Seto Kaiba Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 (edited) Ozma's VF-25S has a red sensor in the forehead just like the VF-2SS. For one, no source I'm aware of calls that a sensor on either aircraft. For two, that isn't exactly unique... every Gundam since the original has had a big red plate above the eyes, and it's not exactly uncommon outside of Gundam either. There are a literally hundreds of different mecha that particular cosmetic touch could have come from. You don't even have to go outside of Macross to find examples... just look at the Cheyenne I. The forearms (and a bit of the arms) design is strikingly similar too. Also, the stripe pattern in the upper part of both torsos looks the same. That little indentation on the inside of the forearm is about the only link you're inferring between the VF-25 and VF-2SS that can't be disproved by simple examination. The design upper arms is not the same. Nor is the stripe pattern. A very similar paint pattern can be found on the YF-19, and several other VFs. It didn't necessarily come from the VF-2SS. The VF-2SS with Super Armed Pack has some armor patterns identical to some patterns in the Full Armor VF-25S. The patterns you pointed to on the VF-25S Armored Messiah's forearm shield and stabilizers are nowhere near the same thing... on the VF-25 they're essentially flat cosmetic patterns in the armor plate... on the VF-2SS they're not cosmetic at all... they're raised at least several inches, because they're swing-out doors for mini-missile launchers. Btw... The Cheyenne destroids (I & II) also have some Mac II Tomahawk in them... Like having a red plate above the eyes, having wheels in the feet of a mecha is hardly a unique trait... Macross II was one of the earlier examples, but by no means the only one. The Armor Shrikes in Blue Gender had feet set up similarly to the Cheyenne I, and the show coincidentally completed its run right around the time work started on Macross Zero. The similarity I'm surprised you missed is what's hanging underneath the Cheyenne I and Cheyenne II's gatling cannons... the shape of the magazine feeding the gatling cannon gives the arms a profile very similar to that of the Tomahawk II. The difference being that those aren't magazines on the Tomahawk II, they're railguns. It's pointless trying to find Macross II references in Frontier. Sure, Kawamori swiped some of the soundtrack for Macross 7, but that's about the extent of it. He's made it clear on a number of occasions that he really couldn't give a tinker's damn about Macross II. It's kind of like the Robotech fans who were convinced that Battlestar Galactica was crammed full of Robotech homages... imagining links that don't exist. Now I'm a huge Macross II fan, and I'd love to see some straight-up homages to my favorite OVA, but it's just not gonna happen so long as Kawamori's calling the shots. Edited April 14, 2009 by Seto Kaiba Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr March Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 I really don't see the similarities between the Armored VF-25 and the VF-2SS at all! "Look at that subtle off-white coloring. The tasteful thickness of it. Oh my gawd, it even has a forehead camera" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchizophrenicMC Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 And I still know why you people see in that craft from Galaxy as a VF-2SS homage. Actually, I think of it as a VF-2JA homage I'm just not seeing it at all. most of these are on the level of saying a YF-21 is similar to a Gouf because they're both blue and have red mono-eyes. Of course not! GOUFs have MUCH bigger feet. Now, I won't say anything about the links between the HWR-0 Monster MkII and the RX-75 Guntank... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macross007 Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 It's kind of like the Robotech fans who were convinced that Battlestar Galactica was crammed full of Robotech homages... imagining links that don't exist. Got a good laugh reading this the other day. Thanks Robotech.com for making my life more envoyable lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedWolf Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 LOL that reminds of when we discussed Daybreak Part at the Allspark. I never seizes to amaze me how the Galactica pulls Macross manuevers. First was the rescue in Caprica now with a Daedalus Attack. In a way the Colonials/Cylons are the Protoculture. The first ones with culture. Teaching their culture was one of Lee's ideas especially with language. While it is true that humans naturally evolved there is a hint of alien manipulation. Like what is implied in the Macross franchise.In this case with Hera. And, like Macross/Robotech, it's music that changes the playing field. *thinks* Holy Frack. If "All Along the Watchtower" was written by Sam, than that means that Sam is Minmei! Which makes Kara into Rick, by association, and turns Lee into Lisa! Helo and Sharon are obviously Max and Miriya, which makes Hera into Dana. . . . . . I need to go lie down now. Associating things to Robotech leads to mental breakdown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchizophrenicMC Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 LOL that reminds of when we discussed Daybreak Part at the Allspark. And, like Macross/Robotech, it's music that changes the playing field. *thinks* Holy Frack. If "All Along the Watchtower" was written by Sam, than that means that Sam is Minmei! Which makes Kara into Rick, by association, and turns Lee into Lisa! Helo and Sharon are obviously Max and Miriya, which makes Hera into Dana. . . . . . I need to go lie down now. Associating things to Robotech leads to mental breakdown. Die? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kronnang Dunn Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 I have never understood the irrational hate towards Macross II just because it isn't canon. AFAIK, it is still part of the franchise and it's got pretty nice mecha designs. I also believe its release was the reason Kawamori returned to the franchise in the first place. Oh the fanboyism... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr March Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 There's no hate towards Macross II. There's indifference, but there's no hate It's pointless trying to find Macross II references in Frontier. Sure, Kawamori swiped some of the soundtrack for Macross 7, but that's about the extent of it. He's made it clear on a number of occasions that he really couldn't give a tinker's damn about Macross II. It's kind of like the Robotech fans who were convinced that Battlestar Galactica was crammed full of Robotech homages... imagining links that don't exist. The MacII-isms remind me of the heady days of Neon Genesis Evangelion when every fanboy was so enthralled by the "genius" of it they had to proclaim how everything was a rip-off of NGE. Though MII being a sequel makes the irony that much more hilarious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kronnang Dunn Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 There's no hate towards Macross II. There's indifference, but there's no hate Irony... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr March Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 irrational hate Irony... Yup, it sure is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kronnang Dunn Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 (edited) The thing I like the most of Macross II are the designs. Even if they are not Kawamori's, they still are pretty cool looking. I hope they integrate the Mac II story into the main continuity somehow someday... Edited April 14, 2009 by Kronnang Dunn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedWolf Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 (edited) The thing I like the most of Macross II are the designs. Even if they are not Kawamori's, they still are pretty cool looking. I wish they integrate the Mac II story into the main continuity somehow... But they won't. Macross II already has its own universe. Macross DYRL being the event prior to Macross II. Macross TV being the base event for sequels Macross Plus, Macross 7, Macross Frontier and Macross Zero as its prequel. Edited April 14, 2009 by RedWolf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Loe Kee Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 The thing I like the most of Macross II are the designs. Even if they are not Kawamori's, they still are pretty cool looking. I wish they integrate the Mac II story into the main continuity somehow... i finally re-watched macross (in japanese this time, i rented the english dubb version years ago). i forgot that they destroyed the macross in mii. before that happened i kept saying "why is this considered 'alternative universe', it seems that it can fit into the universe somehow". then, they destroyed the macross... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kronnang Dunn Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 (edited) But they won't. Macross II already has its own universe. I know that. However, since Macross II is still part of the franchise despite not being part of the main Studio Nue continuity (since it was produced by BigWest) the possibility exists. In anime, everything is possible... Edited April 14, 2009 by Kronnang Dunn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anime52k8 Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 I know that. However, since Macross II is still part of the franchise despite not being part of the main Studio Nue continuity (since it was produced by BigWest) the possibility exists. In anime, everything is possible... some things just shouldn't happen even if they ARE possible; like an anime adaptation of Schindlers list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 I hope they integrate the Mac II story into the main continuity somehow someday... It's posts like this that make me fervently wish I had the power to smite people over TCP/IP. I have only one question for you... "Why would you want to do this terrible thing?" Seriously, why would you want to include a decent show like Macross II: Lovers Again in a continuity that contains pants-on-head retarded poo like Macross 7? Including Macross 7 in ANY Macross continuity is like having your breakfast with a nice tall plague rat smoothie... you're just going to regret it later. Macross II is much better off as a parallel universe that maybe one day Big West will return to and explore in more depth. Likewise, the main Macross timeline would be much better off if Macross 7 were written off as a long, particularly obnoxious nightmare Ozma had because of a morphine overdose while he was laid up in the hospital. But they won't. Macross II already has its own universe. Macross DYRL being the event prior to Macross