New Army Rifle

[SupremeKaioshin]

XM-8 Battle Rifle

[Roy's Blues]

Neat gun.

Better avy!

*don't kick the baby* best Ike impression

[Angel's Fury]

SWEET!!! So when will this be in service??

[Zentrandude]

i didnt had a chance to say this when we were talking about this in the other weapon tread but the xm-8 might be the closest thing to the army using the pulse rifles from aliens.

[JsARCLIGHT]

From what I have read about this package from H&K it could be the answer to all the armed forces needs at a cheaper cost than the exsisting M4 they are touting as the replacement of the M16A2. It has it all, several different configurations, tons of accessories, very light weight and very few moving parts. This, if it enters service, will be the one of the simplest and possibly the most "soldier proof" weapon even used by the US. The only cons I can see right now are that some people will still gripe that it will run the ballistic standard M855 5.56mm ammo for the most part (as we have so much of that backstocked right now it is not funny) as opposed to the 5.56mm KE round it was developed with, but that will allow the changeover from M4 to XM-8 to take place with less of a supply headache until stores of the KE ammo become more common in all areas of command. Basically to the common observer, and the gun nut like me, this gun is a more simplified clone of H&K's already impressive G36 combat platform. The guns might as well be cousins as they share the same functions and features just with different bodies.

As H&K also turns out civvie versions of all their weapons it will be interesting to see the civilian legal version of this guy pop up. After all, we got both the SL-8 (civvie version of the G36) and the USC (civvie version of the UMP) so we should get this guy too... maybee call it the XM-9 or something.

[Angel's Fury]

From what I have read about this package from H&K it could be the answer to all the armed forces needs at a cheaper cost than the exsisting M4 they are touting as the replacement of the M16A2. It has it all, several different configurations, tons of accessories, very light weight and very few moving parts. This, if it enters service, will be the one of the simplest and possibly the most "soldier proof" weapon even used by the US. The only cons I can see right now are that some people will still gripe that it will run the ballistic standard M855 5.56mm ammo for the most part (as we have so much of that backstocked right now it is not funny) as opposed to the 5.56mm KE round it was developed with, but that will allow the changeover from M4 to XM-8 to take place with less of a supply headache until stores of the KE ammo become more common in all areas of command. Basically to the common observer, and the gun nut like me, this gun is a more simplified clone of H&K's already impressive G36 combat platform. The guns might as well be cousins as they share the same functions and features just with different bodies.

As H&K also turns out civvie versions of all their weapons it will be interesting to see the civilian legal version of this guy pop up. After all, we got both the SL-8 (civvie version of the G36) and the USC (civvie version of the UMP) so we should get this guy too... maybee call it the XM-9 or something.

Thanks for your insight JsA!!! Hope this pulls through, barring any political interference.

[Agent ONE]

Bad Ass... I love killing machines.

[bsu legato]

Yeah, even though a civilian spec XM-8 would likely cost upwards of $3000 CDN (I'm going to call it the SL-9) I'd still be first in line for one. Then we'd really have something to make those Black Rifle shooters at the range jealous, right JsARC? I agree with Zentrandude that this is probably the closest we'll see to a Pulse Rifle in our lifetime. Has anybody seen a picture of a G36 and an XM8 side by side yet? I wonder why they changed the stock from a side-folder to a telescoping one.

And here's some more gun pr0n

[Angel's Fury]

Oooohhhh! Me like gun!!!

[GreatMoose]

Yeah, I like the sharpshooter version.

[Zentrandude]

Oooohhhh! Me like gun!!!

lol ill add me like bang it makes

*more caveman talk*

[That NOS Guy]

Eugene Stoner, I'm said you never lived to see this.

-NOS

The original modular gun, the M63

[Warmaker]

Just got off the USS Lincoln from a little trip.

Anyways, I've been following this weapon for almost a year (something like that). It's an interesting weapon, but the Marine Corps hasn't bought into it yet. It received some examples via the Army, as did the other services.

