HG and Robotech Debates

[Legioss]

No, it was just the mod and his friends who can't take a joke, Keith. It's the culture over there. They don't strive for improvement in Robotech or anything else and that kind of thinking makes them like that.

[Keith]

No, it was just the mod and his friends who can't take a joke, Keith. It's the culture over there. They don't strive for improvement in Robotech or anything else and that kind of thinking makes them like that.

It's almost like they intentionally want to smother out their fanbase

[Jasonc]

Spoken like a true member of the Tom Bateman "croud."

OK, not sure where you were going with that, but yeah, sure.

It's almost like they intentionally want to smother out their fanbase

Ding Ding Ding!!! Right answer! Tell the man what he wins!

Speaking on the TOU of RT.com, you have to understand that the staff doesn't run the forums, at all. It's run by mods who wanna feel like they're employed by HG, or simply wanna feel like they're big players in whatever game they've created for themselves. The mods who actually do a decent job over there are mods that are hardly on the site now. When I was modding there, even then in 2006-2007 there were emails I'd get of frustrated fans who were leaving the site in droves over stupid HG staff antics and other mod's lack of judgement and skill. I didn't want to step on "mod toes", so I'd tell those people to talk to Steve, and unfortunately, Steve only checks the site like once a quarter, so, there you go. If any of the staff is sadistic enough to read through every single post that goes up, it's probably Tommy Yune. If he sees something that offends him, or bothers him, more than likely he calls in his troops to ban them, so that it doesn't reflect on him. As a matter of fact, in certain instances, I know for a fact that, that was the case. There's a little on how the board is run.

[Freiflug88]

Okay, I give up... was misspelling "crowd" an unintentional gaffe or deliberate homage to Tom's illiterate "fanclub"?

Deliberate of course, hence the quotation marks.

[Gubaba]

Deliberate of course, hence the quotation marks.

You've been drinking too much of the "kulade," methinks.

[Keith]

OK, not sure where you were going with that, but yeah, sure.

Ding Ding Ding!!! Right answer! Tell the man what he wins!

Speaking on the TOU of RT.com, you have to understand that the staff doesn't run the forums, at all. It's run by mods who wanna feel like they're employed by HG, or simply wanna feel like they're big players in whatever game they've created for themselves. The mods who actually do a decent job over there are mods that are hardly on the site now. When I was modding there, even then in 2006-2007 there were emails I'd get of frustrated fans who were leaving the site in droves over stupid HG staff antics and other mod's lack of judgement and skill. I didn't want to step on "mod toes", so I'd tell those people to talk to Steve, and unfortunately, Steve only checks the site like once a quarter, so, there you go. If any of the staff is sadistic enough to read through every single post that goes up, it's probably Tommy Yune. If he sees something that offends him, or bothers him, more than likely he calls in his troops to ban them, so that it doesn't reflect on him. As a matter of fact, in certain instances, I know for a fact that, that was the case. There's a little on how the board is run.

It just makes you appreciate the little fan community we have over here all the more.

[Zor Primus]

OK, not sure where you were going with that, but yeah, sure.

Ding Ding Ding!!! Right answer! Tell the man what he wins!

Speaking on the TOU of RT.com, you have to understand that the staff doesn't run the forums, at all. It's run by mods who wanna feel like they're employed by HG, or simply wanna feel like they're big players in whatever game they've created for themselves. The mods who actually do a decent job over there are mods that are hardly on the site now. When I was modding there, even then in 2006-2007 there were emails I'd get of frustrated fans who were leaving the site in droves over stupid HG staff antics and other mod's lack of judgement and skill. I didn't want to step on "mod toes", so I'd tell those people to talk to Steve, and unfortunately, Steve only checks the site like once a quarter, so, there you go. If any of the staff is sadistic enough to read through every single post that goes up, it's probably Tommy Yune. If he sees something that offends him, or bothers him, more than likely he calls in his troops to ban them, so that it doesn't reflect on him. As a matter of fact, in certain instances, I know for a fact that, that was the case. There's a little on how the board is run.

