Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith

[JsARCLIGHT]

I can agree with that. Having kids "softens" people. I know a cop who is a friend of mine that I met before he got married. He was a wild man then, three sheets to the wind and not a care if he lived or died. When he got married he started playing things safer and then last year when he had a kid he is one of the most careful people I know. He has gone to great lengths to clean up his vocabulary, he stopped smoking and he is very careful about everything he does. Wild man to mild man in two years.

The whole "directors wanting to do kiddie fare" is all too common. A lot of big name directors, once they have kids, do at least one "kids" project. Most of the time the reasoning is "I want to show my young children what daddy/mommy does"... and to go one step further some writers/directors once they have kids become ashamed of their past works for being too -fill in the not child appropriate here-.

[Agent ONE]

Nope never was.

I was a private, a corporal and a sergeant though. 

341969[/snapback]

Your retorts are seeming fanboyish (especially the " "), did you sell your soul on eBay? Fanboys have no soul.

[JsARCLIGHT]

Your retorts are seeming fanboyish (especially the " "), did you sell your soul on eBay?  Fanboys have no soul.

342365[/snapback]

I'm actually a freak of nature, I was born without a soul. I learned at an early age this made me perfect for bashing the work of people in the entertainment industry and making flippant remarks about trivial matters.

I can sell your soul on eBay for you if you want me to... I bet it will fetch top dollar. I'll have to say we'll only ship within the US as I think your soul qualifies as firearms parts.

[Cmdr. Grant]

Over the years, I've heard a lot of complaining about the PT, but I think a lot of that is that the OT has been placed on this pedastal, not so much that it's inherantly better.  At work, to promote Star Wars Battlefront II, we put a New Hope and Return of the Jedi in our TV towers.  From inside the store, we could hear but not see the films.  I can safely say that the dialogue and acting is most definately as bad in those films as any of the prequel trilogy.

Well I'm not exactly sure comparing the dialogue tracks between the old and new movies is exactly a good way to compare movies, since both and meant to be watched and acting is as much about facial expressions and body language as it is about annunciating lines from a script.

At any rate, my experience has been the exact opposite... I'd rewatched the trilogy a little bit ago to make sure that it wasn't just nostalgia that made me think the originals much better movies. It wasn't. The dialogue, while campy in a few places, was delivered in a much more compelling, convincing, and entertaining manner (then again the OT had the benefit of Ford's ad-libbing). The writing, while not academy award stuff, was simply tighter and better. It wasn't that much longer after that I saw Sith, and although I enjoyed it as Star Wars themed fluff, I ended up groaning and rolling my eyes in more places than I cared to. The two shouldn't produce such different reactions from me when they're see so close together and in context of each other.

I'd also shown A New Hope to a friend who actually hadn't seen most of the OT before and even he could see the differences and why I might enjoy one more than the other. The actual differences between the PT and the OT isn't illusion or nostalgia. Nostalgia and familiarity do make us react more strongly when we spot those differences... but there have been too many reasonable critiques and too many well-argued comparisions of the two films for the differences to be explained away glibly as being just a figment of our imaginations.

-Al

341985[/snapback]

I concur. While I do enjoy the prequels the kiddyfication of the first three episodes greatly reduces movies that (with better direction) could have equalled or bettered their predecessors. The younglings bit I can get over. The lame dialogue is livable too(hey it's Star Wars) but battle droids making smart alleck comments when Greivous (funny how he was more intimidating in the clone wars series) snatches the sabers, or screaming in terror as two Jedi slaughter them, and R2 roasting two super battle droids (mercifully ending their tinny kiddy voices) these items served to weaken an already badly directed film which had the potential to be the best of all six.

[Cmdr. Grant]

The general comments from people I know who saw it is that it seemed like Lucas did as little as possible in the first two movies, then tried to jam pack the third one with all the loose ends.

Other than the Podrace, not sure if Phantom Menace was all that necessary. Would have been nice to see Anakin start the series much older and then show a gradual shift to the dark side of the Force.

