lord_breetai Posted October 22, 2004 Share Posted October 22, 2004 LOL, he made fun of your favorite mecha...hmm, would it happen to be that stupid tank with the exposed cockpit or those horribly weak Logans? You know...Im pretty certain that the only sources that state the Logan is weak come from either the novelizations of Robotech or the RPG. Both sources are incredibly flawed. As for the Spartas....well....Im gonna repost thoughts HoverTanker (a RL Army Tanker) had on this subject Personally, having the cover (I refuse to call it a canopy, as canopies are for aircraft, and this is armor) on the VHT would be more of a liability in MOUT (military operations in urban terrain). In MOUT, you need full vision. Armored units in urban enviroments must go hatches open for better vision. With the body armor used my the ASC, they would not need to worry about small arms fire and artillery fragments (the main cause of casualities in combat). And with the improved vision, the VHT will be operated more effectivly. And since the main force to occupy and defend urban centers is infantry, you will need that improved vision. Not only will the VHT be more effective, but the ability of the VHT to support the infantry advance will be greatly improved. I believe that in space, you would need the additional armor of the cover. With the amount of debris that is leathal in space, the operators (not pilots) would need the additional armor. The armored cover would also be used for large scale armored manuvers. When the terrain is open, and the field of battle is armor and manuver favorable, the armored cover would be used for additional armor. But for the most part, armor runs unbuttoned (hatches open). It is not because of bad air circulation (in fact, the M-1A1 Abrams and M-2 Bradley have great NBC circulation systems, and cooling devices for the electronics). The reason is two fold mainly. One, the ability of the crew to see and react to the enviroment better. And two, because of crew moral. People need to breath, move around, and just emerge from the armored womb that has been sustaining you in combat. Rain and snow have never bothered ground forces. It is something you expect in combat. Not everyone flys to battle, then goes home at night to hot chow, warm showers, and a clean bed. The people who wage warfare know that the "mule" issued by the government is now their home as well. If you have even been inside an armored vehicle, you would know that the electronic systems are "protected" against water. I say "protected" becuase we all know that eventually water will work its way in no matter what. And the seals an armored vehicles are notorious for leakage. Even brand new seals seemed to leak almost immediately. Open cockpit is STILL stupid, kinda eliminates the purpose of calling it a tank. And the Logans are horribly weak and are just plain FUGLY. Southern Cross mecha suck, the Masters Saga SUCKS that's why there is no game or almost no merchandise except for a few mugs and other crap. Oh it's on now, boy... Brook and I we iz going to have to teach you some respect. You will learn to respect the Spartas and fear the Logan. Southren Cross Pwnz all lesser sagas (meaning New Gen) and is only slightly Pwnzed by Macross. I have one Robotech DVD (in comparison to my many Macross DVDs) and do you know what saga that Robotech DVD is from? That's right Masters... cause Southren Cross rocked. Each Episode of the original Japanese Southren Cross is garunted a higher percentage of Michie Tomizawa then a competing Macross product or your money back. Michie Tomizawa Pwns all lesser Seiyuu (thats most of them). Oh what you wanted a serious reply? too bad. But it is a fact SC Pwnz SC' Seiyuu Own and SC's Mecha Own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsu legato Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 Wow, that's some unassailable logic there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent ONE Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 Yes... lord_breetai is obviously a genius. No way anyone can shoot any holes in those points of argument. lord_breetai for President! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JsARCLIGHT Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 I know this is just continuing to derail this thread but I have a slight bit of insight into the whole armor issue... when I was in the army in the late '80s I was in a recon unit attached to the 1st Armored Division and I was around enough armor to call myself an unofficial expert (having never been inside an actual tank though, that 1st AD patch on my shoulder was as close to tank treads as I got in my hummer). When that guy said tanks and armor roll around unbuttoned he is only half right. Yes, armor does manuver unbuttoned a lot... but when going into combat or when being engaged those tank jocks close up those hatches faster than you can say OH SH!T they're shooting at US! The point of armor is to be impervious to small arms and even some larger arms... riding around with your doors open is fine for point to point driving but in a hairball the last thing you need is a stray 7.62 round bouncing into that open hatch and taking out your driver or your commander. I know first hand that the helmets and gear tank crews wear (at least the gear they had back in 88 to 92) could not stop an assault rifle round and was