II. Actually, there's more to it than that... there're also two canon prequel games, Macross 2036: the Neld Fleet Incident, and Macross: Eternal Love Song. Not to mention a couple novels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenius Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 You know, Macross has an alternate universe, maybe we'll get an MIII some day, a sequel to MII that happens in that alternate universe. I'd be down for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kronnang Dunn Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 (edited) some things just shouldn't happen even if they ARE possible; like an anime adaptation of Schindlers list. Despite not being a Kawamori creation the OVA series had a great production staff. I found the story pretty simple and not as good as the one from the original series or DYRL, but it still was an ok Macross series. I just hope one day Kawamori changes his mind and trolls us all again by making it part of the official continuity, hehe... It's posts like this that make me fervently wish I had the power to smite people over TCP/IP. I have only one question for you... "Why would you want to do this terrible thing?" Seriously, why would you want to include a decent show like Macross II: Lovers Again in a continuity that contains pants-on-head retarded poo like Macross 7? Including Macross 7 in ANY Macross continuity is like having your breakfast with a nice tall plague rat smoothie... you're just going to regret it later. Macross II is much better off as a parallel universe that maybe one day Big West will return to and explore in more depth. Likewise, the main Macross timeline would be much better off if Macross 7 were written off as a long, particularly obnoxious nightmare Ozma had because of a morphine overdose while he was laid up in the hospital. Actually, there's more to it than that... there're also two canon prequel games, Macross 2036: the Neld Fleet Incident, and Macross: Eternal Love Song. Not to mention a couple novels. Duh, because I liked Macross 7? I used to hate the show, BUT after I watched It entirely I changed my mind completely. Why? Because It had nice /m/ designs (however, I still don't like the faces of the Fire Bomber valks) and it also showed characters from the original SDF TV series and movie. It also had valks straight from Plus, what made it even more cool. Is the same thing with Frontier or Mac II for me... there are elements in all the series produced after SDFM that I don't like that much, but I still tolerate them because what I like the most is the mecha... You know, Macross has an alternate universe, maybe we'll get an MIII some day, a sequel to MII that happens in that alternate universe. I'd be down for that. Well, there were a couple games for the Turbo Duo, Macross 2036 and Macross Eternal Love Song which had awesome designs, original characters from Mikimoto and were set in the same alternate universe of Mac II (many years before the Mac II OVA). In one of those games Komilia Fallyna Jenius even appeared as a supporting character. An alternate Macross universe series based on those games would be awesome... Edited April 15, 2009 by Kronnang Dunn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 (edited) Duh, because I liked Macross 7? I used to hate the show, BUT after I watched It entirely I changed my mind completely. Why? Because It had nice /m/ designs (however, I still don't like the faces of the Fire Bomber valks) and it also showed characters from the original SDF TV series and movie. This is a clear case of what I like to call Robotech syndrome... a strange and mysterious mental illness which causes those afflicted to enjoy horrible sequels just because they contain some familiar characters or mecha. For me, and many others, the experience of watching Macross 7 could be faithfully replicated by spending 18 hours pounding nails into your face while you clean out your ears with a baseball bat covered in 40-grit sandpaper. It would take a MASSIVE undertaking to shoehorn Macross II into the main continuity... the two backstories are fundamentally incompatible... something I'm immensely grateful for. The U.N. Spacy of the alternate continuity actually considers the Zentradi a serious threat right up until 2082, and there's no silly magical singing. Edited April 15, 2009 by Seto Kaiba Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kronnang Dunn Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 (edited) This is a clear case of what I like to call Robotech syndrome... a strange and mysterious mental illness which causes those afflicted to enjoy horrible sequels just because they contain some familiar characters or mecha. The Macross 7 design was awesome. The new UN Spacy ships were awesome. The VF-17 was awesome. The Varauta ships and mecha were awesome. And they were different to anything shown before (yes, not even Robotech, LOL). I you didn't like them, bad for you. It would take a MASSIVE undertaking to shoehorn Macross II into the main continuity... the two backstories are fundamentally incompatible... something I'm immensely grateful for. The U.N. Spacy of the alternate continuity actually considers the Zentradi a serious threat right up until 2082, and there's no silly magical singing. Like I said before, in anime everything is possible. Btw, the U.N. Spacy of both continuities considers them a threat. That's why they developed big armies that even had Zentradi