to be so wild and wierd that they fling mud at people who actually like Robotech and condemn America's greatest comedian for a movie.

I'm a fan of Robotech, and I have nothing to be ashamed of. I refuse to allow myself to be segregated to the back of the fan "bus",

Personally, I always prefered being behind a girl's fanny - but don't let yourself be drawn into this crude analogy Gubaba is making; because he's obviously doing it to distract from the merit of your post, which has nothing to do with girl's butts and whether a person likes girl's fannies or prefers her boobs. That's just Gubaba's way of attracting attention to himself. Sometimes it's funny.

However - it's certainly NOT funny when we still have the serious matter of the length of the SDF-1 to consider.

Add to that the twaddle about making him sit in the back of the bus, and...well...what can one say to that? It's patent nonsense; nobody is stifling him, nobody is banning him, nobody is oppressing him. We're arguing with him, sure, but hell, it's a MACROSS site. We (generally) like Macross. We (generally) don't like like Robotech.

More Gubaba nonesense. Suddenly it's no longer about girl's fannies but about the "back of the bus." How we went from the back of the fanny to the back of the bus - I don't know. But then again - this is from the guy who keeps insisting that Ohnogi novels don't exist even though he purports to have translated two of them - and conveniently there's no Rick Hunter, Lisa Hayes or RDF in them... yeaaaah.... and I'm translating the bible into swahili and leaving out God!

You're not alone... when he came over here telling us we were out of line for criticizing Robotech and its fans, and then demanded the entire community change to accommodate his wishes, it raised a LOT of eyebrows.

So - Mr. "Seto always argues using only facts" - how do you know all of the members of Macross world HAVE eyebrows? I do, of course, but some people don't - why don't you reference THAT before making ad hoc claims that eyebrows are being raised when you have NO IDEA if all people here even have them.

Seto's reasoning in a nutshell: "facts are what I think needs to happen to support my Macross purist views."

Or maybe you can post a link to definitive proof that everyone here has eyebrows?

If he's not even going to consider where he is and what the ground rules are, and just argue that we're turning him into a second-class citizen, well...again, what can one say? All it's going to do is build up enmity and resentment, for him AND for us. And what's the point of that?

Um - No. The point of that is to figure out what the length of the SDF-1 is - the key issue which you and others keep ignoring. The issue that brought him to this thread in the first place.

But instead of discussing that important topic - you keep trying to pick a fight with him while pretending to send him private messages filled with friendly info.

But that's Gubaba for you - always talking out of two side of his mouth - and he freely admits it what with his "english and Japanese skills."

Well, let's give Pizza a little credit... he's at least responding somewhat favorably to the idea of a cessation of hostilities, so that's progress towards at least a semblance of peace.

The only hostility is the hostility you guys have towards Robotech and Pizza - whether it's Pizza Hut OR DOMINOS.

Personally - I prefer Papa Johns.

But I'm sure you'll tell me that in the "original Macross" (whatever that is), there is no Papa Johns and only Robotech wankers like Papa John's pizza.

Why can't we stop fighting about stupid stuff?

Lisa or Misa? It's just ONE LETTER - big deal! SAME person!

Rick or Hikaru - both have an R in the name - SAME person!

RDF or UN Spacey - neither of them share any letters in common which is a sort of oppositional corelation - SAME institution.

You guys like to pretend Macross is so awesome - but whatever is awesome there came from Robotech.

As for the Yamato valkyrie - the prototypes were stolen from Toynami and swiped for cheap Chinese knockoffs compelling HG to realese them while Yamato got the good stuff.

And of course screwed up the flawless quality HG dreamed up.

Sheesh.

