Macross Frontier Episode 23 Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[sushisystems]

How did the hell Brera turn 180 in his cockpit to hand Ranka his harmonica?

[whispo]

How did the hell Brera turn 180 in his cockpit to hand Ranka his harmonica?

sitting backwards on his knees?

[treatment]

hey, uhh, you guys remember...

...in Zero, Shin was gonna

all-out kamikaze into the Sara-controlled AFOS to try to stop her before Mao holo'ed in at the last minute

.

ain't it a little bit similar to what Alto is thinking of doing to Ranka if desperation happens?

Isamu did it to Sharon, too, you know. In Plus, that is.

just sayin...

Edited September 12, 2008 by treatment

[dreamweaver13]

I'm going to say again, that I think that's Sheryls apartment. She must have lived somewhere before the hospital, or when taken in the Saotome mansion... perhaps she aquired it after she started working for Leon even.

Why do I say its Sheryl's? Because Sheryl says "You mustn't go home!" when he's carrying her. Sure, it's not much to go by perhaps, Sheryl might have been confused as to where she was at the moment, but what indication is it that it was Alto's?

If it is, indeed, Sheryl's place, then it's most likely the same place where Ranka stayed while she was employed by the government. after all, sheryl did take her place, why not her flat?

[whispo]

actually, if sheryl had self-doubt about alto's feelings for her, it's all the better coz i can see how it ends from an alto-sheryl perspective:

Ranka runs out the door, and alto starts to follow but pauses for dramatic effect.

Sheryl: go ahead, alto. you're finally reunited with Ranka. Follow her. i know i'm dying, I don't need your sympathy.

Alto: you're wrong! after i cooked you dinner and carried you to bed (by the way, you're getting heavy, you know that?), and then i saw ranka's picture in nanase's hospital room... i knew. the one who i want to stay by my side forever is....

oh you know the drill.

Like I said, this episode had a verry strong *Hikaru's room in DYRL* vibe for me .... O don't know, from a moral point of view I can't see AltoxSheryl not happening, no matter what happens to Sheryl she's at a point where she has nothing, the least she deserves is "getting" Alto. And I'm not saying this because I'm a SherylxAlto fan, if the roles would have been reversed, then I would have felt the same for Ranka.

hey, uhh, you guys remember...

...in Zero, Shin was gonna

all-out kamikaze into the Sara-controlled AFOS to try to stop her before Mao holo'ed in at the last minute

.

ain't it a little bit similar to what Alto is thinking of doing to Ranka if desperation happens?

just sayin...

*Fanboyism: ON* Well Shin ended up with Sara, and we can't have him end up with Ranka now can we

Edited September 12, 2008 by whispo

[RichterX]

In other words, there are reasons that Alto might have access to a lot of wealth. The fact that we still don't know much about his background keeps us from knowing for sure whether any of those reasons apply.

Also we don't know how much is the pay from SMS.

[dreamweaver13]

Alto's a disinherited student, but he's also a formerly successful child actor. He might have earned a lot of money on the stage before he walked out. Also, inheritence arrangements don't always send all of the money to the surviving spouse (particularly if the now dead spouse brought a lot of money into the marriage). It's possible that Alto's mother willed wealth of some sort to Alto when she died.

In other words, there are reasons that Alto might have access to a lot of wealth. The fact that we still don't know much about his background keeps us from knowing for sure whether any of those reasons apply.

Also we don't know how much is the pay from SMS.

good points. sure doesn't seem like money was ever a problem for alto-hime.

AND to get back on track, why are they juxtaposing michael's death with a ranka-alto pairing? is this supposed for foretell something?

Edited September 12, 2008 by dreamweaver13

[VF-25 Messiah]

If it is, indeed, Sheryl's place, then it's most likely the same place where Ranka stayed while she was employed by the government. after all, sheryl did take her place, why not her flat?

If you're refering to scene in the beginning of episode 19, then my initial reaction would be to say no. That place was bigger, grander... got the feeling that it was perhaps something of a goverment hotel or something. Of course I'm perhaps mistaken when I asociate the bedroom we see Ranka in, with the big litup building we see in the next scene, with guards stationed outside and Brera sitting on the roof playing his harmonica. That Ai-kun promptly appears on the roof, tells me it is at least close by however.