soldiers in them in those continuities... Edited April 15, 2009 by Kronnang Dunn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedWolf Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 I'm pretty sure the VF-XX Zentradian is for miclones. The UNS Variable Glaug from Macross M3 is for miclone pilots. The Zentradi Variable Glaug is for regular sized Zentradi. What is interesting about Macross II is that the Mardook developed their own variable weapon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 I'm pretty sure the VF-XX Zentradian is for miclones. Yeah, that's the impression I've got from what little information B-Club #79, Entertainment Bible 51, and This is Animation Special #5 have had to say about it. They're more focused on its relationship to the 2nd Generation VFs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 This is a clear case of what I like to call Robotech syndrome... a strange and mysterious mental illness which causes those afflicted to enjoy horrible sequels just because they contain some familiar characters or mecha. For me, and many others, the experience of watching Macross 7 could be faithfully replicated by spending 18 hours pounding nails into your face while you clean out your ears with a baseball bat covered in 40-grit sandpaper. But it's got BASARA! E•V•E•R•Y•O•N•E loves Basara! (Except AgentONE, of course...but he's the übermensch. We cannot all be so godlike.) BOMBAA!!! It would take a MASSIVE undertaking to shoehorn Macross II into the main continuity... the two backstories are fundamentally incompatible... something I'm immensely grateful for. The U.N. Spacy of the alternate continuity actually considers the Zentradi a serious threat right up until 2082, and there's no silly magical singing. I agree about the backstories...to the casual viewer, I'm sure it looks like it could fit, though. I haven't played the games, so I could be wrong here...but I thought the whole problem was that the Zentradi WEREN'T considered a big threat. They show up, U.N. Spacy plays the Minmay Defense, and the Valks wipe the floor with the Zents. No biggie, right? Until the Mardook show up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 (edited) I haven't played the games, so I could be wrong here...but I thought the whole problem was that the Zentradi WEREN'T considered a big threat. They show up, U.N. Spacy plays the Minmay Defense, and the Valks wipe the floor with the Zents. No biggie, right? Until the Mardook show up. Nah, the U.N. Spacy takes the Neld and Burado fleets extremely seriously... and the unnamed 2054 fleet even more seriously... they considered that one a big enough threat to establish a permanent defensive perimeter at Pluto's orbit and commit most of their fleet to it for an entire year. (That's also the fleet that thrashed the U.N. Spacy and destroyed most of the former Adoclas fleet) It wasn't until the 2082 invasion where they started getting cocky... since that was the first overwhelming victory they'd had... due to a mixture of the Minmay Defense, the new VF-2SS, and their new ships. They were already dependent on the Minmay Defense before that, but the 2082 victory was what gave them the feeling that they couldn't be beaten. Edited April 15, 2009 by Seto Kaiba Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr March Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Seriously, why would you want to include a decent show like Macross II: Lovers Again in a continuity that contains pants-on-head retarded poo like Macross 7? Including Macross 7 in ANY Macross continuity is like having your breakfast with a nice tall plague rat smoothie... you're just going to regret it later. Macross II is much better off as a parallel universe that maybe one day Big West will return to and explore in more depth. Likewise, the main Macross timeline would be much better off if Macross 7 were written off as a long, particularly obnoxious nightmare Ozma had because of a morphine overdose while he was laid up in the hospital. I agree. Macross II works as a totally self-contained sequel without any ties to Flashback 2012 or the rest of the Macross franchise. Trying to wedge Macross II into the franchise can only make it do something it was never designed to do. Like I've always said, Macross II is Macross enough. It doesn't need merging into the time line or ham-fisted explanations to link it with any other Macross. It can be enjoyed to it's full extent alone, such as it is I'm pretty sure the VF-XX Zentradian is for miclones. The UNS Variable Glaug from Macross M3 is for miclone pilots. The Zentradi Variable Glaug is for regular sized Zentradi. What is interesting about Macross II is that the Mardook developed their own variable weapon. Yeah, that's a weird one. Seto Kaiba was nice enough to supply me with scans of the original artwork for this mecha and some information about it. I've colored it and created a profile, which I will be adding in the next update of the M3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VF5SS Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Macross II is the G-Savior or Megazone 23 III of the franchise. Really far into the future of the series and not successful enough to warrant any more attention or acknowledgment as a true sequel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zinjo Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Never say never... The once locked door has been openned a crack with the revelations of fold faults and the existence of more than one Macross Class warship in the Nue continuity. With some story editing Mac II could be shoe horned into the Nue continuity, however there will be those like Seto who would remain faithful to the original, just as with any revision of an existing production. I'm not opposed to the idea personally, if only to see the multiple dangling story threads either tied off or abandoned all together... However, we simply don't know if Bandai is willing to sponsor a "re-launch" of that show in a new form... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Never say never... The once locked door has been openned a crack with the revelations of fold faults and the existence of more than one Macross Class warship in the Nue continuity. With some story editing Mac II could be shoe horned into the Nue continuity, however there will be those like Seto who would remain faithful to the original, just as with any revision of an existing production. I'm not opposed to the idea personally, if only to see the multiple dangling story threads either tied off or abandoned all together... However, we simply don't know if Bandai is willing to sponsor a "re-launch" of that show in a new form... We'll see the full 52-episode version of F91 before we ever see Macross II revised so that it fits current macross canon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anime52k8 Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 We'll see the full 52-episode version of F91 before we ever see Macross II revised so that it fits current macross canon. especially since the 52 episode version is actually wanted and should really be made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REbirth Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Personally, I'd go for a Crossbone Gundam TV series (F91 was gorgeous, delicious and all, but it's just a setup for Crossbone) and Five Star Stories TV series before seeing another MII. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VF5SS Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Never say never... The once locked door has been openned a crack with the revelations of fold faults and the existence of more than one Macross Class warship in the Nue continuity. None of that has anything to do with Macross II which was not a huge success. It's going to stay in its own little world because nobody cared about enough even at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anime52k8 Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 (edited) Personally, I'd go for a Crossbone Gundam TV series (F91 was gorgeous, delicious and all, but it's just a setup for Crossbone) and Five Star Stories TV series before seeing another MII. Speaking of FFS getting more love than MacII I would LOVE to see some actual Mortar-Headd TOYS, a lot more so than I would want any MacII toys. (F**k you Mamoru Nagano and your refusal to license FSS toys.) Edited April 16, 2009 by anime52k8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 We'll see the full 52-episode version of F91 before we ever see Macross II revised so that it fits current macross canon. Something for which I am heartily grateful... Personally, I'd go for a Crossbone Gundam TV series (F91 was gorgeous, delicious and all, but it's just a setup for Crossbone) and Five Star Stories TV series before seeing another MII. While I'd love to see the Macross II timeline explored in more detail, I'd rather they went backwards and did OVA adaptations of the Neld Fleet Incident in 2036, the three-way war of 2037, and the 2054 Zentradi invasion. Like the main timeline's bizarre compulsion with turning every enemy into an ally by the end of the series, Macross II kind of wrote itself into a corner... there's nobody left to fight, unless they go with the whole "300 years in the future war with the colonies" thing that early rumors suggested Macross II would be about, but that might be a bit over-Gundam-y for my taste. I wouldn't turn up my nose at a Five Star Stories TV show either... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phyrox Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Speaking of FFS getting more love than MacII I would LOVE to see some actual Mortar-Headd TOYS, a lot more so than I would want any MacII toys. There were FFS toys if I remember correctly. I never had any, so I can't say anything about quality, etc., but they did exist. http://www.hlj.com/hljlist2/?MacroType=Act...p;GenreCode=Sci Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kronnang Dunn Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 (edited) While I'd love to see the Macross II timeline explored in more detail, I'd rather they went backwards and did OVA adaptations of the Neld Fleet Incident in 2036, the three-way war of 2037, and the 2054 Zentradi invasion. Like the main timeline's bizarre compulsion with turning every enemy into an ally by the end of the series, Macross II kind of wrote itself into a corner... there's nobody left to fight, unless they go with the whole "300 years in the future war with the colonies" thing that early rumors suggested Macross II would be about, but that might be a bit over-Gundam-y for my taste. I concur completely... I'd love to see more Humans vs Zentradi action... Wether is canon or not... Edited April 16, 2009 by Kronnang Dunn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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