Sdf Prime Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 I was thinking about this and was wondering how SDF MACROSS would work out on blu-ray? I know macross was remastered a few years back by AnimEigo and released later by ADV which is the version I have seen. I have heard that the Japanese also remastered SDF MACROSS but I don't know which version was better. So I am wondering how much more work would have to be done to the footage to be able to put it on blu-ray. Also I am trying to figure out how they would deal with the aspect ratio. leave it in the 4:3 standard or some how put in 16:9 ? I am not really sure how it would be put in 16:9 unless it was stretched or something. I also wonder if would even be put on blu-ray I really cant think of any anime from the 80's that been put on blu-ray. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 I was thinking about this and was wondering how SDF MACROSS would work out on blu-ray? I know macross was remastered a few years back by AnimEigo and released later by ADV which is the version I have seen. I have heard that the Japanese also remastered SDF MACROSS but I don't know which version was better. So I am wondering how much more work would have to be done to the footage to be able to put it on blu-ray. Also I am trying to figure out how they would deal with the aspect ratio. leave it in the 4:3 standard or some how put in 16:9 ? I am not really sure how it would be put in 16:9 unless it was stretched or something. I also wonder if would even be put on blu-ray I really cant think of any anime from the 80's that been put on blu-ray. Zeta Gundam has. I haven't seen it, though, so I can't comment on how it looks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercurial Morpheus Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 It looks pretty damn good actually. About as good as any animated film can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sdf Prime Posted January 20, 2009 Author Share Posted January 20, 2009 It looks pretty damn good actually. About as good as any animated film can. What aspect ratio was it in ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 What aspect ratio was it in ? From what I can tell on amazon.co.jp, it looks like it's 4:3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB0 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 I don't think there's really a lot that can be gained by putting SDF Macross on BluRay, other than money in Bandai's and Big West's pockets. It just doesn't have enough detail in it to warrant an HD transfer. And if it were reworked to be 16:9, it would probably be cropped, not stretched. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 I don't think there's really a lot that can be gained by putting SDF Macross on BluRay, other than money in Bandai's and Big West's pockets. It just doesn't have enough detail in it to warrant an HD transfer. And if it were reworked to be 16:9, it would probably be cropped, not stretched. I think you could say the same about Zeta Gundam, though...all '80s cartoons designed primarily to sell robot toys lack a lot in terms of subtle touches and flourishes. If, however, Blu-Ray becomes successful enough to become the new standard, then probably everything will get rereleased. Much as when I was in high school, I only bought CDs of albums that I really, really knew I wanted, and cassettes for the stuff I didn't care about as much. But within a few years, cassettes were no longer readily available. The same thing might happen with DVD, in which case Blu-Ray becomes an inevitability. I'm not saying that will happen, of course...but it's a possibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB0 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Maybe, but there's a difference. BluRay players can play DVDs. CD players can't play cassettes. If the transition DOES occur, it'll take a LOT longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Maybe, but there's a difference. BluRay players can play DVDs. CD players can't play cassettes. If the transition DOES occur, it'll take a LOT longer. Not having a Blu-Ray player, I didn't know that. Never mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azrael Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Perhaps the 35th Anniversary. I don't see a Blu-Ray release coming anytime soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Keep in mind, Bandai's video masters are in better shapes than HG's were. All comparisons I've heard still say that Bandai's recent release still looks better than AnimEigo's remaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hikuro Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Here's my take, you wanna watch a 25 year old TV series, in an area of HD that didn't exist when there is already a very good remastered version of it on DVD by two companies in america? I LOVE Blu-ray, but I only like it on films that are not old enough to be my age. Not too mention doesn't a Blu-ray player take a regular DVD and technically up converts it's picture quality? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamletiii Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 There's screenshots comparison between the Bandai HD-remastered sets and animeigo sets, Bandai's just blows away the animeigo junk. As for putting this series on Blu-ray, the footage has to be blown up since the originals are shot on 16mm film which don't have the 1080 line resolution, but it will certainly benefit from less compression from high bitrate and more efficient codec. Contrary to normal thinking, the old stuff isn't as good as new stuff doesn't apply to film technology. There are lots of examples in live action films shot in the 60s, 70s look as good as or even better than recent films. In the anime genre, I have seen 80's anime Royal Space Force Wings of Honneamise, Bubblegum Crisis OVA, and Gunbuster Blu-ray Disc, they all look stunning. 