HG and Robotech Debates

[Jasonc]

Now yes, setting up a military base is "colonizing" an area. But military bases aren't really permanent establishments. When we think of colonizing, we think more of Macross, Southern Cross, BSG, or Star Trek colonizing. As in leaving our known solar system.

But at least you understand the difference between setting up a military colony on the moon, and sending over a million people to a habitable planet to grow and preserve the race and to make that planet a new home. Perhaps that difference is too complicated for some.

[Seto Kaiba]

Am I wrong in thinking that setting up military outposts and bases on moons and uninhabitable m-class planets is not the same as finding a new self sustaining planet as home? Somehow, I couldn't help but chuckle at the idiot, and thought I'd clear that up for him, since he probably needs help in understanding a few things. Colonizing and setting up military outposts are not the same thing.

Oh, I agree wholeheartedly.

By any rational assessment, Robotech's story doesn't have the human forces establishing anything that could honestly be called a "colony". True, the REF was supposed to scout for inhabitable worlds on their way to (and from) Tirol, but as we see in the Sentinels comics and Prelude, they never got around to it. Robotech's story has a few military installations scattered around the Sol system, including Moon Base ALuCE, Mars Base, Jupiter Base, and possibly Neptune Base (seen on the Gamma Fighter concept). Outside the Sol system, they have the purely-military Space Station Liberty and their military enclave in Tiresia City on Tirol. The closest Robotech has come to honest space colonization has been the civilian sector on the Robotech Factory Satellite in Earth orbit, and that's still a primarily military installation. Each and every attempt the Earth forces in Robotech have made at launching a colony mission has ended before it began with the ship(s) produced being repurposed for war: The destroyed SDF-2's replacement was retasked as warship and sent looking for the Robotech Masters, the unused Angel-class colony ships were repurposed as delivery systems for the neutron-s warheads, and the sole surviving Ark Angel-class colony ship was repurposed as the flagship of the anti-Haydonite war effort.

[BeyondTheGrave]

So they just storm in and declare an already establish colony theirs? In the name of the RDF!!

[Jasonc]

By any rational assessment, Robotech's story doesn't have the human forces establishing anything that could honestly be called a "colony". True, the REF was supposed to scout for inhabitable worlds on their way to (and from) Tirol, but as we see in the Sentinels comics and Prelude, they never got around to it. Robotech's story has a few military installations scattered around the Sol system, including Moon Base ALuCE, Mars Base, Jupiter Base, and possibly Neptune Base (seen on the Gamma Fighter concept). Outside the Sol system, they have the purely-military Space Station Liberty and their military enclave in Tiresia City on Tirol. The closest Robotech has come to honest space colonization has been the civilian sector on the Robotech Factory Satellite in Earth orbit, and that's still a primarily military installation. Each and every attempt the Earth forces in Robotech have made at launching a colony mission has ended before it began with the ship(s) produced being repurposed for war: The destroyed SDF-2's replacement was retasked as warship and sent looking for the Robotech Masters, the unused Angel-class colony ships were repurposed as delivery systems for the neutron-s warheads, and the sole surviving Ark Angel-class colony ship was repurposed as the flagship of the anti-Haydonite war effort.

What makes the intentions of the REF goofy, is that they are willing to destroy earth, and the people who live there, for what? It makes sense if the REF wanted to have a small human population and live on uninhabitable worlds and on ships, but what sense would that make? Anyways, thanks Seto for clarifying the details of that info. By that explanation, it would indeed seem that the Regis was correct in assuming that humans were following the "children of the shadow", LOL.

[BeyondTheGrave]

After reading the plot aka wiki entry to shadow chronicles. It sounds decent on paper. Someone should take the animation from astro plan 9 from outer space and the audio from RTSC. It may actually improve both series.

I'd say it reminds me of another series but I'd have commit seppuku for even making such a comparison. Or keith would kill me.

[Einherjar]

In hindsight, the RDF had very strange priorities after being constantly at war with whoever. Take for instance the YF-4:

http://www.robotech.com/infopedia/mecha/viewmecha.php?id=60

Despite breathtaking performance due to the latest advances in Robotechnology, its staggering cost and complexity prevented it from entering mass production as the mainstay fighter of the Robotech Expeditionary Force.

Seeking a smaller, more manueverable fighter with increased missile payloads to combat new alien threats, the VF-X-6 program was initiated, eventually leading to the development of the Veritech Alpha Fighter.