To see Jason write this shows how far HG, RT.com and its staff have gone to not only smother the fans but completely strangle them to death. At least here we can openly debate, both positvely and negatively without fear of getting banned.

Personally what happens in RTLand makes little differance to me, I'll find out anything new RT here. The alternative is sitting on rt.com and hearing the washed rinsed and repeated what ifs, when ifs, why ifs and how ifs...

[taksraven]

Speaking on the TOU of RT.com, you have to understand that the staff doesn't run the forums, at all. It's run by mods who wanna feel like they're employed by HG, or simply wanna feel like they're big players in whatever game they've created for themselves. The mods who actually do a decent job over there are mods that are hardly on the site now. When I was modding there, even then in 2006-2007 there were emails I'd get of frustrated fans who were leaving the site in droves over stupid HG staff antics and other mod's lack of judgement and skill. I didn't want to step on "mod toes", so I'd tell those people to talk to Steve, and unfortunately, Steve only checks the site like once a quarter, so, there you go. If any of the staff is sadistic enough to read through every single post that goes up, it's probably Tommy Yune. If he sees something that offends him, or bothers him, more than likely he calls in his troops to ban them, so that it doesn't reflect on him. As a matter of fact, in certain instances, I know for a fact that, that was the case. There's a little on how the board is run.

Sounds like handing control of an asylum over to the inmates......

Taksraven

[Seto Kaiba]

It's run by mods who wanna feel like they're employed by HG, or simply wanna feel like they're big players in whatever game they've created for themselves. [...] If [Tommy] sees something that offends him, or bothers him, more than likely he calls in his troops to ban them, so that it doesn't reflect on him. As a matter of fact, in certain instances, I know for a fact that, that was the case.

No kidding... and it doesn't help that both Kevin and Tommy appear to be quietly encouraging the asinine behavior of certain moderators by playing on their desire for "big name fan" status and/or employment at Harmony Gold. In one case, we know for a fact that that's exactly what's going on.

To see Jason write this shows how far HG, RT.com and its staff have gone to not only smother the fans but completely strangle them to death.

Eh... in my experience, the core of the problem isn't really the terminal idiocy of Harmony Gold's so-called "creative team". What's really killing the Robotech fandom is Harmony Gold's crippling fear of risk and the poor choices they've made in volunteer forum moderators.

Personally what happens in RTLand makes little differance to me, I'll find out anything new RT here. The alternative is sitting on rt.com and hearing the washed rinsed and repeated what ifs, when ifs, why ifs and how ifs...

Exactly... if you still care about Robotech, then robotech.com is the last place you should be going for news about Robotech. In a case of breathtaking idiocy, the official website of the Robotech franchise is often the last site to have news about Robotech. On the few times that Harmony Gold's staff have talked about why it's like that, they point the finger at a ridiculously slow and restrictive approvals process that leaves them waiting weeks or months to announce things they've already said at conventions on the front page of the website. Between the absence of news about new Robotech productions and the general lack of content thanks to past failures, the Robotech fandom has nothing to do but endlessly rehash those what-ifs until Harmony Gold (possibly) gets their act together.

Sounds like handing control of an asylum over to the inmates......

It doesn't just sound like that... that's exactly what it is.

[Tom Bateman]

Tom, are you able to talk about the Robotech license or any experiences with Big West, Studio Nue, or Tatsunoko in this thread?

Never met Big West, or Studio Nue (though, I did have a brief "I'm not worthy" encounter with Shoji Kawamori at AX2002 when he came by the Battlecry booth that was set up. I gave him a set of the Animeigo DVDs... no, he did not throw them back at me)

Necromanced as in inactive since '06. But while we've got your ear, a certain Robotech.com member has been put on ban for on topic positive discussion about new Robotech projects that actually sparked some interesting conversation over at RT.com, and had an active positive following. What's up with that? Is there some hidden sub clause in the RT.C TOS that says actively discussing positive aspects about new robotech productions is some type of attack on Steve Yun and requires an apology? lol.

