The Transformers Thread (licensed) Next

[M'Kyuun]

That had the Touch and the Power- very cool.

[sh9000]

I think my prior post disappeared.

 

 

Happy Belated Birthday Peter Cullen.

Edited August 2 by sh9000

[sh9000]

Blast Off and Brawl looking good.

[danth]

I'm only a TF dilettante, but I caved on the Void Rivals Jetfire mainly for the o-ring (Joe-ring?) figures. I mean, Jetfire is cool too. But I might pawn him off on my friend who is more of a TF fan than I. 

I also recently bought both Missing Link Lambos due to Lambo FOMO. I love the Countach, and Sunstreaker was the first ever transforming car toy, so I kinda had too. And I want to support the Missing Link line out of hope for eventual Seekers and Fairlady Zs. 

[mikeszekely]

16 hours ago, sh9000 said:

I think my prior post disappeared.

That seems to be happening lately...

[Hikuro]

God I would absolutely love missing link Z's as a Z enthusiast. Infact I almost traded in my 370Z this week for the new 25 Z but the dealership we were getting it from at work said no dice, car had hail damage and they didn't wanna repair it so the deal fell thru. Was absolutely bummed, really wanted to drive a new Z for my birthday this weekend.

Speaking as is tradition for me the last 6 years, been at a con all day. There was a vender booth with just a ton of Transformers from all the different lines but what got me so giddy were the Alternators, I absolutely LOVED that figure line cause they were all scaled realistic vehicles of the early 2000's. But when I looked at the boxes for these things the guy wanted 200+ bucks each....man I get they're MIB but by god 200, there's an Ozzy line thrown there somewhere I can't repeat.
He also wanted 90 for SS86 Swoop, another wanted 80 for a Takara Pre-earth Wheeljack. GET BLEEPED! 130 for Long haul and Mixmaster! Come the freak on, I get trying to turn a bit of a profit but that's almost double the cost, I'd been stupid to buy those. 

[M'Kyuun]

4 hours ago, Hikuro said:

God I would absolutely love missing link Z's as a Z enthusiast. Infact I almost traded in my 370Z this week for the new 25 Z but the dealership we were getting it from at work said no dice, car had hail damage and they didn't wanna repair it so the deal fell thru. Was absolutely bummed, really wanted to drive a new Z for my birthday this weekend.

Speaking as is tradition for me the last 6 years, been at a con all day. There was a vender booth with just a ton of Transformers from all the different lines but what got me so giddy were the Alternators, I absolutely LOVED that figure line cause they were all scaled realistic vehicles of the early 2000's. But when I looked at the boxes for these things the guy wanted 200+ bucks each....man I get they're MIB but by god 200, there's an Ozzy line thrown there somewhere I can't repeat.
He also wanted 90 for SS86 Swoop, another wanted 80 for a Takara Pre-earth Wheeljack. GET BLEEPED! 130 for Long haul and Mixmaster! Come the freak on, I get trying to turn a bit of a profit but that's almost double the cost, I'd been stupid to buy those. 

Prowl's one of my favorite TF designs so I'm also hoping the Fairlady Zs will get the Missing Link treatment. I pretty much destroyed my original Prowl toy trying to give him some leg movement when I was a kid. I had no modding skills and I failed miserably. Anyway, the G1 TF toys don't interest me as-is, but the Missing Link treatment imbues them with the articulation I so wished they had when I was a kid and I'm definitely down for Prowl at the least.

As to prices, greed and price gouging have made collecting a lot less fun, for sure.

[Hikuro]

6 hours ago, M'Kyuun said:

Prowl's one of my favorite TF designs so I'm also hoping the Fairlady Zs will get the Missing Link treatment. I pretty much destroyed my original Prowl toy trying to give him some leg movement when I was a kid. I had no modding skills and I failed miserably. Anyway, the G1 TF toys don't interest me as-is, but the Missing Link treatment imbues them with the articulation I so wished they had when I was a kid and I'm definitely down for Prowl at the least.

