HG and Robotech Debates

[chrisk]

Whatever proof you throw at this guy, he just ain't listening. I say we cut our losses, and just be glad as hell Harmony Gold doesn't have access to the Macross character designs. Serves em' right!

[terry the lone wolf]

Okay, you were long on rhetoric and short on sense before... but now you've crossed the line into full-blown unintelligibility. I'd ask what you were talking about, but I'm not sure even you know anymore.

I'm still trying to find out why is it HG's job to list all the people that worked on Macross where work was done on work for hire status and the company that owns it is a ad agency?

[Seto Kaiba]

Whatever proof you throw at this guy, he just ain't listening. I say we cut our losses, and just be glad as hell Harmony Gold doesn't have access to the Macross character designs. Serves em' right!

Like I said, he's long on rhetoric and short on sense... it's a sad affliction that far too many vocal defenders of Robotech suffer from. It is extremely fortunate that Harmony Gold can't use the original Macross character and mecha designs in new shows, it forces them to try to make something tolerable out of the weaker shows they added to Macross to get up syndication length instead of riding Macross's coattails even more shamelessly than they already do.

I'm still trying to find out why is it HG's job to list all the people that worked on Macross where work was done on work for hire status and the company that owns it is a ad agency?

This should be self-explanatory, but the reason that Harmony Gold ought to be crediting the people whose hard work and talent actually created the material that makes up Robotech is that they didn't make it themselves. It's not their work, it's them rewriting someone else's existing work. The original creators at Studio Nue, Artmic, etc. and the owners of those original shows should be credited because Harmony Gold is basing Robotech on their hard work and creative vision. Is that so hard to understand.

[terry the lone wolf]

[

This should be self-explanatory, but the reason that Harmony Gold ought to be crediting the people whose hard work and talent actually created the material that makes up Robotech is that they didn't make it themselves. It's not their work, it's them rewriting someone else's existing work. The original creators at Studio Nue, Artmic, etc. and the owners of those original shows should be credited because Harmony Gold is basing Robotech on their hard work and creative vision. Is that so hard to understand.

Those people have been paid already for their hard work and now the big corporation owns their hard work. They can sell, rent, or lease their hard work for all sorts of cash. You're so busy trying to paint HG as the bad guy but there's a lot of bad guys in this mix.

Edited October 19, 2010 by terry the lone wolf

[Seto Kaiba]

Those people have been paid already for their hard work and now the big corporation owns their hard work. They can sell, rent, or lease their hard work for all sorts of cash. You're so busy trying to paint HG as the bad guy but there's a lot of bad guys in this mix.

One day, you're going to learn to make sure you understand the situation before you post.

Today is obviously not that day.

For starters, in the film industry it's considered standard practice to acknowledge the people who were involved in the production process in the show's credits. In some cases, particularly where various guilds are involved, it isn't optional and there are actually lengthy sets of rules to determine how various contributors are credited for their contributions. The reason George Lucas resigned from the Director's Guild of America was because he got fined $250,000 for not crediting the director in the opening title sequence. Even without guild involvement, the fact remains that it's insulting in the extreme to adapt an author's work and then not credit him for creating the original... and that's exactly what Harmony Gold did. At the very least, they ought to have also credited Studio Nue, Artland, Ammonite, and Artmic for their involvement in creating the original shows.

Secondly, as you should already know unless you're breathtakingly dense, Tatsunoko isn't sole owner of the original Super Dimension Fortress Macross series. Their ability to manipulate it is limited by the parts of it they actually own and the rights they were granted to it under their agreement with Big West. To put it simply, it's jointly owned... if they're going to credit one owner, they ought to credit the other as well.

Lastly, if you actually understood the situation at all, you would probably understand that we're not trying to paint Harmony Gold as anything. Harmony Gold has provided abundant proof that they're jackasses, and we treat them accordingly. Big West and Studio Nue didn't kick off the legal tiff with Tatsunoko, it was started by Harmony Gold's attempts to block importation of Macross merchandise. The only thing that Macross's creators have done in all this is they refused to let Harmony Gold force them into giving them approvals over stateside Macross licensing and an undeserved share of the revenue using their dubious trademark. That's not being a "bad guy", that's being a smart and ethical businessman. What Harmony Gold is doing is, by any other name, extortion. The facts point to only one bad guy (Harmony Gold), and one company that doesn't see a sufficient potential return on investment in taking Harmony Gold to court to make them stop acting like twats (Big West).