70s, 80s TV anime series Zeta Gundam and Lupin are coming on Blu-ray recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB0 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Here's my take, you wanna watch a 25 year old TV series, in an area of HD that didn't exist when there is already a very good remastered version of it on DVD by two companies in america? I LOVE Blu-ray, but I only like it on films that are not old enough to be my age. Not too mention doesn't a Blu-ray player take a regular DVD and technically up converts it's picture quality? BluRay players WILL upsample a DVD, but that doesn't really change the fact that the source image is low resolution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boota Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Nah, its a waste of time to even think of putting the old SDF Macross into Blu-ray... the travesty that is in some episodes by animefriend along with all the outdated fashion design and clucky knobs on the console oughta be scrapped... say no to lasy-assed short cuts and money will be better spent if they just reproduce with new animation like Rebuild of Evangelion; except in a tv series length. That way we can ensure a new generation of audience and a fanbase that will last the franchise well beyond 2020. The spirit of the SDF Macross needs a youthful look otherwise the Blu-ray format is wasted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoneWolf Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 (edited) I know macross was remastered a few years back by AnimEigo and released later by ADV which is the version I have seen. I have heard that the Japanese also remastered SDF MACROSS but I don't know which version was better. The Japanese version released last year by Bandai Visual is superior to all the current North American releases. But as expected, the film grain is easily seen. The tradeoff is better picture clarity. In the second attachment, I've thrown in a comparison shot in which Bandai apparently removed the film grain. Film purists may scream bloody murder, but I think Bandai actually did a great job. edit: Oh yeah, as for a Blu-ray release. I think Bandai will release a Blu-ray set within the next two years, but I fully expect it to be shovelware (ie: no major improvements). Then Bandai will participate in the inevitable "double-dip" and release a second BD set with the film grain artificially removed. It's all about making money. Edited January 21, 2009 by TheLoneWolf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HannouHeiki Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 I recently rewatched last last episode of Macross, and that episode showed me that the bitrates used for the animeigo DVDs were not high enough. When the Macross was being rammed, you could see pixelation from the high movement (where they zoom in on Kamjin's ship and you see a closeup of the barrage). Blue ray codecs would avoid pixelation all together... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zinjo Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 (edited) Maybe, but there's a difference. BluRay players can play DVDs. CD players can't play cassettes. If the transition DOES occur, it'll take a LOT longer. I agree. VHS tapes were still being sold for about the first 6-7 years DVD was available. Since DVD is an easier format to work with, and now much cheaper, I suspect it will be around as long if not longer than VHS was. Eventually you'll be able to get a movie on DVD for like $10.00, and a BD for about $20 - 25. Much like it was about 8 years ago... Also keep in mind SDFM was shot on 16mm film stock. Granted many technicians believe a 1080p resolution is possible (at maximum res) from a 16mm source print, however that would require the original film stock (which is over 25 years old!). Edited January 20, 2009 by Zinjo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skull1986 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 (edited) The show's not worth getting on Blu-Ray, IMHO. There are just some things that won't be improved markedly that I think money should be saved on. Sure, I want things restored, too, but I'd rather they keep at the older resolution and market them 480p as opposed to those artificially created high-def "upconvert" editions. Also, I think saying the North American release was junk is a bit harsh and ignores the reality that the distributor was working with the best materials available. If you want to see junk, look at the ADV release of Sailor Moon Seasons 1 and 2. THAT'S junk! Courtesy of the Japanese company (Toei) which wouldn't lend better film and audio masters to ADV. What I see in the comparisons does NOT justify getting the Japanese remastered release, IMHO. It's not worth a few hundred dollars more to get something that isn't even English-subtitled. That's a spectacular waste of money unless you're that anal about it. The first comparison I could see a difference, second not so much other than the AE release had sweeter colors. That's not something that breaks buying the NA release (which I do own). As far as the ADV version goes, yes it's the same