Agent ONE Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 If Trash were dropped due to lack of projected interest, all official records of its announcement wouldn't have dissapeared without any signs whatsoever left. Obviously a legal smack-down. ... You don't have any evidence of that, you're out of your element. I think your heart is in the right place (Macross) but YOU need not make sweeping statments about things you know nothing about... It derails threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 If Trash were dropped due to lack of projected interest, all official records of its announcement wouldn't have dissapeared without any signs whatsoever left. Obviously a legal smack-down. ... You don't have any evidence of that, you're out of your element. I think your heart is in the right place (Macross) but YOU need not make sweeping statments about things you know nothing about... It derails threads. My ass, your lack of evidence and sweeping statement about my sweeping statement & lack of evidence (be it very likely) is what derails threads. And that my friend is eactly my element! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSW Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 Dear gawd HG, it isn't THAT difficult to come up with some new mecha designs that can do the three form transformation thingy and not have any direct resemblence to Macross (DRYL, Plus, II, 7, etc..) I did this one some two years ago for a thread on the old board about trying to come up with some new mecha designs for HG to fold into Robotech so they don't have to swipe anymore at the beloved Macross designs...Altho it's not in the exact same style as Kawamori (it's a bit too Gundam-ish) with a little reworking it could blend in pretty well (altho I must admit that the way the main body folds up is somewhat simular to the VF-19, but I didn't intend on that) ... not trying to toot my own horn here...but just showing that even I, a untrained "artist", can produce a aircraft basied three form mecha design that isn't ripped off the Macross collective...HG, just think of all the legal trouble and headaches you can avoid if you force your trained artists come up with a totaly new "clean sheet" design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfunk Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 ...I'm beginning to wonder if there is something going on behind the scenes with HG and BW that we don't know about yet. Graham As to DYRL, in a US release, and to a lesser extent other Macross stuff, I'd give you an 80% probability rating that this is true. You guys have to keep in mind EVERYBODY loses if this legal stalemate continues... The fans can't get the products they want... HG has no content to distribute... And Big West sits on content that would be a hit in the US however never goes anywhere. If they do strike a deal, even a not so great deal for one party or the other, just to get product moving EVERYBODY wins. thats exactly what Im saying, the American market is extremly competitive and would drive prices down on all products. that way nobody monopolizes in one certain country Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EXO Posted February 19, 2004 Author Share Posted February 19, 2004 Dear gawd HG, it isn't THAT difficult to come up with some new mecha designs that can do the three form transformation thingy and not have any direct resemblence to Macross (DRYL, Plus, II, 7, etc..)I did this one some two years ago for a thread on the old board about trying to come up with some new mecha designs for HG to fold into Robotech so they don't have to swipe anymore at the beloved Macross designs...Altho it's not in the exact same style as Kawamori (it's a bit too Gundam-ish) with a little reworking it could blend in pretty well (altho I must admit that the way the main body folds up is somewhat simular to the VF-19, but I didn't intend on that) ... not trying to toot my own horn here...but just showing that even I, a untrained "artist", can produce a aircraft basied three form mecha design that isn't ripped off the Macross collective...HG, just think of all the legal trouble and headaches you can avoid if you force your trained artists come up with a totaly new "clean sheet" design. That's awesome work MSW. And thanks for proving my point. It's not that hard for people that love to do this stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsu legato Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 But you forget that they don't want to create new mecha. They want to use the existing Macross mecha. Think of all of those sites that have already assimilated the VF-11, YF-19 and so forth. By all accounts, there's one or two of these individuals in particular who have HG's ear when it comes to RT continuity (sorry if I forget their names). Is it any surprise that they'd want to see this stuff canonized? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EXO Posted February 19, 2004 Author Share Posted February 19, 2004 Besides, using new mecha designs would mean they would have to scratch build toys. Oh the horror! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali Sama Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 If Trash were dropped due to lack of projected interest, all official records of its announcement wouldn't have dissapeared without any signs whatsoever left. Obviously a legal smack-down. ... You don't have any evidence of that, you're out of your element. I think your heart is in the right place (Macross) but YOU need not make sweeping statments about things you know nothing about... It derails threads. My ass, your lack of evidence and sweeping statement about my sweeping statement & lack of evidence (be it very likely) is what derails threads. And that my friend is eactly my element! from what i gather about agent one's education and certifications. He knowes alto mroe about legal matters and copywrite then you and I. H e is extreemly qualified ot make such comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightbat Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 (edited) from what i gather about agent one's education and certifications. He knowes alto mroe about legal matters and copywrite then you and I. H e is extreemly qualified ot make such comments. I have been known to pull a BS story out of my ...thumb and in the end being right about it I don't doubt A1's knowledge, he's well educated in the matter, his post also is very logical and makes sense But without written facts it's still guesswork (but much less than Keith's comment), even he would admit that so it sure doesn't make him an expert on this matter (I work in packing and distribution, does it make me an expert on how Yamato should pack it's valks??? No!) Edited February 19, 2004 by Nightbat® Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godzilla Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 If Trash were dropped due to lack of projected interest, all official records of its announcement wouldn't have dissapeared without any signs whatsoever left. Obviously a legal smack-down. ... You don't have any evidence of that, you're out of your element. I think your heart is in the right place (Macross) but