As to prices, greed and price gouging have made collecting a lot less fun, for sure.

Considering these days finding missing figures at cons is a given, their pricing is insane and over the top. I'm not gonna spend 70+ on a deluxe figure at all....even if it's hard to find. But 130 for a two figure pack that is just barely getting into the market at 89....I mean come on. If it were 100, yeah I'd probably pay for it, bit steep but I'd manage. 
86 for Swoop when he's around 60 is iffy....honestly I can still get him and save probably 10-12 bucks online and that's probably the direction I'll go in the end. 

[M'Kyuun]

10 hours ago, Hikuro said:

Considering these days finding missing figures at cons is a given, their pricing is insane and over the top. I'm not gonna spend 70+ on a deluxe figure at all....even if it's hard to find. But 130 for a two figure pack that is just barely getting into the market at 89....I mean come on. If it were 100, yeah I'd probably pay for it, bit steep but I'd manage. 
86 for Swoop when he's around 60 is iffy....honestly I can still get him and save probably 10-12 bucks online and that's probably the direction I'll go in the end. 

Honestly, I wouldn't doubt Hasbro will do package refreshes on some of the more popular characters like the Dinobots eventually. It'd be great if they announced these things to alleviate FOMO and give fans who may have missed the first release some peace of mind, but they don't, alas. Anyway, the fact that people, especially other fans, will shamelessly fleece other fans for stuff (across all fandoms, not just Transformers) speaks poorly of this era. I doubt it'll get better in time, and likely will worsen, but that doesn't mean history won't look back and recognize greed and generally screwing each other over as a positive. We're totally lost when it does.

Cons are the worst excuse for greed-driven mark-ups and gouging. We've come to accept it as part of the experience, but why? I imagine at one time many years ago they were the places to find good deals, but over time people saw an opportunity to separate their fellow fans from their money and the trend has just escalated to the point that a lot of stuff, especially retired items, are so highly priced that they're beyond the reach of many of us. It really pisses me off when I see something that's currently out on the market, I know the MSRP, I know where I can get it for that price, but for the sake of the convention, there's a substantial markup, sometimes nigh to or over twice the MSRP and I have to wonder if it's really necessary to screw over your fellow fans that way? But, generally, they're targeting the more casual fan who may not be heavy into collecting, sees a toy that reminds him or her of their childhood, and is unaware that the toy in question is currently out there at retail for far less money. I don't agree with it, but I see it happen.

Incidentally, while I've never been to a Transformers convention (yet!), I've been going to LEGO conventions for about a decade, and the same trend happens there. I've splurged, within reason, on retired sets (Classic Space!), I've seen the going prices for retired or rare Transformers on ebay, Amazon, etc, and it's definitely deflating. I mean, it's a toy, and in many cases, it's a toy that once cost $50 or less MSRP and now the price can run ten times that or well more. When prices are exorbitant like that, I figure I've lived without it this long and I can continue to do so. Paying my bills and having a comfortable, not extravagant, lifestyle is more important to me than the toy that got away.

[Hikuro]

see? Thats BS! I know this figure isn’t exactly out yet but come on! That’s total price gouging right there if there ever was. 

[M'Kyuun]

4 hours ago, Hikuro said:

see? Thats BS! I know this figure isn’t exactly out yet but come on! That’s total price gouging right there if there ever was. 

Yeah, that's total BS. $100 for a $35 toy that hasn't even released yet. I hope no one buys it.

Edited August 4 by M'Kyuun

[sh9000]

28 minutes ago, Hikuro said:

see? Thats BS! I know this figure isn’t exactly out yet but come on! That’s total price gouging right there if there ever was. 

That's a Combiner Wars Blast Off.

[Hikuro]

1 hour ago, sh9000 said:

That's a Combiner Wars Blast Off.

pffff you're right. ah that's still horrible either way lol. 

[M'Kyuun]

3 hours ago, sh9000 said:

That's a Combiner Wars Blast Off.

