Ghost X-9: Chaff or Atmospheric Explosive?

[Aurel Tristen]

This is an old topic, apologies. But, it hasn't been talked about in a while. Just got the two Macross Plus DVD Box Sets in the mail today(Man they are so much clearer than Manga Video's crap) while watching Episode 4, I pondered about is shown in Macross Plus.

The Ghost X-9 appears to drop two large dispenser which split into two halves well in front of Guld and Isamu and release tons of sparklie stuff. Someone (Dave Deitrich ) might think that its just chaff. But if its just chaff, why would the Ghost drop it when no missiles were fired upon it? and.... if it were just chaff, why would there be so much of it? : )

As the particles disperse are spread out They appear to pass through the parameter-then out out no where.... explosions in mid air-no missiles fired or guns or beams. This must be an exlosive which reacts to elements within the Earth's atmosphere. At least that's what I think. Anyone else?

[twich]

I noticed that too...but I thought it was some future form of a Rockeye canister. Something that releases a whole bunch of sub-munitions. In the next shot after that both Isamu and Guld evade to avoid the "particles" for lack of a better word. Maybe they ignite and would burn through the armor of the valks if it were to hit them. For all we know it could be chunks of Magnesium or phosphate..something that burns really hot and will not stop burning until it is out of fuel.

I guess only Kawamori could tell us for sure....but I think that it would make for a good topic to discuss.

Larry

[Aurel Tristen]

I noticed that too...but I thought it was some future form of a Rockeye canister. Something that releases a whole bunch of sub-munitions. In the next shot after that both Isamu and Guld evade to avoid the "particles" for lack of a better word. Maybe they ignite and would burn through the armor of the valks if it were to hit them. For all we know it could be chunks of Magnesium or phosphate..something that burns really hot and will not stop burning until it is out of fuel.

I guess only Kawamori could tell us for sure....but I think that it would make for a good topic to discuss.

Larry

they aren't that hot.... they have the same appearence as Macross chaff/flares-which aren't hot enough to do anything to the armor of the fighters.

[valk1j]

Wow just watched it last night and wondered the same thing. It sounds like chaff when you hear Isamu fly through it. So I assumed the AI of the Ghost X-9 believed that it was going to be fired upon by missiles and chose wrong. But your right about those explosions that seem to come from no where. If thats what those particles do, then Isamu and Guld knew about it because they avoided the explosions.

Edited July 1, 2004 by valk1j

[Roy's Blues]

Looks like a type of cluster bomb to me IMHO

[Knight26]

It is probably some kind of combination chaff/flare. IIRC Isamu and Guld hold off on firing missiles for most of the fight with the X-9. Now it is possible that they already expended all their missiles, but I doubt that. Chaff and other similar jamming/spoofing systems can stay in the air for a long time. It is nto uncommon, or at least wasn't in 70's and 80's to see C-130s peppering an area with chaff and flare before fighters and attackers move in for a strike. It is possible with OT that they have developed a more advanced chaff/flare system that hangs in the atmosphere for a long time defeating missile use and forcing the use of guns. This makes sense for the ghost as its design favors high speed slashing attacks, the best defense against which would be a missile barrage. I know some of you will regard this as a form of Minovksy particle making its way into macross, but really it is much more plausible then the magic minovsky particles. Actually something like this isn't that far off, the countermeasure launchers on some ships now launch a slow drop chaff/flare in order to spoof or prematurely detonate incoming ASMs.

[eugimon]

This is an old topic, apologies. But, it hasn't been talked about in a while. Just got the two Macross Plus DVD Box Sets in the mail today(Man they are so much clearer than Manga Video's crap) while watching Episode 4, I pondered about is shown in Macross Plus.

dumb question, I know, but what boxed set?

[Aurel Tristen]

Wow just watched it last night and wondered the same thing. It sounds like chaff when you hear Isamu fly through it. So I assumed the AI of the Ghost X-9 believed that it was going to be fired upon by missiles and chose wrong. But your right about those explosions that seem to come from no where. If thats what those particles do, then Isamu and Guld knew about it because they avoided the explosions.

