Gubaba Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 The ratings showed are not TV share percentages, but numbers taken from the various episodes polls presented here on MW. Whoops! Guess I should've left it in the News Thread, huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiley424 Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 (edited) So I just did a session with episode 24 and 25. I found the series and ending to be solid and satisfying overall. I'd rank Macross Frontier second behind SDF:M/DYRL as my favorite series . Loved all the action and nods to Mac+ and SDF:M/DYRL. Macross Attack! Kakizaki lives!! Alto/Klan and Alto/Brera fighting back2back a la Max & Milia!!! Ranka singing Ai Oboete Imasuka brought a big grin to my face. I never get tired of that song!!!! They did lay it on a bit thick with explaining everything in regards to Grace's plan, seemed a bit rushed and convenient IMHO. Anytime I watch/read anime and sci-fi, I suspend all disbelief and let myself become engrossed in the world created for me by the author/creator. It never got TOO ridiculous for me not to go along with it. At first I was disappointed to see no resolution of the Alto - Ranka - Sheryl triangle, but after watching the end again it fits the show and is a good ending. It was a great ride while it lasted and I am sad to see Macross Frontier end. Thank you Kawamori-San for a job well done. I feel like watching SDF:M now to see how they compare in my eyes. Edited October 1, 2008 by Smiley424 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VF-25S Full Armour Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 (edited) Now that I have seen the episode with subs and some days have past I have increased my liking of the episode alot. I'm still disappointed so much wasn't explained and a bit to much Anime Magic to explain some other stuff. To me most macross series walk that thin line of believability vs utter NO WAY. This episode went over the line for me in a few spots but with the subs I didnt focus as much on that stuff. I give it a positive rating but not the OMFG positive I was hoping for Fingers crossed the movie announcement is a story continuation and not a upgraded clip show!!! True. A lot of what we see in macross still seems magical to our current science, and let's just say there are occasions where believability is stretched to near breaking point for me. But as the saying goes, the magic of today is the science of tomorrow. Back in the earlier 20th century, when Albert Einstein created his theory of relativity based on his postulate that light appears to be moving at the same speed no matter what frame of reference you're in, he figured that since speed of light = c must be constant, time must contort to make sense of the universe. He was supposed to get 2 instead of just 1 Nobel prizes (he got one for explaining the quantized nature of photons) but at the time, the idea of fluid time was just too incredible. All this inability to accept a fundamental fact of the universe was due to the unspoken belief in classical Newtonian mechanics that time is absolute and the same for a ll frames of reference. These days, fast moving objects such as orbiting satellites prove time and time again with their atomic clocks that the following: Tperceived = Tonboard / (1 - (v/c)^2)^0.5 is very valid in our universe. Basically, the fast moving object is travelling into the future, since its time passes more sloly than ours whilst it is traveling. I'm not saying that the "science" in macross is all valid, its just to remind ourselves that our understanding of the universe is still very limited and we should keep our eyes and minds open. edit:typo Edited October 1, 2008 by VF-25S Full Armour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Focker Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 (edited) I had wanted to do a Top5 scenes from this final episode but quickly found out that it wouldn't be doing justice to the many awesome scenes packed into this finale. Still, there were some that stood out for emotional impact, where dialogue, music, and imagery simply came together into a potent cocktail. So in chronological order: PART 1 + Brera: Scatter to the ends of the galaxy! This has got to be the coolest pose with which to dispatch an adversary. Brera's gestures are mirrored by his gun pod as well as by the dialogue + Alto's death. A poignant scene that remains haunting even after you've found out Alto survived + Sheryl: Alto!!! Ok, so this was actually only shown at the end of ep24. But you got to admit, this heartbreaking scream was probably still echoing in your mind when you sat to watch the finale. We see a lot of primal screams in anime, but rarely one that is both beautiful and heart-wrenching at the same time. Northern Cross which cut in right after as the ED, underlined the tragedy: Our desperate meetings were always painful...I loved as if it was war...Because there will be no meaning if you are gone...Crucified by fate, the Northern Star burns + Battle Galaxy unleashes the terror of the Ghost V9's, launching wave after wave like spent rifle cartridges. The V9's make their presence immediately felt and punctuating it with a classic Kakikaze death. The pilot's curse lives! + A graceful ballet of symmetry and gesture, worthy of an accomplished Kabuki actor, and a deserved nod to M+ + Alto: Sheryl, lend me your strength. And Sheryl delivers in spades. From the conceited, self-absorbed diva that arrived in Frontier, who nearly everyone on the forum thought was a bitch, who would have thought that Sheryl, except for wanting Alto, would turn out to be possibly the most selfless and generous soul on