Regardless, that's rather steep. I have that figure, BTW, as I bought the Japanese CW Bruticus specifically to get Blast Off with a proper space shuttle mode instead of a jet. Like Hikuro, I didn't recognize that it was the Combiner Wars fig, thinking it was the new Legacy version.

[Tking22]

Did something odd happen to this thread over the weekend? I've been trying to keep up on the Bruticus news and and it seems some stuff got double posted, some got deleted, I thought I saw more pics of the new Blast Off somewhere but now I'm not seeing them. 

[mikeszekely]

1 hour ago, Tking22 said:

Did something odd happen to this thread over the weekend? I've been trying to keep up on the Bruticus news and and it seems some stuff got double posted, some got deleted, I thought I saw more pics of the new Blast Off somewhere but now I'm not seeing them. 

Not just over the weekend. At least twice now a several posts just vanished. Doesn't look like it was purposeful moderation, in one case it was basically every post over a 14-hour stretch. I don't know if it's happening in other topics or sections of the board, I noticed it hear because this is where I'm most active.

[lechuck]

https://www.taghobby.com/archives/792414

Approx. 30 cm in combined mode, Release March 2026, 54,000 Yen.

Props to Takara for pulling off that dynamic appearance from "Call of the Primitives" episode into toy form AND not compromising on articulation. I'll except that the individual bots are not quite at their best. I'm embracing this, so I guess that makes it a "deliciously terrible" Transformer. 😉

[Tking22]

Lol yeah I can't with stuff like that, far too much going on, never liked this combiner in the slightest. 

31 minutes ago, lechuck said:

I'm embracing this, so I guess that makes it a "deliciously terrible" Transformer. 😉

Lol let it go for once dude, I assure you, nobody cares that you're really into what Takara puts out. This is MW, you gotta accept it's not a TF site and more people will be critical of what Takara puts out, nothing wrong with that. 

[mikeszekely]

Price doesn't seem too bad... in yen, anyway. Actual import prices will affect my final decision.

EDIT: Nope, I'm out.  I just saw a photo of the prototype with MPG Super Ginrai, and Ginrai's a little bigger.  And since Ginrai is a little smaller than Legacy/AotP/SS Combiners, that means Predaking will be significantly smaller.  Doesn't work for me.

Edited August 6 by mikeszekely

[M'Kyuun]

6 minutes ago, Tking22 said:

Lol yeah I can't with stuff like that, far too much going on, never liked this combiner in the slightest. 

Lol let it go for once dude, I assure you, nobody cares that you're really into what Takara puts out. This is MW, you gotta accept it's not a TF site and more people will be critical of what Takara puts out, nothing wrong with that. 

Thanks Tking22. I appreciate your view on the situation.

43 minutes ago, lechuck said:

https://www.taghobby.com/archives/792414

Approx. 30 cm in combined mode, Release March 2026, 54,000 Yen.

Props to Takara for pulling off that dynamic appearance from "Call of the Primitives" episode into toy form AND not compromising on articulation. I'll except that the individual bots are not quite at their best. I'm embracing this, so I guess that makes it a "deliciously terrible" Transformer. 😉

First, I'm flattered that you embraced my oxymoronic phrase, and also by the spirit in which you used it. 😄👍Second, I'll not judge anyone for liking what they like, and whether or not this new Predaking is "deliciously terrible" or not will be entirely up to you. You seem enthusiastic about it, and I hope it exceeds expectations. It doesn't interest me personally, so I have no opinion. However, toys exist to bring joy, and as an owner of many, many toys, I've been pleasantly surprised by some and disappointed by others for all sorts of reasons. My hope for you is that this is one of the good ones- pleasantly surprising, fun, aesthetically pleasing, enjoyable to handle. Finally, thanks for sharing this here, as there may be other members to whom it appeals that may otherwise have gone unaware. It's one of the things I enjoy about this forum, whether sharing the info or benefitting from shared info.  (I'm generally on the latter side).