Edited September 12, 2008 by VF-25 Messiah

[treatment]

Like I said, this episode had a verry strong *Hikaru's room in DYRL* vibe for me .... O don't know, from a moral point of view I can't see AltoxSheryl not happening, no matter what happens to Sheryl she's at a point where she has nothing, the least she deserves is "getting" Alto. And I'm not saying this because I'm a SherylxAlto fan, if the roles would have been reversed, then I would have felt the same for Ranka.

*Fanboyism: ON* Well Shin ended up with Sara, and we can't have him end up with Ranka now can we

lol!

if things continues the way i'm seeing it, Sheryl will pull a Minmay/Mao combo, while Ranka will pull a Myung/Sara combo.

Edited September 12, 2008 by treatment

[dreamweaver13]

just to continue the discussion in the news thread...

what's the answer to the ultimate question, "your place or mine?". whose place was it (where sheryl got drunk)? alto's or sheryl's?

theories so far:

1) alto's apartment (gasp! first time on air!)

2) Sheryl's new apartment

3) Ranka's apartment when she was the new star of the NUNG, given to sheryl.

4) Alto's spankin' new apartment as a squadron leader for NUNS

[VF-25 Messiah]

1. No real indication that it would be this.

2. Given that Sheryl tells Alto to "not go home", I would say this seems likely.

3. It doesn't look the part. Of course I might be mistaken to asociate the building seen early in episode 19, with the bedroom seen just before it.

4. See 1.

Now is lack of indication proof that it isn't Alto's place? Not really no, but given we have a (however slight you may feel it is) indication that it might be Sheryls, I'm going to go with that until proven otherwise.

And it would be "gasp! first time on air!" for being sheryl's apartment too.

Edited September 12, 2008 by VF-25 Messiah

[dreamweaver13]

1. No real indication that it would be this.

2. Given that Sheryl tells Alto to "not go home", I would say this seems likely.

3. It doesn't look the part. Of course I might be mistaken to asociate the building seen early in episode 19, with the bedroom seen just before it.

4. See 1.

Now is lack of indication proof that it isn't Alto's place? Not really no, but given we have a (however slight you may feel it is) indication that it might be Sheryls, I'm going to go with that until proven otherwise.

And it would be "gasp! first time on air!" for being sheryl's apartment too.

for me, 2 sounds reasonable. 3 is most likely. 1 and 4 are less likely but still possible.

some are intepreting it as "don't leave me", which could mean either sheryl or alto's place. But if it's literally "don't go home", then it most likely is sheryl's place (with this, we are again left with alto as the eternal vagabond. hehe).

the apartment might look different, but maybe it's all a matter of atmosphere. in ep19, ranka's room was a well-lighted happy place coz.. well... that's ranka. but we certainly can't have that atmosphere to emphasize that sheryl is slowly dying.

if it's sheryl's own apartment, it must be new (so it's not a "first time on air" moment). she used to stay in a hotel before her confrontation with grace. then from there, straight to saotome mansion. well since alto can't fully take care of her in the mansion (since he has that old "i'll never go back home again" oath), maybe she convinced sheryl to get her own place.

[HMP_Goose]

So: Who's gon'a pull the Guld Bowman and ram (the freshly mind-wiped) Brera? Alto or Ozma?

[VF-25 Messiah]

for me, 2 sounds reasonable. 3 is most likely. 1 and 4 are less likely but still possible.

some are intepreting it as "don't leave me", which could mean either sheryl or alto's place. But if it's literally "don't go home", then it most likely is sheryl's place (with this, we are again left with alto as the eternal vagabond. hehe).

the apartment might look different, but maybe it's all a matter of atmosphere. in ep19, ranka's room was a well-lighted happy place coz.. well... that's ranka. but we certainly can't have that atmosphere to emphasize that sheryl is slowly dying.

if it's sheryl's own apartment, it must be new (so it's not a "first time on air" moment). she used to stay in a hotel before her confrontation with grace. then from there, straight to saotome mansion. well since alto can't fully take care of her in the mansion (since he has that old "i'll never go back home again" oath), maybe she convinced sheryl to get her own place.