[terry the lone wolf]

One day, you're going to learn to make sure you understand the situation before you post.

Today is obviously not that day.

For starters, in the film industry it's considered standard practice to acknowledge the people who were involved in the production process in the show's credits. In some cases, particularly where various guilds are involved, it isn't optional and there are actually lengthy sets of rules to determine how various contributors are credited for their contributions. The reason George Lucas resigned from the Director's Guild of America was because he got fined $250,000 for not crediting the director in the opening title sequence. Even without guild involvement, the fact remains that it's insulting in the extreme to adapt an author's work and then not credit him for creating the original... and that's exactly what Harmony Gold did. At the very least, they ought to have also credited Studio Nue, Artland, Ammonite, and Artmic for their involvement in creating the original shows.

Secondly, as you should already know unless you're breathtakingly dense, Tatsunoko isn't sole owner of the original Super Dimension Fortress Macross series. Their ability to manipulate it is limited by the parts of it they actually own and the rights they were granted to it under their agreement with Big West. To put it simply, it's jointly owned... if they're going to credit one owner, they ought to credit the other as well.

Lastly, if you actually understood the situation at all, you would probably understand that we're not trying to paint Harmony Gold as anything. Harmony Gold has provided abundant proof that they're jackasses, and we treat them accordingly. Big West and Studio Nue didn't kick off the legal tiff with Tatsunoko, it was started by Harmony Gold's attempts to block importation of Macross merchandise. The only thing that Macross's creators have done in all this is they refused to let Harmony Gold force them into giving them approvals over stateside Macross licensing and an undeserved share of the revenue using their dubious trademark. That's not being a "bad guy", that's being a smart and ethical businessman. What Harmony Gold is doing is, by any other name, extortion. The facts point to only one bad guy (Harmony Gold), and one company that doesn't see a sufficient potential return on investment in taking Harmony Gold to court to make them stop acting like twats (Big West).

Maybe one day you'll stop misinterpreting what I said. I never said Tatsunoko was the sole owner of Macross rights. I don't feel Big West is the wounded party in this. They gave up their international rights to get the series finished and tap Tatsunoko's resources. You're trying to hold HG to some unrealistic higher standard. They have to credit this one or that one. The groups of artists and designers were working under work for higher or freelancing. I could see if HG licensed Macross directly from the creators but this was a anime making factory that exploited freelance workers from different studios. Out of all the studios that were involved Tatsunoko had the international distribution and merchandising rights so they sub-leased to HG.

[Seto Kaiba]

Maybe one day you'll stop misinterpreting what I said. [...] I don't feel Big West is the wounded party in this.

Kind of hard to interpret that as anything other than a clear indication that you don't understand the situation.

You're trying to hold HG to some unrealistic higher standard. They have to credit this one or that one.

How is that holding Harmony Gold to an unrealistically high standard when their contemporaries managed to credit the original creators of the shows they were rewriting (e.g. StarBlazers), and for ages now it's been the industry standard to credit the original cast and crew as well as the English dub staff? If everyone else in the industry is already doing it as standard operating procedure, there's nothing unrealistic about expecting HG to follow suit. Hell, even if we excuse the omission of the actual creators from the original credits, that still won't excuse their omission from the redone credits sequence they did just a few years ago for Robotech Remastered. Even back then, they clearly knew who was involved in making each show. It wouldn't have been at all difficult to credit them for their work then or now.

[terry the lone wolf]

What am I not understanding? Big West is not a ad company that employed freelance work or they didn't sell their international distribution and merchandising rights to Tatsunoko to fund and finish the production of the series?

Edited October 19, 2010 by terry the lone wolf

[Keith]

Sounds like BW put the screws to Studio Nue & Artland for making that deal with Tatasunoko that led to Macross just being added to the Tatsunoko Machine and not standing out as its own entity.

How are you breaking the quote script, it's automatic, all you have to do is leave it alone if you don't know what you're doing. Also, no, it doesn't sound like that at all, Big West represented all the major players involved in court to afirm their "rightful" ownership of the intellectual properties that comprise Macross. You're argument is equal parts inane & wrong.

[chrisk]

Big West represented all the major players involved in court to afirm their "rightful" ownership of the intellectual properties that comprise Macross. You're argument is equal parts inane & wrong.