I hope you didn't take my colorful critique of Takara and their approach to aircraft alt-moded Transformers personally, as I meant no affront to anyone, except perhaps, Takara themselves, and even that in a light-hearted manner. If I offended, I apologize. I stand by my critique, however, but it's just one insignificant guy's opinion and at the end of the day, it is of no import. As a Transformers fan since it began in 1984, Takara's work is a very important part of my life and I generally applaud and support what they do, though I do have my niggles from time to time. 😉 Cheers!

[lechuck]

1 hour ago, Tking22 said:

Lol let it go for once dude,

It's lechuck, please not the dude thing. 😬

1 hour ago, Tking22 said:

I assure you, nobody cares that you're really into what Takara puts out.

Appreciate if you could try not to assume things about me or what I'm supposedly into. I take this sort of labelling a bit personal. Thanks.🤝

1 hour ago, Tking22 said:

This is MW, you gotta accept it's not a TF site and more people will be critical of what Takara puts out, nothing wrong with that. 

Not sure why the place of forum should make a difference, but yes you are absolutely right, nothing wrong with critiquing Takara or any other toy company here or elsewhere.

31 minutes ago, M'Kyuun said:

First, I'm flattered that you embraced my oxymoronic phrase, and also by the spirit in which you used it. 😄👍Second, I'll not judge anyone for liking what they like, and whether or not this new Predaking is "deliciously terrible" or not will be entirely up to you. You seem enthusiastic about it, and I hope it exceeds expectations. It doesn't interest me personally, so I have no opinion. However, toys exist to bring joy, and as an owner of many, many toys, I've been pleasantly surprised by some and disappointed by others for all sorts of reasons. My hope for you is that this is one of the good ones- pleasantly surprising, fun, aesthetically pleasing, enjoyable to handle. Finally, thanks for sharing this here, as there may be other members to whom it appeals that may otherwise have gone unaware. It's one of the things I enjoy about this forum, whether sharing the info or benefitting from shared info.  (I'm generally on the latter side).

I hope you didn't take my colorful critique of Takara and their approach to aircraft alt-moded Transformers personally, as I meant no affront to anyone, except perhaps, Takara themselves, and even that in a light-hearted manner. If I offended, I apologize. I stand by my critique, however, but it's just one insignificant guy's opinion and at the end of the day, it is of no import. As a Transformers fan since it began in 1984, Takara's work is a very important part of my life and I generally applaud and support what they do, though I do have my niggles from time to time. 😉 Cheers!

Haha... I was hoping you would get that nod. 😁👍 No worries all is good, no personal grudges being carried.

For full clarity, my contention with your posting was not with the criticism of Takara not making good fighter modes (you are fully entitled to that view), but more about the generalisation of others being mindless fans just taking anything that comes their way. You have that burning passion for aviation because of your profession/career, it's cool and so I can understand why you would go with more emotional words here. Maybe next time more diplomatic wording or maybe I'm just to emotional about this whole point – I don't know, but really that is all I have to say. 🙃😅

[M'Kyuun]

2 hours ago, lechuck said:

It's lechuck, please not the dude thing. 😬

Appreciate if you could try not to assume things about me or what I'm supposedly into. I take this sort of labelling a bit personal. Thanks.🤝

Not sure why the place of forum should make a difference, but yes you are absolutely right, nothing wrong with critiquing Takara or any other toy company here or elsewhere.

Haha... I was hoping you would get that nod. 😁👍 No worries all is good, no personal grudges being carried.

For full clarity, my contention with your posting was not with the criticism of Takara not making good fighter modes (you are fully entitled to that view), but more about the generalisation of others being mindless fans just taking anything that comes their way. You have that burning passion for aviation because of your profession/career, it's cool and so I can understand why you would go with more emotional words here. Maybe next time more diplomatic wording or maybe I'm just to emotional about this whole point – I don't know, but really that is all I have to say. 🙃😅

We're good, Lechuck, and your tone came through clearly. Appreciate the wink. 