YOU need not make sweeping statments about things you know nothing about... It derails threads. My ass, your lack of evidence and sweeping statement about my sweeping statement & lack of evidence (be it very likely) is what derails threads. And that my friend is eactly my element! from what i gather about agent one's education and certifications. He knowes alto mroe about legal matters and copywrite then you and I. H e is extreemly qualified ot make such comments. Wow. I am impressed if Agent One is lawyer. But it still doesn't explain his affinity toward doorknobs. Or does it? Seriously: Guys, really this is getting kind of petty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druna Skass Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 Dear gawd HG, it isn't THAT difficult to come up with some new mecha designs that can do the three form transformation thingy and not have any direct resemblence to Macross (DRYL, Plus, II, 7, etc..) While I still like it, the battroid mode resembles the VF-XX Zentran Valk too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent ONE Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 If Trash were dropped due to lack of projected interest, all official records of its announcement wouldn't have dissapeared without any signs whatsoever left. Obviously a legal smack-down. ... You don't have any evidence of that, you're out of your element. I think your heart is in the right place (Macross) but YOU need not make sweeping statments about things you know nothing about... It derails threads. My ass, your lack of evidence and sweeping statement about my sweeping statement & lack of evidence (be it very likely) is what derails threads. And that my friend is eactly my element! Keith I am not calling you a sissy-retard, this time. I am however telling you, you have no information... None of us do, so stop making stuff up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaine23 Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 All I'm saying is that if some whack artist threw in an X-wing as an "homage" or "parody", Lucasfilm would smack them around like a crackwhore. Either way, I think this just proves the point that HG, as a company, are inept and woefully underqualified to handle any part of the Macross license. If what Graham suspects is true, regarding BW and HG "working things out"... then we can only pray that HG will import BW approved product from Japan for resale. Because anything they do on their own is so flawed and obviously based on someone else's work anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali Sama Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 All I'm saying is that if some whack artist threw in an X-wing as an "homage" or "parody", Lucasfilm would smack them around like a crackwhore. that might be true for them. thena gain ever played xenogears? so many star wars stuff in there almsot as muhc as star trek stuff. Ali Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druna Skass Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 thena gain ever played xenogears? so many star wars stuff in there almsot as muhc as star trek stuff.Ali Like what? It's been awhile but I really don't recall anything that strikes me as taken from Star Wars/Trek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali Sama Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 thena gain ever played xenogears? so many star wars stuff in there almsot as muhc as star trek stuff.Ali Like what? It's been awhile but I really don't recall anything that strikes me as taken from Star Wars/Trek. frist eney you fight is a rankor, frozenin carbonite. hell one character has a positronic brain implants and anotther character comments if they wil get in trouble with star trek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druna Skass Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 Oh I thought you meant story elements. No wonder I really couldn't remember anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Valkyrie Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 I think it`s better to wait and see where this deal ends if it`s true between BW and hg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abombz!! Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 (edited) All I'm saying is that if some whack artist threw in an X-wing as an "homage" or "parody", Lucasfilm would smack them around like a crackwhore. that might be true for them. thena gain ever played xenogears? so many star wars stuff in there almsot as muhc as star trek stuff. Ali Super Dimension Yggdrasil anyone? It really depends on how much those fighters show up in the comics.... if its just for less then 1 page... then its a homage. Most japanese companies/artists allow that.... anyone still wonder how certain famous anime characters end up in hentai manga? Because they simply don't care enough to go after the publishers. If we are talking about being made part of the continuity... then thats another completly different story. So far... no one knows. So before you guys start picking up your toches and pitchforks (or door knobs in Agent 1s case)..... just give it some time. The Macross 7 Trash manga took a few weeks to go MIA. I love how ppl make storms in glasses of water, here. I'm just glad I'm packing my life jacket. Edited February 19, 2004 by Abombz!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druna Skass Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 Super Dimension Yggdrasil anyone? I thought that "Super Dimention" term was just a generic term for anything huge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abombz!! Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 Super Dimension Yggdrasil anyone? I thought that "Super Dimention" term was just a generic term for anything huge. Right... but considering the ship looked sort of like the SDF Macross and it transformed into a giant robot... its hard not to draw comparisons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali Sama Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 All I'm saying is that if some whack artist threw in an X-wing as an "homage" or "parody", Lucasfilm would smack them around like a crackwhore. that might be true for them. thena gain ever played xenogears? so many star wars stuff in there almsot as muhc as star trek stuff. Ali Super Dimension Yggdrasil anyone? it was awome when you could control it. fire main cannon!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JELEINEN Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 It really depends on how much those fighters show up in the comics.... if its just for less then 1 page... then its a homage. Most japanese companies/artists allow that.... anyone still wonder how certain famous anime characters end up in hentai manga? Because they simply don't care enough to go after the publishers. It's not that they don't care; it's that they don't have to go after them. My understanding is that Japanese IP law is different from the US 'defend it or lose it' system. Someone using a trade marked character in their own fan work, or even a homage of that character in a commercial project does not constitute a threat to their ownership of the character. In the US, on the other hand, such things are threats to trade mark ownership. A company that doesn't defend against those threats is basically saying that they've given up ownership and anyone can use it. In this case, it's a mess because the two parties are in two different countries. The Berne Convention is very explicit in saying that IP belongs to the original owner, but I'm not sure it's 'defend it or lose it' or not. Plus, I'm not sure if this is a copyright or trade mark issue (two very different things). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightbat Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 'defend it or lose it' system. Someone using a trade marked character in their own fan work, or even a homage of that character in a commercial project does not constitute a threat to their ownership of the character. In the US, on the other hand, such things are threats to trade mark ownership. A company that doesn't defend against those threats is basically saying that they've given up ownership and anyone can use it. Sounds to me like a strategy HG might be using all they have to do is hope BW doesn't take action and they have US rights over DYRL as well, next step M+,...and so on every piece of terrain BW gives up will increase HG's, in the end HG might even become owner of everything Macross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ladic Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 'defend it or lose it' system. Someone using a trade marked character in their own fan work, or even a homage of that character in a commercial project does not constitute a threat to their ownership of the character. In the US, on the other hand, such things are threats to trade mark ownership. A company that doesn't defend against those threats is basically saying that they've given up ownership and anyone can use it. Sounds to me like a strategy HG might be using all they have to do is hope BW doesn't take action and they have US rights over DYRL as well, next step M+,...and so on every piece of terrain BW gives up will increase HG's, in the end HG might even become owner of everything Macross the end of the world as we know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewilen Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 No no no. Take a look at Jeleinen's caveats. The defend it or lose it system only applies to trademark, not copyright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent ONE Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 No no no. Take a look at Jeleinen's caveats. The defend it or lose it system only applies to trademark, not copyright. True! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 It seems to me that the Japanese don't really care about chara/mecha from one show guest appearing in another. However, just imagine the fuss in the US, if for example an episode of Star Trek featured an X-Wing. King George would propably throw a fit Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 If Trash were dropped due to lack of projected interest, all official records of its announcement wouldn't have dissapeared without any signs whatsoever left. Obviously a legal smack-down. ... You don't have any evidence of that, you're out of your element. I think your heart is in the right place (Macross) but YOU need not make sweeping statments about things you know nothing about... It derails threads. My ass, your lack of evidence and sweeping statement about my sweeping statement & lack of evidence (be it very likely) is what derails threads. And that my friend is eactly my element! Keith I am not calling you a sissy-retard, this time. I am however telling you, you have no information... None of us do, so stop making stuff up. And what did I make up now? The fact that all information on the release dissapeared without any sign or comment whatsoever from Tokyo Pop or HG? If it were a simple matter of lack of interest, they wouldn't have sought the license, & announced having it in the first place (at the very least it's very unprocessional to do such a thing and then pull it back without a trace). Far more likely they were informed that they didn't have the license, my own theory again being they thought they could snag it from the french company releasing the manga. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Payne Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 Then he must have been popping out bricks like mad with X-wings appearing in an episode of Urusei Yatsura...and the ROTJ parody in another episode of UY... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 What, like Thumb wars was officially licensed by Lucas? Parody law is what allows Weird Al Yankovic to eat. It's why the death star can be talked about in Clerks, the mighty robots from Battlestar Galactica can fight the gay robots from Star Wars on the simpsons, etc. As long as it's not something that's claimed to be an official original part of the story, it falls under parody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Jenius Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 lol@ mighty battlestar galactica robots... the cylons? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 lol@ mighty battlestar galactica robots...the cylons? lol You don't remmber that one? It was the BI-MON-SCI-FI-CON episode with Mark Hammil. Max Jenius - Hmm... must have. (I don't want my post to appear at the end.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumdumgai Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 (edited) Far more likely they were informed that they didn't have the license, my own theory again being they thought they could snag it from the french company releasing the manga. Well, as for the theory about getting it from France, Glénat publishes M7 Trash. It wouldn't be in Tokyo Pop's interest to try to get the license through Glénat, since they would have to get Kadokawa Shoten's permission anyway. In any case, I've been told by my fiancée that they haven't tried getting the license from Glénat. Edit after asking confirmation from my fiancee : Kadokawa forbids sublicensing on the Macross 7 Trash contract anyway, so the sublicensing theory doesn't work. Edited February 20, 2004 by Sumdumgai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaine23 Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 (edited) I'm all for parody and homage... but featuring mecha from another property on the freaking cover of a comic... is neither. Particularly since it's not a small thing hidden... it's easily the size of any of the main character's upper bodies. Sure, artists have long histories of sneaking in background characters, etc into the buried comic panels... but putting something like that on the cover is like advertising that it will be part of the story inside. And how freaking disconcerting is it to see Mac Plus mecha fitted in to a Mospeada collage? It doesn't even fit well. It's definitely not parody... because, well... it's not intended for humor. Unless you count watching Macross fans freak out about it... then, that's probably funny. Edited February 20, 2004 by Blaine23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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