Truth be told, a lot of hardcore Robotech fans involved in the 'debate' simplify a lot of things to support their little theories. Remember that little roundabout with Memo a few months back? God, that was pointless.

[terry the lone wolf]

How are you breaking the quote script, it's automatic, all you have to do is leave it alone if you don't know what you're doing. Also, no, it doesn't sound like that at all, Big West represented all the major players involved in court to afirm their "rightful" ownership of the intellectual properties that comprise Macross. You're argument is equal parts inane & wrong.

Court docs prove scripts and audio were owned by Tatsunoko Pro. I hear a lot of talk that HG rewrote scripts and disrespected the original source material. Maybe wording could be changed because they owned them anyway?

Oh Keith, I'll watch the quotes if you keep a check on your spelling..

[Beltane70]

Oh Keith, I'll watch the quotes if you keep a check on your spelling..

So says the guy who wrote higher instead of hire in the sentence, "The groups of artists and designers were working under work for higher or freelancing.".

[Keith]

Court docs prove scripts and audio were owned by Tatsunoko Pro. I hear a lot of talk that HG rewrote scripts and disrespected the original source material. Maybe wording could be changed because they owned them anyway?

Oh Keith, I'll watch the quotes if you keep a check on your spelling..

You can't make me care any more about spell check than I don't. Also, no, court case did not say Tatsunoko owned the scripts, it said Tatsunoko woned the final produced animation (which the audio was included in) with rights to distribute it outside of Japan (along with merch).

[chrisk]

You can't make me care any more about spell check than I don't. Also, no, court case did not say Tatsunoko owned the scripts, it said Tatsunoko woned the final produced animation (which the audio was included in) with rights to distribute it outside of Japan (along with merch).

Wait.

Can't be reasoned with?

Spell checks people when being presented facts?

Thinks Harmony Gold is in the right?

Troll.

[Keith]

Wait.

Can't be reasoned with?

Spell checks people when being presented facts?

Thinks Harmony Gold is in the right?

Troll.

We all knew that several posts ago. Doesn't mean we can't brow beat some sense into him.

[Seto Kaiba]

What am I not understanding?

Just going by the content of your last couple of posts... that's a frighteningly long list. In the interest of brevity, let's just skip right to the salient points...

Big West is not a ad company that employed freelance work or they didn't sell their international distribution and merchandising rights to Tatsunoko to fund and finish the production of the series?

... like this fantastic example of your inability to stay on topic. It would probably be easier for you to grasp what we're talking about if you weren't desperately racking your brains for something that isn't wrong. It's a mystery to me why you seem to think that this is in any way relevant to what we were discussing. The whole point that we were discussing after you let your fingers get ahead of your brain and claimed that neither Voyager Ent. nor World Events Pro. never revealed their shows came from Japan was why it was profoundly unprofessional and somewhat insulting for Harmony Gold to consistently fail to acknowledge the people whose creative vision and hard work created the shows they were bastardizing. That the animation of the series was farmed out to a couple of different studios in the course of events has nothing to do with it.

What really drives home how little you understand is that just a few posts ago you asserted that it was Studio Nue who contracted with Tatsunoko, rather than Big West... and inexplicably suggested that Big West "put the screws to" Studio Nue and Artland over it.

I hear a lot of talk that HG rewrote scripts and disrespected the original source material. Maybe wording could be changed because they owned them anyway?

That's really a completely different issue altogether and has nothing to do with what was being discussed... the brouhaha over Harmony Gold having "disrespected" the original shows by rewriting them (badly) and combining them into Robotech is more a hindsight thing than anything else. Of course, not crediting the original shows and their creators is disrespectful to the source material they were adapting into Robotech. The main reason for that complaint is that rewriting shows to "Americanize" them went out of fashion a few years after Robotech debuted, and Carl Macek's repeated insistence that the originals were inferior by far to his version. That's an insult to the original work and its author any way you shake it.

Wait.

Can't be reasoned with?

Spell checks people when being presented facts?

Thinks Harmony Gold is in the right?

Troll.

QFT

Edited October 19, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[Tom Bateman]

Other than the principals at Tatsunoko, the original staff members were not listed in the original ROBOTECH credits back in 1985, or in the "Remastered" DVDs that came out in 2003-04.

On the same note, even the American voice actors were not credited, at least not with their real names.

This "RESTORED" End Title attempts to correct both of those wrongs:

Credit to Mike Lugo and Rick Quitoriano for this contribution.