As a Marine, I like what I see so far. Much more reliable over the M16 and much, much less finicky (sp?). I like the sights for most parts, but as someone trained with the M16A2 I feel weird not having Iron Sights. I do like the return of automatic, supplementing the semi-auto setting. If it had 3-rd burst along with auto, semi, and safe, I would love it even more.

Other reasons why I like it is the modular capability. Various barrells/receivers can be used. Personally, I despise the short barrelled carbines, especially for a 5.56mm round. If for some gawdawful reason 5.56 is continued to be used, a 20 inch barrell is available to give it some creditibility. I have heard however that 6.8mm isn't out of the question right now and the XM-8 wouldn't have much trouble switching to it. Can't remember where that was said, maybe from an excerpt in the Army times or something (which was excerpted by the Marine Corps Times, IIRC). I also remember seeing the XM-8 configured as a SAW.

The Army seems to like it. As I said early on, the USMC received some XM-8's for testing but hasn't bought into it with the Army (I think due to the whole M16A4 thing). If the weapon goes live witht the Army I hope the Corps' gets into it. I love my M16A2, don't get me wrong. I'm trained with it and very confident with my marksmanship skills with it, but the finicky nature of the '16 bothers me. For some it angers them to no end.

One more thing: If the XM-8 goes full producition, let the standard service round be 6.8mm. And maybe we'll go back to .45 cal for our pistols too

[Agent ONE]

I can't wait to get one... I can increase my killing power.

[EXO]

Reminds me of the machine gun for Quake 2

[F-ZeroOne]

I wouldn't mind betting that the automatic rifle version doesn't get used much - the overall XM-8 looks nice, but historically automatic rifles tend to fall between two stalls - too heavy to be easily ported around, but too light for sustained fire operations. There, as ever, exceptions (the BAR possibly being one), but its always been a difficult one to pull off successfully...

[JsARCLIGHT]

Well, when it comes to the modular nature of the XM-8 and the unified block action that it has doing a caliber change in the course of issue would not be that hard. The action of this gun is much like that of it's european cousin the G36 and the G36 supposedly can be rechambered for different calibers with the simple act of swapping barrel/breach assemblies, bolt and magazines. Any caliber in the 5.56 cartridge case size could feasibly be used. But has anyone seen the ballistics tests from the newer 5.56 KE Kinetic Energy round yet? It's taken the pea-shooter varmint round from a squirrel splaterer/man wounder into an armor piercing monster... and all just from changing the core materials and putting in a tad more powder.

As Warmaker has pointed out the ballistic characteristics of the 5.56 round in shorter barrels make it a tad unstable at distance... but as he also pointed out that is the big reason for the snap-on 20" barrel. The tiny 9" pistol variation will be great for doorbreakers or special operations that require the power but not the range of the 5.56. One thing to keep in mind while weighing this new XM-8 against other exsisting/prototype weapons is it's intended use and the military doctrine it addresses. Technically this gun is still following the old doctrine of light weight/high capacity/short range assault weapon theory. Admittedly it has tweaked that doctrine a bit by adding such features as specialized optics and the interchangeability factor. Basically this thing can be considered to be a "Snap-On" M16, just without the inherent issues of the gas system and sans about two pounds. These guns are not really intended to replace the .308 M14A1 or the sniping platforms we have, it is just supposed to replace the M16/M4. As for comparable arms that you can directly look at this one and compare it to others the two that come to mind right away are this weapon's brother the G36 and the now famous/infamous(?) Steyr Army Universal Gun (AUG). While the AUG is now more than a decade old (and technically was the forefather of these guns) it still has the same features these new breed have taken to the next level.

The true test of these weapons will be their fieldability and how well that polymer holds up under stress... but hell, you can back a car over a glock with no warping or breakage so these things might just be rawhide tough. The other question will be: will they be adopted? After all, it seems that lately even the best of weapons is being backburnered so other parties in power can make their money... who knows perhaps the troops will be walking around with the Cheyney Halburton 4000 next year.