Sheryl used 帰る, which is to return; to come home; to go home; to go back. It's not a verb she'd use if he was already home.

Also, this is why I think it's not 3:

The apartment in ep 23.

This is where I believe Ranka was staying in ep 19. The first picture fits over the bottom one.

I admit I can be mistaken in asociating the latter building with the bedroom that was shown just prior to it. But it makes the most sense that they're same.

Edited September 12, 2008 by VF-25 Messiah

[electric indigo]

So: Who's gon'a pull the Guld Bowman and ram (the freshly mind-wiped) Brera? Alto or Ozma?

We'll more likely see a "There's still good in him" Brera ramming Grace's Valk.

[junior]

Sheryl used 帰る, which is to return; to come home; to go home; to go back. It's not a verb she'd use if he was already home.

Also, this is why I think it's not 3:

The apartment in ep 23.

This is where I believe Ranka was staying in ep 19. The first picture fits over the bottom one.

I admit I can be mistaken in asociating the latter building with the bedroom that was shown just prior to it. But it makes the most sense that they're same.

The most suggestive reason that it isn't the same building that Ranka was in is the sign sticking out over the sidewalk that's seen just before the first screengrab (which is the place where Sheryl and Alto eat) that you took. It's the sort of sign that you'd find in front of a shop, and not something that you'd likely find attached to the much nicer digs in the second and third screen grabs.

And it would be "gasp! first time on air!" for being sheryl's apartment too.

Doesn't count. Sheryl had a hotel room that was acting as her long-term residence up until episode 15, and we saw that plenty of times.

[wolfx]

Sheryl used 帰る, which is to return; to come home; to go home; to go back. It's not a verb she'd use if he was already home.

Also, this is why I think it's not 3:

The apartment in ep 23.

This is where I believe Ranka was staying in ep 19. The first picture fits over the bottom one.

I admit I can be mistaken in asociating the latter building with the bedroom that was shown just prior to it. But it makes the most sense that they're same.

The 1st image i think is Ozma's apartment, the one where he stays with Ranka.

Unless Alto borrowed it since Ozma and Ranka aren't around no more, and i doubt sheryl has a living place after her drop from fame.

[junior]

I'm going to say again, that I think that's Sheryls apartment. She must have lived somewhere before the hospital, or when taken in the Saotome mansion...

She lived in a hotel room. We saw it on a number of occasions, such as when she realized that her earring was missing and when she left a note written in lipstick on her mirror for Grace.

AND to get back on track, why are they juxtaposing michael's death with a ranka-alto pairing? is this supposed for foretell something?

Such a choice represents death for Alto?

On a more serious note, I trust Kawamori to have a positive ending, but at the same time I'm starting to wonder... Things look really bad right now, and that's before we even get into relationship issues within the series.

[junior]

The 1st image i think is Ozma's apartment, the one where he stays with Ranka.

Unless Alto borrowed it since Ozma and Ranka aren't around no more, and i doubt sheryl has a living place after her drop from fame.

No, the first image is taken directly from episode 23 at 4:25. It's the apartment that Alto and Sheryl are in during the episode.

There's no reason to believe it's the same place that Ozma lives in. First, it would be kind of creepy living in the house of someone that you know without their permission. Second, it's quite common in some areas to have residences that all look exactly identical on the outside. So while it's possible that the silohuette was reused from an earlier picture of Ozma's apartment, that doesn't mean that it's actually in the same building.

Example here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terraced_house

Both Sheryl and Alto have jobs. They get paychecks. They can afford to get their own places to live.

[VF-25 Messiah]

The 1st image i think is Ozma's apartment, the one where he stays with Ranka.

Unless Alto borrowed it since Ozma and Ranka aren't around no more, and i doubt sheryl has a living place after her drop from fame.

The first image is where Sheryl and Alto have their dinner. I do not think it is Ozma's place. It could very well be in the same neighborhood, though.