Actually, I don't think they knew what it was.

[Aurel Tristen]

It is probably some kind of combination chaff/flare. IIRC Isamu and Guld hold off on firing missiles for most of the fight with the X-9. Now it is possible that they already expended all their missiles, but I doubt that. Chaff and other similar jamming/spoofing systems can stay in the air for a long time. It is nto uncommon, or at least wasn't in 70's and 80's to see C-130s peppering an area with chaff and flare before fighters and attackers move in for a strike. It is possible with OT that they have developed a more advanced chaff/flare system that hangs in the atmosphere for a long time defeating missile use and forcing the use of guns. This makes sense for the ghost as its design favors high speed slashing attacks, the best defense against which would be a missile barrage. I know some of you will regard this as a form of Minovksy particle making its way into macross, but really it is much more plausible then the magic minovsky particles. Actually something like this isn't that far off, the countermeasure launchers on some ships now launch a slow drop chaff/flare in order to spoof or prematurely detonate incoming ASMs.

It is likely that at this point Isamu and Guld are out of of missiles or nearly out-wasting them them on each other. If you recall, Isamu fired the large B-7 or B-19A missiles (not known for sure) which took up the major of the weapons bay-if not all and shortly there after Guld shot-off Isamu's engine-mounted FAST packs. As for Guld... well, I think in that rage of getting Isamu-he used all of his missiles as well. That is why we do not see any missiles being after Isamu's narrow escape.

Also, if it is only chaff/flares, then where are the explosions from? They aren't from missiles.

[Aurel Tristen]

This is an old topic, apologies. But, it hasn't been talked about in a while. Just got the two Macross Plus DVD Box Sets in the mail today(Man they are so much clearer than Manga Video's crap) while watching Episode 4, I pondered about is shown in Macross Plus.

dumb question, I know, but what boxed set?

These:

Japanese release box sets

[Akilae]

These:

Japanese release box sets

whoa, those are SCHWEEEET...... how come we never get anything like that over here....

[xMaDxPeNgUiNx]

All the best stuff only comes out in Japan...

[GRAND CANNON]

These:

Japanese release box sets

whoa, those are SCHWEEEET...... how come we never get anything like that over here....

Wow...they are nice!!! Man, if they were subbed....I'd get' em in a heartbeat. May get them just for those beautiful cases!!

(Man they are so much clearer than Manga Video's crap)

Are they that much clearer than the US release? Don't have any issue with mine... (then again, that's all I have seen )

[dna]

Oooooh, pretty...

Damn you for showing me that!!!

[Capt Hungry]

Just got the two Macross Plus DVD Box Sets in the mail today(Man they are so much clearer than Manga Video's crap)

If only I'd looked a little further down in this thread!!!

DOH!!!

Edited July 1, 2004 by Capt Hungry

[eugimon]

This is an old topic, apologies. But, it hasn't been talked about in a while. Just got the two Macross Plus DVD Box Sets in the mail today(Man they are so much clearer than Manga Video's crap) while watching Episode 4, I pondered about is shown in Macross Plus.

dumb question, I know, but what boxed set?

These:

Japanese release box sets

[Aurel Tristen]

Anyways, back on topic....

Thinking back about it, I seem to recall Egan Loo stating that Kawamori said that it was chaff on the old Macross World forums. I could be mistaken though. However, if this is true.... where do the explosions come from? There are no missiles trails....

[TheLoneWolf]

All the best stuff only comes out in Japan...

Actually, the R2 box sets are a mixed bag. Like Nanashi wrote, the video is far superior to the Manga versions. The colors are just right (Manga screwed them up) and there is less pixelation. However, the audio is a different story! The R2's feature Dolby Digital 2.0 whereas Manga's features the better Dolby Digital 5.1 mix! To be fair, the R2's came out before Manga's release, before DD 5.1 was the standard. If you're watching the DVD's on a TV, you won't notice the difference, but on a full blown home theatre system, it's painfully obvious

Anyways, if you guys are looking for clean images (ie: no lame tags or watermarks) and possibility of owning your own "box set", check out this thread from last week. 56k'ers beware.

