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HG and Robotech Debates


azrael
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I just watched Shadow Chronicles again. It's alright, but it definitely isn't the best mecha anime movie out there. Is it just me or was Alex's death just kind of shoehorned? You can't even feel bad when he dies or anything, you know?

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I just watched Shadow Chronicles again. It's alright, but it definitely isn't the best mecha anime movie out there. Is it just me or was Alex's death just kind of shoehorned? You can't even feel bad when he dies or anything, you know?

He had crosshairs on his forehead the moment he opened his mouth. (or hummed or whistled, whichever it was he did first)

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He had crosshairs on his forehead the moment he opened his mouth. (or hummed or whistled, whichever it was he did first)

The worst part about that, was that character-wise, I thought he was a much cooler character than Marcus, or just about anyone in the show for that matter. He wasn't so emo and a butt-hurt pilot. Ah well, just made it easier to mentally tune out when I saw it.

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I just watched Shadow Chronicles again. It's alright, but it definitely isn't the best mecha anime movie out there. Is it just me or was Alex's death just kind of shoehorned? You can't even feel bad when he dies or anything, you know?

Shoehorned? It was abrupt and felt out of place, I'll give you that... but I don't think it counts as being shoehorned in when they had clearly marked the guy for death from the word "go". Hell, I think the reason his character design dropped around 100lb was so his role as the spiky-haired ersatz-Kakizaki death-bait wouldn't be quite so transparent.

The worst part about that, was that character-wise, I thought he was a much cooler character than Marcus, or just about anyone in the show for that matter. He wasn't so emo and a butt-hurt pilot. Ah well, just made it easier to mentally tune out when I saw it.

I liked Alex more than the rest of the cast, because I was hoping they'd all kick the bucket and he was the only one who obliged...

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Along the lines of rewatching Shadow Chronicles, I'm re-reading The Sentinels comic as a way to test out reading comics on my Kindle. I never realized how many plot holes and inconsistencies were present in the story which is surprising since it was restricted like the "original" series. The art is also worse than I remember.

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Along the lines of rewatching Shadow Chronicles, I'm re-reading The Sentinels comic as a way to test out reading comics on my Kindle. I never realized how many plot holes and inconsistencies were present in the story which is surprising since it was restricted like the "original" series. The art is also worse than I remember.

That's probably cause you're not hopped up on a drug called nostalgia. Nostalgia will turn a lot of people into mindless turds. Too many cases for that point, so, insert your favorite RT elitist fringe runner.

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Along the lines of rewatching Shadow Chronicles, I'm re-reading The Sentinels comic as a way to test out reading comics on my Kindle. I never realized how many plot holes and inconsistencies were present in the story which is surprising since it was restricted like the "original" series. The art is also worse than I remember.

Yeah, I know... and the weird bit is that you almost always want to go into it expecting something better than what you actually get in Jason and John Waltrip's Sentinels series because so many Robotech fans hold those up as pretty much THE BEST title out of all pre-reboot Robotech comics. On the whole, it's pretty dreadful stuff, but since the first issue of Robotech: Prelude to the Shadow Chronicles is just a scene-for-scene repeat of the last issue before the Sentinels comics were canceled, you can go right from that to Shadow Chronicles if you actually wanted to.:lol:

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You know, I was just thinking back to some old robotech dialogue I thought I had forgotten. It was in one of the early Macross episodes when a briefing/pep-talk was going on. Then somebody said something to the effect of "gentlemen, you need only remember one thing, "robotech." And it seems that the current shadow squad gang have taken this policy to heart.

It's sad that I remember which episode that line was in, too. Episode 6 "Blitzkrieg" during the briefing right before the Battle at Saturn's Rings.
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I know there are people out there that like it just because it may have some campy fun, and I'm not knocking on that. A lot of people like certain things that other may find stupid, odd, or even strange. I guess it's a question of how much fervor is going into all that. I have all those comics, and while they are pretty bad in reference to all the other great comics out there (Masamune Shiro's Ghost In the Shell comes to mind), reading them and taking them in their context doesn't make them as bad as they actually are.

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One of the problems I had with TSC were the very inconsistent character models. I think this may be in part to having 3 different directors. At some points, some characters looked good other times, I felt like they looked completely different.

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Oh yes, I love those beautiful Dong-Wook Lee character designs. You can tell he's a Macross Plus veteran. It's so breathtaking how wonderfully they complement the masterful artistic stylings of Tommy Yune. They did such a great job with Antwon I mean Vince's face and his shoulders are 5 heads apart, just like they're supposed to be. Never have I seen such great artwork.

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Along the lines of rewatching Shadow Chronicles, I'm re-reading The Sentinels comic as a way to test out reading comics on my Kindle. I never realized how many plot holes and inconsistencies were present in the story which is surprising since it was restricted like the "original" series. The art is also worse than I remember.

I liked Invid War, and the Malcontent Uprisings. They seemed to have the best plot of all the series.

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I liked Invid War, and the Malcontent Uprisings. They seemed to have the best plot of all the series.