I am indeed passionate about aircraft and that particular day, my cantankerous side was enflamed. As to my generalization of fans just accepting poor aviation alts, it's not without precedent, as I watch any number of reviews and I'm often struck by the praise given to these alt modes regardless of how poorly they're done. I can only imagine the ire, the pure umbrage that the fandom would have if Takara suddenly took the same design approach to cars, let's say perhaps Sideswipe, where his windshield and cabin were only half their normal width, the arms were outside of the doors just tabbed in, and the back wheel wells are completely enclosed with no wheels to speak of. That's my general reality with jet-moded Transformers- extreme inaccuracies that receive praise from both fans (on this and other notable TF forums) and by both reviewers and commentators on those reviews. Thus was the impetus for my generalized critique of the fandom at large. Perhaps I was a bit brusque about it, for which I tender my apology; it was meant in jest, but there's certainly a large element of my frustration coloring the tone of my little missive. Again, I meant no personal affront to anyone in particular (except a poke at Takara), and I'll try to be more mindful to avoid generalities when next I feel a charged rant ready to explode all over the page. Thanks for your comment, Lechuck. Again, I hope the new Predaking turns out to be a satisfying set of figures- always a great feeling.

[mikeszekely]

17 minutes ago, M'Kyuun said:

That's my general reality with jet-moded Transformers- extreme inaccuracies that receive praise from both fans (on this and other notable TF forums) and by both reviewers and commentators on those reviews.

😶

[M'Kyuun]

1 minute ago, mikeszekely said:

😶

I mention no names! 😄 

[Scyla]

I’m very excited about the AMT Predaking but for that price I’m expecting a high quality collectible from Takara.

No bare plastic, no hollow feeling toys, no mushy paint apps, no shoddy construction in the joints that have marred other collector lines from Takara in the past (especially the Masterpiece/MPG line).

From what I’ve seen in reviews of the AMT Rodimus the paint apps have not been the best so I’m a little bit anxious about Predaking.

I would have liked to experience the AMT line with a cheaper entry first but I have no desire to own Rodimus since I have the (imho) superior Kuro Kara Kuri one.

[danth]

13 hours ago, M'Kyuun said:

Thus was the impetus for my generalized critique of the fandom at large. Perhaps I was a bit brusque about it, for which I tender my apology; it was meant in jest, but there's certainly a large element of my frustration coloring the tone of my little missive. Again, I meant no personal affront to anyone in particular (except a poke at Takara), and I'll try to be more mindful to avoid generalities when next I feel a charged rant ready to explode all over the page.

I, personally, think an uncritical fandom deserve all the ridicule you can throw at them. And if anyone feels personally insulted, well...a hit dog hollers.

They do real harm, too, being a large part of why companies can get away with worse and worse products. 

[danth]

Oh, and furthermore, the people who get butthurt about poking fun at fanboyism at large will be the first to absolutely savage you if you dare to be slightly critical of anything they like. I mean full on harassment campaigns. I remember, years ago on the old MW forum, catching a guy red handed using multiple accounts to shill and attack me personally for some pretty mild criticism I had of the Yamato toys. 

[M'Kyuun]

23 minutes ago, danth said:

I, personally, think an uncritical fandom deserve all the ridicule you can throw at them. And if anyone feels personally insulted, well...a hit dog hollers.

They do real harm, too, being a large part of why companies can get away with worse and worse products. 

That's a fine line to tread, as opinions and tastes differ. What might seem awesome to you or me may absolutely rankle with another group of fans. Pleasing everyone is a difficult to nigh impossible chore, and for the most part, over the years, I think Takara, and Hasbro by extension, have done a decent, not perfect, job of it. However, I stand completely by criticism of Takara's approach to aircraft alts- there's nowhere even close to an equality there between ground vehicles and flying ones in terms of trying to capture realism and accuracy- aircraft, from the Diaclone toys onward, have gotten short shrift by way of engineering and care. Until they make a sea change in their approach, I will continue to call out poor aviation alt modes for the travesties that they are. However, in deference to Lechuck and other fans, I'll try to keep my criticism purely to the products and not the people who buy them. That said, do I agree that widespread fan acceptance of poor alt modes gives Takara license to continue in their approach? There's certainly an argument to be made there. I'll just leave it at that. 