Years ago, Frank Darabont (Shawshank) was interviewed and he said he discussed doing some writing for the prequels with Lucas. And I wish that had happened. Even drag Lawrence Kasdan out of retirement. The writing for the prequels was pretty bad in spots. Particuarly the strange explanation that the Jedi order was based on a genetic condition.  Also outside of MacGregor and Neeson, the rest of the cast was pretty bland. I know Wes Bentley ( the camera psycho kid from American Beauty) was up for the role of Anakin, I could have seen him being the kind of brooding creepy guy that would end up as Vader.

While I don't think its a completely fair comparison, I think TV Smallville got the falling from grace effect much better than Star Wars did, albeit on a much smaller scale. Young Lex Luthor on the show is a guy who is flawed, but you can see there is basic good in him. But slowly his choices, many motivated by his parenting or lack of it, led to his fall from what was good and decent. Thats where I think the prequels really missed the mark, audiences weren't given alot of reason to care about the Anakin character, to see the kind of horrors that shaped his way of thinking and to see more insight into the insidious father/son dynamic with Palpatine. Now that might have been a really interesting look at the character, having both Obi Wan and the Emperor in a tug of war to see which would win out as the 'father' figure. Then again if it was up to me, I'd make Amidala as Obi Wans wife, now that would have been some really dark stuff. Imagine Obi Wan swearing to look after Luke and Leia, knowing full well they are the seed of his cheating wife.

I enjoyed alot about the new trilogy, I just feel like Lucas took the 'tragic' aspects out of a series meant to be a tragedy.

341498[/snapback]

Padme and Obi-Wan would have made sense. Perhaps thats why it didn't happen. I mean Padme was in her early twenties when she met child Anakin and 12 or 14 years later she's still single, good looking, hasn't aged a day since EP I and has the hots for this young idiot over a wiser Obi Wan who is closer to her own age. I think a Macrosseque love triangle would have worked as well.

[Black Valkyrie]

Weak prequels or not, I saw it recentley and I still like it especailly the scenes with Palptine/Sidious.

[Sumdumgai]

And yet this is the same Lucas who brought us American Grafitti and THX 1138....where did it go wrong George?

342322[/snapback]

He had children.

Just after Empire and Raiders of the Lost Ark and before Jedi and Temple of Doom, he both adopted a child and divorced his wife. Now, this is just a lame theory of mine and some might find it offensive that I am psychoanalyzing this guy from afar, but the result of these life events was Short Round and Ewoks. And it's a long, ever accelerating downward slide of pratfalls, fart jokes, and pandering to pre-teen children ever since. . .

H

342358[/snapback]

Psychoanalysis is crap.

But yeah, having kids tends to screw you up. Unless you're the kind of parent that is a bad parent and lets your kid do whatever they want, and get away with everything. You smoke in the same room as them, you let them drink, you let them watch you have sex with the next door neighbor's wife, and the husband too. In which case, you wouldn't have ewoks owning the emperor's legion of best troops. Or gungans... *shudder*

[Max Jenius]

Amidala was 14. Anakin was 8. You'd be amazed how many couples you can meet where the woman's age exceeds the man's by several years.

If Anakin was some dark, brooding character it would have been more obvious to the Jedi that he was evil. The dark side of the force is the passionate side of the force, where intense, inward thinking emotions give you strength. You see Anakin slowly over the course of the movies shift from being a compassionate force sensitive "chosen one," thinking of helping others all the way to the /vaderno. I like how George had Hayden play Anakin in both Episode II and III, especially considering that he is Luke Skywalker's father someone famous for being a "whiner."

Also, about the loose ends, iirc Lucas said for years it would be the one where all the mysteries are solved.

Anyway, that's how I feel about 'em. I'll have to pick up Episode I on DVD now to complete my collection. I don't think I like any SW enough to get much more than what's already been released (As far as DVDs go) but who knows, maybe the rumored television show will be worth watching.

[Jemstone]

And the contents of the bonus DVD from Wal-Mart are?