To me, they're like reading/watching cheesy 1960 and 70 B-movie sci-fi stories and movies. They're intended for the popcorn gorging fun when you have no alternative for entertainment. Back when these were on the stands, this was the only Robotech stuff really coming out, so it was, and the fans ate it up. Some of it, is pretty good, but in reference to the other Robotech stories and comic series that were out. I have actually read some of the series as of recent, and they don't have the deep, hard hitting plots that they seemed to have back in the day. Again, my opinion, or at least to me, they were all the Robotech that was out there, aside from expensive VHS tapes, so a lot of the feelings back then were nostalgia driven.

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I liked Invid War, and the Malcontent Uprisings. They seemed to have the best plot of all the series.

I don't even remember the Invid War series but I remember the Malcontent Uprisings being a cool idea. Too bad the art was totally horrendous. Still, you gotta give those old indie comic companies props for trying to continue and expand the Robotech storyline. I wish HG would try to do the same but I guess they'd need a brand new batch of employees.

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One of the potential problems I could see facing new Robotech comics is that the Wildstorm series were done by artist from UDON. AT the time (early 2000's) they were still relatively new. Now however, UDON is huge and has a solid following so the price for their services has mostly likely increased significantly. On top of that, the UDON stable is one of the few that specialize in the anime look which limits HG's options. People say that Tommy can draw them himself however in reality his style is not as "anime-ish" as some people think.

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I've been thinking recently that HG has really been taking advantage of what the makers of Astro Plan were able to do with the blatant rip off of Gundam and Macross material without legal actions against them. Also, I'm reminded about the time when, IIRC, a life size Gundam knockoff somewhere in China was built and it took a while for the people behind it to take it down for legal reasons. It could be one of the reasons why they're focusing a lot of their attention (merchandising) in places like China right now. That, or because it's both cheaper and more profitable for them to follow the real money rather than their normal bases.

Who knows, HG may even follow Star Blazer's lead and try to convince the Syfy channel to show reruns of Robo-Tech. Anything to regain relevance (but more importantly money), right?

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Does China have a copyright laws? I remember hearing about well known manga's being plagiarized in China. On another note, it seems that Memo is convinced that a pic in the TPB that was taken from an episode of Mospeada/New Gen is new animation.

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Does China have a copyright laws? I remember hearing about well known manga's being plagiarized in China. On another note, it seems that Memo is convinced that a pic in the TPB that was taken from an episode of Mospeada/New Gen is new animation.

It does, it just is not enforced.

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One of the problems I had with TSC were the very inconsistent character models. I think this may be in part to having 3 different directors. At some points, some characters looked good other times, I felt like they looked completely different.

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One of the problems I had with TSC were the very inconsistent character models. I think this may be in part to having 3 different directors. At some points, some characters looked good other times, I felt like they looked completely different.

Quite understandable... it was quite disconcerting how frequently the character animation ended up being off-model, and it only got more obvious once I had the AoTSC book to refer to. Given what we know of the Shadow Chronicles film's circumstances, the most likely explanation for all the spotty and off-model animation in Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles is that the film's minuscule budget didn't permit the third-string bush-league animators working on it enough leeway to do the job right and forced them to cut a LOT of corners along the way. The character animation wasn't the only area where they had problems and cut corners either... the Alphas and ships had a lot of issues too.

I've been thinking recently that HG has really been taking advantage of what the makers of Astro Plan were able to do with the blatant rip off of Gundam and Macross material without legal actions against them. Also, I'm reminded about the time when, IIRC, a life size Gundam knockoff somewhere in China was built and it took a while for the people behind it to take it down for legal reasons. It could be one of the reasons why they're focusing a lot of their attention (merchandising) in places like China right now. That, or because it's both cheaper and more profitable for them to follow the real money rather than their normal bases.

Really, I suspect the reason for their sudden interest in China is a lot simpler... they saw Astro Plan and realized that China was a country that didn't see anything wrong with a ripoff, and resolved to peddle their ripoff products there in the hopes of making an easy buck.

Who knows, HG may even follow Star Blazer's lead and try to convince the Syfy channel to show reruns of Robo-Tech. Anything to regain relevance (but more importantly money), right?

Oh, they can try... I doubt they would bother, after the reaction Canada's equivalent of Syfy (SPACE) had to running Robotech. They dumped the show in a time slot that virtually guaranteed nobody would watch it.

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You can also put a lot of blame on lack of oversight from anyone "in charge" of the project. Anyone who would know what they're doing in production wouldn't have had certain things simply fall through the cracks like they did. Crappy animation, cinematography, dull characters, a dull plot, and mistakes like one shot having Scott in his armor, and the next scene it not on, is again, lack of oversight and experience. They can blame the budget all they want, but that only accounts for some of the issues. The rest of it is just from people with lack of production experience pretending like they do know what they're doing.

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Does China have a copyright laws? I remember hearing about well known manga's being plagiarized in China. On another note, it seems that Memo is convinced that a pic in the TPB that was taken from an episode of Mospeada/New Gen is new animation.

But the publisher says it's from the new animation so it must be new. Ridiculous...

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Does anyone have an idea of what the budget was? The reason I ask is that when compared to even a regular anime episode, the movie was still sub par.