Frontier? Ailing and at the point of exhaustion, Sheryl does what she does best: giving her all. + Luca: Now, I absolve you of your yokes. The strength which once held Macross city in fear. Judah system, release! Tough words from a wimpy kid, but gotta give credit for eloquence. + Amidst the frenetic action pulsing with the energy of Northern Cross, a touching moment as Klan takes aim. + Grace: The super-dimensional lifeform Vajra! A majestic sight that is terrible to behold. With one of the most spot on BGMs, the scene of the Vajra Queen emerging inspires awe and fear in equal measure. Easily double the size of Battle Galaxy and with regal wings that span the monitor, the Queen unfurls with a palpable dread that literally resonates throughout the galaxy. + The Macross city skyline- iconic even after 25 years. to be continued Edited October 1, 2008 by Major Focker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 Just wondering what happened to Battle Galaxy? I don't think we actually see it being destroyed, do we? Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedWolf Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 Just wondering what happened to Battle Galaxy? I don't think we actually see it being destroyed, do we? Graham Do we have to ask what happens to something hit by a Macross sized Machida Punch? Better question is where is the rest of Galaxy fleet? I only count 2 Dulfims and 2 Kaitos excorts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergorn Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 You know if I have one regret about this finale... is that we never seen the Battle Frontier and the Battle Galaxy transforms -Sergorn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedWolf Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 (edited) You know if I have one regret about this finale... is that we never seen the Battle Frontier and the Battle Galaxy transforms -Sergorn SK: You guys were complaining how long it took for Battle 7 to transform. We did see Battle Frontier in mid transfomation. If Galaxy fleet comes back for the movie they can have a new Battle Galaxy. Macross Dynamite 7 has shown fleets have the capacity to build an NMC. Edited October 1, 2008 by RedWolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sucker4meltrans Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 You know if I have one regret about this finale... is that we never seen the Battle Frontier and the Battle Galaxy transforms -Sergorn just watch any episode of M7 and pretend. lots of NMC transformation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Togo Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 + Alto's death. A poignant scene that remains haunting even after you've found out Alto survived I'm not sure it was ever poignant or haunting, I'm don't think anyone thought he really was dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Focker Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 (edited) ...continued PART 2 + Brera: Sing, Ranka. Sorrow, pain, joy. Let all your emotions ride on your song...This time, I will stop this war. This will be our atonement. I didn't particularly like Your Sound when it was first aired, but here, the acoustic instrumental served as the perfect backdrop to Brera's moment of truth. The clarity of the strings and clear punctuations of the piano echo Brera's regained lucidity and resolve for redemption. + Cheeky SK slipped this right under our noses. We've seen it so many times in the OP we took it for granted. A symbolic image of unity and rising determination, SK could not have outdone himself with a better intro for Lion. Follow that with Macross Quarter charging and Battle Frontier saying Here comes big daddy! with a canon salvo as Lion goes into heavy guitar riffs, and the adrenaline rush is pretty much guaranteed. Top that off with Wilder chanelling Bretai as Lion plays on and it's goosebumps galore. Those with pride in their wings, press forth alongside me! + An homage to SDFM we've seen on many occasions, but here it takes on greater significance: Alto, and Macross Frontier as a series coming into its own. SK outdid himself with the VF-25, a design that echoes the original VF-1 but a classic on its own right. + Classic David vs Goliath. Canaria's charge is one for the books + When Lion comes back on, it does so like a pent up geyser. Deftly directed, the camera zooms past Ranka and focuses on Sheryl's eyes burning with determination as she sings I want to survive! and embodied by the Macross Quarter delivering the classic Daedalus manuever. Top that off with the most epic KO punch in all of anime-dom, this sequence is just pure win! + A solemn tribute to a fallen comrade + Brera's impeccable timing comes to the fore as he saves Alto, setting up the Alto x Brera charge that will be the benchmark of fighter choreography for many years to come. In that sequence, many might have missed the spectacular move pulled off by Brera: spotting another VF-27, Brera zooms ahead of Alto and shifts to gerwalk, then like a bird of prey, swoops the hapless quarry into his clutches before dispatching it as it came disarmed. Reminds me of DYRL Max grappling a Zentraedi before shooting him in the face. + Opening all missile bays never gets old. Specially not when it comes after an epic charge capped off with a back-to-back tango by two of the most gifted pilots. + Alto: But because we are alone...We love someone! (Never mind that he can't make up his mind as to who.) The writers have earned their pay. + The Angel of Retribution As for the most emotional moment... it's the Vajra sacrificing to save Frontier. I had guessed that the Vajra were not evil and