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Macross Frontier Final Episode Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*


azrael
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Thanks for pointing that out. I'd hate for K©anaria to not be there. IT was sad though that the underlings for Alto bit it. (Kawamori - you are so mean.... you let the red-shirts live for an extra episode and then killed them off XD ).

Wolfx: I think to be honest, Alto will continue to wander around. I'm not comfortable pegging him down to either girl at this point because they both seemed sort of fixed on the "Singing" path.

For some reason, I feel that now these folks have been dropped on a new unexplored planet, I could definitely see SMS flying around, charting the terrain, helping establish a new world. To me, that really changes the daily sort of routines and dreams of likely everyone involved. The path that existed before (as Sheryl stated) doesn't really exist anymore. Something new has started.

The possibilities have been opened up actually to no romantic pairing. COlonizing is a whole new world literally and figuratively.

Another random plot dangler - Think the message to EArth will result in more people coming to the VAjra homeworld in the near future? Kind of an interesting idea in itself to keep following. If there was ever a desire to spin off storylines, Frontier has left so many things open to explore.

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I'm wondering if I've been seeing the same show as some of the people who have been posting.

And you haven't seen 4chan :lol:

Although there were still people with the right amount of enthusiasm ^_^

(spoiler because of language)

This was the best f*cking episode ever of anything.

Here's me watching it:

F*CK YEAH BATTLE GALAXY

ZONDER GRACE HOLY F*CK

HOLY F*CK GHOSTS

I'M SHITTING BRICKS EVERY FIVE SECONDS

LOLI KLAN IN A VALKYRIE

HOLY F*CK WHY IS THIS SO F*CKING AWESOME

NORTHERN CROSS!

TOTSUGEKI LOOOOOVVVEEEE HHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAATTTOOOOOOOOOOOOO

F*****CCKKKK IT HAS A BEAM SABER

THIS IS THE BEST SUPER ROBOT WARS STAGE EVER

DAEDALUS ATTACK

FRONTIER JUST F*CKING PUNCHED GALAXY

DIE BITCH!

LOL OH WOW HE HAS A PICTURE OF MINMAY

SHERYL X RANKA END

FV

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and since we dont see the City section of Galaxy, we can assume the citizens are safe? since those in the Battle section are probably soldiers...

Most likely...but still, the presumably adorable Galaxy Bridge bunnies probably got fried. :mellow:

Edited by Gubaba
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Bilrer formed the entire sms just as a way to achieve his own goals in finding the megaroad 1 and minnmay....i like that i think its massively interesting and interesting the way he was left open ended and ambiguous so we can see ourselves in him because im sure that didnt want to be given away until the end.

Too bad breras eye was ok in the end, i would love to see a side story where Brera with a patch over his eye travels the Galaxy doing good deeds and trying to come closer to his humanity....and falls in love hehe.

I guess it can still be done..sans patch..but the patch would have been cool =)

BTW...most awesome ending ever. I think when we see more macross its going to be something smaller and more internal...less massive and a more intimate story...Now that the Galaxy has been opened up by alot...maybe something far out on the edges of teh Galaxy.

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And you haven't seen 4chan :lol:

Although there were still people with the right amount of enthusiasm ^_^

(spoiler because of language)

This was the best f*cking episode ever of anything.

Here's me watching it:

F*CK YEAH BATTLE GALAXY

ZONDER GRACE HOLY F*CK

HOLY F*CK GHOSTS

I'M SHITTING BRICKS EVERY FIVE SECONDS

LOLI KLAN IN A VALKYRIE

HOLY F*CK WHY IS THIS SO F*CKING AWESOME

NORTHERN CROSS!

TOTSUGEKI LOOOOOVVVEEEE HHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAATTTOOOOOOOOOOOOO

F*****CCKKKK IT HAS A BEAM SABER

THIS IS THE BEST SUPER ROBOT WARS STAGE EVER

DAEDALUS ATTACK

FRONTIER JUST F*CKING PUNCHED GALAXY

DIE BITCH!