Edited October 19, 2010 by Tom Bateman

[Keith]

Other than the principals at Tatsunoko, the original staff members were not listed in the original ROBOTECH credits back in 1985, or in the "Remastered" DVDs that came out in 2003-04.

On the same note, even the American voice actors were not credited, at least not with their real names.

This "RESTORED" End Title attempts to correct both of those wrongs:

Credit to Mike Lugo and Rick Quitoriano for this contribution.

And this is a..fan production? Interesting, but still doesn't change HG's attempts to hide that they didn't actually "make" anything.

[Tom Bateman]

And this is a..fan production? Interesting, but still doesn't change HG's attempts to hide that they didn't actually "make" anything.

Well, there's not much that can be done about that. Fans have very little control over that. Yes, this was a fan produced video.

It may actually shock you, but there are Robotech fans who do respect the original Japanese series and the people who made it a reality.

[Agent ONE]

Well, there's not much that can be done about that. Fans have very little control over that. Yes, this was a fan produced video.

It may actually shock you, but there are Robotech fans who do respect the original Japanese series and the people who made it a reality.

It doesn't really shock me, I know some people like RT. So how do you guys make money? You made that one episode of like a sorta sequel thing, but then nothing. I have trouble believing selling SDF1 coffee mugs is keeping the lights on... BTW, I own four of them. I think its so bad ass to have that coffee cup...

[Seto Kaiba]

This "RESTORED" End Title attempts to correct both of those wrongs:

Thanks for posting that, Tom... you've got great timing, I mentioned it a few posts ago.

And this is a..fan production? Interesting, but still doesn't change HG's attempts to hide that they didn't actually "make" anything.

True... this fan-made "restored" version of the Robotech closing credits sequence doesn't do anything to change the way Harmony Gold tries to avoid crediting the creators of the original shows. It does, however, serve as an excellent demonstration of what I was telling terry the lone wolf... that Harmony Gold's failure to acknowledge the contribution of the show's real creators isn't because it's difficult or unfeasible, but because they just don't care to for whatever asinine reason. It might've been excusable back in the day, but they had a chance to fix it recently with Robotech Remastered and chose not to.

It doesn't really shock me, I know some people like RT. So how do you guys make money? You made that one episode of like a sorta sequel thing, but then nothing. I have trouble believing selling SDF1 coffee mugs is keeping the lights on... BTW, I own four of them. I think its so bad ass to have that coffee cup...

As far as I'm aware, their bread and butter is their rental properties and their buying and selling the distribution rights to various shows.

[taksraven]

Other than the principals at Tatsunoko, the original staff members were not listed in the original ROBOTECH credits back in 1985, or in the "Remastered" DVDs that came out in 2003-04.

On the same note, even the American voice actors were not credited, at least not with their real names.

This "RESTORED" End Title attempts to correct both of those wrongs:

Credit to Mike Lugo and Rick Quitoriano for this contribution.

Funny, I laughed and laughed and laughed.

What they should do is a special edition of Robotech with hardcoded subtitles that pop up every time the series "tells a lie" (a good example would be every time the word Protoculture is incorrectly used, a subtitle could pop up and explain what exactly the protoculture is in the original Macross) to set the facts straight about how the original series is being messed around with.

The logical extension would be every time an incorrect name for a character is spoken, a subtitle pops up with the "correct name"

Amending the closing titles?? Nobody cares about them anymore.......

Taksraven

[Seto Kaiba]

What they should do is a special edition of Robotech with hardcoded subtitles that pop up every time the series "tells a lie" (a good example would be every time the word Protoculture is incorrectly used, a subtitle could pop up and explain what exactly the protoculture is in the original Macross) to set the facts straight about how the original series is being messed around with.

Not a bad idea... the only problem I can think of is that in places there are going to be so many "lies" coming so quickly that the subtitled corrections are going to either have to race by so fast nobody can read them or pile up until they completely obscure the animation. Probably both in a few scenes.

Edited October 19, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[Smegalot]

I don't think that anyone is debating the fact that RT fans don't respect the original Anime, as it was meant to be. Heck even HG released the Uncut versions to the public. (And I have a few SDF-1 and RT mugs myself). Just giving credit where credit is due is what people want. Not saying hey that is our creation, really. We improved theirs to make it better.

The debate is why are HG holding on to the licensing of distribution. And the more that I am reading. It is to try and squeeze money out of BW or Bandai. Or whoever has been producing/creating the new Series. For them to release it internationally. Without any cost to them selves. And get to slap their logo all over it. And the same with Merchandise.