[Black Valkyrie]

Lucas said before the PT won`t be like the OT, it`ll be more soap opera. I my self don`t like to much CG especially the neon type, it reminds me of Batman and Robin.

[Cmdr. Grant]

Amidala was 14. Anakin was 8. You'd be amazed how many couples you can meet where the woman's age exceeds the man's by several years.

If Anakin was some dark, brooding character it would have been more obvious to the Jedi that he was evil. The dark side of the force is the passionate side of the force, where intense, inward thinking emotions give you strength. You see Anakin slowly over the course of the movies shift from being a compassionate force sensitive "chosen one," thinking of helping others all the way to the /vaderno. I like how George had Hayden play Anakin in both Episode II and III, especially considering that he is Luke Skywalker's father someone famous for being a "whiner."

Also, about the loose ends, iirc Lucas said for years it would be the one where all the mysteries are solved.

Anyway, that's how I feel about 'em. I'll have to pick up Episode I on DVD now to complete my collection. I don't think I like any SW enough to get much more than what's already been released (As far as DVDs go) but who knows, maybe the rumored television show will be worth watching.

342711[/snapback]

I thought she was around twenty. Makes a little more sense.

[Cmdr. Grant]

Weak prequels or not, I saw it recentley and I still like it especailly the scenes with Palptine/Sidious.

342701[/snapback]

Yup. Ian McDirmid solidified this flick (it's a criminal act to have cut his other scene). Ewan was excellent as well. Especially when he confronts Vader after he had strangled Padme.

Despite all the sabre fights this movie had only one, the Windu/Sidious fight had any real passion in my opinion. Sure the Vader/Obi-Wan fight had a lot of flash and bang it was only toward the end where it seemed to draw you in. Mace and Sidious despite the relative slow pace brevity of their duel had some supense. Those two had a lethal chemestry that made the fight all the more interesting.

[Sumdumgai]

I like how George had Hayden play Anakin in both Episode II and III, especially considering that he is Luke Skywalker's father someone famous for being a "whiner."

342711[/snapback]

Heh, it was genetics. Luke was doomed to angst like daddy.

I liked Hayden Christenson as Anakin. He played the part well enough in my eyes, the problems lie more with Lucas' script and directing.

Lucas: "I want you to act like Keanu Reeves. That man can act!" [says in his creeky voice, sounding like an old man in a middle-aged man's body]

[Black Valkyrie]

Weak prequels or not, I saw it recentley and I still like it especailly the scenes with Palptine/Sidious.

342701[/snapback]

Yup. Ian McDirmid solidified this flick (it's a criminal act to have cut his other scene). Ewan was excellent as well. Especially when he confronts Vader after he had strangled Padme.

Despite all the sabre fights this movie had only one, the Windu/Sidious fight had any real passion in my opinion. Sure the Vader/Obi-Wan fight had a lot of flash and bang it was only toward the end where it seemed to draw you in. Mace and Sidious despite the relative slow pace brevity of their duel had some supense. Those two had a lethal chemestry that made the fight all the more interesting.

342760[/snapback]

Yes I agree I like to watch Windu vs Sidious more than Obi vs Anakin. I think most of you overall like the Clonetroopers.

[MjrMisaHayase]

Man, this topic's been fully revived ever since the DVD came out last week.

[Uxi]

Pretty good DVD. I got the Target Coin to go with it.

I'm hoping for a Diamond Encrusted Ueber Edition of all 6 now, hopefully with all of the deleted scenes edited in (and hopefully some of the ones we know exist but haven't been included, particularly for the original trilogy).

[eugimon]

Pretty good DVD.  I got the Target Coin to go with it.

I'm hoping for a Diamond Encrusted Ueber Edition of all 6 now, hopefully with all of the deleted scenes edited in (and hopefully some of the ones we know exist but haven't been included, particularly for the original trilogy).

342827[/snapback]

good god noooooo! don't edit in those dreadful scenes! oh for the love of god no!!!

[uminoken]

Yes I agree I like to watch Windu vs Sidious more than Obi vs Anakin.  I think most of you overall like the Clonetroopers.