LOL OH WOW HE HAS A PICTURE OF MINMAY

SHERYL X RANKA END

FV

Oh I remember reading that. I loled heartily ^_^

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I liked what Alto say to Sheryl and Ranka "You're my wings both of you", meaning they're both very important to him

Of course we all know the answer to this : ménage à trois ! :ph34r:

-Sergorn

I was hoping for the harem ending. I can see Alto singing Chef's "Simultaneous" from Southpark.

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Speaking of eyes...does Nanase still have a right eye or not?

Screw the love triangle, I want resolution to THAT mystery! :lol:

The question is, was Nanase in a regular shelter or Luca put her in special room where he is going to write her down as a casualty of the war and he will have her in her own private room tending to her until she gets "better"

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I think Kawamori was just trolling. It was meant to be anticlimatic. Since the rest of the episode was a perfect climax though I'll forgive him that :lol:

Of course Kawamori was trolling you people. All those who wanted to see Megaroad-01 again were Birla. When he closed the ring locket, that was a signal to those people who still want to see the olde triangle, "Nope. Not gonna happen." Just like all the other trolling he's done this series.

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I hate having to wait so long to see these, but now I finally have with subs and all.

A magnificent end to a magnificent series. I can never begin to describe how good this episode was, but I bet everyone has already said it. Too bad we didn't see Frontier fire it's big honkin' space gun, but we got Macross attack instead, and that is just as good.

Now, on to the next one. The Frontier movie and anything that lies ahead in Macross' future!

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Okay, I just watched the finale again for the 4th time (this was the first time through with subtitles). Now that I've had plenty of time to absorb it all, I am now completely convinced that some of you were watching some other show. Because this was/is absolutely AMAZING.

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total newb question who else was working with

grace on the galaxy? i mean who crewed it?

I think it is safe to say that Grace and Galaxy are no longer human but AI.

An AI collective intelligence. That's why we hear voices in her head. Also those around her in cyberespace is an indication of those connected to her.

Hell they were using automated Ghosts not Valkyries. You can bet that the VF-27's aren't piloted anymore.

Much like the VF-11 drones in Macross Plus. the Neo Glaug and the Az-130A Panzerzorene late in the Protodevlin war.

This is not the end of Galaxy as only Battle Galaxy and some of its fleet was present in battle.

Macross Galaxy is still out there.

NUNS would have a hard time trying to find them.

This brings to question whether there is still humans and loyal NUNS personel on Macross Galaxy.

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I think it is safe to say that Grace and Galaxy are no longer human but AI.

An AI collective intelligence. That's why we hear voices in her head. Also those around her in cyberespace is an indication of those connected to her.

Hell they were using automated Ghosts not Valkyries. You can bet that the VF-27's aren't piloted anymore.

Much like the VF-11 drones in Macross Plus. the Neo Glaug and the Az-130A Panzerzorene late in the Protodevlin war.

This is not the end of Galaxy as only Battle Galaxy and some of its fleet was present in battle.

Macross Galaxy is still out there.

NUNS would have a hard time trying to find them.

This brings to question whether there is still humans and loyal NUNS personel on Macross Galaxy.

intresting. now the question is, did they become that willingly?

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I think it is safe to say that Grace and Galaxy are no longer human but AI.

An AI collective intelligence. That's why we hear voices in her head. Also those around her in cyberespace is an indication of those connected to her.

Hell they were using automated Ghosts not Valkyries. You can bet that the VF-27's aren't piloted anymore.

Much like the VF-11 drones in Macross Plus. the Neo Glaug and the Az-130A Panzerzorene late in the Protodevlin war.

This is not the end of Galaxy as only Battle Galaxy and some of its fleet was present in battle.

Macross Galaxy is still out there.

NUNS would have a hard time trying to find them.