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?...pic=5050&st=820

[Aurel Tristen]

All the best stuff only comes out in Japan...

Actually, the R2 box sets are a mixed bag. Like Nanashi wrote, the video is far superior to the Manga versions. The colors are just right (Manga screwed them up) and there is less pixelation. However, the audio is a different story! The R2's feature Dolby Digital 2.0 whereas Manga's features the better Dolby Digital 5.1 mix! To be fair, the R2's came out before Manga's release, before DD 5.1 was the standard. If you're watching the DVD's on a TV, you won't notice the difference, but on a full blown home theatre system, it's painfully obvious

Anyways, if you guys are looking for clean images (ie: no lame tags or watermarks) and possibility of owning your own "box set", check out this thread from last week. 56k'ers beware.

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?...pic=5050&st=820

The Japanese audio on both are Dolby 2.0 if I'm not mistaken.

[TheLoneWolf]

The Japanese audio on both are Dolby 2.0 if I'm not mistaken.

I sold off my Manga DVD's a while ago and never looked back. But IIRC, my reciever's display indicated that a 5.1 signal was being recieved from the English audio track, whereas the Japanese track was just 2.0. On the R2's, everything is 2.0.

[JB0]

The Japanese audio on both are Dolby 2.0 if I'm not mistaken.

I sold off my Manga DVD's a while ago and never looked back. But IIRC, my reciever's display indicated that a 5.1 signal was being recieved from the English audio track, whereas the Japanese track was just 2.0. On the R2's, everything is 2.0.

Yah.

Manga remixed the audio to make the 5.1 english track.

[Graham]

The Japanese R2 sets are nice, I have them as well.

Also, although there are no English subs, the English dub is included IIRC.

Graham

[Aurel Tristen]

*Ahem*

Time to get back on topic.... : )

Now that is a whole lot of chaff..... and some pretty large explosions.

Edited July 2, 2004 by Nanashi

[Aurel Tristen]

yes yes, interesting large-explosion-causing chaff-that's it ;; haha

[eugimon]

yes yes, interesting large-explosion-causing chaff-that's it ;; haha

looks like it was some sort of cluster munition... I think modern weapons of that type are usually anti-infantry or anti-airfield.... but since those bomblets were suspended in the air for a while before detination, perhaps they are some sort of proactive chaff system? designed to detonate a multi missile barrage perhaps?

and though the explosions looked large, both guld and isamu seemed pretty unconcerned so I doubt the actual damage potential is all that high... reinforcing the idea that it is some sort of defensive weapon rather than offensive.

[Aurel Tristen]

yes yes, interesting large-explosion-causing chaff-that's it ;; haha

looks like it was some sort of cluster munition... I think modern weapons of that type are usually anti-infantry or anti-airfield.... but since those bomblets were suspended in the air for a while before detination, perhaps they are some sort of proactive chaff system? designed to detonate a multi missile barrage perhaps?

and though the explosions looked large, both guld and isamu seemed pretty unconcerned so I doubt the actual damage potential is all that high... reinforcing the idea that it is some sort of defensive weapon rather than offensive.

Cluster bomb bomblets don't glow or look like chaff.... at least not in this day and age. Mostly chaff. But still those explosions... argh. Sure they weren't too worried about them because they were yelling at each other about who could beat the Ghost/Saving Myung.... they are both pretty cocky.... both not fearful of death. lol

[eugimon]

yes yes, interesting large-explosion-causing chaff-that's it ;; haha

looks like it was some sort of cluster munition... I think modern weapons of that type are usually anti-infantry or anti-airfield.... but since those bomblets were suspended in the air for a while before detination, perhaps they are some sort of proactive chaff system? designed to detonate a multi missile barrage perhaps?

and though the explosions looked large, both guld and isamu seemed pretty unconcerned so I doubt the actual damage potential is all that high... reinforcing the idea that it is some sort of defensive weapon rather than offensive.

