The Ohnogi Question

[Gubaba]

"If there's a will, there's a way. If there's no will, there are a lot of reasons." He doesn't even have a camera? None of his friends can lend him one? He can't go to an internet cafe with scanning service? Incredulous! I and at least 5 of my close friends have a good enough camera that can act just as good as a scanner does!

Well, that's what he said.

Whether or not I believe it is a different question.

[ntsan]

He don't have camera is pure bullock I think, you have the money for all that things but not even a camera phone! Blah!

For the next new Macross series (probably in 5 years?) there is high chances that he start doing the same B$ again if this is not blown.

[Gubaba]

He don't have camera is pure bullock I think, you have the money for all that things but not even a camera phone! Blah!

For the next new Macross series (probably in 5 years?) there is high chances that he start doing the same B$ again if this is not blown.

It IS blown.

No one (well, very few people) at AnimeSuki or here at MacrossWorld believes his words anymore. Some people at Macross Generation already have doubts, and are just waiting for his response.

He's been away from his own site for almost two weeks now. Judging from how often he posts there, I don't think he's ever been away for that long before. But he's still logging on to Youtube, so it's not like he lost his internet connection or anything.

I just sent him another email, urging him to come clean. That makes three emails and one PM over the last two or three weeks, and still no response.

Hell, if someone wants to help me translate my essay into good Spanish, I'll post it over there. Most of the people there are naturally Macross fans first and Shaloom fans second. Once they see all the evidence, they'll understand where I'm coming from.

[dreamweaver13]

Hell, if someone wants to help me translate my essay into good Spanish, I'll post it over there. Most of the people there are naturally Macross fans first and Shaloom fans second. Once they see all the evidence, they'll understand where I'm coming from.

why don't you just post there in english? seems like they can translate it easily anyway.

[-Snowblind-]

why don't you just post there in english? seems like they can translate it easily anyway.

Under the circumstances, it may be best to post in both English, and a well translated Spanish version. Misinterpretation or miscommunication could just lead to more problems. O.o

[Gubaba]

Under the circumstances, it may be best to post in both English, and a well translated Spanish version. Misinterpretation or miscommunication could just lead to more problems. O.o

I agree. If we used Google translation for the bulk of it, and then two or three of the Spanish speakers here would be willing to through it and fix it up, I'd be really grateful.

Either that, or I could try to do my best, and PM it to some people here, who could offer suggestions.

I dunno. If anyone wants to volunteer, they'll have my thanks.

[Gubaba]

Okay...looking at Macross Generation, it looks like someone signed up under the name of "Proxy," made a few posts to get into the locked forum area, and then posted a note about how the information there is blatantly false, so please delete their account.

If it was someone from here, I'm not sure you're helping...

Most of the site is fine. Most of the people on it are fine. I'm sure everyone there is looking at Proxy as "Gubaba's little pal" or something.

Shaloom will turn up eventually, there's not much we can do except wait.

And send him emails.

[Lindem Herz]

Hell, if someone wants to help me translate my essay into good Spanish, I'll post it over there. Most of the people there are naturally Macross fans first and Shaloom fans second. Once they see all the evidence, they'll understand where I'm coming from.

I volunteer for that. I'm a native Spanish speaker and an English Creative Writing major with a knack for semantics, so even though I'm no professional translator I guess I can do a pretty decent job (that, and that since I'm on my summer break I have time to spare). If you want me to, I think I can have a draft ready for tomorrow night or Tuesday morning so the rest of the Spanish speaking MWers can go over it and give it the seal of approval.

Edited June 22, 2009 by Lindem Herz

[mike_s_6]

"Well I was reviewing the credits of the episode ...

I thought I'd run through the ED and collate the credits, and it's in the pic below. Of course Ohnogi (大野木 寛) isn't in it. Then I just realized it might be in the OP, but I couldn't make decent screenshots of that one since there's too much movement, but looks like he isn't there either.

[Gubaba]

I volunteer for that. I'm a native Spanish speaker and an English Creative Writing major with a knack for semantics, so even though I'm no professional translator I guess I can do a pretty decent job (that, and that since I'm on my summer break I have time to spare). If you want me to, I think I can have a draft ready for tomorrow night or Tuesday morning so the rest of the Spanish speaking MWers can go over it and give it the seal of approval.

Very cool! Thank you!

I thought I'd run through the ED and collate the credits, and it's in the pic below. Of course Ohnogi (大野木 寛) isn't in it. Then I just realized it might be in the OP, but I couldn't make decent screenshots of that one since there's too much movement, but looks like he isn't there either.