This brings to question whether there is still humans and loyal NUNS personel on Macross Galaxy.

We know from magazine interviews that the other voices were the top brass from Galaxy.

Why would the VF-27's not be piloted? Because they had a large ammount of ghosts as well? Don't find one being proof of the other.

I sure think they were, same with Battle Galaxy, The Dulfim classes and Kaitos classes all being crewed.

If you don't like the fact that anyone would willingly serve the evil Galaxy plot, keep in mind that at least for the VF-27's the pilots all _have_ to be cyborgs, so they could all have "slave mode" in case they wanted to break free. But I'm not about to assume that a previously manned craft is suddenly unmanned.

Edited by VF-25 Messiah
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I think it is safe to say that Grace and Galaxy are no longer human but AI.

An AI collective intelligence. That's why we hear voices in her head. Also those around her in cyberespace is an indication of those connected to her.

Hell they were using automated Ghosts not Valkyries. You can bet that the VF-27's aren't piloted anymore.

Much like the VF-11 drones in Macross Plus. the Neo Glaug and the Az-130A Panzerzorene late in the Protodevlin war.

This is not the end of Galaxy as only Battle Galaxy and some of its fleet was present in battle.

Macross Galaxy is still out there.

NUNS would have a hard time trying to find them.

This brings to question whether there is still humans and loyal NUNS personel on Macross Galaxy.

I would think, assuming they're still normal humans, they'd be hauling backside and looking for assistance at this point-- assuming they can't find a planet they can drop anchor on and colonize. So NUNS might not have to do to much locking for them.

Wouldn't the larger question be-- assuming the city/islands survive-- how much experimentation were they subjected too, and has the v-type virus spread through their population.

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lol at Alto for not having nosebleed or whatever since he really was performing past beyond the limits of human capabilities being able to fight alongside brera which made his helmet's visor go all destroyed and shattered to pieces before handing out the 'final judgement' XD

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I would think, assuming they're still normal humans, they'd be hauling backside and looking for assistance at this point-- assuming they can't find a planet they can drop anchor on and colonize. So NUNS might not have to do to much locking for them.

Wouldn't the larger question be-- assuming the city/islands survive-- how much experimentation were they subjected too, and has the v-type virus spread through their population.

I meant special groups created to deal with insurrectionists. Like the Dancing Skull squadron which Max and Milia once belonged and the VFX Ravens.

Macross Galaxy threatened the entire sphere of the NUN.

Also having bad experiences with AI such as Sharon Apple, Earth may consider them too dangerous to left to their own devices.

Edited by RedWolf
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Good God, does EVERYTHING have to be described as "Kawamori was trolling"? I've never become more sick of stupid internet fan phrases than I have this year alone between "Kawamori trolling" for Macross and "trainwreck" for Code Geass. Seriously, can we all discuss things without using stupid group think internet terms?

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Good God, does EVERYTHING have to be described as "Kawamori was trolling"? I've never become more sick of stupid internet fan phrases than I have this year alone between "Kawamori trolling" for Macross and "trainwreck" for Code Geass. Seriously, can we all discuss things without using stupid group think internet terms?

Couldn't agree with you more actually. Crying troll whenever something didn't go exactly the way thought it should gets old real' quick and is kinda grating on the nerves. People crying need to realize this was the way things were intended to go, and not their personal fantasy version of the end.

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Couldn't agree with you more actually. Crying troll whenever something didn't go exactly the way thought it should gets old real' quick and is kinda grating on the nerves. People crying need to realize this was the way things were intended to go, and not their personal fantasy version of the end.

More like reverence to unpredictability. Shoji Kawamori is quite a spin doctor.

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Of course Kawamori was trolling you people. All those who wanted to see Megaroad-01 again were Birla. When he closed the ring locket, that was a signal to those people who still want to see the olde triangle, "Nope. Not gonna happen." Just like all the other trolling he's done this series.