Cluster bomb bomblets don't glow or look like chaff.... at least not in this day and age. Mostly chaff. But still those explosions... argh. Sure they weren't too worried about them because they were yelling at each other about who could beat the Ghost/Saving Myung.... they are both pretty cocky.... both not fearful of death. lol

well, that's why I'm thinking it some sort of defensive weapon... like super chaff... bomblets that give off an IR signature to draw off fire and forget type missiles and then secondary explosives to prematurely detonate smart or guided weapons... I further postulate that the large number of chaff/bomblets, wide dispersion area is designed to compansate for the mass missile barrages that seem popular in the macross universe.

Edited July 2, 2004 by eugimon

[Anubis]

Looks like a protective shield to me, most likely intended to defend from a micro missle attack, or as a distraction technique to get in a better attack position.

[Angel's Fury]

It is probably some kind of combination chaff/flare.

It could be that.

[Aurel Tristen]

It is probably some kind of combination chaff/flare.

It could be that.

I believe most (all) chaff looks like that in Macross. Here are various countermeasures:

top large image: the VF-0's chaff (?)

center images:

YF-19's chaff canister/cannister dispensing chaff particles and YF-19's flares (red)

bottom large image: SV-51's flares

[Final Vegeta]

I know some of you will regard this as a form of Minovksy particle making its way into macross

Minowsky particles in Macross was simply a joke, enforced by a detail like "Ionesco City". In fact, Macross has its own ways to obtain basically the same effects employing different technology, like active stealth, ECM and the like. For istance Zentradi were able to block radio communications between SDF-1 and Earth.

As for the scene of the Ghost, I remember I saw something similar in Macross Zero when Roy was chasing Ivanov in the canyon, and Ivanov unloaded on him what should have been some chaff/flares (I think it's a mixture of the two), so I don't think it was a weapon. Maybe it simply blinded or impaired sensors for some seconds. In Macross Plus case it added a smoke screen effect which was still nice.

FV

[Aurel Tristen]

I know some of you will regard this as a form of Minovksy particle making its way into macross

Minowsky particles in Macross was simply a joke, enforced by a detail like "Ionesco City". In fact, Macross has its own ways to obtain basically the same effects employing different technology, like active stealth, ECM and the like. For istance Zentradi were able to block radio communications between SDF-1 and Earth.

As for the scene of the Ghost, I remember I saw something similar in Macross Zero when Roy was chasing Ivanov in the canyon, and Ivanov unloaded on him what should have been some chaff/flares (I think it's a mixture of the two), so I don't think it was a weapon. Maybe it simply blinded or impaired sensors for some seconds. In Macross Plus case it added a smoke screen effect which was still nice.

FV

Yes. Very yummy stuff indeed.

Save the origin of the explosions. : (

Off topic, but you mentioning smokescreen made me think of Genesis Climber MOSPEADA-the Leigoss has a smokescreen dispensing system which reminds me of something the MAT group talked about. Of course its not official and its fan work (stated for Egan : ), but still interesting that they specified that the VF-1 Valkyire was equiped with a smoke system for anti-beam weapon defense. I thought that was pretty neat.

[mechaban]

I don't know if anyone picked up on this but, there is a (for the lack of a better term) Super version of the Ghost. It has two boosters on it's back. I've seen line art showing this once long ago.

At the begining of the fight with the Ghost it is equiped with these boosters.

They are jettisoned, split in half and pepper the area with "particles".

I don't know if they can deliver missles while attached to the back of the ghost.

Anyone have the line art on the Ghost?

[Aurel Tristen]

I will have an entry on the X-9 Ghost soon

Edited July 8, 2004 by Nanashi

[Aurel Tristen]

This is very odd. Kawamori's illustration of the super-pack equipped X-9 says the packs have missiles launchers. On the sides of the packs are what appear to be the capsules that dropped the chaff... could these thing be dropped, split, dump chaff and then fire missiles, hitting the its own chaff?