And as I have stated before the Internet has changed it all. With Subs of the newer series and heaps of merchandise can be brought online. I know that we won't get the english versions. But hey people complain about that the voices don't suit the characters (Gundam Seed comes to mind), ANd see it on the shelf but hey we still have it (I brought the whole Blu-Ray release to just see it in HD). And if HG was serious. they would be spending heaps of $ to stop all this from happening. And from what I have seen to stop it from being subbed and released to the public a series has to be licensed. And I have never seen that happen at all.

I think Bandai, and BW know that they don't really have to release it overseas. it is out, and has a decent fanbase (all of us for example), that will spend money the get the merchandise. (the only reason that I say Bandai, is that there name is all over the Games and Blu-ray releases as sponsors of the show)

I do agree that it is not a simple thing to sort out. But I heard rumors that who ever had HG bought the original rights from didn't really own the rights. And that has made it all confusing. And That HG want to stop Macross to keep their franchise safe. But I think the point is Moot. Macross escaped them no matter how much they try and stop it. Heck they tried to make out that they are a big part of the Macross Fandom, from sending Tommy to the MacrossCon 2010. And from what I hear not many people really cared, or even knew that he was there.

Geeze I haven't gotten this passionate about a debate for quite a while. Mind you I usually don't have this much spare time either. So I will stop raving on and boring people.

[chrisk]

Yes, this was a fan produced video.

Some Japanese names flashed onscreen for a few seconds, before a Legioss lands on them and shoots it down.

I think Bandai, and BW know that they don't really have to release it overseas. it is out, and has a decent fanbase (all of us for example) that will spend money the get the merchandise. (the only reason that I say Bandai, is that there name is all over the Games and Blu-ray releases as sponsors of the show)

And while Macross fans overseas have a healthy diet of cool merchandise based on the original series and its spinoffs, certain Robotech fans can only twiddle their thumbs and spend the lot of their time speculating, like this charming fellow:

http://www.robotechx.com/forums/43-movies-and-sci-fi/13711-warner-brothers-sam-raimi-qearth-defense-forceq-.html#13731

As one poster puts it:

Seems like some people get carried away over potentially nothing.

[Seto Kaiba]

The debate is why are HG holding on to the licensing of distribution.

To be honest... it's been ages since this thread was actually about the Macross legal/licensing situation and the role Harmony Gold plays in keeping most of Macross out of the hands of western fans. There was only so much we could talk about the irrefutable facts of the court documents and other sources of information. Once we got to the point where we had more-or-less unassailable conclusion based on those facts, there wasn't really a lot left to talk about. I'm sure there are plenty of possible specific motivations we could attach to Harmony Gold's use of their trademark to prevent other distributors from licensing Macross shows, but the underlying motive is plain to see... they're afraid Robotech will be plowed under by the higher quality Macross shows, and they don't want to see that happen unless they can profit from it as well. Just as you said, they want to be able to profit from Macross without doing any actual work... just sit back and demand royalties for the use of the name.

I do agree that it is not a simple thing to sort out. But I heard rumors that who ever had HG bought the original rights from didn't really own the rights.

No, it's a matter of record that Harmony Gold acquired the "rest of world" distribution and merchandising rights to Super Dimension Fortress Macross under license from Tatsunoko Productions, who received them as payment for their involvement in producing the series. You might be mixing that up with the tiff between Harmony Gold and FASA over the "unseen" designs in Battletech and MechWarrior, where there was some confusion over the legitimacy of the rights FASA acquired to those designs via a model kit manufacturer. The whole mess ended with an undisclosed settlement that recent events make clear involved FASA surrendering any claim on those designs... something they apparently failed to communicate to the companies they sold the franchise to.

And while Macross fans overseas have a healthy diet of cool merchandise based on the original series and its spinoffs, certain Robotech fans can only twiddle their thumbs and spend the lot of their time speculating, like this charming fellow: [...]

Well, no surprises there... it's not like Robotech fans have a lot left to talk about nowadays. They've long since exhausted every significant topic for discussion in the "original" Robotech series, and in the absence of forward motion on Shadow Chronicles and the proposed live action movie they don't have anything buzzworthy to hold their interest. So, naturally, the more desperate and self-deluded Robotech fans spend a downright disturbing amount of time trying to manufacture their own hype. The end result is, of course, an absurd collection of wild guesses and bullsh*t held up as though it were fact. Pity them, for theirs is a miserable lot with not even the faintest glimmering of genuine hope on the horizon.