And the only part you really need to know is this (second-to-last pic):

SCRIPT: Yoshino Hiroyuki

STORYBOARDS: Fukuda [something]

[mike_s_6]

And the only part you really need to know is this (second-to-last pic):

SCRIPT: Yoshino Hiroyuki

Aha, they have one kanji in similarity!

[Mr March]

Nah, I'm only getting upset BECAUSE it's taking time away from my real translations. But I spent this morning working banging out the subs for SDFM Episode 14, and I'll start 15 later on today. Add a few pages of "My Fair Minmay" in there, and I'll be right as rain.

And some of the stuff I had to translate for this Shaloom business (like the Kawamori Commentary) was stuff I was going to do anyway. I'm just doing it a couple of years sooner than I otherwise would've.

And really, I'm more frustrated at myself than at anyone else. A clear answer was RIGHT THERE in the Macross Generation thread for episode 18, and yet somehow I failed to find it until yesterday.

And I don't think everyone's ignoring me over there...I think they're waiting for Shaloom to come in with pics of Studio Nue Entertainment Bible Vol. 15 or an mp3 of Bobby interviewing Ohnogi, and then I'll be proven wrong and it'll all be over.

I never said everyone at Macross Generation was ignoring you. I said from your description of the situation on the forums (read: Shaloom hasn't replied to your PMs or responded to your posts, despite being online elsewhere) that you are being ignored in the hopes the topic goes away. I suppose the ultimate test is to look at Shaloom's past activity on MG (ie, how often does he post). If he posted nearly every day for the last month and now hasn't responded in almost two weeks, you obviously know the answer.

[Phyrox]

Give this Shaloom guy time...it takes a while to fabricate faux covers of 20 year-old art books and create type-set kanji for semi-official novels, not to mention the trip to kinkos to get them all scanned.

[dreamweaver13]

Give this Shaloom guy time...it takes a while to fabricate faux covers of 20 year-old art books and create type-set kanji for semi-official novels, not to mention the trip to kinkos to get them all scanned.

like i said before, i wouldn't be surprised.

[VFTF1]

Speaking of hoaxes, I've been thinking recently - look at the name "Kawamori." Now - spell it backwards: "I rom awak."

Now - seemingly I rom awak means nothing - but - those of you who are Star Trek fans should recognize that it is Romulan for "Tricked you like a Tarlak Lizard Tricks a Zamborian leanpol worm in heat. Ha ha."

It's the line that the Romulan Commander uses when addressing the Federation in episode 13 "Stuck in a Vice."

I just realized that now.

So - judging by this, it would appear to me that "Shoji Kawamori" doesn't exist - or at least his last name doesn't.

Now - this leaves us with "Shoji."

Again - spell it backwards: I johs.

Johs - Josh - to Josh around - aka to joke/kid.

It all makes sense now.

But then the real question is... who is really behind Macross?

Pete

[Ginrai]

But then the real question is... who is really behind Macross?

Eiji Kurokawa!

[dreamweaver13]

But then the real question is... who is really behind Macross?

Protoculture!!

[Gubaba]

Eiji Kurokawa!

:lol: :lol:

You deserve a crate of Yoshinol for this answer.

[Zinjo]

... even Zinjo saying that he had heard that Ohnogi had declined to have his name in the credits.

Did I really say that?

I honestly don't remember.

Though if I had, it likely came from the same source that first led me to believe Ohnogi worked on the series...

[Zinjo]

Protoculture!!

Pfft! Duh!

Everyone knows that...

[Gubaba]

Did I really say that?

I honestly don't remember.

Though if I had, it likely came from the same source that first led me to believe Ohnogi worked on the series...

At least, that's what I thought you meant by "Ghost Writer"...

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?...mp;#entry752334

And no, Shaloom seems to have always insisted that Ohnogi was the credited writer of the last clutch of episodes.

[Gubaba]

It seems things are moving apace at Macross Generation. Shaloom has been avoiding the forum for nearly two weeks now, but still frequenting other sites. He hasn't even responded to the other mods' emails. They've started a new topic to address the issue.

He must know that he's only increasing suspicions and doubts...which should lessen any hostility I might face over there.

Anyway, I posted that I think Macross Generation is a fantastic site (and it is), and that I'm happy to wait for Shaloom.

It won't stop me posting my essay over there, but he can take as long as he wants to respond to it. I don't mind.

[mike_s_6]

They've started a new topic to address the issue.

And interestingly, it's pinned. Looks like he is also online in twitter...

[magnuskn]

And interestingly, it's pinned. Looks like he is also online in twitter...

... although his Twitter posts are protected, so I at least cannot look at them.