would side with Frontier. But I was surprised it would involve sacrifice, and at this scale. I'm still surprised at how much it has impacted me. Damn scene brought a tear to my eye. Partly to blame is Diamond Crevasse, the somber low strings and uplifting high strings pull at your heart in both directions. Or perhaps it was the sheer magnitude? Easily hundreds of vajra for each precious soul aboard Frontier. The old war justification of the sacrifice of a few, for the lives of the many gets thrown out the window. With that kind of ratio, the mind struggles to cope leaving us with only our emotions to try to grasp the implications of war. Or perhaps it was the sheer crudeness with how the Vajra saved Frontier? No fancy flying, no acrobatic moves, no flash of brilliance nor skill; just literally laying theirselves unflinchingly in the line of fire. My life for yours. It was that simple, yet cannot possibly be even more profound. Well, that was my longest post ever. Hopefully with that, I can get Frontier out of my system and stop re-watching the finale. It's been great guys. Long live Macross! Edited October 1, 2008 by Major Focker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Togo Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 As for the most emotional moment... it's the Vajra sacrificing to save Frontier. The thing that most shocked me about that scene is that it looks like 90% of the Vajra survived the hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnuskn Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 I'm not sure it was ever poignant or haunting, I'm don't think anyone thought he really was dead. Well, if you take the blog posts I´ve seen at face value, a *lot* of people believed it. Which was quite shocking to me, because it was so obvious that they wouldn´t kill him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grss1982 Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 snip.... + Brera's impeccable timing comes to the fore as he saves Alto, setting up the Alto x Brera charge that will be the benchmark of fighter choreography for many years to come. In that sequence, many might have missed the spectacular move pulled off by Brera: spotting another VF-27, Brera zooms ahead of Alto and shifts to gerwalk, then like a bird of prey, swoops the hapless quarry into his clutches before dispatching it as it came disarmed. Reminds me of DYRL Max grappling a Zentraedi before shooting him in the face. Amazingly enough...if played in its normal speed I only caught the VF-27 gunpod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Focker Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 Amazingly enough...if played in its normal speed I only caught the VF-27 gunpod. at first i thought something got shot off brera, but in subsequent scenes i saw his valk was basically intact. so i replayed it in slow-mo and was surprised to find this nugget. wish they focused on it a bit more, but i guess that might have slowed the tempo and took the focus off alto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Focker Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 I'm not sure it was ever poignant or haunting, I'm don't think anyone thought he really was dead. your mileage may vary. i've always been a sentimentalist and was foolish enough consider the possibility of alto's death... despite what my mind was telling me. The thing that most shocked me about that scene is that it looks like 90% of the Vajra survived the hit. yeah, that watered it down. they could've shown a gaping hole in the vajra ranks that was re-filled more slowly. at first i also thought the vajra shield just shrugged off the attack, but later scenes showing the immense number of vajra surrounding frontier, and cues of sheryl, ranka and alto feeling the pain, led me to think that a lot of vajra did die, but there were simply many more to continue the fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thom Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 Awesome episode! It kicked arse from start to finish. Total mecha slaughter and Macross songs galore. I love stories and battle scenes that give me chills. That last drive against Grace did just that. It was so good, I didn't mind too much about the unresolved triangle! Though as I think about it, I'm glad I'm 'hearing' all this talk about a follow-up movie. I hope it is a continuation and not a re shoot. That would be cool, but not enough cool. Perhaps Michel could return to save Klan Klan's broken heart! And I would hope it would include a resolution to Hikaru and Misa and Minmei. I would love to know what happened to them. That is too much of a black hole. Now, I'm off to watch the ending again. God, I love this series... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrie Nut Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 They were trying to show the Grace were sending the Vajra out across the Galaxy to hit the UN wherever they are. Ok, that works for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemesis_trooper Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 Love the last episode! Query - does anybody know what Alto was on abt? "If you think not, you will blossom. Nor shall you blossom if you think" I think I roughly get it, but what are your views on that phrase? Is it some subtle or famous japanese idiom ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedWolf Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 Love the last episode! Query - does anybody know what Alto was on abt? "If you think not, you will blossom. Nor shall you blossom if you think" I think I roughly get it, but what are your views on that phrase? Is it some subtle or