Bandai 1/60 DX Chogokin Macross Plus YF-21

[M'Kyuun]

On 5/5/2024 at 12:40 PM, Uxi said:

T-bar broke  on my Yamato YF-21 so will probably never transform it again from fighter.  Gamlin VF-22 seemed ok last time I transformed a couple years ago.

Liking the exrra tampo printing so probably getting this. Hope they'll do the Max VF-22.

Considering there's money to be made from milking a mold, I'm sure we'll see every possible variant.

Sorry to hear about your Yammie's breakage. At least you can display it in fighter, which is its best mode.

[rematron]

10 hours ago, M'Kyuun said:

Considering there's money to be made from milking a mold, I'm sure we'll see every possible variant.

I really hope so.  They're gonna need to come up with a canopy shield for VF-22 battroid though.  And it would be nice if it were integrated somehow but I'm not sure how they could pull that off.  One of the many design features I like about the VF-22 is the unorthodox canopy style.

[Chronocidal]

11 hours ago, M'Kyuun said:

Considering there's money to be made from milking a mold, I'm sure we'll see every possible variant.

Sorry to hear about your Yammie's breakage. At least you can display it in fighter, which is its best mode.

I really really do not trust Bandai to do this, after what they did with the Sv262.  There was all the opportunity in the world for them to milk that mold with several more variants, and they haven't even looked at that design since the initial release.

I think there's definitely a little more potential with M&M releases.. but we've seen how enthusiastic they've been about getting us the M&M DX VF-1s.  I'm not holding my breath.  

[Sanity is Optional]

31 minutes ago, Chronocidal said:

I really really do not trust Bandai to do this, after what they did with the Sv262.  There was all the opportunity in the world for them to milk that mold with several more variants, and they haven't even looked at that design since the initial release.

I think there's definitely a little more potential with M&M releases.. but we've seen how enthusiastic they've been about getting us the M&M DX VF-1s.  I'm not holding my breath.  

With how poorly the sv-262 was received and sold nobody should be surprised it never got released again.

Bandai is risk-averse. I'm just glad that the poor DX reception didn't torpedo the 1/72 model kits (which were much nicer to transform).

[Dirtyboy]

Still its impressive there are 70 pages of comments on a toy that hasnt even been released yet. 

[Mog]

You also have to remember two things:

1). Bandai first showed this prototype way back in 2019. 

2). You have some very passionate fans of the YF-21.  We have some very strong opinions when it comes to the bastard love child.  And Bandai’s hubris with some design choices does get folks “talking” (ranting bloody hell murder for some of us! 😅).

[MKT]

Bandai did tease Bogue’s red 262hs after so many years, but it really isn’t the 262 variant we want. 

There was a time going into Delta that I thought Bandai would make all the valks in the show in full force, especially coming from Frontier. Even many Macross 30 schemes got released during the Frontier era.

Then something changed along the way mid-Delta & suddenly full line-ups get abandoned. 

[Chronocidal]

I still think the lack of the Ba was at least partly due to structural problems.  They would have been fine without the head, because everything's the same as Keith's, but the pope head on the models was an incredibly fragile mess.  I wouldn't be surprised if they couldn't come up with a way to make it structurally sound.

[M'Kyuun]

12 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

I really really do not trust Bandai to do this, after what they did with the Sv262.  There was all the opportunity in the world for them to milk that mold with several more variants, and they haven't even looked at that design since the initial release.

I think there's definitely a little more potential with M&M releases.. but we've seen how enthusiastic they've been about getting us the M&M DX VF-1s.  I'm not holding my breath.  

The DX Sv-262 is a PITA to transform. I managed to transform it to battroid and that's how it has remained. I don't think I ever reattempted going back to fighter. The majority of it wasn't too bad, but those wing armatures were no fun. Since I display my valks in battroid, I'm good.

I venture the opinion that Macross Plus is more popular than Delta (will ever be), and so, too, the two primary valks (although I have a soft spot for the VF-11, a lovely design in its own right and a valk that gets too little love). If initial sales of the YF-21 are good, I think Max and Milia versions will follow at a minimum. However, we already know this toy is going to be a mixed bag, as we've already exhausted many pages airing our grievances of which Bandai seemingly did little to nothing to fix since the unveiling in 2019. Desperation for a new toy is driving the acquisition of the YF-21 for many, myself included, but I'm not blind to its faults, either. If it's a solid toy with a non-frustrating transformation, good tolerances, and overall good quality, I think it'll soften some the more questionable design flaws, at least make them a little more tolerable. However, given the amount of critique this thing has already suffered, any misstep in quality or build is going to deep six this toy due to the umbrage onslaught. I'm sure Bandai's fully aware of the criticisms, but they're betting on the fandom's desperation. The fact that all this feedback is out there and yet nothing really changed for the better indicates that they're happy to one-and-done with this mold. FWIW, I hope it's a solid toy. Shitty backpack design aside, I've been pretty content with the battroid mode since the proto was unveiled in '19, so for my display purposes, it does the job. That said, I don't really handle my high-end toys, but for those who like to mess with them, the build quality, tolerances, and aesthetics are going to be far more meaningful; failing these criteria, I don't see much of an afterlife for this toy in repaints. If it sucks, the internet won't hold back.