Anyway, they are calling him out on Macross Generation and other admins are distancing themselves from him already. At the moment it is "presument innocent until proven guilty", but since he hasn´t shown his face over there for two weeks and is still active elsewhere...

[mike_s_6]

... although his Twitter posts are protected, so I at least cannot look at them.

Anyway, they are calling him out on Macross Generation and other admins are distancing themselves from him already. At the moment it is "presument innocent until proven guilty", but since he hasn´t shown his face over there for two weeks and is still active elsewhere...

I think "innocent until proven guilty" applies only to people who are willing to defend themselves. For now, all hard evidence points towards his guilt, so now it's more like, "innocent until he talks". Then if that's the case, if he never talks, then he's innocent forever, isn't it?

[polidread]

i hope we arent enjoying this shaloom shindig shakedown too much

[josue]

Well IT IS the only topic to talk about until the movie comes around.

[Gubaba]

i hope we arent enjoying this shaloom shindig shakedown too much

I can't speak for other people, but I'm certainly not.

On the one hand, I searched for this stuff for months, I bought books and magazines I wouldn't otherwise have spent money on, just because he said there was material that I wanted that was in them. I translated (and am still translating) a bunch of stuff I wouldn't ordinarily care too much about, just to get evidence.

I have wasted a lot of time trying to find stuff that didn't exist, and then wasted more time gathering evidence against Shaloom. Yes, it was all of my own free will, but bishopcruz and I saw a mess that needed cleaning up. Luckily, others thought it was worth cleaning up as well, and have lightened the burden considerably.

So personally, I get a great deal of satisfaction out of seeing the fruits of our labor. Even in the world of the internet, reliable information about Macross (and yes, I know it's just a cartoon) is difficult to come by, and someone who is delieberately trying to muddy the waters should be called to account.

But...

Someone there sent me a rundown of the history of Macross Generation. Shaloom started it, gathered the staff, and turned it into THE Spanish-language forum for Macross.

He really is a hero to many of the members there, and the idea that he deceived them is a particularly nasty blow.

So for the forum and its members, I feel like a total shit.

[josue]

I can't speak for other people, but I'm certainly not.

On the one hand, I searched for this stuff for months, I bought books and magazines I wouldn't otherwise have spent money on, just because he said there was material that I wanted that was in them. I translated (and am still translating) a bunch of stuff I wouldn't ordinarily care too much about, just to get evidence.

I have wasted a lot of time trying to find stuff that didn't exist, and then wasted more time gathering evidence against Shaloom. Yes, it was all of my own free will, but bishopcruz and I saw a mess that needed cleaning up. Luckily, others thought it was worth cleaning up as well, and have lightened the burden considerably.

So personally, I get a great deal of satisfaction out of seeing the fruits of our labor. Even in the world of the internet, reliable information about Macross (and yes, I know it's just a cartoon) is difficult to come by, and someone who is delieberately trying to muddy the waters should be called to account.

And we all thank you for your hard work. I wouldn't like to upset you but for me It's like a long running soap opera. We know the end but still we watch and react.

But...

Someone there sent me a rundown of the history of Macross Generation. Shaloom started it, gathered the staff, and turned it into THE Spanish-language forum for Macross.

He really is a hero to many of the members there, and the idea that he deceived them is a particularly nasty blow.

So for the forum and its members, I feel like a total shit.

Don't feel bad. NOT YOUR FAULT if somebody wanted to be an a#$"#

Cheer up man! Just 2 weeks before the concert!

[dreamweaver13]

He really is a hero to many of the members there, and the idea that he deceived them is a particularly nasty blow.

So for the forum and its members, I feel like a total shit.

Don't feel bad, dorothy. he wasn't really a wizard anyway.

as i said, it should never be seen as an attack against MG; but that's easy for me to say, since i'm not the one who went Morpheus on them and showed them the matrix. anyway, cheer up. you and bishopcruz did the entire macross-loving community a service, and i'm sure the MG members will realize it soon enough.

[Gubaba]

Don't feel bad. NOT YOUR FAULT if somebody wanted to be an a#$"#

Cheer up man! Just 2 weeks before the concert!

Don't feel bad, dorothy. he wasn't really a wizard anyway.

as i said, it should never be seen as an attack against MG; but that's easy for me to say, since i'm not the one who went Morpheus on them and showed them the matrix. anyway, cheer up. you and bishopcruz did the entire macross-loving community a service, and i'm sure the MG members will realize it soon enough.

Oh believe me, I know.

But being here at MacrossWorld, and debunking Shaloom is one thing. It's all relatively distant from most of the members here. Going to AnimeSuki, where nearly everyone really believed his "information," was rather different. But after a period of adjustment, everyone kind of got on with their Macross-loving ways.