famous japanese idiom ? A Quigon would say Don't think Just feel. It's what Alto's father taught him about acting. Alto said the same thing when Ranka was to play an extra before landing the role of Mao. Alto applies it to piloting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fade Rathnik Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 Strikes me as a long winded version of "don't over think a situation" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VF-18S Hornet Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 Awesome episode! It kicked arse from start to finish. Total mecha slaughter and Macross songs galore. I love stories and battle scenes that give me chills. That last drive against Grace did just that. It was so good, I didn't mind too much about the unresolved triangle! Though as I think about it, I'm glad I'm 'hearing' all this talk about a follow-up movie. I hope it is a continuation and not a re shoot. That would be cool, but not enough cool. Perhaps Michel could return to save Klan Klan's broken heart! And I would hope it would include a resolution to Hikaru and Misa and Minmei. I would love to know what happened to them. That is too much of a black hole. Now, I'm off to watch the ending again. God, I love this series... Here is a theory, they were near black hole but made a last ditch effort to fold out but had succeeded in folding but with the gravitation pull of the black hole who knows where or when they could have ended up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeBot Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 (edited) I've started rewatching the series from the beginning, now that I know how it ends (watched up to episode 5 so far). It's interesting how many little details you pick up with hindsight, like Ranka wailing about why Ozma was dying since she didn't blab about a secret (as it turns out, about her calling the Vajra) in episode 3--a promise she made to Brera, not Ozma, and was a point of confusion back at the original airing. Also, some of Alto's more braindead moves of impulsiveness make more sense in the light that he really did join up with SMS originally for Ranka's sake. And there's this moment where Alto's fiddling vainly with his hair, right before he head off to cheer for Ranka in the Miss Macross contest in episode 4--it's almost immediately overshadowed by him getting pissed off over the prank Bobby pulled with the cosmetics. Anyway, I was reflecting on the last few minutes of the last episode again, and it struck me that what was going with the interplay between the girls was Ranka being acknowledged as Sheryl's equal. In the rest of the series, Sheryl and Ranka have had a mentor-mentee relationship, with Sheryl clearly being the one Ranka looks up to. This faded a bit with Ranka's Cinderella-like rise and seeming usurpation of Sheryl's position, but ultimately this was a false start--Ranka couldn't sustain it, as she failed to cope with her heartbreak over Alto. At the very end, what I think we get is an acknowledgment from both girls that the mentor-mentee relationship is over--they are now truly equals. Ranka declares, rather hesitantly, that she'll fight Sheryl in love and song. Sheryl accepts, returning with Ranka's own kira gesture. Ranka seems a bit overwhelmed by that--and I think it's because she realizes Sheryl, the idol she used to look up to so much, now considers her a peer, not just an up-and-comer. There's recognition there from both sides, after all they've been through together, that from here on, they'll be true (if friendly) rivals. Since in many respects, Sheryl ends as high as she started (with a personal lesson or two learned along the way), this is mostly about acknowledging Ranka's rise. In that light, I think it's only appropriate that the love triangle ended unresolved, because it's only now that the two are really competing on an equal footing, with equal strength and confidence. Personally, I don't think there's a harem in the cards--I think everyone in the triangle wants a choice made, eventually--but it will be resolved in the fullness of time, not because the Vajra threat was neutralized a few minutes earlier and demanding viewers want an answer right now. Anyway, time to be getting back to my rewatching schedule. Can't wait to see what hindsight illuminates next. Edited October 2, 2008 by DeeBot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamweaver13 Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 Strikes me as a long winded version of "don't over think a situation" also strikes me as Alto's way of saying, "please enough about the triangle. i don't want to think about that now; i just want to fly." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamweaver13 Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 I've started rewatching the series from the beginning, now that I know how it ends (watched up to episode 5 so far). It's interesting how many little details you pick up with hindsight, like Ranka wailing about why Ozma was dying since she didn't blab about a secret (as it turns out, about her calling the Vajra) in episode 3--a promise she made to Brera, not Ozma, and was a point of confusion back at the original airing. Also, some of Alto's more braindead moves of impulsiveness make more sense in the light that he really did join up with SMS originally for Ranka's sake. And there's this moment where Alto's fiddling vainly with his hair, right before he head off to cheer for Ranka in the Miss Macross contest in episode 4--it's almost immediately overshadowed by him getting pissed off over the prank Bobby pulled with the cosmetics. Anyway, I was reflecting on the last few minutes