The most suggestive reason that it isn't the same building that Ranka was in is the sign sticking out over the sidewalk that's seen just before the first screengrab (which is the place where Sheryl and Alto eat) that you took. It's the sort of sign that you'd find in front of a shop, and not something that you'd likely find attached to the much nicer digs in the second and third screen grabs.

Well I guess... except I think the fact that they look nothing alike at all, is even more so...

I should perhaps elaborate when I said "It makes the sense that is the same" I was not refering to the building being the same as the apartment shown in ep 23. Rather I mean that the room we saw in episode 19 (which i didn't screen cap earlier) is from inside the big lit up building.

To illustrate things more clearly:

Sheryls place

Where Ranka was staying when working for the goverment.

So, it is not option 3.

Edited September 12, 2008 by VF-25 Messiah

[sharky]

hey, uhh, you guys remember...

...in Zero, Shin was gonna

all-out kamikaze into the Sara-controlled AFOS to try to stop her before Mao holo'ed in at the last minute

.

ain't it a little bit similar to what Alto is thinking of doing to Ranka if desperation happens?

Isamu did it to Sharon, too, you know. In Plus, that is.

just sayin...

The thing is, I don't think Shin realized she was inside the Birdman until the last minute.

[shinkirou]

The thing is, I don't think Shin realized she was inside the Birdman until the last minute.

so are you implying that maybe alto have already fired mde bombs to the carrier where ranka is? ahehe XD

[akt_m]

I wonder if anyone still believes that Michael is not dead.

[RichterX]

The thing is, I don't think Shin realized she was inside the Birdman until the last minute.

i think you have to rewatch Zero, he was very aware she was the pilot of the Birdhuman, he made a zoom into the "cockpit of the birdhuman" when he was approaching before Ivanov went splat.

[Knight26]

Interesting so the Varja are a Gestalt entity, many acting as one, this is quite different from a hive mind/brain, in which a single entity controls the rest of the group. In a gestalt each individual adds to the hole, so while a single entity might have the intelligence a dog that got its head run over, the more you add to the group the smarter the group becomes until achieves a sort of sentience. It is a very cool idea and not one I have seen used very often, at least not well. Infact only three instances come to mind, the book "More than Human," brilliant book by Theodore Sturgeon, the old Dynamo Joe comic, wherein the bad guys, the Mellenares, were a gestalt entity, and the original incarnation of the Borg from Star Trek (not the Borg as they appeared later with multiple queens, and more bent on assimilating beings then technology.)

[Super Ostrich]

The scenes of the Frontier civilians wearing gasmasks as Leon gave his speech was reminiscent of pictures of Japanese civilians as they prepared for the invasion of Japan, and Alto's attitude in saying he would kill Ranka sounds like gyokusai to me. Leon will sacrifice everything to achieve his goal (whatever it is). Ichioku gyokusai!

Frontier has reached to the point where they can no longer self-supported due the heavy damage inflicted by Vajra. This can be seen when they abandoned more islands. In the assembly meeting a senator proposed to give up the journey and seek help from New U.N. government. Leon announced that there is a better solution for the crisis. Later they located the Vajra planet by tracking the fold wave from Ranka's singing. Based the data collected from the ghost probe, they determined that this planet is in human-habitable Class A.

So, it is the Leon's goal: eliminate Vajra and take over their planet, sound familiar to what we human has been doing, uh?

Super Ostrich

Edited September 12, 2008 by Super Ostrich

[Vinnie]

Rather, it may well be Sheryl's generally-correct intuition kicking in, picking up on something in-universe that we outside observers didn't or couldn't.

Like that the Hory Froating Head himself is actually a huge AltoxRanka 'shipper?

[Valkyrie addict]

wow, a lot of speculation here about Sheryl and Ranka...

time for me to add a little spice... question: is Nanase a lesbian or what!??! seriously, the chick has a firm infatuation on Ranka, she always gets that satisfaction look when Ranka arrives and that Ranka/angel/saviour painting on her bedside is just disturbing

[Valkyrie addict]

oh yes, there must be some serious fault with the Miclonization device on frontier, cause Nene? (is it?) looks damn fine as a full sized meltran

[MisaForever]

oh yes, there must be some serious fault with the Miclonization device on frontier, cause Nene? (is it?) looks damn fine as a full sized meltran

Why would there be fault with the device?? Or course she looks hot, she's a Meltran!