As an addendum, purely from my own experience watching and reading reviews/comments on forums, I've noticed that many TF fans share only a very basic knowledge of aircraft and aircraft nomenclature, and admittedly, had I not worked around them for twenty years, I would likely be in the same boat. Macross fans seem far more inclined to know aviation terms and more specific workings of aircraft, especially military fighters, whereas TF fans are likely more knowledgeable of ground vehicles, hence their easier acceptance of highly inaccurate, disproportional jet modes. That knowledge gap may play a part in Takara's longstanding deviation from accuracy in their aviation alt modes, as I doubt they receive much negative feedback. Too, I've noticed that TF fans tend to care more about the look of the robot modes, especially their likeness to media, be it G1, Bayverse, etc than the alt modes, especially jets, compared to the majority of Macross fans, many of whom prefer to keep their Macross toys in fighter modes and are far more critical of said fighter modes. These are my observations after decades of fandom in both IPs. FWIW, I keep both my TFs and my Macross valks in bot/battroid modes, although I am enamored with the majority of the many valks' aircraft modes. Kawamori designs a beautiful jet.

I'll finish with a shout out to @mikeszekely, our own Transformers reviewer extraordinaire, for his diligence in using proper aircraft terminology in his reviews. I greatly appreciate the effort, as I'm sure do our other resident aircraft afficionados as well. I wish more TF reviewers followed your lead.

 

47 minutes ago, danth said:

Oh, and furthermore, the people who get butthurt about poking fun at fanboyism at large will be the first to absolutely savage you if you dare to be slightly critical of anything they like. I mean full on harassment campaigns. I remember, years ago on the old MW forum, catching a guy red handed using multiple accounts to shill and attack me personally for some pretty mild criticism I had of the Yamato toys. 

I don't understand that level of personal effrontery over a product, but then again, for most of my life, especially life before the internet, I bought what I liked in isolation without knowing or caring what anyone else thought about it. I did, however, admittedly, keep my toy buying on the downlow in my twenties out of fear of peer condemnation. I think that, and extreme frugality on my part, kept me from buying more, to my current regret. Oh, how I wish I could go back and pick up a lot more Space LEGO sets, but I digress. I'm glad you caught the guy who was harassing you and hopefully they were ejected from the premises with a stoic boot to the behind.

[mikeszekely]

I try to be mindful of price, because budget constraints are real. So I'll put up with more on a Deluxe than I will a Leader, and more on a Leader than an MP. It's why I might look at a figure like Studio Series Devastation Optimus and think it's fine, but be fairly critical of MPG Super Ginrai.

Regarding planes, I've said before that they're proportionally thinner than most cars and I don't know what more Hasbro can do on a Voyager (or worse, Deluxe) budget than a block of robot with wings and a nose. The fact that they're beholden to Sunbow accuracy for robot mode doesn't do them any favors, either. Sure, Kawamori does way better with his Valkyries, but he can work backward from the Fighter mode and the cheapest Macross toys are 3-4x the price of a similar-sized Transformer (without having to meet the same US toys safety laws). So, yeah, maybe I'm cutting the AotP Aerialbots a little slack. They're far from perfect, but they're at least better than the Combiner Wars versions.

[Scyla]

I preordered AMT Predaking and Missing Link Nemesis Prime today.

Predaking will go on my Super Robot shelf next to Amakuni Genesis GaoGaiGar, the Arcadia DYRL? SDF-1 and the SoC Gunbuster.

Nemesis Prime will be an interesting experience. To this day I never experienced G1 Optimus so I’m looking forward to it (I could have done without the trailer though).

 I didn’t plan to go in on the Missing Link line but now with Cliffjumper and Nemesis Prime two of my go to characters are either out or announced, so I’m looking forward to ML Skywarp, Galvatron, Cyclonus and Laserwave. 