video. Whether packing more episodes per volume made a difference in artifacting I couldn't tell you as I've only watched the first disc of the release. Right away, though, I could hear the tininess of the Japanese audio on the ADV release. I grabbed my older AE release disc for Volume 1 for comparison and the audio on that is perfect. No tininess. Obviously, AE grabbed better audio materials than ADV. Maybe they had better connections in Japan that supplied them with the materials? With that, I just wonder if there were rights issues that prevented ADV from getting the better Japanese audio dialogue tracks or if they were lazy. It sure sounded like they had access to better audio samples for the music and sound effects in the 5.1 mix! Obviously, if you care more about getting a faithful dub, buy the ADV Macross edition. (Frankly, I still like the Robotech cast voices better. Something about most domestic dubs rubs me the wrong way. That cast, however, seems to fit the characters better than the ADV-translation dub.) Otherwise, the AE release is still a bit cheaper at Robotech.com -- compared to most B&M stores at any rate... Although with the downsizing of the R1 anime DVD market still continuing, we all may be buying over half our discs online. Edited January 20, 2009 by Skull1986 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zinjo Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 The show's not worth getting on Blu-Ray, IMHO. There are just some things that won't be improved markedly that I think money should be saved on. Sure, I want things restored, too, but I'd rather they keep at the older resolution and market them 480p as opposed to those artificially created high-def "upconvert" editions. Upconvert what? The resolution is already there, the big question is how large is the grain size on the print, which may or may not show up during a higher res scan. not to mention any injuries the film has sustained over the years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercurial Morpheus Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 From what I can tell on amazon.co.jp, it looks like it's 4:3. Indeed it is 4:3, as it should be. It's a shame though that the only group releasing it only put the opening in 1080p though. Once again I'm forced to not utilize my 1200p screen to the fullest... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sdf Prime Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 I wonder how much better the film that Bandai used was than the film that AnimEigo used and if the quality of the remaster was due to the film or just the process that Bandai and AnimEigo used. I am pretty sure that HG used the Macross remastered footage for when they released their robotech remastered portion of macross. I'll assume that the film that was remastered by AnimEigo was probably the same footage that HG received back in the 80's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sketchley Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 (...) Eventually you'll be able to get a movie on DVD for like $10.00, and a BD for about $20 - 25. Much like it was about 8 years ago... (...) If only anime would get that cheap! Even in used shops, it's common to see discs at ï¿¥3,500 to ï¿¥5,500! The only discs that get that cheap are of movies imported from Hollywood... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB0 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Nah, its a waste of time to even think of putting the old SDF Macross into Blu-ray... the travesty that is in some episodes by animefriend along with all the outdated fashion design and clucky knobs on the console oughta be scrapped... say no to lasy-assed short cuts and money will be better spent if they just reproduce with new animation like Rebuild of Evangelion; except in a tv series length. That way we can ensure a new generation of audience and a fanbase that will last the franchise well beyond 2020. The spirit of the SDF Macross needs a youthful look otherwise the Blu-ray format is wasted. Whatchu talkin' about? The 80s style is awesome! Disco is not dead! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Whatchu talkin' about? The 80s style is awesome! Disco is not dead! I agree. If they redid it now, Focker wouldn't smoke, and Kakizaki would be eating a nice healthy salad instead of steak. And the Zentradi would ALWAYS shoot first. If it's an update people want, well...there's always "Macross the First" to look forward to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boota Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Ah, but imagine Focker & Kakizaki with all the old bad habits... in the midst of all the other sleek artwork... imagine how the water droplets bouces off Minmay in the Zero G shower scene... imagine how juicy it'd be when Milia bounces her boobs during the knife fight with Max pre-milf... all in HD glory! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB0 Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Ah, but imagine Focker & Kakizaki with all the old bad habits... in the midst of all the other sleek artwork... imagine how the water droplets bouces off Minmay in the Zero G shower scene... imagine how juicy it'd be when Milia bounces her boobs during the knife fight with Max pre-milf... all in HD glory! While I REALLY want to see the knife fight reanimated, let's be honest here. The show is so 80s "near-future" that it'd take more than reanimating to make it appealing to a new generation. We need more angst, Kaifun has to be RIGHT when he blames the military for everything that went wrong, the aliens have to be ecoterrorists trying to save the world from humanity... What else do they need to change to bring this into the 21st century? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sketch Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Just throwing in my two cents, the Zeta Gundam BluRay set looks amazing and I would kill to get my hands on a Macross set that is given the same loving treatment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 While I REALLY want to see the knife fight reanimated, let's be honest here. The show is so 80s "near-future" that it'd take more than reanimating to make it appealing to a new generation. We need more angst, Kaifun has to be RIGHT when he blames the military for everything that went wrong, the aliens have to be ecoterrorists trying to save the world from humanity... What else do they need to change to bring this into the 21st century? :::cough:::Frontier:::cough::: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercurial Morpheus Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 As far as the ADV version goes, yes it's the same video. Whether packing more episodes per volume made a difference in artifacting I couldn't tell you as I've only watched the first disc of the release. Right away, though, I could hear the tininess of the Japanese audio on the ADV release. I grabbed my older AE release disc for Volume 1 for comparison and the audio on that is perfect. No tininess. Obviously, AE grabbed better audio materials than ADV. Maybe they had better connections in Japan that supplied them with the materials? With that, I just wonder if there were rights issues that prevented ADV from getting the better Japanese audio dialogue tracks or if they were lazy. It sure sounded like they had access to better audio samples for the music and sound effects in the 5.1 mix! AE has the better audio because they personally secured better masters from the studio while on a trip to Japan. Hence it was thiers exclusively. The video was from HG. When the license lapsed, HG turned it over to ADV, but since AE acquired the audio themselves, ADV recieved HG's copy. That's why they don't use the same audio. As for the dub music, CD soundtracks were probably used, and i know they used new Sound FX. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoneWolf Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 I've heard the same explanation from several people. But do you know where that information originally came from? An Animeigo official newsletter? Their website? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zinjo Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 I've heard the same explanation from several people. But do you know where that information originally came from? An Animeigo official newsletter? Their website? Most likely someone at AE. The audio quality differences between the AE version and the ADV version is further evidence that AE had better masters. I got the impression that the license didn't so much lapse as HG wouldn't renew it. Most likely they had some deal with ADV already in the works for a dub... AE had to turn over all their printed copies at the time of expiration. I remember because they had a massive discount on the box sets before the expiry and I got all 3 sets for $120.00. Then a month later they ended up on the RT site with different packaging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 The information about AnimEigo getting audio masters direct from Japan came directly from Robert Woodhead on AnimEigo's mailing list while the remaster was going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB0 Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Most likely someone at AE. The audio quality differences between the AE version and the ADV version is further evidence that AE had better masters. I got the impression that the license didn't so much lapse as HG wouldn't renew it. Most likely they had some deal with ADV already in the works for a dub... AE had to turn over all their printed copies at the time of expiration. I remember because they had a massive discount on the box sets before the expiry and I got all 3 sets for $120.00. Then a month later they ended up on the RT site with different packaging. I kinda suspected something was up when the Southern Cross and MOSPEADA DVDs came out. AnimEigo wasn't allowed to dub Macross because "Robotech is the Macross dub" and "it'll confuse people"*, then Southern Cross hits and WHAM! there's a dub. So I can't say I was surprised when HG refused to renew their license. I'm not sure if they got into bed with ADV right after they signed the AnimEigo license, or if they were just using AnimEigo to get the video remastered at no cost to their REAL DVD manufacturer. *As opposed to releasing the same Robotech episodes in six different packages with different bonus features at the same time! That won't cause ANY confusion at ALL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoneWolf Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 The information about AnimEigo getting audio masters direct from Japan came directly from Robert Woodhead on AnimEigo's mailing list while the remaster was going on. Thanks Keith. Do you have a copy of the e-mail or know of a website where I can read its contents? Because without either, it falls under the category of Internet heresay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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