Of course, within the production, there was a practical reason for phrasing it like that, but it still sounds like a bad choice. I don't know much about military budgets or how the future society of Robotech works, but when civilization has been devastated, your continued survival is at stake from a crapload of things in the universe, and you have acquired a functioning satellite factory to crank out stuff for a while, why is money still a limiting factor? The payoff should justify the cost. That shift in development probably cost a whole generation of humanity, which Earth couldn't use for the Masters Saga anyway, despite many other factors working against humans at the time. In turn, the Alpha became useless against the Invid until they got free technology from someone else, then got useless again from said technology and said someone else.

When it comes to the preservation of the species, NEVER skimp out because it's too expensive.

[Gubaba]

In hindsight, the RDF had very strange priorities after being constantly at war with whoever. Take for instance the YF-4:

http://www.robotech.com/infopedia/mecha/viewmecha.php?id=60

Of course, within the production, there was a practical reason for phrasing it like that, but it still sounds like a bad choice. I don't know much about military budgets or how the future society of Robotech works, but when civilization has been devastated, your continued survival is at stake from a crapload of things in the universe, and you have acquired a functioning satellite factory to crank out stuff for a while, why is money still a limiting factor? The payoff should justify the cost. That shift in development probably cost a whole generation of humanity, which Earth couldn't use for the Masters Saga anyway, despite many other factors working against humans at the time. In turn, the Alpha became useless against the Invid until they got free technology from someone else, then got useless again from said technology and said someone else.

When it comes to the preservation of the species, NEVER skimp out because it's too expensive.

*deep breath*

STOP TRYING TO MAKE ROBOTECH MAKE SENSE, DAMMIT!!!

[Einherjar]

*deep breath*

STOP TRYING TO MAKE ROBOTECH MAKE SENSE, DAMMIT!!!

I thought I was deconstructing the entire universe this whole time with my ramblings. This time, I just did it economically.

[ps99042]

Stupid me tried to have a logical discussion on Robotech.com with Kevin McKeever and then MEMO and his crew joined the party. Despite my claims that I love Robotech and know future endeavors will see the light of day, I point out the franchise is in a coma (alive but not making much noise which is the truth at the moment) and MEMO and crew start tag teaming that I don't know what I'm talking about. So typical...and I know I brought this on myself but I was pretty bored this evening.

[Gubaba]

Stupid me tried to have a logical discussion on Robotech.com with Kevin McKeever and then MEMO and his crew joined the party. Despite my claims that I love Robotech and know future endeavors will see the light of day, I point out the franchise is in a coma (alive but not making much noise which is the truth at the moment) and MEMO and crew start tag teaming that I don't know what I'm talking about. So typical...and I know I brought this on myself but I was pretty bored this evening.

Just tell Kevin that you'd LOVE to give him proof to back up your claims, but because of the non-disclosure agreement you signed, you can't talk about it.

[Seto Kaiba]

So they just storm in and declare an already establish colony theirs? In the name of the RDF!!

No, they never really seem to get that far... the extent of their work in colonizing outer space seems to have been just plunking down a few military outposts in the outer solar system, and borrowing/renting a compound in downtown Tiresia after they chased the Invid regent's army out. Every planet they encountered that was capable of supporting life already had at least one sentient species squatting on it.

What makes the intentions of the REF goofy, is that they are willing to destroy earth, and the people who live there, for what? It makes sense if the REF wanted to have a small human population and live on uninhabitable worlds and on ships, but what sense would that make?

Exactly what the initial rationale for this particular alteration to Mospeada's story was seems to have been lost to the ages ineptitude of Harmony Gold's staff. Either the REF expected that they'd use their magic protoculture to undo the damage after the planet was a barren wasteland, or they were working from a "better dead than enslaved" rationale and assuming that the Invid had done irreparable damage to the planet's biosphere. Not exactly an unfounded assumption either, since they changed the composition of the upper atmosphere to make it significantly more difficult for REF ships to make planetfall.

Once Tommy stepped in, the rationale became a misguided belief that the neutron-s warheads were much less powerful than they actually were due to misinformation spread by the Haydonites.

Assuming the REF did succeed in wiping out Earth and its millions of surviving inhabitants, that would leave only a few million humans left in the entire galaxy, almost all of them soldiers. The only survivors would've been the soldiers on Space Station Liberty, the outer solar system military bases, the military enclave in Tiresia on Tirol's surface, and the orbital drydocks where the REF fleet was retrofitted with shadow technology.