I haven't a clue. I haven't worked there in over three years.

People being banned from robotech.com for disagreeing with the Brothers Yun? Surely you jest!

I think it's pretty evident that almost any criticism directed towards Tommy can be construed into being a personal attack. It looks like nothing has changed.

Of course, that's just my opinion, take it or leave it.

Edited October 7, 2010 by Tom Bateman

[taksraven]

Never met Big West, or Studio Nue (though, I did have a brief "I'm not worthy" encounter with Shoji Kawamori at AX2002 when he came by the Battlecry booth that was set up. I gave him a set of the Animeigo DVDs... no, he did not throw them back at me)

I've always suspected that HG people would love to serve a C&D on Shoji every time he arrives in American territory.....

An inconvenient truth?

Taksraven

[Keith]

I haven't a clue. I haven't worked there in over three years.

Ah, welcome back to MW then, feel free to hang out lol.

[Tom Bateman]

I've always suspected that HG people would love to serve a C&D on Shoji every time he arrives in American territory.....

An inconvenient truth?

Taksraven

Nah, that's not the way that kind of thing works. I can't imagine any scenario where he would be the target of a C&D.

[Keith]

Nah, that's not the way that kind of thing works. I can't imagine any scenario where he would be the target of a C&D.

I can.

"Dear Shoji Kawamori, all your bases are belong to us.

Love,

Harmony Gold"

[taksraven]

Nah, that's not the way that kind of thing works. I can't imagine any scenario where he would be the target of a C&D.

I can imagine a scenario too.

"Dear Mr Kawamori, since we "own" Macross in this country, we also have the opinion that we legally "own" you too. So fuck off back to Japan before ignorant RT fans realise that there is more to Macross than just the original series.

Love and kisses,

The Friendly Folk at Harmony Gold"

Edited October 7, 2010 by taksraven

[Robelwell202]

More likely...

"To: S. Kawamori

From: Harmony Gold Creative Staff

STOP MAKING US LOOK BAD!!! WE DO NOT SUCK AS BAD AS YOU MAKE US APPEAR!!!

WAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!"

[Zor Primus]

First, good to hear from you again Tom.

Just had a thought cross my mind...lets say in a perfect world HG and BW settle and Macross is finally allowed into the US. What would the target demographic be? I highly doubt they'll go after the same group as HG did with RT. I guess we would have to see the actual successes with other more mature anime like Evangelion, Cowboy Bepop or Bleach. Thoughts?

[Keith]

First, good to hear from you again Tom.

Just had a thought cross my mind...lets say in a perfect world HG and BW settle and Macross is finally allowed into the US. What would the target demographic be? I highly doubt they'll go after the same group as HG did with RT. I guess we would have to see the actual successes with other more mature anime like Evangelion, Cowboy Bepop or Bleach. Thoughts?

The target demographic's heads will have all exploded, no sale's to be had.

[Tom Bateman]

Keith, taksraven... I think a common mistake is assuming that Kawamori and Big West are one in the same. Kawamori is not an employee of Big West, and therefore is not their representative. It is important that the distinction be made between the two, even though I know you are just joking... or are you?

[Keith]

No one's making that mistake at all, besides which, you should be able to tell we're joking about all this. The gist of it, is that HG are intellectual property thieves, and as such, would take any given opportunity to snuff the creative source of said intellectual property.

[Freiflug88]

You've been drinking too much of the "kulade," methinks.

You saying I need to attend Protoculture Addicts Anonymous?

The target demographic's heads will have all exploded, no sale's to be had.

A yodelling Macross singer based Slim Whitman! Now that could actually be quite funny to see and hear as long as they were made as a minor character.

Just had a thought cross my mind...lets say in a perfect world HG and BW settle and Macross is finally allowed into the US. What would the target demographic be? I highly doubt they'll go after the same group as HG did with RT. I guess we would have to see the actual successes with other more mature anime like Evangelion, Cowboy Bepop or Bleach. Thoughts?