[Smegalot]

Seto Kaiba (That name reminds me of Yu-Gi-oH!). you're pretty cool, and thanks for updating me on some facts that I didn't know (I remember reading those facts I quoted at the Valkyrie exchange). And I think you are on the money about it eclipsing Robotech. But it is too late.

To many people know about the other series. heck once I found about them online I looked into it more, as would anyone.

Robotech is great as it is. And it's future hangs on it being original. But HG is a business that wants to make profits for it share holders. Thus all this mess.

Look at the Silver Surfer. They could not include him in Planet Hulk Animated movie, because of licensing issues. I can now understand why Marvel set up their own movie company. So they have more control over their own ideas.

But HG is stuck now, just hoping that the producers of the new Macross series want to distribute it internationally. SC failed, I admit I was dying to see it when it came out. But I nearly thought it was a pilot for a new series that never came to be, A shame it could not of advanced. and then Macross Frontier came out which must of thrown a unwanted cog into there plans, and sales weren't that good for SC, But hey a series could of been done (the original Gundam took a few goes before it sunk in), and Macross would not of been in the works at all. But Frontier with it's new up todate GCI and animation screwed that plan up.

But still the licensing issues continue. And the internet has defeated most issues of holding shows back. In Australia now we get most shows nearly after they are released, to many people download them these days, and the Channels try and get the fellowship for the advertising . An most subbed shows come out within days of being released. And I do praise the people who do these subs. because without them I would not of had a chance to see these new series.

it is fun to debate again.

[Zor Primus]

But HG is stuck now, just hoping that the producers of the new Macross series want to distribute it internationally. SC failed, I admit I was dying to see it when it came out. But I nearly thought it was a pilot for a new series that never came to be, A shame it could not of advanced. and then Macross Frontier came out which must of thrown a unwanted cog into there plans, and sales weren't that good for SC, But hey a series could of been done (the original Gundam took a few goes before it sunk in), and Macross would not of been in the works at all. But Frontier with it's new up todate GCI and animation screwed that plan up.

I partially agree with you here. However I don't think SC would have been the start of a new series as at the time the talk was solely about the movie and nothing else. I say this not counting the endless posts back then talking about a return to glory, etc. That hope ended when nothing came out of the creative team a year after SC came out. Based on that we can completely eliminate any further comparison to MF. Frontier didn't throw any cog into anything since there was never a machine running @ HG. At least not on the level Big West was working. I just hope the choke hold is released by the time my kids are old enough to watch anime

[terry the lone wolf]

You can't make me care any more about spell check than I don't. Also, no, court case did not say Tatsunoko owned the scripts, it said Tatsunoko woned the final produced animation (which the audio was included in) with rights to distribute it outside of Japan (along with merch).

Ok, I'm going to paraphrase here; I read some quotes from the judge and he said Tatsunoko had economic rights as the "maker" of the series but not the "moral" rights that go to the "author" of the series which is Big West. Big West gets credit for creating the story IE character, storyline, mecha design, etc, etc but Tatsunoko gets the credit for actually making the series IE scripts, audio, cells, etc, etc....

Edited October 19, 2010 by terry the lone wolf

[terry the lone wolf]

Just going by the content of your last couple of posts... that's a frighteningly long list. In the interest of brevity, let's just skip right to the salient points...

... like this fantastic example of your inability to stay on topic. It would probably be easier for you to grasp what we're talking about if you weren't desperately racking your brains for something that isn't wrong. It's a mystery to me why you seem to think that this is in any way relevant to what we were discussing. The whole point that we were discussing after you let your fingers get ahead of your brain and claimed that neither Voyager Ent. nor World Events Pro. never revealed their shows came from Japan was why it was profoundly unprofessional and somewhat insulting for Harmony Gold to consistently fail to acknowledge the people whose creative vision and hard work created the shows they were bastardizing. That the animation of the series was farmed out to a couple of different studios in the course of events has nothing to do with it.

What really drives home how little you understand is that just a few posts ago you asserted that it was Studio Nue who contracted with Tatsunoko, rather than Big West... and inexplicably suggested that Big West "put the screws to" Studio Nue and Artland over it.