[bsu legato]

I like the sights for most parts, but as someone trained with the M16A2 I feel weird not having Iron Sights.

Not to worry, the newest XM-8 prototypes have backup iron sights.

[Anubis]

That is one of the coolest guns I have ever seen. New uniforms, and now new much improved guns. Awesome.

Lightweight, lots of options, overall slickness, and still cheaper. Well done.

Does have kind of a cool pulse rifle appearance.

A red dot sight by default?!?

Edited June 21, 2004 by Anubis

[fearyaks]

So I am in no way a gun-nut but is this basically the OISW (or whatever the acronym is)?

[KingNor]

neat! if it doesn't jam every couple of rounds we'll be all set! :-p

[Radd]

Looks a bit too much like a Super Soaker in the first picture, especially with the logo stamped on there. Still, doesn't look so bad in all the subsequent pictures.

[Skull Leader]

hmmm, I see that carry-handle getting re-worked before it gets accepted. It looks cool, but it's far bigger than it has to be.

The adaptability of this firearm to many roles should make it a surefire (pardon the pun) hit. And the polymer casing is sure to win friends from out in the field (less weight= happy soldier).

As a full-automatic, I would be concerned about jamming or overheating issues, especially with it being a polymer. I guess I'd have to see a rate of fire vs. magazine load before I could say more about that though.

[Syngyne]

So I am in no way a gun-nut but is this basically the OISW (or whatever the acronym is)?

OICW, and sort of, but not quite.

[Black Valkyrie]

It looks similar like the M-90 from Aliens.

[Cdr Fokker]

So I am in no way a gun-nut but is this basically the OISW (or whatever the acronym is)?

OICW, and sort of, but not quite.

Yeah, the XM-8 grew out of the remnants of the OICW programme.

XM-8 is pretty much old news now, until it gets official adopted as the M8...

[Noriko Takaya]

So...where's the bayonet lug?

Well, you never know. You just might have to use the thing to stick someone...

[wolfx]

So I am in no way a gun-nut but is this basically the OISW (or whatever the acronym is)?

OICW, and sort of, but not quite.

Yeah, the XM-8 grew out of the remnants of the OICW programme.

XM-8 is pretty much old news now, until it gets official adopted as the M8...

Remnants? Is the OICW officially scrapped? I was wondering whatever happened to it and what US claimed to be its next main battle rifle?

And looking at the diagrams of the XM8...wth are:

1.) Captive take down pins

2.) wireless thingamajigs for lasers?

[JsARCLIGHT]

Remnants? Is the OICW officially scrapped? I was wondering whatever happened to it and what US claimed to be its next main battle rifle?

Always in motion is the future... whirling... spinning... changing... evolving. The OICW program started out very nice and has continued to evolve. Things to remember are that H&K was not an active part of the prime OICW program, they developed this XM-8 weapon as part of their part of the program, separate from the other "two guns in one" thing people normally associate with the OICW namesake. This is what most people think of when they hear the anacronym OICW:

This dual weapon system was and still is being developed as part of the land warrior system by a company called ATD (Allied Tech Systems Intigrated Defence LLC). As far as I know this piece of hardware is still undergoing field tests and reliability tests as part of the land warrior combat system. The XM-8, not being part of the land warrior system, was thus not in this phase of the OISW program... but it is part of the greater Joint Service Small Arms Master Plan (JSSAMP).

And looking at the diagrams of the XM8...wth are:

1.) Captive take down pins

A Take down pin is a part of most military rifles that does what it sounds like it does. Takedown pins are little rods that hold together key parts of the weapon. A "Captivated" Takedown pin is one that has a spring assisted retainer pin that keeps the pin attached to the part of the weapon it connects to so it does not fall off and go missing when you are cleaning the weapon in the field. Almost all modern NATO MBRs (Main Battle Rifle) use some sort of takedown pin to hold their main components together. Weapons are not the solid bricks they appear to be and most of the time they are actually held together by sheer will.