I believe that Macross and Robotech more or less share the same target demographics of teens to young adults interested in Sci-fi, mecha, jets, animation, etc. Where they diverge though is at the crossroads of nostaglia for either show and the neverending Japanese sub/[insert other language here] Dub issue.

[Funkenstein]

You saying I need to attend Protoculture Addicts Anonymous?

A yodelling Macross singer based Slim Whitman! Now that could actually be quite funny to see and hear as long as they were made as a minor character.

I believe that Macross and Robotech more or less share the same target demographics of teens to young adults interested in Sci-fi, mecha, jets, animation, etc. Where they diverge though is at the crossroads of nostaglia for either show and the neverending Japanese sub/[insert other language here] Dub issue.

You're missing out on something big that differentiates the two. Macross has music as a main thematic element, and Robotech has bad music as a throw away element.

[Zor Primus]

You saying I need to attend Protoculture Addicts Anonymous?

A yodelling Macross singer based Slim Whitman! Now that could actually be quite funny to see and hear as long as they were made as a minor character.

I believe that Macross and Robotech more or less share the same target demographics of teens to young adults interested in Sci-fi, mecha, jets, animation, etc. Where they diverge though is at the crossroads of nostaglia for either show and the neverending Japanese sub/[insert other language here] Dub issue.

Hmm I don't think RT was ever directed to teens/young adults...I was neither when the show came out and if both were presented to me today I'd have to say Macross appeals to an older crowd. Then again I'm sadly not in Japan and cannot say how the commercials, publications are directed to. "Robotech, to the rescue!" is defiantly not a teen/young adult styled commercial lol...so RT imo was for the ages 6-12 group. And if you looked at the monstrosity that was the Matchbox Veritech that thing was hardly a choke hazard

[Seto Kaiba]

You're missing out on something big that differentiates the two. Macross has music as a main thematic element, and Robotech has bad music as a throw away element.

True! In point of fact, that key difference between Macross and Robotech is one of the things Carl Macek claimed (after the fact) was an intentional change he'd made to "improve" Macross... specifically, by trivializing the music aspect of the series and by making Minmay a horrible person. Of course, in that same interview he also claimed that Macross had hastened to imitate Robotech's elimination of music as an important part of the story in various sequels. (Bear ye in mind that at the time, the most recent Macross sequel was Macross Dynamite 7)

Hmm I don't think RT was ever directed to teens/young adults...

Nope, the initial Robotech series was aimed squarely at young children. Later titles, like the Waltrip bros. comic adaptation/continuation of Robotech II: the Sentinels and Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles clearly were aimed at older demographics. The dramatic swing towards PG-13 sex scenes and the like in Sentinels and the hilariously awful character designs in Shadow Chronicles leave no doubt about that...

[BeyondTheGrave]

Eh... in my experience, the core of the problem isn't really the terminal idiocy of Harmony Gold's so-called "creative team". What's really killing the Robotech fandom is Harmony Gold's crippling fear of risk and the poor choices they've made in volunteer forum moderators.

So their business plan is whats killing HG.

[Keith]

So their business plan is whats killing HG.

As near as I can figure, their business plan is:

Step 1 - Don't make anything, while telling everyone nothing about what you're not making

Step 2 - ???

Step 3 - Profit!

Edited October 9, 2010 by Keith

[Wanzerfan]

So their business plan is whats killing HG.

Harmony Gold's already dead, it's just the company doesn't even know it yet.

[Keith]

Harmony Gold's already dead, it's just the company doesn't even know it yet.

I'd sure like to give them the FIST OF THE NORTH STAR!

[Legioss]

I'd sure like to give them the FIST OF THE NORTH STAR!

Hopefully the ultimate fate of Robotech will be decided in the next couple of years by how successful their planned new products are, and maybe we won't have to wait five or ten more, and that could possibly change things for Macross internationally if they ever decide to stop throwing their money away.

[Einherjar]

Hopefully the ultimate fate of Robotech will be decided in the next couple of years by how successful their planned new products are, and maybe we won't have to wait five or ten more, and that could possibly change things for Macross internationally if they ever decide to stop throwing their money away.