That's really a completely different issue altogether and has nothing to do with what was being discussed... the brouhaha over Harmony Gold having "disrespected" the original shows by rewriting them (badly) and combining them into Robotech is more a hindsight thing than anything else. Of course, not crediting the original shows and their creators is disrespectful to the source material they were adapting into Robotech. The main reason for that complaint is that rewriting shows to "Americanize" them went out of fashion a few years after Robotech debuted, and Carl Macek's repeated insistence that the originals were inferior by far to his version. That's an insult to the original work and its author any way you shake it.

QFT

I believe it's relevant because you always asserted that the the attempt to "Americanize" Macross by Carl Macek was disrespectful to BW. Now it seems that Tatsunoko owns those scripts and they sub-leased to HG. So since Tats owns them how is that being disrespectful to writers when they're partnered up with HG?

When did I assert that Studio Nue contracted with Tatsunoko? I felt that BW didn't leave a great path way for any original creator to get any credit in the international market.

Wait.

Can't be reasoned with?

Spell checks people when being presented facts?

Thinks Harmony Gold is in the right?

Troll.

Ouch! That's not nice calling people names who disagree with you. Soomebody's gotta be your conscience.

Edited October 19, 2010 by terry the lone wolf

[Keith]

Robotech is great as it is. And it's future hangs on it being original. But HG is a business that wants to make profits for it share holders. Thus all this mess.

HG is not a publicly traded company, they're a privately owned one. As such, no share holders.

Ok, I'm going to paraphrase here; I read some quotes from the judge and he said Tatsunoko had economic rights as the "maker" of the series but not the "moral" rights that go to the "author" of the series which is Big West. Big West gets credit for creating the story IE character, storyline, mecha design, etc, etc but Tatsunoko gets the credit for actually making the series IE scripts, audio, cells, etc, etc....

You're going to paraphrase what now? Because you seem to be ignoring what we're telling you in favor of what you "think" happened. Again, Tatsunoko got international distribution of the completed series (SDF Macross) along with merch, Big West/Studio Nue got everything relating to the actual creation of the series. Tatsunoko did not get "scripts" since they were not involved with anything on the creative end of the series. All they did was put up cash so the animation work could be completed.

[terry the lone wolf]

HG is not a publicly traded company, they're a privately owned one. As such, no share holders.

You're going to paraphrase what now? Because you seem to be ignoring what we're telling you in favor of what you "think" happened. Again, Tatsunoko got international distribution of the completed series (SDF Macross) along with merch, Big West/Studio Nue got everything relating to the actual creation of the series. Tatsunoko did not get "scripts" since they were not involved with anything on the creative end of the series. All they did was put up cash so the animation work could be completed.

Scroll to the last post on this page:

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5901

Edited October 19, 2010 by terry the lone wolf

[azrael]

Heck they tried to make out that they are a big part of the Macross Fandom, from sending Tommy to the MacrossCon 2010. And from what I hear not many people really cared, or even knew that he was there.

Tommy Yune came to present a Using Photoshop panel, not as a HG representative.

[Jasonc]

Other than the principals at Tatsunoko, the original staff members were not listed in the original ROBOTECH credits back in 1985, or in the "Remastered" DVDs that came out in 2003-04.

On the same note, even the American voice actors were not credited, at least not with their real names.

This "RESTORED" End Title attempts to correct both of those wrongs:

Credit to Mike Lugo and Rick Quitoriano for this contribution.

The VAs will tell everyone that they didn't have their names in the credits due to SAG and those issues. It seems like they knew the deal when they picked what fake names to put on the end credits. And in seeing that ending of how it should've been, is great. It's unfortunate that it won't be a reality to the original artists and such. In anycase, I'm kinda on the agreement that this back and forth with people that don't get it, is kinda over and done. Then to see it go into the realm of spellcheck??? Good Effin' Grief!!!

[TheLoneWolf]

Check 0:33: "Originally produced in Japan by Yoshinobu Nishizaki under the title 'Space Cruiser Yamato.'"

Wow, I never expected to see an old US anime accurately give credit to its' original Japanese creators. Do you know if Claster Television Productions was contractually required to list Star Blazers' Japanese origin, along with its' Japanese creators, in the opening credits? Or was Claster sincerely paying tribute to the show's Japanese origins?

The contract writer in me believes that the Japanese were proud of their work and wanted to ensure that Americans knew who was responsible for it, but the optimist in me wants to believe that Claster made a conscious effort to do the right thing.