THAT HAD BETTER NOT BE TRUE KAWAMORI!! :angry:

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Are you trying to say all the people crying troll are in fact praising him? :huh:

Not all. The most rabid shippers really hate it.

List of Kawamori trolling in Frontier

1. Temzin, Ohgatwhai and Advisor - Not Quamzin. Vrlitwhai or Exsedol

2. WTF-1 Not Macross but the 177th fleet Macross-04 Global

3. Frakking Grace

4. Pine Cake - Ozma is not Roy Focker and gets to eat pineapple too.

5. Macross 7 end on the Love Triangle

6. Bilrer was looking for Minmay!

Even Taniguchi can't match SK's awesomeness.

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Good God, does EVERYTHING have to be described as "Kawamori was trolling"? I've never become more sick of stupid internet fan phrases than I have this year alone between "Kawamori trolling" for Macross and "trainwreck" for Code Geass. Seriously, can we all discuss things without using stupid group think internet terms?

I am guilty of using the term once. Yeah, 4chan ruins you for life :(

On the other hand, Kawamori is explicitly toying with the audience, to unprecedented levels. Even Evangelion was more an exercise in direction, very kubrick-like, and its purpose was not always to be pleasant. Macross Frontier does not bail out on the fans instead. They have in common a postmodern approach.

The key word to know here is metanarrative. A metanarrative is a grand scheme where everything is explained. This can be also considered a positive quality in writing, but the excesses of such kind of stories, which abuses of coincidences, can be easily ridiculed. The scene with Bilra is an example of that. It mocks fans expecting to see what happened to megaroad-01, which by ludicrous chance could have appeared in the story.

It is to be noted that with a postmodern approach there is different emphasis on the story. The revelations of underlying metanarratives (these grand schemes of explanation) are diminished in importance by explaining them in few seconds and having characters not always being particularly impressed by them. This is not a case of bad writing, just a different aesthetic, although unluckily it's not for all.

Hope this satisfied you ;)

FV

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funny story. my cousin caught me watching the first episode of macross F. you know, at the concert.

so they finally made a final fight anime series? he says to me.

whatchu talking about? i asked

well that is Poison right? he said pointing at Sheryl Nome.

now i cant watch sheryl without thinking about Poison's gender issues.

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I am guilty of using the term once. Yeah, 4chan ruins you for life :(

On the other hand, Kawamori is explicitly toying with the audience, to unprecedented levels. Even Evangelion was more an exercise in direction, very kubrick-like, and its purpose was not always to be pleasant. Macross Frontier does not bail out on the fans instead. They have in common a postmodern approach.

The key word to know here is metanarrative. A metanarrative is a grand scheme where everything is explained. This can be also considered a positive quality in writing, but the excesses of such kind of stories, which abuses of coincidences, can be easily ridiculed. The scene with Bilra is an example of that. It mocks fans expecting to see what happened to megaroad-01, which by ludicrous chance could have appeared in the story.

It is to be noted that with a postmodern approach there is different emphasis on the story. The revelations of underlying metanarratives (these grand schemes of explanation) are diminished in importance by explaining them in few seconds and having characters not always being particularly impressed by them. This is not a case of bad writing, just a different aesthetic, although unluckily it's not for all.

Hope this satisfied you ;)

FV

Interesting and informative, but I think you missed my point. I'm not talking at all about the show or Kawamori's techniques. I'm simply lamenting the fact that this forum, which usually rises above stupidity like 4chan-isms, has completely been overrun by "Kawamori trolling" at every corner. No matter what people's opinions of the show are, I wish they could discuss them in a way that doesn't just spout out tired and annoying internet memes like "Kawamori trolling."

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Great episode. I'm not surprised that there was a significant fraction of negative reactions this time--you'll never make everyone happy, and some people seemed to set themselves up for disappointment, with demands that everything be resolved at a deliberate pace, in loving detail. Final episodes are, well, final, after all. No more room to take a "wait and see" approach.