[Shun]

Alto gets a promotion again. Now he's a 1st Lieutenant, and squadron leader.

a kiddo at 17. a kiddo with fiery temper. who has a thick head.

with Warrant Officer Malyama as his sidekick. this guy just loves talking, he's the same VF-171EX pilot from last ep.

Boy meets girl, boy meets woman, woman falls ill, boy decides he loves girl, boy kills girl, woman dies?

YAY!

Kill them aaaaaaaaaaall.

Yeah!! I'm with u on killing them all

just to add to your story summary (in bold):

Boy meets girl, boy meets woman, woman falls ill, boy gets AIDS... errrm V-type virus from woman thru unprotected sex, boy decides he loves girl, boy kills girl, woman doesn't die because v-type infection gets transferred to boy, boy dies.

Although we wouldn't want to know how the woman gets her STD in the first place.

Everyone can't get the ending they want...heck I still want Hikaru to be with Minmay! 2 eps to go

OMG!!! REALLY?

i thought i'm the only ONE FAN of Hikaru x Minmay!

seems like everyone else is a Minmay-hater. I still blame it on people who only watch DYRL w/o watching the TV series (or watch DYRL before TV), OR more possibly people who watched Robocrap first.

i feel so happy i'm not alone i'm so sure the marriage between the MCP Hikaru and bossy Misa couldn't work out for long. Basara being the lovechild of Hikaru x Minmay isn't too far-fetched afterall

So what was Alto's idiot brother talking to him about?

What he always does - he brain-washes Alto and tells him that he's the best actor, that he's still acting in his fighter-pilot role.

n the thick-skull seems to be buying it. duh.

PS > wow Luca looks absolutely horrible in his NUNS uniform... LMAO... (why's Alto n KK still wearing SMS?)

Edited September 12, 2008 by Shun

[VF-25 Messiah]

OMG!!! REALLY?

i thought i'm the only ONE FAN of Hikaru x Minmay!

seems like everyone else is a Minmay-hater. I still blame it on people who only watch DYRL w/o watching the TV series (or watch DYRL before TV), OR more possibly people who watched Robocrap first.

i feel so happy i'm not alone i'm so sure the marriage between the MCP Hikaru and bossy Misa couldn't work out for long. Basara being the lovechild of Hikaru x Minmay isn't too far-fetched afterall

Not being a Hikaru x Minmay fan doesn't mean you're a Minmay hater. I love Minmay, wonderfully portrayed character, and very human. But that love triangle ended the way it should have.

I've seen both the TV-series and DYRL, but not RT, for the record.

[sucker4meltrans]

seeing the SDF-4 going down like that in the flash back gets me a little chocked up. alto still loves his mommy way too much. nanase's painting of ranka is a creeepy. the NUNS uniform on luca looks too big. it looks like alto and sheryl are crashing in ozma's house.

Edited September 12, 2008 by sucker4meltrans

[Shun]

Not being a Hikaru x Minmay fan doesn't mean you're a Minmay hater. I love Minmay, wonderfully portrayed character, and very human. But that love triangle ended the way it should have.

I've seen both the TV-series and DYRL, but not RT, for the record.

yup but u watched DYRL first before TV series.

and Minmay was quite badly portrayed in DYRL, esp with that part where she wished everyone else died.

I could see how that could've affected anyone's opinion of her (if they didn't watch TV series first).

PS > if the events only happened like in DYRL, i'd agree the Hikaru x Misa ending.

The TV version is more complex. although at first Minmay was more interested in her career, she seemed to only realize her love for Hikaru near the end, but it was too late (of coz the sly B* Hikaru would've spent a few nights with Minmay before deciding to go with Misa...). grrr

Edited September 12, 2008 by Shun

[Dervish]

PS > wow Luca looks absolutely horrible in his NUNS uniform... LMAO... (why's Alto n KK still wearing SMS?)

To illustrate his indecisive nature!