basically only good for keeping your head from banging into all the sharp points inside a cockpit... you get one of those big tanks up to speed and you bounce around like a weeble in a blender in there. Remove the armor from the crew and you might as well mount the guns on a truck because leaving the thing open is akin to doing that. As for the whole "being able to see" thing you can see just fine out of the driver's seat of a M117 or M1A1 with the hatch open or closed... you have no way to look left or right really unless you get up out of your seat and looking behind is impossible anyway unless you are the tank commander or you stand up and pop the top hatch of the 17's. As for the Spartas tanks they are pure fantasy in the end... no real armored vehicle could ever do the things they do or be laid out the way they are. The open cockpits are just a nod towards the whole "chariot and centurion" thing the designers had going on as it poses more real world dangers than it does benefits. Comparing them to real armor is like comparing an F14 Tomcat to a Valkyrie... one is real and thus has definate strengths and weaknesses while the other is pure fantasy and can be and do whatever the writers and animators make it do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_breetai Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 (edited) Yes... lord_breetai is obviously a genius. No way anyone can shoot any holes in those points of argument.lord_breetai for President! Did it occur to you I wasn't trying to come up with a good argument... I just like SC and was having fun? Did that occur to you guys at all? That maybe just maybe I didn't think those were serious reasons for SC being great? and I just did it to amuse myself? Although I do think Tomizawa Michie is great. Edited October 23, 2004 by lord_breetai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macross_Fanboy Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 Yes... lord_breetai is obviously a genius. No way anyone can shoot any holes in those points of argument.lord_breetai for President! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_breetai Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 Yes... lord_breetai is obviously a genius. No way anyone can shoot any holes in those points of argument.lord_breetai for President! Anyways leaving aside the fact I was joking I'm a Canadian Zentradie and they don't let us run for the highest office... I'm also too young... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macross_Fanboy Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 Yes... lord_breetai is obviously a genius. No way anyone can shoot any holes in those points of argument.lord_breetai for President! Anyways leaving aside the fact I was joking I'm a Canadian Zentradie and they don't let us run for the highest office... I'm also too young... Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 If you can't tell the difference between Mikimoto's gender designs (and you can't hold animefriends half assing them in certain episodes against him), then you are a very confused individual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_breetai Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 If you can't tell the difference between Mikimoto's gender designs (and you can't hold animefriends half assing them in certain episodes against him), then you are a very confused individual. Alright Keith... What Gender is Mash from Macross II? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macross_Fanboy Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 Geez, you can't tell?! He's a guy that is gay and talks and acts like a woman. Big Gay Al would like him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_breetai Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 Geez, you can't tell?! He's a guy that is gay and talks and acts like a woman. Big Gay Al would like him. Well I actually heard someone say that in a TIA or something "he" has breats... so I heard he was a hermaphrodite... I'll have to ask where that picture was... Anyways it was a joke... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 If you can't tell the difference between Mikimoto's gender designs (and you can't hold animefriends half assing them in certain episodes against him), then you are a very confused individual. Alright Keith... What Gender is Mash from Macross II? Mash is male, end of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodcat Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 I like Southern Cross. Because it IS wierd and different. Its not perfect, but it tries to do more than the same old same old. Yeah the mecha are kinda ugly. So what? Its an interesting story in either the original or RT version. And ill take either version over Macross 7 anyday. Sheet, Mac 7 is Macross' Spider Man Clone Saga! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 Southern Cross is far below Macross 7, SC while an interesting show, had its episodes cut way too far down to be an effective story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EXO Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 Not to make this another M7 sucks thread, but M7 coulda used a lot of trimming to make it a more effective story... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 That I dissagree with. First 10 or so episodes - situation setup, bad guys are a mystery, Basara has no real effect. next 20 episodes - mysteries of the attackers are slowly uncovered, Basara builds in effectiveness, and the true plot starts to take ground remaining 19 - all mysteries are revealed, including those of the Protocultures history, Basara & Sound Force truly come into power, and the epic ending. A very well rounded story, the first 10 "slow" episodes are some call them being necessary to add story believability. It wouldn't have been nearly as good if Basara had jumped out of the gate being able to do all that he eventually does. Plus the opportunity is given to grow with characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renato Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 next 20 episodes - mysteries of the attackers are slowly uncovered, Basara builds in effectiveness, and the true plot starts to take ground REALLY slowly uncovered. There is a lot more character and plot development in Escaflowne using half the number of episodes than Macross 7. But hey, Shadow force is to be a 90 minute thing. It's like, you've got WAY too much on the one hand (M7) and next to nothing on the other (ShaFo). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st Border Red Devil Posted October 25, 2004 Author Share Posted October 25, 2004 (edited) Little more news... Louie Nichols is confirmed as returning (there was a pic of the new him in Animation Magazine) with a cyborg (droid in otherwords) that bore a resemblance to Janice Em (the JANUS-series). It appears that he is one of the people in the Robotech Research Group now (or could be the head of the organization). I'll have to see if someone at RDF HQ MB has scanned it. Edited October 25, 2004 by 1st Border Red Devil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bandit29 Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 Little more news...Louie Nichols is confirmed as returning (there was a pic of the new him in Animation Magazine) with a cyborg (droid in otherwords) that bore a resemblance to Janice Em (the JANUS-series). It appears that he is one of the people in the Robotech Research Group now (or could be the head of the organization). I'll have to see if someone at RDF HQ MB has scanned it. Huh.. hoo... what I'm a bit behind on my Robotechnology...what's the big deal here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_breetai Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 Little more news...Louie Nichols is confirmed as returning (there was a pic of the new him in Animation Magazine) with a cyborg (droid in otherwords) that bore a resemblance to Janice Em (the JANUS-series). It appears that he is one of the people in the Robotech Research Group now (or could be the head of the organization). I'll have to see if someone at RDF HQ MB has scanned it. An SC character is actually confirmed to be in the series? Yayyy... you have renewed my faith in this series... now if only Dana was confirmed to come back. And the whole Janice Em series bot fills me with hope of actually seeing Janice herself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st Border Red Devil Posted October 25, 2004 Author Share Posted October 25, 2004 (edited) Huh.. hoo... what I'm a bit behind on my Robotechnology...what's the big deal here? Heh, I just transcribed this about an hour ago over at the RDF HQ MB. See how I spend my time off from work being a total geek.... Eps. #44 The Trap Bowie: What is it? Louie: Spare parts of androids! Bowie: Yea, look over there. Its like some sort of assembly line. Louie: I think you're right Bowie. Just imagine the bio-technical knowledge this represents. Its fantastic. Dana: I've never seen anything so gruesome. Bowie: Too bad we didn't bring a cam-recorder with us. Dana: Ooh, don't touch it Louie! Louie: Ok, but look at how lifelike the texture is. It isnt cold or metallic like our old cyborgs. While we might call robots androids, it appears that androids in Robotechrequire flesh (though it can be a clone) implanted with cybernetics while an actual cyborg is totally metal. It does confuse things, but on the whole its not necessarily bad. I just hope that someone at HG had this idea that these are what the JANUS series should be instead of what Macek came up with. Edit: Its not as if artificial intelligence is something necessarily beyond the grasp of humans in Robotech. They already began experimenting with drones in combat starting with the QF-3000E Ghost and then on to the VQ-6 Vandal, VQ-6X Shadow Drone and QSR-19 Garm GMP Bot. Hell, even the drink machines, vidphones and such from The Macross Saga could be considered bots. And though I generally have little love for anything Macek came up with, he seems to have confused the Logan with what he calls the Logan in Drone Bomber Configuration.....implying that there could have been a drone version of the Logan in The Sentinels: VQ-8 Logan. Edited October 25, 2004 by 1st Border Red Devil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent ONE Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 Southern Cross is far below Macross 7, SC while an interesting show, had its episodes cut way too far down to be an effective story. I think SC licks balls, but it was still WAY better than M7. The story didn't make me want to hurt people like M7 did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_breetai Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 