of the last episode again, and it struck me that what was going with the interplay between the girls was Ranka being acknowledged as Sheryl's equal. In the rest of the series, Sheryl and Ranka have had a mentor-mentee relationship, with Sheryl clearly being the one Ranka looks up to. This faded a bit with Ranka's Cinderella-like rise and seeming usurpation of Sheryl's position, but ultimately this was a false start--Ranka couldn't sustain it, as she failed to cope with her heartbreak over Alto. At the very end, what I think we get is an acknowledgment from both girls that the mentor-mentee relationship is over--they are now truly equals. Ranka declares, rather hesitantly, that she'll fight Sheryl in love and song. Sheryl accepts, returning with Ranka's own kira gesture. Ranka seems a bit overwhelmed by that--and I think it's because she realizes Sheryl, the idol she used to look up to so much, now considers her a peer, not just an up-and-comer. There's recognition there from both sides, after all they've been through together, that from here on, they'll be true (if friendly) rivals. Since in many respects, Sheryl ends as high as she started (with a personal lesson or two learned along the way), this is mostly about acknowledging Ranka's rise. In that light, I think it's only appropriate that the love triangle ended unresolved, because it's only now that the two are really competing on an equal footing, with equal strength and confidence. Personally, I don't think there's a harem in the cards--I think everyone in the triangle wants a choice made, eventually--but it will be resolved in the fullness of time, not because the Vajra threat was neutralized a few minutes earlier and demanding viewers want an answer right now. Anyway, time to be getting back to my rewatching schedule. Can't wait to see what hindsight illuminates next. Good observations about the sheryl-ranka dynamic. can't wait to start my own MF marathon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shun Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 (edited) hmmm... that last scene - did the vajra leave this galaxy? or was that just an explanation of the vajra mating song Aimo? Edited October 2, 2008 by Shun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d3v Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 I'm not sure it was ever poignant or haunting, I'm don't think anyone thought he really was dead. I'm sure alot of us "veterans" remembered the fact that the lead character in a Macross TV series usually either "dies" or at least gets shot up badly in before or during the big fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grss1982 Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 (edited) ...continued snip.... + Alto: But because we are alone...We love someone! (Never mind that he can't make up his mind as to who.) The writers have earned their pay. snip.... What's weird about this scene though is that the glass on Alto's helmet shattered....could that be an indication that the VF-25 is going really fast and was doing some very crazy manuevers? Edited October 2, 2008 by grss1982 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sketchley Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 it 'twas just a visual representation of Vajra (going to?) mate. hmmm... that last scene - did the vajra leave this galaxy? or was that just an explanation of the vajra mating song Aimo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spud387 Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 I don't know if I'm being dense but from what series/film/ova was Macross 11? When they showed it in this episode I couldn't see the relevence o.O When watching Macross 7 Dynamite, Macross 11 is referenced in that space drama they are listening to on the radio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oihan Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Is it strange that I'm not willing to watch the last episode subtitled? I've seen it raw...but it feels like once I watch it subtitled then I won't have anything to look forward to in regards to Macross. ...Yes, I know there's a movie coming out...but after it comes out then what? Am I the only one doing this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Is it strange that I'm not willing to watch the last episode subtitled? I've seen it raw...but it feels like once I watch it subtitled then I won't have anything to look forward to in regards to Macross. ...Yes, I know there's a movie coming out...but after it comes out then what? Am I the only one doing this? Yes. (C'mon, man...there's ALWAYS more Macross...be it Macross Chronicle, or Macross Generation, or Mylene Beat, or any of the other drama albums and novels...there's TONS of Macross stuff just waiting to be translated. SO LET'S GET CRACKIN"!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Protoculture Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 What can I say, ITS BEEN A FREAKING BLAST! A nice end to otherwise thrilling ride for the past 25 weeks. What counts for me, IS THE FRIGGING HEADSHOT! Hell yeah, DYRL goodness! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 What's weird about this scene though is that the glass on Alto's helmet shattered....could that be an indication that the VF-25 is going really fast and was doing some very crazy manuevers? Zeta Gundam reference I think, Camille helmet also shattered when he's preparing to ram The-O. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HMP_Goose Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Lunar: Why have you forsaken us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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