342770[/snapback]

Hell, to me they are the best thing about the prequels - in the novels/comcis there are some excellent plotlines concerning their individuality and what makes one human (or Corellian or whatever SW term it is). Not too mention they get the coolest uniforms (I'll admit it - I like em better than the Stormtrooper uniforms) I still wish they had been done with real actors on set and not shoddy cg heads

[wolfx]

OT, but i saw some comic drawings of some Imperial "recruitment officers" which feature some really shapely women in Stormtrooper and Pilot suits. Are those part of some comic of some chick Pilot/Stormtroopers or just a one off-sketch thing? Anyone got any idea?

[Sumdumgai]

Any pics wolfx?

[Mechamaniac]

Amidala was 14. Anakin was 8. You'd be amazed how many couples you can meet where the woman's age exceeds the man's by several years.

True dat. They were not so far apart in age for it to be unbelievable. I'm not sure about the Obi-Wan / Padme thing though. I'm not a big enough SW fan to have ever seen this clarified, but either Obi Wan aged VERY badly in the 20 years between ROTS and ANH, or he was much older than he looked in ROTS. I guess he's in his late 30's by ROTS, but he looked younger.

I also agree about the Windu vs Palpatine duel. That was sweet. Up until that time, you could tell Palpatine was evil, but it was right under the surface. It all came out when he broke bad on the Jedi that came to arrest him. You could just see his face twist with evil joy when he ran that first Jedi through, and quickly cut the other two down in pretty short order.

After that though, he kind of went to crap. I wish they hadn't changed his voice SO many times during that duel scene. One second, he was normal, the next, he was feeble sounding old defeated man, then he was croaking NO NO NO, then he was screaming UNLIMITED POWER!, then he was half wheezing when Anakin swore allegiance to him, then his voice changed again, and again, and then he became the cackling old fool when he fought Yoda. Am I the only one that notice that?

[Duke Togo]

The whole age thing is probably the most glaring and significant continuity error in the prequels. I'd say its the biggest mistake Lucas made, period. Episode I Anakin should have been the age of Episode II Anakin, and the same goes for Obi Wan. They are both 10 years too young by the time RotS ends.

The other two biggest mistakes I think Lucas made were odd and misplaced dialog that was either uneeded or out of character, and his need to put all sorts of little special effects into important scenes that distract from the main action. Do we really need stuff like the lava droid flying by the action during the A/OW duel at the end of III?

I for one consider Episode III to be all I need of the prequels at this point (it truly does have some great, classic Star Wars moments in it). I consider II to be a complete waste, but I do think Episode I has some good stuff in it. I think it just needs a good, strong editor to tighten it up.

I dunno, the "Seven Samurai" template always seemed like a natural one for Lucas to follow for the prequels, and he didn't. I never understood that...

[eugimon]

Amidala was 14. Anakin was 8. You'd be amazed how many couples you can meet where the woman's age exceeds the man's by several years.

True dat. They were not so far apart in age for it to be unbelievable. I'm not sure about the Obi-Wan / Padme thing though. I'm not a big enough SW fan to have ever seen this clarified, but either Obi Wan aged VERY badly in the 20 years between ROTS and ANH, or he was much older than he looked in ROTS. I guess he's in his late 30's by ROTS, but he looked younger.

I also agree about the Windu vs Palpatine duel. That was sweet. Up until that time, you could tell Palpatine was evil, but it was right under the surface. It all came out when he broke bad on the Jedi that came to arrest him. You could just see his face twist with evil joy when he ran that first Jedi through, and quickly cut the other two down in pretty short order.

After that though, he kind of went to crap. I wish they hadn't changed his voice SO many times during that duel scene. One second, he was normal, the next, he was feeble sounding old defeated man, then he was croaking NO NO NO, then he was screaming UNLIMITED POWER!, then he was half wheezing when Anakin swore allegiance to him, then his voice changed again, and again, and then he became the cackling old fool when he fought Yoda. Am I the only one that notice that?

342927[/snapback]

they actually did that on purpose.. listen to the commentary for that part... they're quite proud of it actually.

