Renato Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 (edited) I just came back from Macross Generation to see the reaction over there. Doesn't look to me like those forums are as active as these, but never mind. I found something slightly odd. Gracias. Espero que me puedan entender: http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=30224 http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php...223#post2451223 La información sobre Ohnogi no es cierto. Esta entrevista es falsa. Las novelas del Ohnogi no existen. Ohnogi no escribió los episodios #18~24 del Frontier. Lo siento. Es un gran error. sad.gif (Si, yo soy "Gubaba" del Macrossworld.) This is a post in the Mac Frontier thread there. Basically, "the info on Ohnogi is not true", "the novels don't exist", etc. But the last line is "(Yes, I am 'Gubaba' from Macrossworld)". .... Yet, this post was written by none other than Edward Elric, or エドワード・エルリック as he chooses to type it, which is also the name of a poster recently active here, too. So... that's not Gubaba, unless Gubaba got in touch with him and allowed him to post on his behalf. In which case, he should have said so explicitly. Or maybe he cannot speak Spanish and his translation got mixed up to mean "I am.."? I can't think of any reason why he would want to pose as Gubaba, but I would just like to get it out there that I found this quite strange. (EDIT -- OK, I can think of one. It is pretty obvious, but I just realised. Maybe I'm too naive. Anyway, I hope this is not the case.) Lastly, another round of appreciation for Gubaba and his exploits! I think the revelation that Shaloom got the bare bones of the interview not from the source but from Kresphy's summary and then injected bogus content is just genius. Arthur Conan Doyle would be proud. Edited June 15, 2009 by Renato Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mxhz Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 WOW... i just read all 7 pages from this topic today. As far as I read there´s nothing that make me think Shaloom´s "Liner Notes" could be confirmed as real. As a fan of Macross, and MacrossGeneration forum reader I have been reading all Liner Notes since the first fan subs from FrontalWeb, i would not deny I was wainting for the chapter 25 ones. I really get convinced about the facts told in that forum. I always try to get true facts about info I get, but about Macross and the reputation of Shaloom through the time in the forum make me believe on his info, also with the fact I dont know Japanese to research the true. I dont came here because I feel more comfortable in Latin Forums, sorry...jeje. Also I can tell that full "Liner Notes" didnt came after the ending of MF, there were always comments related to this in every chapter opinion by Shaloom, since the first one, and after the release of the FrontalWeb Sub the "Liner Notes" where written. As a fan I really enjoyed the "Liner Notes" because i thought they were real, now.... i dont know what to think. I will really want to see how this end, is really difficult to think how a fan would want to damage the franchise, lets wait for the conclusion and words from Shaloom. CYA (Hope u get my ideas with my non practiced english...jeje) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted June 15, 2009 Author Share Posted June 15, 2009 I just came back from Macross Generation to see the reaction over there. Doesn't look to me like those forums are as active as these, but never mind. I found something slightly odd. This is a post in the Mac Frontier thread there. Basically, "the info on Ohnogi is not true", "the novels don't exist", etc. But the last line is "(Yes, I am 'Gubaba' from Macrossworld)". .... Yet, this post was written by none other than Edward Elric, or エドワード・エルリック as he chooses to type it, which is also the name of a poster recently active here, too. So... that's not Gubaba, unless Gubaba got in touch with him and allowed him to post on his behalf. In which case, he should have said so explicitly. Or maybe he cannot speak Spanish and his translation got mixed up to mean "I am.."? I can't think of any reason why he would want to pose as Gubaba, but I would just like to get it out there that I found this quite strange. Lastly, another round of appreciation for Gubaba and his exploits! I think the revelation that Shaloom got the bare bones of the interview not from the source but from Kresphy's summary and then injected bogus content is just genius. Arthur Conan Doyle would be proud. No, it's me. I got annoyed at the "Edward Elric" over here, since he was clearly just a troll, so I took the same name when I joined up at Macross Generation. I hope my Spanish was comprehensible... And yes, I'm betting that Shaloom never saw the entire Famitsu interview. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mxhz Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 (edited) No, it's me. I got annoyed at the "Edward Elric" over here, since he was clearly just a troll, so I took the same name when I joined up at Macross Generation. I hope my Spanish was comprehensible... And yes, I'm betting that Shaloom never saw the entire Famitsu interview. At least I undestand what u wrote... then I came here to read the whole story... want to know the end of this story. Also another comment to clarify something, the reason Shaloom give for different subs is that some translators change the subs from English subs to Spanish, and Shaloom sub team make the translation direct from Japanese to Spanish, so then.. they adapt some phrases to be fully understand in Spanish, he took the time to explain why they change some phrases, so that could be get out of the discussion, at least I think so. Edited June 15, 2009 by mxhz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeX-kun Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 No, it's me. I got annoyed at the "Edward Elric" over here, since he was clearly just a troll, so I took the same name when I joined up at Macross Generation. I hope my Spanish was comprehensible... And yes, I'm betting that Shaloom never saw the entire Famitsu interview. From what I read in your post at Macross Generation, everything is perfectly fine Gubaba The only thing is that you're speaking in fragments but everything is grammatically correct and it's not a problem considering you don't speak Spanish. It's easily comprehensible. Although I think you should have taken a firm stance rather than apologize at the end with a sad smiley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted June 15, 2009 Author Share Posted June 15, 2009 At least I undestand what u wrote... then I came here to read the whole story... want to know the end of this story. Also another comment to clarify something, the reason Shaloom give for different subs is that some translators change the subs from English subs to Spanish, and Shaloom sub team make the translation direct from Japanese to Spanish, so then.. they adapt some phrases to be fully understand in Spanish, he took the time to explain why they change some phrases, so that could be get out of the discussion, at least I think so. I also want to know the end. First, I think Shaloom should apologize. I wish he would pay me the $21.50 (plus shipping) I spent for the Studio Nue Entertainment Bibles (when I bought the books, I still believed him), but I know that will not happen. From what I read in your post at Macross Generation, everything is perfectly fine Gubaba The only thing is that you're speaking in fragments but everything is grammatically correct and it's not a problem considering you don't speak Spanish. It's easily comprehensible. Although I think you should have taken a firm stance rather than apologize at the end with a sad smiley I feel bad for the forum members. They took it all in good faith, and it turned out not to be true. Kinda sucks, don't you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeX-kun Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 (edited) I feel bad for the forum members. They took it all in good faith, and it turned out not to be true. Kinda sucks, don't you think? Yeah, you do have a point there I guess I'm a much stricter person when it comes to something like this. I think we'll need to give most of their members some time to swallow this because it is a pretty big pill. I imagine that there are people there that have been spoon fed plenty of info by him over the years and trust him. I'm sure that most of the members will come around but there will always be people trying to defend him, that's inevitable. Edited June 15, 2009 by DeX-kun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mxhz Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 (edited) I also want to know the end. First, I think Shaloom should apologize. I wish he would pay me the $21.50 (plus shipping) I spent for the Studio Nue Entertainment Bibles (when I bought the books, I still believed him), but I know that will not happen. I feel bad for the forum members. They took it all in good faith, and it turned out not to be true. Kinda sucks, don't you think? Sucks... true, at least at this moment. Also there's no reason to feel bad, everyone needs to do his own research. Edited June 15, 2009 by mxhz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renato Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 No, it's me. I got annoyed at the "Edward Elric" over here, since he was clearly just a troll, so I took the same name when I joined up at Macross Generation. I hope my Spanish was comprehensible... And yes, I'm betting that Shaloom never saw the entire Famitsu interview. OK... I see. Still, I think it would've been better to have just used your MW handle and avoided further confusion. I have no idea how this forum would have reacted if it turned out that this Elric character was trying to take credit for all your hard work. There would have been pandemonium; Macross World vs Macross Generation; cats and dogs, living together! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zinjo Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Did Kawamori really make that remark? The Yoshino interview seems to indicate that the unresolved love triangle was all his (Yoshino's) doing, and that Kawamori was against it initially. Well of course Kawamori was against it. His initial outline only had Sheryl as an inspirational character for Ranka. Sheryl was supposed to be gone very early in the series, but that was changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted June 15, 2009 Author Share Posted June 15, 2009 OK... I see. Still, I think it would've been better to have just used your MW handle and avoided further confusion. I have no idea how this forum would have reacted if it turned out that this Elric character was trying to take credit for all your hard work. There would have been pandemonium; Macross World vs Macross Generation; cats and dogs, living together! Hmm...good point. My only problem was that I have joined up at Macross Generation twice before, but never posted anything, and they remove you after a while if you do that. I'd already used "Gubaba" and "Yot-chan," and I wasn't sure I could use them again. Besides, I thought it was kind of poetic..."Edward Elric" here joined up solely to say that Ohnogi worked on Frontier, I joined up there solely to say that he didn't. That said, I really, REALLY don't want a site war, and I think everyone can agree with me on that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted June 15, 2009 Author Share Posted June 15, 2009 Well of course Kawamori was against it. His initial outline only had Sheryl as an inspirational character for Ranka. Sheryl was supposed to be gone very early in the series, but that was changed. See, everyone keeps saying that, and I don't know where that info comes from. It doesn't seem to be in the Official Fan Book, 2059: Memories, or the DVD Liner Notes. Do you have a source? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zinjo Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 See, everyone keeps saying that, and I don't know where that info comes from. It doesn't seem to be in the Official Fan Book, 2059: Memories, or the DVD Liner Notes. Do you have a source? Honestly, it was somewhere on these boards way back when, but I'll be damned if I can remember where. So many threads..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zinjo Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Yeah, I think it's quite interesting as an example of mirrors reflecting mirrors. Some fans detail the problems they have with Frontier, someone creates a false "official" interview telling those fans that they're absolutely right, and the fans use that interview as proof that they were right. In other news, apparently "Ohnogi" also "wrote" a story that tells the story of the Megaroad-01, called "Delta War": http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=e...en%26safe%3Doff This information comes EXCLUSIVELY from Shaloom of Macross Generation! LOL! Shaloom got the "Delta War" from Isamu Dyson's profile on Mac Plus! It was one of the conflicts he was in during his service history before being assigned to New Edwards base. I've got the screencap somewhere on my hard drive... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted June 15, 2009 Author Share Posted June 15, 2009 Honestly, it was somewhere on these boards way back when, but I'll be damned if I can remember where. So many threads..... I *think* I know what you're talking about...Tak referred to it at AnimeSuki a couple weeks ago if I'm not mistaken... LOL! Shaloom got the "Delta War" from Isamu Dyson's profile on Mac Plus! It was one of the conflicts he was in during his service history before being assigned to New Edwards base. I've got the screencap somewhere on my hard drive... Crap in a hat! Does that mean that the Megaroad-01 was also involved in the Planet Hydra Incident and the Planet Avemaria Dispute as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercurial Morpheus Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 See, everyone keeps saying that, and I don't know where that info comes from. It doesn't seem to be in the Official Fan Book, 2059: Memories, or the DVD Liner Notes. Do you have a source? Yeah, that's something I'd heard about waaaay back when. It sort of made sense to me given the feel I had for the character early on and the fact they couldn't decide how to do the pilot. I've always wanted to know more about it, cause Sheryl always felt a little off in some of the beginning, particularly towards Alto (though that's probably partly due to any distractions I had while watching those episodes, hindsight tends to fix things). It's sort of like your bit on Minmay's origins. I know a lot of people weren't aware of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted June 15, 2009 Author Share Posted June 15, 2009 I *think* I know what you're talking about...Tak referred to it at AnimeSuki a couple weeks ago if I'm not mistaken... Okay...I think I may have found it. Was it this? http://www.presepe.jp/m44/sp/id/BeWkJEnOCYY=/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercurial Morpheus Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Whoa, blond Cathy. Trippy. What scene is that in from Macross Plus. I've got episode one cued up