[lechuck]

 

25 minutes ago, Scyla said:

I preordered AMT Predaking and Missing Link Nemesis Prime today.

Predaking will go on my Super Robot shelf next to Amakuni Genesis GaoGaiGar, the Arcadia DYRL? SDF-1 and the SoC Gunbuster.

I'm thinking within the same lines, Predaking's head height looks to be about 25 cm, so to me he is a match to go up against my Riobot Dancouga. 

[danth]

1 hour ago, M'Kyuun said:

That's a fine line to tread, as opinions and tastes differ. What might seem awesome to you or me may absolutely rankle with another group of fans. Pleasing everyone is a difficult to nigh impossible chore, and for the most part, over the years, I think Takara, and Hasbro by extension, have done a decent, not perfect, job of it. However, I stand completely by criticism of Takara's approach to aircraft alts- there's nowhere even close to an equality there between ground vehicles and flying ones in terms of trying to capture realism and accuracy- aircraft, from the Diaclone toys onward, have gotten short shrift by way of engineering and care. Until they make a sea change in their approach, I will continue to call out poor aviation alt modes for the travesties that they are. However, in deference to Lechuck and other fans, I'll try to keep my criticism purely to the products and not the people who buy them.

You're right. I was being a little hot headed. 

I am honestly fine with people liking things uncritically. I was more talking about people who are militantly uncritical, and will not only write lengthy defenses of toys and their manufactures, but mount attacks on those who are critical, essentially acting as opinion police. I've seen them over and over on pretty much every fan website I've been on, including MacrossWorld (in the old days, but thankfully not recently). I've been on the receiving end of their ire enough times that I reflexively think of those kind of people as "uncritical" fans. Which is probably not fair to the average person who just likes toys without picking them apart they way we might. 

[pengbuzz]

2 hours ago, M'Kyuun said:

That's a fine line to tread, as opinions and tastes differ. What might seem awesome to you or me may absolutely rankle with another group of fans. Pleasing everyone is a difficult to nigh impossible chore, and for the most part, over the years, I think Takara, and Hasbro by extension, have done a decent, not perfect, job of it. However, I stand completely by criticism of Takara's approach to aircraft alts- there's nowhere even close to an equality there between ground vehicles and flying ones in terms of trying to capture realism and accuracy- aircraft, from the Diaclone toys onward, have gotten short shrift by way of engineering and care. Until they make a sea change in their approach, I will continue to call out poor aviation alt modes for the travesties that they are. However, in deference to Lechuck and other fans, I'll try to keep my criticism purely to the products and not the people who buy them. That said, do I agree that widespread fan acceptance of poor alt modes gives Takara license to continue in their approach? There's certainly an argument to be made there. I'll just leave it at that. 

As an addendum, purely from my own experience watching and reading reviews/comments on forums, I've noticed that many TF fans share only a very basic knowledge of aircraft and aircraft nomenclature, and admittedly, had I not worked around them for twenty years, I would likely be in the same boat. Macross fans seem far more inclined to know aviation terms and more specific workings of aircraft, especially military fighters, whereas TF fans are likely more knowledgeable of ground vehicles, hence their easier acceptance of highly inaccurate, disproportional jet modes. That knowledge gap may play a part in Takara's longstanding deviation from accuracy in their aviation alt modes, as I doubt they receive much negative feedback. Too, I've noticed that TF fans tend to care more about the look of the robot modes, especially their likeness to media, be it G1, Bayverse, etc than the alt modes, especially jets, compared to the majority of Macross fans, many of whom prefer to keep their Macross toys in fighter modes and are far more critical of said fighter modes. These are my observations after decades of fandom in both IPs. FWIW, I keep both my TFs and my Macross valks in bot/battroid modes, although I am enamored with the majority of the many valks' aircraft modes. Kawamori designs a beautiful jet.