That I dissagree with.First 10 or so episodes - situation setup, bad guys are a mystery, Basara has no real effect. next 20 episodes - mysteries of the attackers are slowly uncovered, Basara builds in effectiveness, and the true plot starts to take ground remaining 19 - all mysteries are revealed, including those of the Protocultures history, Basara & Sound Force truly come into power, and the epic ending. A very well rounded story, the first 10 "slow" episodes are some call them being necessary to add story believability. It wouldn't have been nearly as good if Basara had jumped out of the gate being able to do all that he eventually does. Plus the opportunity is given to grow with characters. Honestly Keith I love Macross 7 but it could have been shorter... it dosn't get interesting until City 7 and Battle 7 are seperated and the number of episodes prior to that could have been cut down... But thats just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_breetai Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 Janice's human form revealed. ^^ it reminds me of Cutie Honey so I made this pic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegis! Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Damn it , this is actually so sad Really , do they expect this to be a success ? If the guy who did Mucha Lucha ! and Timon and Pumbaa ( read that ? it´s freaking Timon and Pumbaa for christ´s sake ) is writting Shadow Force then we´re for a great Sentinels sequel ( in that it´ll follow it´s shittyness ). Yukikaze graphics by Tatsunoko ? YEAH RIGHT , they wish , what have they pulled out recently that´s even close to Yukikaze ? Hopefully this marks the final episode for HG and they go to bankrupt because of low sales. They act as if RT was a mainstream , recognisable and admired series but RT is just as niche as Macross is in Japan, so this ought to be a good time for a laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercurial Morpheus Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 That I dissagree with.First 10 or so episodes - situation setup, bad guys are a mystery, Basara has no real effect. next 20 episodes - mysteries of the attackers are slowly uncovered, Basara builds in effectiveness, and the true plot starts to take ground remaining 19 - all mysteries are revealed, including those of the Protocultures history, Basara & Sound Force truly come into power, and the epic ending. A very well rounded story, the first 10 "slow" episodes are some call them being necessary to add story believability. It wouldn't have been nearly as good if Basara had jumped out of the gate being able to do all that he eventually does. Plus the opportunity is given to grow with characters. Good to know something happens. I'm still on episode six and am finding it horribly redundant. It's like the first five we're the same episode with a somewhat different story structure. Nice pic lord_breetai, though Janice looks considerably too menicing to remind me of Honey. She looks like the type that would gut you for calling her such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenius Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 I think SC licks balls, but it was still WAY better than M7. The story didn't make me want to hurt people like M7 did. Agent One speaks only the truth. You know he's right, he's gotta be right, 'cause he's of the same opinion of me... and you know I'm always right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VF5SS Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 I think SC licks balls, but it was still WAY better than M7. The story didn't make me want to hurt people like M7 did. Just shut up already! You don't like Macross 7, we get it. Southern Cross is cool too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st Border Red Devil Posted March 25, 2005 Author Share Posted March 25, 2005 Some more pics courtesy of Darkwater. These are from this month's Newtype USA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
areaseven Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 You call those ship designs? HG should've hired Knight26 instead of whoever designed those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowlightman Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 You call those ship designs? HG should've hired Knight26 instead of whoever designed those. Er, now everyone's hating on Mospeada designs because HG's using them for the new Robotech series? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 Actually, the Horizon looks nice. Hope it's the same for the rest of the craft. Still, I've never been big with the CG-Hand Drawn stuff: it can be done good, but often is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st Border Red Devil Posted March 25, 2005 Author Share Posted March 25, 2005 (edited) Ok... what farting jackass hacked the name of this thread. I never wrote Shadow Farce news. Its Shadow Force news. Edited March 25, 2005 by 1st Border Red Devil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowlightman Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 Ok...what farting jackass hacked the name of this thread. I never wrote Shadow Farce news. Its Shadow Force news. Guessing it was a mod having some fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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