Anyways, thanks Seto for clarifying the details of that info. By that explanation, it would indeed seem that the Regis was correct in assuming that humans were following the "children of the shadow", LOL.

Which is perhaps the most harebrained retcon of all... the "children of the shadow" remark was, in its original context, a direct implication that humans had been tainted by "the shadow of the Robotech Masters", presumably a general denunciation on the grounds that humanity would rather have destroyed their objective rather than let someone else have it... a more or less reasonable parallel to the defoliation of Optera by the Robotech Masters.

In hindsight, the RDF had very strange priorities after being constantly at war with whoever. Take for instance the YF-4:

As you yourself pointed out, it really was a case of finding a superficially plausible-sounding explanation for why the VF-4 didn't appear in the Masters Saga and/or New Generation. Tommy Yune tried to expound on this somewhat in the "From the Stars" comic miniseries, where the "complexity" rationale is played up considerably by having the YF-4 suffer from severe mechanical difficulties with its transformation process under combat conditions, which neatly sidesteps the need for Tommy to design a transformation and reasonable-looking battroid mode for Macross's non-transformable VF-X-4. At the same time, the early trials of the Alpha were introduced, albeit indistinctly, and explained somewhat in the extra portion of the collected volume. (The VF-X-6 Genia prototype is seen cruising past in one panel)

STOP TRYING TO MAKE ROBOTECH MAKE SENSE, DAMMIT!!!

I'd tell him to leave that sort of thing to the experts, but I don't really want to try to make sense of it either.

Stupid me tried to have a logical discussion on Robotech.com with Kevin McKeever and then MEMO and his crew joined the party. Despite my claims that I love Robotech and know future endeavors will see the light of day, I point out the franchise is in a coma (alive but not making much noise which is the truth at the moment) and MEMO and crew start tag teaming that I don't know what I'm talking about. So typical...and I know I brought this on myself but I was pretty bored this evening.

So... par for the course then? Someone voices a rational complaint, McKeever tells them they're being unreasonable, and his moderator cheering section starts flinging feces like a bunch of amphetamine-fueled chimpanzees.

Edited March 10, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[ps99042]

Gubaba, why didn't I wait for your answer before posting my rebuttal?

[Keith]

I think this gets right to the heart of the situation. With Shadow Chronicles, Yune wrote himself into a pretty big black hole. The Alpha fighters ARE useless. The Shadow Alpha's are even more useless. The "colony" ship they left on has no guns, and it's doubtful they have much in the way of supplies. Even pit-stopping at Earth, it doesn't seem likely they took time to stock up on much, and even then, there's no "protoculture" left to fuel their endeavors.

A future sequal would need a new tranformable fighter. Yune is incapable of designing this, and yet, they know their leftover fanbase will "not" accept a non-transformable fighter. Yune refuses to acknowledge his limitations, and hire someone ::gasp:: creative from outside to solve this problem for him.

there will be no Shadow Rising until Yune figures out how to make a transformable fighter! And then explain where this magical new invention that runs on the Protoculture they don't have came from. Louie Nichols? Are we to believe he's the new robotech deus who can build anything their plot needs? What facilities on board their ship would they use to manufacture these fighters? Trials? Something that can beat their non-descipt level of enemy tech? Which is apparently still vulnerable against min-hand powered arms (ride armors).

I can't help but think Kawamori secretly "does" follow this situation. He took the next logical step that Yune "should have" thought of, i.e. EX-Gears. Had Yune thought of that, it would have been derivative of Ride-Armor yes, but it would have also solved some of his plodding problems with a more direct interface for their pilots to Robotech to. But now he can't even dream of attempting it without fans calling him on an obvious foul. Check and mate!

If only Yune had been brave enough to try what the Chinese did, which is ripping off real world fighter planes with derived transformations, but now Astro Plan has beat him to that punch. If he were smart, he'd use his last best chance, and go for a basic Zeta style flip transformation, and hope that Bandai/Sunrise won't go after him. A small ugly-ish fighter that folds in half for its transormation? Fans would accept that, but oh wiat, Kawamori's done that too with Eureka Seven... A Gattai fighter perhaps? Nope, Aquarion . perhaps a smaller mecha that ejects from a larger one..Kissdum...

Maybe he can rip-off Starscream from the TF movies?