I think it's a bit inaccurate to describe this episode as "rushed." Extremely fast-paced, yes, and on the first viewing, I don't think it always worked (it's been bothering me less on subsequent viewings, I must admit), but rushed implies that they had to go at this frenetic pace because they were running out of time.

On the contrary, I think the crazy pace of the finale was planned for some time now. They wanted to go out with a big bang, a single episode to cap off everything in one furious explosion of action. Pushing things along at breakneck speed isn't exactly something unique to the final episode, and animation isn't like live action--you don't get to episode 25 and suddenly realize, hey, I need to film a final episode with everything in it. You need to have started the process months in advance, and the level of control animation provides allows you to pull off something where every frame counts. It's one of the unique things about the medium.

That said, I don't know if I personally like it (I wasn't too fond of it in earlier episodes, either), or if it entirely works, but it's still very awesome, and repeat viewings really do help resolve the overall action in my mind. I hope future Macrosses try to slow things down in the future, though. :)

Also, I don't know if the Blu-ray version will try to extend some sequences out, since extra scenes are sorta traditional for something like this. I expect so, although that might compromise the intended pacing. Probably have two versions, similar to the first episode's multiple versions.

I'm sorta branching off into series discussion now, but I think you need to look at the finale in the context of the series as a whole to really be satisfied with it. Macross Frontier is really a much less epic story than the original Macross was. We're dealing with a single colonization fleet and a tightly-interconnected group of characters, with the threat localized (until the very end), while the original Macross told a story about a massive clash of civilizations, involving the fate of all of humanity. In that sense, Frontier is much more like Macross 7 than it first seemed. It's not so much a new SDF Macross, as a new Macross 7, and if you expected one I can understand how you might be upset that you got the other.

Indeed. I have a terabyte storage device just for those Gigs of movies. :lol:

The GG sub actually has multiple subtitle tracks, and (get this), a 2.0 and 5.1 audio track. There's your extra 300 MB or so right there. :) (This is, incidentally, one of the big advantages of the MKV format. Understandable how people who just want to watch the episode don't want to deal with that complexity, though.)

I originally thought the video stream was just larger to accommodate the extra action, but multichannel audio tracks do tend to take up a lot of space, and the video stream wouldn't need to be twice as big to accommodate the action in this episode.

After viewing it a second time, I understood the real purpose of the medley of songs. When Quarter attacked, it was Infinity as in ep. 7. When Also rescued Ranka, it was similar to a scene in ep. 27 of SDF, so they used Watashi No Kare Wa Pilot. And so on. Each song describes perfectly the moment it was used on, even when there were two songs at the same time. This is truely a brilliant direction, no wonder the man in charge of the episode was Kawamori himself.

I think the song medley was to emphasize the point that there were two different, individual voices, the thing that made the Vajra finally understand human individuality. When the songs clash, it's to demonstrate that sometimes humans are in conflict, but when they work together, it's showing individuals can work together, too. Only a hive mind can sing in perfect unison, like the Vajra do. :)

I think Kawamori was just trolling. It was meant to be anticlimatic. Since the rest of the episode was a perfect climax though I'll forgive him that :lol:

Actually, I took the whole final scene with Bilrer to reflect his disappointment that things hadn't turned out the way he had hoped after all. Anticlimactic for him, maybe, but actually sorta sweet for the fans. He misses Minmay, and thought he'd found a way to finally meet her, but in the end, there was no way for him to do that without resorting to Grace-like evil...

Incidentally, I don't know if Grace really saw herself as evil. She assumed everyone else would want what she wanted ("ultimate human evolution": fusion with the Vajra, becoming a galaxy-spanning superbeing, something the Protoculture had never achieved), and couldn't understand why anyone wouldn't want that. Maybe she finally understood that at the end, although I took her final expression to be more of hangover from being disconnected from the galaxy-spanning consciousness of the Vajra. To have known, felt all that... and then lost it.

