The Transformers Thread (licensed) Next

[mikeszekely]

17 minutes ago, M'Kyuun said:

Part of the problem is that Takara & Hasbro shrink the jets so that the robot modes will all be roughly compatible. However, most jets are much larger than cars.

I mean, we're talking about a franchise where a space shuttle orbiter becomes the arm of a robot that uses a Jeep Willys for a leg (in the cartoon, I am aware that the toy was actually based on larger the XR311).  Trying to reconcile alt mode scale in G1 is a pathway to madness.

But like I keep saying, the real problem is the relatively thinness.  A car just of room underneath and inside to stuff robot parts, or chunkier parts that are easier to translate directly as robot parts. As big as an F-15 is (and comparatively thick for a fighter), it's roughly 40% thinner than a Datsun 280ZX (which is pretty sleek, as cars go) when you compare their relative length or width to their height.

22 minutes ago, M'Kyuun said:

Considering all of Kawamori's valk designs which approximate real world aircraft, and all of his variations in planform and transformation schemas, I think the problem lies with Takara's exceptionally narrow approach to designing transformable jets and less with their proportions.

A lot of Kawamori's designs end up with large intakes and engine nacelles that are a thicker than a lot of modern fighters, and Macross series since they started using more CGI have featured Valks that are a lot skinnier, especially in the arms.  And like I said, Kawamori has the luxury of working backward from Fighter, and from VF-1 to VF-11 to VF-19 to VF-25 to VF-31 a lot of the transformation elements are pretty similar, with the big evolution seeming to be how they scrunch up the cockpit and nose.  I'm not saying this as a critique of Kawamori's work, I'm saying that Takara was first constrained by using real-world aircraft then double-whammied by Sunbow replacing the Diaclone mecha designs with Floro Dery's character models, which (especially in the first season) often deviated wildly from the original designs.  When you start with a toy that had kind of weird proportions and arms that were half part of the fuselage and half add-on fists, turn it into a cartoon with more humanoid proportions and normal, blocky arms, then turn it back into a toy that has to be faithful to that cartoon, something's bound to give.  And, I mean, yeah, I think it's definitely possible, with enough parts and engineering, to have a totally accurate F-15 turn into a totally Sunbow robot.  I agree that designers could make better use of what the plane actually has and translating that into what the robot needs.  But at even a $50 Leader price?  On a toy that still has to meet US safety standards to be sold in Walmarts, and very likely doesn't have a license from Boeing even be all that accurate in the first place?  Last I checked even Newage charges more for a toy that's half the size.  And it gets even worse when they have to do it as a Deluxe that also has to be a part of a Combiner.

Like I ultimately said, Has/Tak's jet Transformers are far from perfect, and I do get how that can be frustrating for someone so into aircraft... but I gotta be realistic about what they can and can't do with a $20/$35/$50 trying to capture the nuances of an often poorly-animated 40-plus year-old cartoon.

...newer Transformers media, though, doesn't quite have the same excuse.  The guys who worked on the Bay films could have worked backward from an F-22 the way Touch Toys did with the J-35 and given us a cool Starscream, instead of the mess of scrap that we actually got.  But they didn't.  But even then, there's the matter of budgets... SS Starscream?  Best they could do on the budget at the time (was that release all the way back when Voyagers were $25?).  The MPM, though, that was proportionally thicker and far messier?  No excuse.

1 hour ago, M'Kyuun said:

hate it when they put a foreshortened forward fuselage on their jetformers- it's analogous to making the entire cabin section of a car only half of its normal width. 

So... like Bumblebee and Cliffjumper? 😄

Shifting gears a bit, I know you're a big fan of the tapes in general and Dr. Wu's specifically.  Make sure you check out the 3P thread.😉

[pengbuzz]

2 hours ago, mikeszekely said:

I mean, we're talking about a franchise where a space shuttle orbiter becomes the arm of a robot that uses a Jeep Willys for a leg (in the cartoon, I am aware that the toy was actually based on larger the XR311).  Trying to reconcile alt mode scale in G1 is a pathway to madness.

 

[lechuck]

Has there ever been an interview with the original people behind the scarmble city Bruticus to ask why they chose his combiner layout like that? 

It surprises me that a Japanese toy company didn't ground themselves with a bit of sense for scale and realism, even in an outlandish setting like Transformers.