Edited March 10, 2010 by Keith

[Seto Kaiba]

Gubaba, why didn't I wait for your answer before posting my rebuttal?

More importantly, why are you asking him to supply your motivations for not waiting for his response?

I think this gets right to the heart of the situation. With Shadow Chronicles, Yune wrote himself into a pretty big black hole.

Well, there's no denying that Steve, Tommy, and Tom wrote themselves into a corner story-wise, but several of your assertions here are simply incorrect.

The Alpha fighters ARE useless. The Shadow Alpha's are even more useless.

In practical terms, this isn't quite true. Yes, any ship or fighter equipped with a shadow device and/or synchro cannon is essentially worse than useless in combat with the Haydonites. Since all Haydonite ships and fighters are equipped with their disruptor wave technology, any shadow technology-derived systems are almost guaranteed to suffer catastrophic failure. The basic, unmodified Alpha fighter (VF/A-6H, -6I, -6Z) has no such weakness, though its guided munitions (its primary weapon) are next to useless due to the shadow field active stealth systems on Haydonite mecha. So it's not the most accurate statement in the world to say that they're useless, since they can perform adequately once their shadow tech systems are disconnected.

The "colony" ship they left on has no guns, and it's doubtful they have much in the way of supplies. Even pit-stopping at Earth, it doesn't seem likely they took time to stock up on much, and even then, there's no "protoculture" left to fuel their endeavors.

Also not quite true... the official description of the Ark Angel-class colony fortress in The Art of Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles (on pages 116 and 117 if anyone actually gives a shit) does say that it has the "armament and armor of a battlefortress", which in context means that, had it been completed, it would have been comparable to the incredibly pathetic battleships the REF was fielding during the 3rd Robotech War. The breakdown of the completed design does show an incomplete synchro cannon system built into the bow of the ship, and clusters of gun turrets and launch bays identical to those of the Ikazuchi-class heavy carrier from Mospeada. By my count, the Ark Angel-class colony fortress has 28 gun turrets and 16 quick-launch bays, the latter of which should afford it with at least 384 combat-ready Alpha fighters under optimal conditions. Since the ship was only partially complete when it was commandeered to serve as an escape vehicle, we don't know how many (if any) of these weapons systems were even installed, let alone armed, or if the ship's fighter complement had even been delivered.

All that aside, contemplating how they intend to cram 750,000 people and upwards of 350 fighters, plus all the relevant supplies, into a ship that's only 2.14km long is best left to those who are completely divorced from reality.

Insofar as fuel goes, General whatshisface (Reinhardt?) did say that the REF had enough fuel stockpiled to hold them over for around a year before they'd run out completely. Of course, with Tommy's batch of fuel retcons, they'll probably just switch back to nuclear fusion and call it a day.

A future sequal would need a new tranformable fighter. Yune is incapable of designing this, and yet, they know their leftover fanbase will "not" accept a non-transformable fighter. Yune refuses to acknowledge his limitations, and hire someone ::gasp:: creative from outside to solve this problem for him.

Not necessarily... they've already done a weak cop-out with the "Super Shadow Fighter", which will probably serve them in good stead as action figure fodder if nothing else. That may very well be all they intend to do in the way of having new mecha for the remainder of the so-called "Shadow Saga". That said, Yune's original designs (Gamma fighter, Silverback) are atrocious crimes against mechanical design and best forgotten in the reeking midden that is the expanded universe of Robotech.

Edited March 10, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[Saraphys]

though its guided munitions (its primary weapon) are next to useless due to the shadow field active stealth systems on Haydonite mecha. So it's not the most accurate statement in the world to say that they're useless, since they can perform adequately once their shadow tech systems are disconnected.

Yeah... and the Hyperdrive is leaking!

Edited March 10, 2010 by Saraphys

[HappyPenguins]

Stupid me tried to have a logical discussion on Robotech.com with Kevin McKeever and then MEMO and his crew joined the party. Despite my claims that I love Robotech and know future endeavors will see the light of day, I point out the franchise is in a coma (alive but not making much noise which is the truth at the moment) and MEMO and crew start tag teaming that I don't know what I'm talking about. So typical...and I know I brought this on myself but I was pretty bored this evening.

but but, you don't know what you're talking about! Robotech has a lot going on

crappy toys, a lame anniversary complete with shadow chronicles love fest logo, a proposed live action movie thats never going to see the light of day, and shadow rising! see? there's a lot happening

[taksraven]

Any other websites or media groups "celebrating" RT's 25th apart from RT.com itself? ANY sort of coverage at all??