Why would the VF-27's not be piloted? Because they had a large ammount of ghosts as well? Don't find one being proof of the other.

I sure think they were, same with Battle Galaxy, The Dulfim classes and Kaitos classes all being crewed.

I agree the VF-27s were piloted, buuuuuuuuut...

How often do we actually see, in the flesh, not via a video feed, the actual crew of any Galaxy spacecraft? No cannon fodder bridge crews or pilots or anything.

I think that's suspicious enough alone. Large portions of the Galaxy populace may spend most of their time uploaded into cyberspace, or at least their military. It might be an interesting topic to explore in the movie, if it continues the story, rather than repeats it. GitS, Macross-style?

That makes a lot of sense. There is a direct trade-off between the Ghost combat abilities and the highly-unstable self-preservation behavior as seen exhibited by the Ghost X-9. Luca disabled the fail-safe/restrain placed on the Judah system, so his drones can stand a chance against the overwhelming numbers of V-9.

I read even more into it than that. I think Luca admired Sharon Apple (seeing as how he loves his machines :)), even though she ended up being highly unstable. He gave his Ghosts the same abilities, and when he unleashed them, it was like giving Sharon and AI in general a chance to prove herself all over again, without Myung's dysfunctional emotions mucking her up.

What I think really emphasizes this point is how one of his Ghosts, despite being in autonomous mode, sacrifices itself to save him by intercepting a shot, without him apparently even noticing. This was ultimately a vindication for his belief that AI wasn't inherently evil, that it could be loyal and selfless, too. The reputation of AI will probably be rehabilitated in any future Macross series; kinda an odd spin on one of the messages of Macross Plus.

Thanks for pointing that out. I'd hate for K©anaria to not be there. IT was sad though that the underlings for Alto bit it. (Kawamori - you are so mean.... you let the red-shirts live for an extra episode and then killed them off XD ).

I also found this to be the saddest part of the entire final episode. Poor guys.

Wolfx: I think to be honest, Alto will continue to wander around. I'm not comfortable pegging him down to either girl at this point because they both seemed sort of fixed on the "Singing" path.

I concur. I don't really see the "harem" ending so many others seem to. The whole "song/love war" thing seems to be more like, "Hey, we don't have to figure this out in 25 episodes. We have full lives ahead of us now." Since Sheryl isn't dying anymore, and the series has a happy ending for the fleet, why not leave things open-ended? It'll resolve itself in the course of time, and neither Sheryl nor Ranka has to feel rejected. Everyone has time to explore their true feelings.

Another random plot dangler - Think the message to EArth will result in more people coming to the VAjra homeworld in the near future? Kind of an interesting idea in itself to keep following. If there was ever a desire to spin off storylines, Frontier has left so many things open to explore.

If the Frontier movie continues the story, I could really go for this sort of thing. Maybe something light-hearted, Dynamite 7-style, now that the central conflict has been won.

Edited by DeeBot
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Ok, I've just watched the subbed version (very much enhancing teary eyed moments), and its definately confirmed that the Vajra are as old as/older than the Protoculture, and implied that PC technology could indeed be influenced by the Vajra. (the bit about the PC fearing/adoring to the point of mimicing them), which opens up whole new cans of worms.

Could the Vajra be the reason for the PC civil war split? Frontier Vs Galaxy on a much larger scale?

Nice nod to Plus with Luca freeing his Ghosts from their limiters to give them back the power that held Macros city in fear. An awesome episode all around actually, I'm definately happy with the series. Still not clear on where this will fit in with the grander scheme of things though, could Ginga Kujira be an earlier evolution of Vajra that feel off the grander path? Was it pure dumb luck that the Protodevelin didn't come across the Vajra?

We clearly need more pre-human history info now, and hopefully that next movie will deliver.

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