I'll finish with a shout out to @mikeszekely, our own Transformers reviewer extraordinaire, for his diligence in using proper aircraft terminology in his reviews. I greatly appreciate the effort, as I'm sure do our other resident aircraft afficionados as well. I wish more TF reviewers followed your lead.

 

I don't understand that level of personal effrontery over a product, but then again, for most of my life, especially life before the internet, I bought what I liked in isolation without knowing or caring what anyone else thought about it. I did, however, admittedly, keep my toy buying on the downlow in my twenties out of fear of peer condemnation. I think that, and extreme frugality on my part, kept me from buying more, to my current regret. Oh, how I wish I could go back and pick up a lot more Space LEGO sets, but I digress. I'm glad you caught the guy who was harassing you and hopefully they were ejected from the premises with a stoic boot to the behind.

I think the following sums it up, personally:

 

[M'Kyuun]

8 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

I think the following sums it up, personally:

 

Yep, the chorus sums it up nicely.  Haven't heard that song in a long time so I appreciate the reminder.

[M'Kyuun]

10 hours ago, mikeszekely said:

Regarding planes, I've said before that they're proportionally thinner than most cars and I don't know what more Hasbro can do on a Voyager (or worse, Deluxe) budget than a block of robot with wings and a nose. The fact that they're beholden to Sunbow accuracy for robot mode doesn't do them any favors, either. Sure, Kawamori does way better with his Valkyries, but he can work backward from the Fighter mode and the cheapest Macross toys are 3-4x the price of a similar-sized Transformer (without having to meet the same US toys safety laws). So, yeah, maybe I'm cutting the AotP Aerialbots a little slack. They're far from perfect, but they're at least better than the Combiner Wars versions.

Part of the problem is that Takara & Hasbro shrink the jets so that the robot modes will all be roughly compatible. However, most jets are much larger than cars. The F-15 is over 63 feet long, roughly 5.5 to 6 feet tall from the bottom of the forward fuselage to the top of the canopy, 18 feet tall from the ground on extended gear to the tops of the vertical stabs, the fuselage from intake to intake is about 9 feet wide, it's nearly 43 feet from wingtip to wingtip, and the C series, likely the inspiration for the Seeker, weighs 27,000  lbs empty. It is a big machine, much larger than the average car. If they scaled TFs with fighter modes appropriately, most would need to be leader scale relative to deluxe and voyager scaled cars. Larger planes, like Silverbolt's Concorde mode, would have to be upscaled tremendously (and, I realize, unrealistically) to scale properly with the average car bot. Scaling definitely makes a difference, but I must point out that Takara rarely uses the forward fuselage to form any part of the bot and it usually just hangs off the bot's back as so much kibble. Same with Concordes or SR-71s- all that lovely long fuselage which could be made to encapsulate arms and part of a torso, but they never use it as such. 

Considering all of Kawamori's valk designs which approximate real world aircraft, and all of his variations in planform and transformation schemas, I think the problem lies with Takara's exceptionally narrow approach to designing transformable jets and less with their proportions. They can make very small cars and motorcycles transform with well-integrated robot parts in the alt modes, so jets should offer far more real-estate, and thus creative options, to utilize towards realizing a robot mode. Too, look what Touch Toys is accomplishing. I realize we're well beyond the scope of what Takara and Hasbro can produce at their budgets and other limitations, but still, they're pulling off some impressive engineering.

On the other end of the scale, I think Newage came up with a brilliant schema for their Seekers. I love how they used the chest intake bits to form part of the lower forward fuselage, thus eliminating that bit of kibble for a more accurate F-15. It's still not perfect, as the legs don't have the proper taper to the augmenters, the intake ramps aren't quite the right shape, and parts of the arms protrude from the belly. However, unlike pretty much every official Seeker except MP-03 and variants, the bottom of the forward fuselage reaches to nearly the base of the inlets, which is accurate to the real jet. I hate it when they put a foreshortened forward fuselage on their jetformers- it's analogous to making the entire cabin section of a car only half of its normal width.