According to Tommy Yune, the total budget for Shadow Chronicles was less than $1 million USD... and it seems like a fair bit of that went to the voice actor budget, being that most of the original Robotech cast now belongs to the Screen Actors Guild and hiring Mark Hamill can't have been cheap either.

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OK so let me get this straight, I have been told that RT3000 cost more then all of Shadow Chronicles. Also prior to Tommy and co. joining HG, the previous group of management was trying to create an anime version of RT3000 after the cgi footage failed to please audiences.....so given that information(not sure how accurate that is), why not pour more money into Shadow Chronicles if they were willing to fund a series only a short time prior?

Now I am sure there was some funding available if they were willing to produce two series within in short periods of time of the others collapse. Also at the time, from what I have heard, Robotech DVDs sold fairly well adding another revenue source. All this combines to make me wonder why Shadow Chronicles was so meager in budget (inexperience on Tommy's part no withstanding).

Edited by Richardmvela
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Maybe the budget was low because they might of been scared of not getting much return. Or they simply thought that the fans would just eat it up and would make a pretty big return, as they say RT fans were wanting more RT story. And hopefully drag more fans over.

Still that is small for an animated movie though. Did someone say it was only 1 mill? That is pretty small for any animated movie. (Hearing this makes me think of the Simpsons episode where they have the guys under armed guard making the "Itchy and Skratchy" movie, making it like a prison camp. Animate of die)

Back to work for me ...lol

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Does China have a copyright laws? I remember hearing about well known manga's being plagiarized in China. On another note, it seems that Memo is convinced that a pic in the TPB that was taken from an episode of Mospeada/New Gen is new animation.

Oh my gawd guys, he should totally do a podcast about it. :lol:

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OK so let me get this straight, I have been told that RT3000 cost more then all of Shadow Chronicles.

Hm... not sure where you heard that, but I remember seeing someone ask Tommy how much Harmony Gold lost when Robotech 3000 went under, and he said that it was about half what they spent on Shadow Chronicles.

Also prior to Tommy and co. joining HG, the previous group of management was trying to create an anime version of RT3000 after the cgi footage failed to please audiences.....so given that information(not sure how accurate that is), why not pour more money into Shadow Chronicles if they were willing to fund a series only a short time prior?

That much is true... under Carl Macek's direction, Harmony Gold tried to salvage the Robotech 3000 concept after Netter Digital declared bankruptcy by partnering with Tatsunoko to produce the series by traditional means. The project got as far as a couple pieces of concept art before senior management pulled the plug, dismissed those responsible, and brought in Tommy Yune as creative director to reboot the franchise. If you take what Tommy and co. have said at face value, they won't sink more money into Robotech because they don't see it as a safe investment. They were probably a lot more optimistic about their chances during development of Robotech 3000, since Robotech had been airing on Cartoon Network's Toonami block... though CN dropped it before reaching the New Generation. Nobody wants to invest in a property that has failed THAT many times in a row, so they're having difficulty raising the money to exceed the shoddy level of quality presented by Shadow Chronicles, and they won't make a series because no network is willing to give them an episode commitment.

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That much is true... under Carl Macek's direction, Harmony Gold tried to salvage the Robotech 3000 concept after Netter Digital declared bankruptcy by partnering with Tatsunoko to produce the series by traditional means. The project got as far as a couple pieces of concept art before senior management pulled the plug, dismissed those responsible, and brought in Tommy Yune as creative director to reboot the franchise. If you take what Tommy and co. have said at face value, they won't sink more money into Robotech because they don't see it as a safe investment. They were probably a lot more optimistic about their chances during development of Robotech 3000, since Robotech had been airing on Cartoon Network's Toonami block... though CN dropped it before reaching the New Generation. Nobody wants to invest in a property that has failed THAT many times in a row, so they're having difficulty raising the money to exceed the shoddy level of quality presented by Shadow Chronicles, and they won't make a series because no network is willing to give them an episode commitment.

If this is the case, then was Macek a part of the original version of RT3000? If not,then if he was able to get Tatsu to at least consider working on a new animated series, to me that is much more then what we have gotten on Tonny's watch. Also did he live after that fell through because I was under the impression that he had only come back to HG for the new project they are working on and that he had been gone for a while.

Edited by Richardmvela
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if this is the case, then was Macek a part of the original version of RT3000?

Yes, he was Robotech 3000's writer and director... which really says a lot about his creative abilities. :rolleyes:

If not,then if he was able to get Tatsu to at least consider working on a new animated series, to me that is much more then what we have gotten on Tonny's watch. Also did he live after that fell through because I was under the impression that he had only come back to HG for the new project they are working on and that he had been gone for a while.

Not sure why you're asking if Carl lived after Robotech 3000 fell through... you know he did. Robotech 3000 was canceled in 2000, and he later worked as a script writer for Viz's dubs of Naruto and Bleach before being invited back in an advisory capacity as some kind of grandiose gesture for the 25th Anniversary in 2010. Tommy claims that the side-story project was Carl's brainchild, but that may or may not actually be true...

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