So do we ignore the last 3-4 years following Shadow Chronicles then? I thought that said more than enough about Robotech these days, without delusions.

Edited October 9, 2010 by Einherjar

[Renato]

Hopefully the ultimate fate of Robotech will be decided in the next couple of years by how successful their planned new products are, and maybe we won't have to wait five or ten more, and that could possibly change things for Macross internationally if they ever decide to stop throwing their money away.

Funny, the info above that post reads otherwise, but I could have sworn this post was made in the year 2000.

To paraphrase Minmay's song, "Time flows away, love flows away... and we're still stuck in a rut."

[Seto Kaiba]

So their business plan is whats killing HG.

To be precise... the thing that's slowly killing the Robotech franchise is Harmony Gold's entirely-justifiable lack of confidence in the brand. If we can say one positive thing about senior management at Harmony Gold, it would be that they're not so far gone that they've started to believe their own hype. Despite all the noise from Kevin and Tommy about how Robotech is a big hit, their superiors haven't forgotten Robotech's long and proud history of f*cking up royally. So, unsurprisingly, they're unwilling to spend much of anything on keeping their Robotech franchise afloat. Unless it turns a profit, it's not even on their radar. That's why the discussion boards over on robotech.com are such a mess... senior management doesn't care how they're run because they don't turn any kind of a profit, and the luckless employees tasked with its maintenance have long since ceased to care. Steve got sick of fanboy drama and doesn't want to deal with it anymore, Tommy only visits it to make sure nobody is saying anything bad about him and to sustain his undeserved feeling of accomplishment, and Kevin uses it as a venue to live out his "big name fan" power fantasies.

As near as I can figure, their business plan is:

Step 1 - Don't make anything, while telling everyone nothing about what you're not making

Step 2 - ???

Step 3 - Profit!

Nah... step 1 is "Don't make anything, but tell everyone how awesome the stuff you're not making is." That is the very essence of the Harmony Gold convention tour.

[Legioss]

What about the word "possibly" was unclear? Some concrete and not vaporware failures or successes could possibly change the situation with Macross and since HG says they're putting something out next year that could possibly be it. Also, aren't they going to announce the death of the live action movie idea if it goes on for too long?

So do we ignore the last 3-4 years following Shadow Chronicles then? I thought that said more than enough about Robotech these days, without delusions.

Then if you know, what's going to happen?

Funny, the info above that post reads otherwise, but I could have sworn this post was made in the year 2000.

To paraphrase Minmay's song, "Time flows away, love flows away... and we're still stuck in a rut."

The situation is different. How much money will they spend trying to revive Robotech? I know we joke that it'll go on forever, but seriously how long of a forever?

[Einherjar]

Then if you know, what's going to happen?

Absolutely nothing of real interest or consequence. That thing potentially coming out next year counts since it's already known that it's a side story of no real consequence. Rick Hunter is still going to be falling towards that black hole from 2007 regardless of what happens in it. Humanity is still screwed without it's addiction to that space weed everyone is obsessed about. And those Sharon Apple clones will keep having that super secret plan about something.

And if you REALLY want to know how this will get resolved, keep giving HG more money to rekindle one's childhood and continue the madness.

[Seto Kaiba]

[...] since HG says they're putting something out next year that could possibly be it. Also, aren't they going to announce the death of the live action movie idea if it goes on for too long?

For one... as far as I've seen, all but the most devoted Robotech fans sincerely doubt that Tommy will actually have something ready to deliver next year. Even if they do manage to deliver it on time, it's not like it'll be all that relevant to the ongoing story, and it definitely won't change the fact that the only people interest in the project are the die-hard Robotech fans. The rest are asking "why aren't you finishing Shadow Rising?".

On the subject of the live action movie, I doubt they'll announce it if it gets canceled. Past performance would seem to indicate that they'll sit on the news until someone else leaks it, then they'll grudgingly own up to it or claim that it's not really dead and say they're shopping around for another studio. Either way, they're going to do whatever they can to give the illusion that it isn't a lost cause for as long as they can