I was very much hoping that Bandai's DX would inspire Arcadia to take another crack at the YF-21. Even if they only did a partial retool of the Yamato to bulk up the legs, it would be the improvement I desperately desire. In all other regards, it's about as close to perfect as humanly possible. I'll take a chubbier jet mode if it means the battroid is more proportional, and hopefully the hips would be on ratchets this time around. The best thing about Arcadia is their genuine passion for Macross; it comes through in their toys, the little touches. I think a new YF-21 release from them would smoke Bandai's DX. Shame they didn't capitalize on the opportunity. In that absence, I feel we the fans lose.

[WhatBoutMyStar]

1 hour ago, M'Kyuun said:

The DX Sv-262 is a PITA to transform. I managed to transform it to battroid and that's how it has remained. I don't think I ever reattempted going back to fighter. The majority of it wasn't too bad, but those wing armatures were no fun. Since I display my valks in battroid, I'm good.

I venture the opinion that Macross Plus is more popular than Delta (will ever be), and so, too, the two primary valks (although I have a soft spot for the VF-11, a lovely design in its own right and a valk that gets too little love). If initial sales of the YF-21 are good, I think Max and Milia versions will follow at a minimum. However, we already know this toy is going to be a mixed bag, as we've already exhausted many pages airing our grievances of which Bandai seemingly did little to nothing to fix since the unveiling in 2019. Desperation for a new toy is driving the acquisition of the YF-21 for many, myself included, but I'm not blind to its faults, either. If it's a solid toy with a non-frustrating transformation, good tolerances, and overall good quality, I think it'll soften some the more questionable design flaws, at least make them a little more tolerable. However, given the amount of critique this thing has already suffered, any misstep in quality or build is going to deep six this toy due to the umbrage onslaught. I'm sure Bandai's fully aware of the criticisms, but they're betting on the fandom's desperation. The fact that all this feedback is out there and yet nothing really changed for the better indicates that they're happy to one-and-done with this mold. FWIW, I hope it's a solid toy. Shitty backpack design aside, I've been pretty content with the battroid mode since the proto was unveiled in '19, so for my display purposes, it does the job. That said, I don't really handle my high-end toys, but for those who like to mess with them, the build quality, tolerances, and aesthetics are going to be far more meaningful; failing these criteria, I don't see much of an afterlife for this toy in repaints. If it sucks, the internet won't hold back.

I was very much hoping that Bandai's DX would inspire Arcadia to take another crack at the YF-21. Even if they only did a partial retool of the Yamato to bulk up the legs, it would be the improvement I desperately desire. In all other regards, it's about as close to perfect as humanly possible. I'll take a chubbier jet mode if it means the battroid is more proportional, and hopefully the hips would be on ratchets this time around. The best thing about Arcadia is their genuine passion for Macross; it comes through in their toys, the little touches. I think a new YF-21 release from them would smoke Bandai's DX. Shame they didn't capitalize on the opportunity. In that absence, I feel we the fans lose.

I don't think it's the lack of popularity of Delta compared to Plus in itself (I recall a poll in Japan about 4 or 5 years back showing Delta was actually more popular than Plus). It's that the fans of Delta aren't in the typical demographic who would buy expensive collectible figures/toys, who are typically older and often driven by nostalgia. I remember that poll showing Delta fans being much younger, and I believe it was the only series where more than 50% of the fans were female. Also just from my experience with my own teenage kids and their friends, they simply do not care about toys and figures like I did growing up. They are more interested in their electronic devices and streaming/social media. Given the crowd sizes at Walkure concerts, I'm sure more way more revenues have been generated just by ticket sales of Walkure shows alone compared to what Bandai has grossed or will gross from sales of DX 19 and 21 valks from Plus or all of the Delta valks that have been released.