Pete

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You know. I'v been lurking here for a awhile reading. And I wanted to give Capt Christopher Donovan benifit of the doubt. I mean Gubaba tried to help him out, and many many more but 'am calling shenanigans on him and also a possible troll. I mean if I were to go to RT right now and pull the stuff he has done here, well I'd be banned by MEMO or someone eles for disrupting the flow of conversation or being a troll myself. We have been more then tolorate to him.He hasn't been banned or anything, Yet he acts like were oppressing him.I'm sorry shenaigans. :mellow:

Edited by SkullLeaderVF-X

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Or maybe you can post a link to definitive proof that everyone here has eyebrows?

THAT, I can do. Check out this guy:

post-939-1256448025_thumb.jpg

This guy is like the Carl Macek of Japan. He's the one who (along with Hiroshi Ohnogi and some dude named Hal) adapted Robotech into Macross. As such, all Lying Macross Purists revere and despise him in equal measure. But we ALL strive to emulate him. Which is why we all wear bushy fake eyebrows.

Personally, I always prefered being behind a girl's fanny - but don't let yourself be drawn into this crude analogy Gubaba is making; because he's obviously doing it to distract from the merit of your post, which has nothing to do with girl's butts and whether a person likes girl's fannies or prefers her boobs. That's just Gubaba's way of attracting attention to himself. Sometimes it's funny.

However - it's certainly NOT funny when we still have the serious matter of the length of the SDF-1 to consider.

More Gubaba nonesense. Suddenly it's no longer about girl's fannies but about the "back of the bus." How we went from the back of the fanny to the back of the bus - I don't know. But then again - this is from the guy who keeps insisting that Ohnogi novels don't exist even though he purports to have translated two of them - and conveniently there's no Rick Hunter, Lisa Hayes or RDF in them... yeaaaah.... and I'm translating the bible into swahili and leaving out God!

Um - No. The point of that is to figure out what the length of the SDF-1 is - the key issue which you and others keep ignoring. The issue that brought him to this thread in the first place.

But instead of discussing that important topic - you keep trying to pick a fight with him while pretending to send him private messages filled with friendly info.

But that's Gubaba for you - always talking out of two side of his mouth - and he freely admits it what with his "english and Japanese skills."

The only hostility is the hostility you guys have towards Robotech and Pizza - whether it's Pizza Hut OR DOMINOS.

Personally - I prefer Papa Johns.

But I'm sure you'll tell me that in the "original Macross" (whatever that is), there is no Papa Johns and only Robotech wankers like Papa John's pizza.

Why can't we stop fighting about stupid stuff?

Lisa or Misa? It's just ONE LETTER - big deal! SAME person!

Rick or Hikaru - both have an R in the name - SAME person!

RDF or UN Spacey - neither of them share any letters in common which is a sort of oppositional corelation - SAME institution.

You guys like to pretend Macross is so awesome - but whatever is awesome there came from Robotech.

Um...I thank you from the bottom of my heart for all the great research you've done. You remind me of myself when I was first starting out as a Robotech/Macross fan. The reason I haven't been online these past few days is because I had the flu and also had to do a lot of work. My time is my own, so if I don't want to post on Macross World, that's my business.

As for these Ohnogi novels and translations, well, I have a bad memory and make mistakes. There were never intended to be taken seriously. I never mentioned that before because I just made that up I figured it was obvious. Not only that, but I myself was misled by internet rumors, so I thought it was all true, too. So I'm sorry that you thought they were real.

Now, that clears up everything, right? So lets all forget about this and move on like nothing happened.

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Anyone got a more specific link to the podcast, or was it not related to the discussion here?

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You're not alone... when he came over here telling us we were out of line for criticizing Robotech and its fans, and then demanded the entire community change to accommodate his wishes, it raised a LOT of eyebrows.

I guess I don't get the thought process behind it. If a person lurked around for even a few hours, back read the original thread, they would have gotten the vibe of the community. If someone did that they would know if they could feel comfortable here or not. Besides, if he was here for tech-chit-chat why bring Robotech vs Macross fandom into the conversation at all and then ask the tech question more or less as an after thought.

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