Taksraven

[Aladdin Sane]

Any other websites or media groups "celebrating" RT's 25th apart from RT.com itself? ANY sort of coverage at all??

Taksraven

I've not seen any outside of JT's Protoculture Times Anniversarycasts, no.

[VF5SS]

A future sequal would need a new tranformable fighter. Yune is incapable of designing this, and yet, they know their leftover fanbase will "not" accept a non-transformable fighter.?

he did that gamma fighter thing they never used

[UN_MARINE]

No, they never really seem to get that far... the extent of their work in colonizing outer space seems to have been just plunking down a few military outposts in the outer solar system, and borrowing/renting a compound in downtown Tiresia after they chased the Invid regent's army out. Every planet they encountered that was capable of supporting life already had at least one sentient species squatting on it.

So essentially, the REF's failure/ineptitude for colonizing is symbolic of HG's failure/ineptitude at keeping the franchise alive? Fascinating...

[Seto Kaiba]

Yeah... and the Hyperdrive is leaking!

But... but... what is the hyperdrive leaking?

...

...

...

Midichlorians?

Any other websites or media groups "celebrating" RT's 25th apart from RT.com itself? ANY sort of coverage at all??

Well, the Protoculture Times is doing (or maybe has done by now) a special "anniversarycast", and of course RobotechX had some kind of announcement of the anniversary, but did nothing other than plug the Harmony Gold convention panels. Tho since RTX is basically RT.com Lite, I don't think it counts... particularly since it's run by the Harmony Gold thought police.

he did that gamma fighter thing they never used

That isn't new... that's a transforming version of Mospeada's AF-03 Combat.

So essentially, the REF's failure/ineptitude for colonizing is symbolic of HG's failure/ineptitude at keeping the franchise alive? Fascinating...

Huh... I'd never thought of it that way before, but I suppose you're right. In the story as in real life, the Robotech defenders can't get their act together and do the job they're being paid to do. One could even go farther and interpret the doomed-from-the-beginning nature of the Pioneer mission as eerily prophetic of the futility of their attempts to make sequels to keep the franchise alive.

[Jasonc]

Any other websites or media groups "celebrating" RT's 25th apart from RT.com itself? ANY sort of coverage at all??

Taksraven

There is, but I can't talk about that right now. Does that sound almost like Kevin? If there is something official/semi official, I'll probably go. Aside from a few asshats, there are some really good Robotech fans who appreciate both sides of the fence.

It would be interesting to see what rtx puts together. I'm thinking more likely it'll be a BBQ type thing, like they did for the launch party last year. That was fun, but wasn't anything official, or anything with substance, except for Michael Bradley performing. That was the highlight, and worth the time.

[Seto Kaiba]

But... but... what is the hyperdrive leaking?

...

...

...

Midichlorians?

Oh well, ask a silly question... expect a silly answer.

[Einherjar]

Is it really the 25th anniversary of Robotech? Was March 4th the broadcast date of the first episode? Is this milestone really significant? I couldn't really tell, since no one officially in the anime/sci-fi industry even acknowledged it (I'd like to see it if someone did). The closest were magazine and podcast interviews made well in advance with Carl Macek and a fluff piece by Electric Playground.

What's alarming was the fact that only fans took that day and the proceeding days celebrating in their own ways, while Harmony Gold was pretty much silent, except for maybe a convention stop that coincided with that week. Hell of a way to show how important this day was to the company. Was there nothing to gain for them to show a little bit of pride or something? But maybe they're going to retcon their own anniversary to a bigger date and venue, like their Comic-Con or Anime Expo panel.

Edited March 10, 2010 by Einherjar

[Funkenstein]

Theres no pride to be shown. Harmony Gold knows it, we know it, and most fans of anime know it. Its just the Robotechers that don't realize it.

[Einherjar]

Theres no pride to be shown. Harmony Gold knows it, we know it, and most fans of anime know it. Its just the Robotechers that don't realize it.

I'm not going to judge how fans are going to celebrate it, I just think this reinforces what this year really means to the trademark holders for Robotech.

Edited March 10, 2010 by Einherjar

[taksraven]

Were they ever serious about a follow up to Shadow Chronicles??

Taksraven

[Moly_Sigang]

Were they ever serious about a follow up to Shadow Chronicles??