I'm speculating that Bandai realized this and decided it wasn't worth the risk going forward to press on with more DX valks from Delta, especially when the early releases of "hero valks" like the multiple releases of Hayate's 31J and Messer's 31F ended up quickly inundating the aftermarket for below retail price.  Plus, like SDFM/DYRL, falls much more in line with your typical collectors and should be a much safer bet for Bandai in terms of selling DX valks.

[M'Kyuun]

On 5/8/2024 at 1:06 AM, WhatBoutMyStar said:

I don't think it's the lack of popularity of Delta compared to Plus in itself (I recall a poll in Japan about 4 or 5 years back showing Delta was actually more popular than Plus). It's that the fans of Delta aren't in the typical demographic who would buy expensive collectible figures/toys, who are typically older and often driven by nostalgia. I remember that poll showing Delta fans being much younger, and I believe it was the only series where more than 50% of the fans were female. Also just from my experience with my own teenage kids and their friends, they simply do not care about toys and figures like I did growing up. They are more interested in their electronic devices and streaming/social media. Given the crowd sizes at Walkure concerts, I'm sure more way more revenues have been generated just by ticket sales of Walkure shows alone compared to what Bandai has grossed or will gross from sales of DX 19 and 21 valks from Plus or all of the Delta valks that have been released.

I'm speculating that Bandai realized this and decided it wasn't worth the risk going forward to press on with more DX valks from Delta, especially when the early releases of "hero valks" like the multiple releases of Hayate's 31J and Messer's 31F ended up quickly inundating the aftermarket for below retail price.  Plus, like SDFM/DYRL, falls much more in line with your typical collectors and should be a much safer bet for Bandai in terms of selling DX valks.

Not at all surprised that Delta resonated with a younger, mostly female crowd, especially in Japan. It definitely did not resonate with me, an American retired Veteran in his forties at the time of release. Macross Plus hit home in a big way, as did SDF:M, Macross Zero (those dogfights!), and Frontier for its more mature storytelling, good use of the music/singers, and the lovely VF-25 and variants. M7 didn't really grab me like the others, and not until I was already halfway through. Couldn't stand useless Basara and hated most of his songs. The VF-19 was wasted on him. I also didn't like that Max and Milia were split up- such a good team; putting those two characters from the OG series in that situation was just gas on the fire. I hope the next series is more like Plus or Frontier and less like Delta or M7 with at least three new valk designs to salivate over. I like the stories when they're good, but I'm in it for the awesome transforming jets.

Today's kids' focus on electronics and heavily on social media as opposed to collecting toys and figures is just sad.  Toy loving nerds need to take back the world! When the internet goes down, I have plenty of toys to keep myself occupied; I don't need likes and subscribers to give me a sense of purpose or validation. Alas, the situation doesn't bode well for toymakers down the road after all of us 80s kids are gone.

[Uxi]

On 5/9/2024 at 6:53 AM, M'Kyuun said:

Not at all surprised that Delta resonated with a younger, mostly female crowd, especially in Japan. It definitely did not resonate with me, an American retired Veteran in his forties at the time of release. Macross Plus hit home in a big way, as did SDF:M, Macross Zero (those dogfights!), and Frontier for its more mature storytelling, good use of the music/singers, and the lovely VF-25 and variants. M7 didn't really grab me like the others, and not until I was already halfway through. Couldn't stand useless Basara and hated most of his songs. The VF-19 was wasted on him. I also didn't like that Max and Milia were split up- such a good team; putting those two characters from the OG series in that situation was just gas on the fire. I hope the next series is more like Plus or Frontier and less like Delta or M7 with at least three new valk designs to salivate over. I like the stories when they're good, but I'm in it for the awesome transforming jets.

Today's kids' focus on electronics and heavily on social media as opposed to collecting toys and figures is just sad.  Toy loving nerds need to take back the world! When the internet goes down, I have plenty of toys to keep myself occupied; I don't need likes and subscribers to give me a sense of purpose or validation. Alas, the situation doesn't bode well for toymakers down the road after all of us 80s kids are gone.

Interesting perspective.  I'm a slightly younger combat vet (OIF), and normally love the serious ones (Macross Plus and SDF are my favorite) but Macross 7 remains one of my favorites, above even DYRL (which is just too short and I prefer the TV designs TBH and if they're gonna do the big samurai shoulders, they might as well have speakers or sound boosters on them ).  My wife was certainly surprised.  As I was crossing the Euphrates in 2003, I was humming Fire Bomber songs.

I still haven't seen Delta yet tbh beyond a few clips.