2.) wireless thingamajigs for lasers?

I'm not quite sure where you are reading that part but you are most likely thinking of the "wireless" touchpads to activate the laser aiming device. Back in the first days of laser aiming devices most of the time the "on/off switch" was a pad at the end of a pig-tailed wire taped or velcroed onto the forearm or pistol grip of the weapon. Soon after people did away with those "wired" systems by hiding the wiring inside the stock or body of the weapon. Most modern battle laser systems in the field today are wireless in that the on/off pressure pad is contained inside the weapon's furniture and the old school pigtail wires that could catch on things or snag are long gone.

Edit to add the info on the OICW weapon.

Edited June 22, 2004 by JsARCLIGHT

[wolfx]

Jsarc: Ahh....and i tot captive take down pin was some sharp object used to bash a "captive" over the head. Strange that it would be there.

I was refering to this picture

Is the Land Warrior program still on? It seems to be on hiatus or something and might go down together with the Comanches and F-22s.

Thanks for the insight.

[JsARCLIGHT]

OK then, yes the "Wireless remote for lasers" in that diagram refers to the control switches for the laser aiming device being located in the forearm of the weapon but there not being any exposed wires running between the controls and the laser device... and also the controls are not mounted on or near the device, thus in the true webster's definition of the word they are "remote".

As for land warrior, the whole program is just one part of the ever growing attempt by the military to modernize and adapt to the modern battlefield. Land Warrior, from what I have heard, was and still is in development but the trick is the darn thing is still too big, too heavy, too complex and not reliable enough yet. Land Warrior may just be the first rung on the ladder to the next program. Remember that very rarely when it comes to advanced military infantry gadgets do the first generation of something survive to the end. Remember the hassle the military went through with the AR-10 project that eventually became the M16 system... that program was fast-tracked and felt the pain of that fast-tracking. I'll bet dollars to dobermans that in the next few years Land Warrior will give way to something new like Land Master or Combat Master or Master Debator (the new Schwarzenegger movie).

Edit: Me taalk baad, me yooz bad grammer... spel baad.

Edited June 22, 2004 by JsARCLIGHT

[bsu legato]

I thought that the OICW was indeed dead, or at least on hold. I had seen an illustration of what was called the XM-25, which was the the 20mm portion of the OICW (enlarged to a more usefull 25mm) but without the "kinetic energy" portion, aka the forebearer of the XM-8. There's an article about it Here.

ATK themselves have a page about the XM-25 Here.

Edited June 22, 2004 by bsu legato

[JsARCLIGHT]

The story I keep hearing is that the OICW "molted and changed forms" into the newer XM program... OICW created the "Tech" and the XM branch of the JSSAMP was born of it's loins. But on the flip side I keep hearing that the OICW is still being tested, most likely in reguard to the KE ammo.

You never really know with the military, they keep things around just to test the stuff that "doesn't work" so they know how to make something that "does work".

[bsu legato]

Well, to me the XM-25 makes more sense anyway. The original OICW may have been ok in concept, but I (and apparently others in higher places) had doubts about the lethality of the 20mm airbursting munitions, and the snubbie rifle (a mini G36, really) would have been worse than useless at anything other than point blank range. So if the rifle portion isn't worth using, why have it to begin with? Ditch it and increase the size of the HE munitions, which is the entire point of the weapon system to begin with.

[Druna Skass]

I'm signed up over at another message board that has quite a bit of gun nuts in it, and this gun hardly got a warm reception from them. One of the biggest gripes was that it still used the 5.56mm round which they considered to be fairly weak. Some there said the U.S. should switch to 6.2mm (or something like that). There were a few other complaints, but the thread there is months old and I just can't recall what they were.