Taksraven

Robotech, it's serious business.

[Gubaba]

More brilliance from Robotech.com (not Maverick for once):

Lets give Carl Macek a chance,since he's back lets give him the chance, i mean come on! he did a good job on Sentinels and the Robotech Story,yeah he made a few changes about it but hey look at the bright side he can make a difference in Robotech!! I know Tommy did a good job in Shadow Chronicles and made a few comics but can anyone revive the old Robotech Spirit from back in the day? maybe now that Carl is back and with the new technology lets give him a chance

So, um...the writer thinks we should...give Carl Macek a...chance...? Did I get that right?

Edited March 11, 2010 by Gubaba

[Einherjar]

More brilliance from Robotech.com (not Maverick for once):

Lets give Carl Macek a chance,since he's back lets give him the chance, i mean come on! he did a good job on Sentinels and the Robotech Story,yeah he made a few changes about it but hey look at the bright side he can make a difference in Robotech!! I know Tommy did a good job in Shadow Chronicles and made a few comics but can anyone revive the old Robotech Spirit from back in the day? maybe now that Carl is back and with the new technology lets give him a chance

So, um...the writer thinks we should...give Carl Macek a...chance...? Did I get that right?

I'd LOVE to see the talent of Carl Macek put to the test again without the help of the Japanese or McKinney to prove the same point made years ago. People need to be reminded what Carl Macek really is.

And to answer a question JT once asked, "Does Harmony Gold owe the fans anything?" Yes, yes they do, with 3+ years of interest, since they released an incomplete animated production for the second time and the other franchise they supposedly have control over are clearly not listening to them.

[Seto Kaiba]

Was March 4th the broadcast date of the first episode? Is this milestone really significant? I couldn't really tell, since no one officially in the anime/sci-fi industry even acknowledged it (I'd like to see it if someone did).

So far, it doesn't look like anyone who actually matters bothered to even acknowledge the existence of Robotech on March 4th, let alone bothered to tell the rest of the world about the show's 25th anniversary. Very few fan sites even took notice and did something special for the occasion, with the sole attractions being a brief announcement from the idiot duo over on RobotechX and the "anniversarycast" on JT's Protoculture Times blog. Harmony Gold didn't even bother to put up anything about the anniversary on Robotech.com's front page.

Was there nothing to gain for them to show a little bit of pride or something? But maybe they're going to retcon their own anniversary to a bigger date and venue, like their Comic-Con or Anime Expo panel.

It's certainly possible that they're holding back on some kind of big announcement for one of the bigger conventions, but knowing them there won't be. By all accounts, the only big news this year is Carl Macek's return to Robotech after being fired a decade ago for wasting the company's money on a string of embarrassingly bad projects that all failed long before they could be released. No show of pride in having made their crapshoot franchise last this long. Not even a party for their faithful fans to celebrate the occasion. Just silence and the awkward feeling that they might've finally pushed the fans too far.

Theres no pride to be shown. Harmony Gold knows it, we know it, and most fans of anime know it. Its just the Robotechers that don't realize it.

Give them a little credit, some of them DO know that Harmony Gold has nothing to show for 25 years of ineptitude and failure... they're just too busy being harassed by MEMO and Maverick to crow about it.

Were they ever serious about a follow up to Shadow Chronicles??

Presumably yes... Tommy did announce the existence of a sequel project several months before the announcement of the live-action movie project rolled in and put the kibosh on everything. The VAs insist that they were contracted to do three movies, and that Harmony Gold let them know things were on hiatus fairly swiftly. So presumably at one point it was going to be a serious attempt to keep the ball rolling.

More brilliance from Robotech.com (not Maverick for once):

Lets give Carl Macek a chance,since he's back lets give him the chance, i mean come on! he did a good job on Sentinels and the Robotech Story,yeah he made a few changes about it but hey look at the bright side he can make a difference in Robotech!! I know Tommy did a good job in Shadow Chronicles and made a few comics but can anyone revive the old Robotech Spirit from back in the day? maybe now that Carl is back and with the new technology lets give him a chance

So, um...the writer thinks we should...give Carl Macek a...chance...? Did I get that right?