Rather than even MORE new Valkyrie designs, I'd rather see a migration fleet that chose upgraded variants of the VF-22 for special forces (VF-22T or maybe VF-22V or Kai)  with VF-19 GX and VF-19 SX as the mainstay fighter (use the shorter shoulders of the YF-19, wings of the F/S, etc but the FAST packs and  boosters of Isamu's from the Frontier movie and maybe something like the VF-27's big BGP-01β Beam Gun pod.  Put a bayonet on it, and they can use them like polearms maybe.  Standard Low viz paint schemes,. 

Make the major enemy a mix of Marduk from Macross II with another Bodolza style fleet.  If they're a Protoculture variant, or perhaps even better Supervision Army they could be using the original SDF design as their gunships on the enemy side. This would require our protagonist fleet to have a standing Minmay Attack Jamming Birds unit (less... eccentric and undisciplined than Basara's Sound Force but engaging in "sing offs" while the UN Spacy fights more Fleets of the Strongest Women.  Of course, they'll throw a love triangle or two in there. 

And lets Bandai reuse their current designs with slightly modified tooling. Perhaps a few new treats like a GBP on a VF-19. 

Edited May 11 by Uxi

[M'Kyuun]

On 5/10/2024 at 8:38 PM, Uxi said:

Interesting perspective.  I'm a slightly younger combat vet (OIF), and normally love the serious ones (Macross Plus and SDF are my favorite) but Macross 7 remains one of my favorites, above even DYRL (which is just too short and I prefer the TV designs TBH and if they're gonna do the big samurai shoulders, they might as well have speakers or sound boosters on them ).  My wife was certainly surprised.  As I was crossing the Euphrates in 2003, I was humming Fire Bomber songs.

I still haven't seen Delta yet tbh beyond a few clips.

Rather than even MORE new Valkyrie designs, I'd rather see a migration fleet that chose upgraded variants of the VF-22 for special forces (VF-22T or maybe VF-22V or Kai)  with VF-19 GX and VF-19 SX as the mainstay fighter (use the shorter shoulders of the YF-19, wings of the F/S, etc but the FAST packs and  boosters of Isamu's from the Frontier movie and maybe something like the VF-27's big BGP-01β Beam Gun pod.  Put a bayonet on it, and they can use them like polearms maybe.  Standard Low viz paint schemes,. 

Make the major enemy a mix of Marduk from Macross II with another Bodolza style fleet.  If they're a Protoculture variant, or perhaps even better Supervision Army they could be using the original SDF design as their gunships on the enemy side. This would require our protagonist fleet to have a standing Minmay Attack Jamming Birds unit (less... eccentric and undisciplined than Basara's Sound Force but engaging in "sing offs" while the UN Spacy fights more Fleets of the Strongest Women.  Of course, they'll throw a love triangle or two in there. 

And lets Bandai reuse their current designs with slightly modified tooling. Perhaps a few new treats like a GBP on a VF-19. 

 I was an aircraft hydraulics tech in the Air Force, retiring at 20 years back in 2011.  From the standpoint of having served, thank you for your service. 

Fortunately, Kawamori likes to experiment with the Macross Saga, so it's hard to predict how the next installment will play out. We definitely want different things, but however the next installment turns out, it's nice to know we have the older shows to fall back on to fulfill what we like most about Macross. If you liked M7, I'd say give Delta a watch. Instead of just having one or two singers like most Macross series, Delta has a group of girl singers and there's more frivolity IIRC. I only watched it once, I don't remember if I even finished it, and it's been years since I've watched it, so memory is pretty faded. I remember my impression more than anything, and it just didn't grab me like Frontier, Plus, SDF:M, or Zero, which all had more mature tones.  That said, I liked it better than M7. Hayate was a better protagonist; I didn't care for Basara.  I'm waiting for Disney plus to stream the majority of the Macross series sometime this year. I'm hoping it'll land big with American audiences creating a robust market for Macross merch, especially Valkyrie toys. Moreover, I look forward to the opportunity to rewatch some of the shows (with my wife who has only seen SDF:M and Plus). Some may consider it heresy, but I hope they provide English dubs for all the shows; reading subs is a PITA when you're also trying to follow Valks in action, and the dialog delivery is really quick necessitating rewinding so you can follow one or the other. I personally find it more enjoyable when I understand what's being said, even if some original nuance is lost. 

Pertaining to your mention of Macross II, that's kinda the black sheep of the Macross Saga, and it's highly unlikely we'll ever see any official reference to it in anything that Kawamori produces. I wish Arcadia would make a VF-2SS- lovely design that deserves a really good toy.