for a screenshot, but haven't spotted it yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted June 15, 2009 Author Share Posted June 15, 2009 Whoa, blond Cathy. Trippy. What scene is that in from Macross Plus. I've got episode one cued up for a screenshot, but haven't spotted it yet. It was when Guld is snooping on Isamu's info...for a brief moment, you see the computer screen, and it gives his military history, as well as personal info (I think his special skill was "girl hunt"). It's either in episode one or two...I think one, but I'm not sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zinjo Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 I have always gotten pretty annoyed, though, at this nebulous perception here on MW that fans on AS are somehow inferior in quality than the ones here. Ah, well. Elitism even in the fandom itself, I guess. Dude, elitism in fandom has been around forever! As for the Sheryl and Ranka issue. I notice, "generally speaking" Western fans gravitate toward Sheryl and Asian fans "generally" gravitate toward Ranka. I suspect its a sign of good writing when fans tend to identify with characters they recognize the most. Sheryl was portrayed as very much a Western diva and Ranka as a hard working asian girl with dreams of "idolhood" (is that a word?). Neither side is right or wrong and Kawamori probably felt it best to not take sides and simply create a "new" enigma for the fans to chew over for the next several years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted June 15, 2009 Author Share Posted June 15, 2009 Whoa, blond Cathy. Trippy. What scene is that in from Macross Plus. I've got episode one cued up for a screenshot, but haven't spotted it yet. Found it. No screen shot, but here's the info: http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=26483 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercurial Morpheus Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 So did I. Here's the screenshot. Though the "W" looks like "M". Rather amusing that there's a legitimate phone number outside of the area code. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_s_6 Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 (edited) Dude, elitism in fandom has been around forever! As for the Sheryl and Ranka issue. I notice, "generally speaking" Western fans gravitate toward Sheryl and Asian fans "generally" gravitate toward Ranka. Well... I'm Asian and I like Sheryl more, and so do many of my friends who are also Asians - I actually asked them. Might I add, these friends of mine hate Ranka, except one guy, who said he thought Ranka became cute towards the end. I also go around a Chinese forum and they're mostly for Sheryl too. I'm not sure which batch of fans actually are "generally for" Ranka, except perhaps the Japanese, but they seem to have dropped her in favor of Sheryl recently. Edited June 15, 2009 by mike_s_6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercurial Morpheus Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 So is the situation generally the start of this then? http://revver.com/video/1567340/naruto-the...of-series-show/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zinjo Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Well... I'm Asian and I like Sheryl more, and so do many of my friends who are also Asians - I actually asked them. Might I add, these friends of mine hate Ranka, except one guy, who said he thought Ranka became cute towards the end. I also go around a Chinese forum and they're mostly for Sheryl too. I'm not sure which batch of fans actually are "generally for" Ranka, except perhaps the Japanese, but they seem to have dropped her in favor of Sheryl recently. Entirely possible. That is why my comment was a "generality". Specific examples can easily be different. I could have used the term "Japanese", but no doubt a Japanese fan would have posted, "Well I'm Japanese and I like Sheryl..." It's inevitable when being non-specific. Your comment does go to my ultimate point that this is another enigma that Kawamori has thrown out there to make fans talk about the series long after its over. I have no doubt the same happend after the end of Mac 7, with one camp thinking Gamilin should have gotten Mylene and another camps thinking Basara should have gotten her. It's all good franchise marketing, IMO... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted June 15, 2009 Author Share Posted June 15, 2009 Entirely possible. That is why my comment was a "generality". Specific examples can easily be different. I could have used the term "Japanese", but no doubt a Japanese fan would have posted, "Well I'm Japanese and I like Sheryl..." It's inevitable when being non-specific. Your comment does go to my ultimate point that this is another enigma that Kawamori has thrown out there to make fans talk about the series long after its over. I have no doubt the same happend after the end of Mac 7, with one camp thinking Gamilin should have gotten Mylene and another camps thinking Basara should have gotten her. It's all good franchise marketing, IMO... Thank goodness NO ONE thought Shin should've ended up with Mao... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercurial Morpheus Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 But the underwater kiss should have sealed it Besides, does anyone really like Shin enough to care? It is good marketing, but it fit Alto rather perfectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Robot Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 If the fanart that lands on Danbooru means anything, a lot of Japanese fans have gravitated to Sheryl and Alto in the months since the show stopped airing. You know, like Sheryl myself and can think of reasons she'd be a better match, but when it comes to it I don't hate Ranka and I don't get why people think it had to end with one girl in Alto's arms and that what we got was somehow cheating. It's just weird, and the more I see it the harder it is to imagine another ending, unless Frontier somehow got a second story arc SDFM-style, where the love triangle could develop further without a galaxy-threatening war looming constantly overhead. And doubly weird, seeing people go through something so elaborate to play up the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 And just what's wrong with polygamy anyway. If it was legal, I'd be up for it! Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercurial Morpheus Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 (edited) Personally, while they did play up the Sheryl/Alto side to near plausible conclusions, Alto's character just dictated an inconclusive ending, and I was pretty certain it was going to be either Sheryl or no one at the end barring some huge development with Ranka. He felt strictly platonic to me. That and the whole triangle was out of wack with the inclusion of shy character next to indecisive character. In order for shy character to work, she must become unshy or indecisive should be actively pursuing shy. In Frontier, we basically got two girls after one oblivious male with varying degrees of aggression. So I agree that some work would need to be done to justify changing the ending. The existence of it sort of blew the whole Ohnogi thing apart itself, as I can't buy the depiction of him letting Kawamori ruin the strides he supposedly had made. I also wouldn't put too much into Danbooru outside of being the microcosm it is. All it suggests is that it'scontributers gravitate more to SherylxAlto art. I remember one time Ranka actually beating Sheryl in number of pics. So it's a fickle beast. It's popular though, there's no doubt there. Edited June 15, 2009 by Mercurial Morpheus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulendil Ang Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 And just what's wrong with polygamy anyway. If it was legal, I'd be up for it! Graham Ask any woman about it, and you would get the answer. Back on topic, I'm glad we finally solve this mystery. Kudos to Gubaba for his hard work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHX Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Personally, while they did play up the Sheryl/Alto side to near plausible conclusions, Alto's character just dictated an inconclusive ending, and I was pretty certain it was going to be either Sheryl or no one at the end barring some huge development with Ranka. He felt strictly platonic to me. WRONG!!! you know it's gonna end up Sheryl/Ranka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercurial Morpheus Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 (edited) Man I hated that scene in the trailer. Though I wouldn't have too much of a problem with that one, outside of the whole birthday thing. Can Nanase join in for the Ranka side? She needs more painting inspiration. Edited June 15, 2009 by Mercurial Morpheus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnuskn Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 At least I undestand what u wrote... then I came here to read the whole story... want to know the end of this story. Also another comment to clarify something, the reason Shaloom give for different subs is that some translators change the subs from English subs to Spanish, and Shaloom sub team make the translation direct from Japanese to Spanish, so then.. they adapt some phrases to be fully understand in Spanish, he took the time to explain why they change some phrases, so that could be get out of the discussion, at least I think so. Actually, I made a note of the difference between the translations, because fansubbers like gg_subs said they are worked from the closed captioning script. You can imagine my confusion when Shaloom claimed that he was getting stuff from the official site ( like him saying that the official name for Klan Klein is "Kuran Kuran" ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercurial Morpheus Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Can you remember any specific example of how off they were? I'm curious. As the explanation is mildly plausible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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