[Mechamaniac]

they actually did that on purpose.. listen to the commentary for that part... they're quite proud of it actually.

342939[/snapback]

Oh, I know, I listened to the commentary the other day. But all Lucas says is that they wanted to change his voice down a little to make him sound more ominous. The voice changes I'm talking about were numerous. I mean, the dude used at least 5 different voices within a 10 minute time period.

[Hurin]

The whole age thing is probably the most glaring and significant continuity error in the prequels. I'd say its the biggest mistake Lucas made, period. Episode I Anakin should have been the age of Episode II Anakin, and the same goes for Obi Wan. They are both 10 years too young by the time RotS ends.

Uncle Own and Aunt Beru also appear to age about 30 years between the end of RotS and ANH. But, well, since Luke is born by then, it can't be more than 16-18 years between the films.

I guess Tatooine is just harsh on the skin. Twice as many suns = twice as many wrinkles.

H

[Agent ONE]

The whole age thing is probably the most glaring and significant continuity error in the prequels. I'd say its the biggest mistake Lucas made, period. Episode I Anakin should have been the age of Episode II Anakin, and the same goes for Obi Wan. They are both 10 years too young by the time RotS ends.

Uncle Own and Aunt Beru also appear to age about 30 years between the end of RotS and ANH. But, well, since Luke is born by then, it can't be more than 16-18 years between the films.

I guess Tatooine is just harsh on the skin. Twice as many suns = twice as many wrinkles.

H

342968[/snapback]

... And Vader's hands were too small.

[Hurin]

... And Vader's hands were too small.

342969[/snapback]

You're thinking of someone else. . .

[Agent ONE]

... And Vader's hands were too small.

342969[/snapback]

You're thinking of someone else. . .

342971[/snapback]

No, it was Vader... It ruined hte movie for you, allong with all that other crappieness like the word "WAR" in the opening.

[Hurin]

... And Vader's hands were too small.

342969[/snapback]

You're thinking of someone else. . .

342971[/snapback]

No, it was Vader... It ruined hte movie for you, allong with all that other crappieness like the word "WAR" in the opening.

342977[/snapback]

MAJESTIC! AgentONE is looking for you!

*wanders off*

[Zor Primus]

George had Hayden play Anakin in both Episode II and III, especially considering that he is Luke Skywalker's father someone famous for being a "whiner."

342711[/snapback]

"But I was going to the Tashi Station to pick up some power converters..."

[Duke Togo]

That's "Tosche"

[Sumdumgai]

Some people age good some people age bad.

My grandpa at 80 was constantly mistaken for a man in his 60s.

Then there are people that age really really badly. Obi-wan aged really really really badly.

I think Ewan Mcgreggor was great as Obi-wan. I like him better than Alec Guiness, even though he was the original.

[Black Valkyrie]

Yes I agree I like to watch Windu vs Sidious more than Obi vs Anakin.  I think most of you overall like the Clonetroopers.

342770[/snapback]

Hell, to me they are the best thing about the prequels - in the novels/comcis there are some excellent plotlines concerning their individuality and what makes one human (or Corellian or whatever SW term it is). Not too mention they get the coolest uniforms (I'll admit it - I like em better than the Stormtrooper uniforms) I still wish they had been done with real actors on set and not shoddy cg heads

342863[/snapback]

Same here especially from Episode-III.

[Max Jenius]

I guess it would have made more sense to me if betrayal started over an 'evil' Amidala versus a kind of contrived plot to protect her.

I could see a good man turning dark moreso from his conniving manipulative woman than I can over the urgings of a quasi mentor politician.

343058[/snapback]

I could see that working somewhat.

[eugimon]

I guess it would have made more sense to me if betrayal started over an 'evil' Amidala versus a kind of contrived plot to protect her.

I could see a good man turning dark moreso from his conniving manipulative woman than I can over the urgings of a quasi mentor politician.

343058[/snapback]

meh. it works better that vader turns evil out of a strong desire to do good rather than being tricked into doing evil.