Wow... issues of grammar and punctuation aside, whoever wrote that needs to ditch the prescription rose-tinted glasses they've been viewing Robotech's history through. What this person is asking for is for us all to give Carl Macek the chance to not royally fart things up like he did on every Robotech sequel he worked on. No, he did not do a good job on Sentinels, he made the Japanese writers throw up their hands and say "fart this poo", then handed care of the script over to a bunch of hamhanded idiots who had only the vaguest clue of how to write sci-fi. No, he did not do a good job on the Robotech story... it's a crummy mess of plot holes and dialogue errors stuck together with copious amounts of all-purpose protoculture-brand plot spackle. For that matter, Tommy did NOT do a good job on Shadow Chronicles either... the animation would've been an embarrassment to any competent studio over a decade ago, and the writing reads like a bad Star Trek-and-Robotech crossover fanfic.

So no, you ignorant buffoon whose post I can't be arsed to find, nobody can revive the "old Robotech spirit from back in the day" because it depended entirely on the audience being completely ignorant of what real anime is. There never was any great golden age of Robotech. It was immediately outshined by Transformers as soon as it came out, and never came even remotely close to being popular or iconic. Bringing Carl Macek back into the creative staff ensures one thing and one thing only... that the next Robotech sequel, whenever it comes, will fail before it ever reaches the hands of the fans.

So, yes, my fellow Macross fans... let's give Carl Macek a chance... a chance to do what Tommy Yune hasn't yet managed to do: run the Robotech franchise the rest of the way into the ground and put it to rest with what little dignity it still has.

[Gubaba]

So no, you ignorant buffoon whose post I can't be arsed to find, nobody can revive the "old Robotech spirit from back in the day" because it depended entirely on the audience being completely ignorant of what real anime is.

To be fair, some of the dripping-with-sarcasm responses to that post are pretty hilarious. For example:

Yeah...

...and I'm real good at doing stories and stuff, like all about Robotech and Zor and the Minmei.

And:

...be nice.

I mean, you should try to be nice and stuff, , I mean, not everyone has the same sense of humor, et al, and if you take the time, you know, to show patience and stuff, and to not pick on the others, then you'll get a tangible result furthering the Robotech and the story and the Zor and the Minmei

Something about putting a definite article in front of Minmay's name just cracks me up.

[Einherjar]

Something about putting a definite article in front of Minmay's name just cracks me up.

Well, she was the mother of us all between billions to twenty years ago.

Forgot that it's 2010 already.

Edited March 11, 2010 by Einherjar

[SIGHUP]

Finally joined in on the fun. Many thanks to all as this thread entertains me so! HG and RT "debating" is fun to read.

Well, the Protoculture Times is doing (or maybe has done by now) a special "anniversarycast", and of course RobotechX had some kind of announcement of the anniversary, but did nothing other than plug the Harmony Gold convention panels. Tho since RTX is basically RT.com Lite, I don't think it counts... particularly since it's run by the Harmony Gold thought police.

Just a quick correction as to what RTX's announcement was all about. While RTX has "plugged" convention panels in the past. If the 25-year anniversary announcement plugged anything, it was JT's The Protoculture Times podcast linky here. This was corrected (sort of) in a later post. As far as RT.com Lite is concerned, well that's another story. . .

So far, it doesn't look like anyone who actually matters bothered to even acknowledge the existence of Robotech on March 4th, let alone bothered to tell the rest of the world about the show's 25th anniversary. Very few fan sites even took notice and did something special for the occasion, with the sole attractions being a brief announcement from the idiot duo over on RobotechX and the "anniversarycast" on JT's Protoculture Times blog. Harmony Gold didn't even bother to put up anything about the anniversary on Robotech.com's front page.

Yes! Right on the money: "So far, it doesn't look like anyone who actually matters bothered to even acknowledge the existence of Robotech on March 4th." Words could have not been truer.

So what do Robotech fans have to look forward in regards to the 25th anniversary of the comatose franchise? Probably not much. If anything my guess is that there will be something at Comic Con 2010. Maybe? Not holding my breath. On this side of the coin its the wait and see game. Should have re-discovered Robotech five years from now instead of 2007. When it will either release another movie or be resting in peace

.

[Saraphys]

Well, she was the mother of us all between billions to twenty years ago.

Forgot that it's 2010 already.

Ah! Measurment by Robotech Protoculture...

Always good for when realism doesn't matter, and you deem your audience to all be idiots...

"The homeworld of the Robotech masters is in the constellation of the Southern Cross"

...

"The Robotech Masters are in another Galaxy"

Yeah...morons...

This is what you get with Macek and Yune...