Going to the guy's own forum and calling him out has been something of a shock for me. I've been feeling like Shaloom's sparring partner for a while now, admiring his inventiveness and his cleverness at knowing pretty much exactly which sources to cite, knowing that very few people have access to them (when he didn't invent them outright, that is). But to find a large group of people who really admire him and relied on him for exclusives (and apparently it's not limited to Frontier...he did similar stuff for Macross Zero, including supposedly interviewing Kawamori himself. I have my doubts, but who knows? It could be true), it's pretty disheartening to see how much damage one man's desire to be the Master of Macross can cause.

Thankfully, Shaloom's silence has made the pill a little easier to swallow for everyone, as I think they were expecting him to come out, guns a-blazing, to put me in my place. Instead, he's hanging out in the Veteran's Clan Forums, resolutely not visiting Macross Generation at all, and that's pissing a lot of people off.

[-Snowblind-]

He really is a hero to many of the members there, and the idea that he deceived them is a particularly nasty blow.

So for the forum and its members, I feel like a total shit.

I wouldn't feel too bad. It may be rough over there (or they may get over it quicker than you think), but either way, you've done them a favour. It is a good forum, but it's reputation would have been hurt if it continued to be a source of misinformation.

In the long run, their reputation remains good, and they're a a good source of Macross information for the Spanish speaking world.

[iker]

Hi folks i'm the other administrator/owner of macrossgeneration

like i have told Gubaba shaloom took the coward's way and cut all ties with our site no answer via phone/IM/mail/etc.

This is a low blow for me and bauhaus45 (the other admin/owner) because he was also our friend

we also try to restraint him to the forum and that's the reason we dont have a episode review in the site, since we couldn't found any proof online and he never show any book, file, or photo.

This is a big hit for our site? Yes, but i like to think we can put this "incident" behind asap or at least until.... shaloom linear notes for the movie (j/k)

So if any of you have any doubt, comment or something go ahead i will be around.

.. although his Twitter posts are protected, so I at least cannot look at them.

until today, the *erk must have read the post.

so now it's more like, "innocent until he talks". Then if that's the case, if he never talks, then he's innocent forever, isn't it?

I want to think (in this case) "Gulty until proven innocent"

i hope we arent enjoying this shaloom shindig shakedown too much

Well the user in me is really enjoying this show, the owner/admin is really piss off (it's 1 30 am here and i'm doing damage controll because my "pal" is a liar)

So personally, I get a great deal of satisfaction out of seeing the fruits of our labor. Even in the world of the internet, reliable information about Macross (and yes, I know it's just a cartoon) is difficult to come by, and someone who is delieberately trying to muddy the waters should be called to account.

And i want to tank you for all your labor and purge the plague in our site.

He really is a hero to many of the members there

And for me this is the most harmful thing, he betrayed a lot of people confidence and a lot of users refuse to believe me

[Graham]

Thank you for posting some clarification iker. It is much appreciated.

Graham

[Gubaba]

Hi folks i'm the other administrator/owner of macrossgeneration

like i have told Gubaba shaloom took the coward's way and cut all ties with our site no answer via phone/IM/mail/etc.

This is a low blow for me and bauhaus45 (the other admin/owner) because he was also our friend

we also try to restraint him to the forum and that's the reason we dont have a episode review in the site, since we couldn't found any proof online and he never show any book, file, or photo.

This is a big hit for our site? Yes, but i like to think we can put this "incident" behind asap or at least until.... shaloom linear notes for the movie (j/k)

So if any of you have any doubt, comment or something go ahead i will be around.

until today, the *erk must have read the post.

I want to think (in this case) "Gulty until proven innocent"

Well the user in me is really enjoying this show, the owner/admin is really piss off (it's 1 30 am here and i'm doing damage controll because my "pal" is a liar)

And i want to tank you for all your labor and purge the plague in our site.

And for me this is the most harmful thing, he betrayed a lot of people confidence and a lot of users refuse to believe me

I thank you, too.

I'm still planning to post the rest of my essay (with added information, more detail, and 27 8x10 color glossy photos with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what it's for...um, I mean, jpgs illustrating who wrote what for SDF Macross and for Frontier, as well as a list of all the Bandai Entertainment Bibles). Although if you rather I didn't, that's fine, too.

Thanks for supporting those of us who did the research, and thanks for communicating! (unlike SOME people I could mention... )

You have a great site with great members, and you should be very proud of it.

(By the way...Graham, Iker...since I've got both of you here now...would it be possible for US to get that Minmay Doll smiley that's at Macross Generation? I've fallen in love with that thing!)