Official - Weapons Banter Thread

[Isamu Atreides 86]

Graham, i've got big hands and am looking into buying a pistol...whats my best bet??

Is it your first handgun? If so, get a .22 and learn to shoot the right way.

yeah, until now, all i've had have been rifles:

.22

30-06

7mm

i wanted a little change up.

[Opus]

Graham, i've got big hands and am looking into buying a pistol...whats my best bet??

Is it your first handgun? If so, get a .22 and learn to shoot the right way.

yeah, until now, all i've had have been rifles:

.22

30-06

7mm

i wanted a little change up.

The Ruger Mark II is a great pistol to start on.

[bsu legato]

*bump*

Just thought I'd ressurrect this thread to announce the newest member of the family. Today at the local arms & militaria show I was able to procure a beautiful M1 Garand, of Breda manufacture from 1955. The wood is in nearly mint condition, the parkerizing is about 80% and the bore is mirror bright. About 10-15 years ago, a large quantity of the Italian manufactured Garands made their way here from Denmark. This particular one still had the internal parts drenched in cosmoline. In fact, I doubt it's been disassembled in several decades. Most likely some schmuck bought it to shoot deer with, or some such stuff, and decided that the 30-06 isn't as much fun to shoot as he'd thought.

[JsARCLIGHT]

This thread still lives! Ha haaaaa!

Anyway I finished the last part of my required CCW training today at the range with my trusty Glock 27. Got two whole mags in the 9 ring from 15 yards, I was second in the class for being most accurate. Needless to say I passed the course with almost all 100%s... now if they would just hurry up the litigation with the law I'll be a happy legal carrier just like everyone else in those other politically incorrect 44 states.

[Ali Sama]

i have alight sabre. I need to get a nice katana and I'll be happy

[bsu legato]

Great....so I finally, after all these years of searching, find myself a beautiful M1 Garand....and I can't shoot the damn thing! The few online guns & militaria dealers in Canada have no en bloc clips in stock, and the few US firms will actually ship to Canada want an outrageous amount for international shipping!

There's a large gun show a month from now, but I may get impatent and resort to eBay... <_<

[JsARCLIGHT]

I'll have to check if those clips (notice they are not "magazines") are exportable from the US by typical shnooks like me. If they are I can buy up a fleet of them at a local gun show and ship them to you at cost. Down here they are as common as air and almost as cheap.

[bsu legato]

By all means, please do JsARC. There shouldn't be any problem for me to import them, since the Garand is exempt from our silly magazine restrictions. Shoot me a PM (no pun intended) if you find out anything. Today I ordered myself a reproduction USGI 1907 sling, so now all I need is a cleaning kit.

On the subject of antique service rifles, who here has seen the Tokarev SVT-40? I saw one for the first time at a gun show last month, and almost bought it (and I probably should have) but stopped myself since that was my Garand/Luger fund I would have dipped into. Still, at $475 CDN, it was probably a steal.

[JsARCLIGHT]

I have never seen an actual "Torky 40" in person (and have heard they are quite rare) but I've heard good things about them... mainly historical things like the Germans dropping their Mausers in favor of the Torky 40s on the eastern front because captured ammo was everywhere and the rifle was just as accurate as the K-98 but was magazine fed and had a higher rate of fire. I'm not so sure if that is true or not as on the flip side of the coin the soviets had a bear of a time with that rifle as it was difficult and costly to manufacture and required a certain "skill set" to use that most army conscripts could not be bothered with to learn in a crunch.

[Mechamaniac]

Answer to Hurricane's question about the Colt Gold Cup National Match.

The National Match Gold Cup pistols are all based on the 1911A1 series of pistol.

Here is some info about that series:

http://www.sightm1911.com/Care/1911_Schematics.htm

And here is info about the National Match in .38 Special

http://users.skynet.be/HL-Editions/coltpag...ag/agoldcup.HTM

Some more info:

http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976377599.htm

Edited November 6, 2003 by Mechamaniac

[Hurricane29]

Thanks, I actually found those web sites before, but they are still help full. I think I'll follow Js' advice and contact Colt itself.

[bsu legato]

I can't imagine that the .38 special Gold Cup functions or breaks down any differently than any other Gold Cup. A 1911 is a 1911 is a 1911, right? Colt would likely have something specific on the .38 special version, but unless there's some unforseen difference I'd say you'd be ok with any of the many manuals for care & operation of the 1911 pistol.

JsARCLIGHT, in modern hindsight that SVT-40 looks like a big Frankenstien's monster. I'm sure it baffled the hell out of your average Russian peasant, especially compared to something like a basic Mosin Nagant. I'd heard the same thing about the German's impresions of the Tokarev. In fact, wasn't the basic SVT-38/40 design the forebearer of the Karbiner 43? Ahh....I should have bought it. It's not like I'll ever see it again.

[Hurricane29]

Well, no one I know personally has any real experience with guns, so I figured that I could get some help online.

[bsu legato]

Well, no one I know personally has any real experience with guns, so I figured that I could get some help online.

No problem.

[Obi Wan] That's what we're here for [/Obi Wan]

[Commander McBride]

Well, I sort of have a gun now...

I bought a cheap Spring UHC Heavyweight Airsoft M92 on sunday.

Now, I just can't decide on what to get next... P226, Glock, USP, or 1911?

[bsu legato]

Actually....It turns out that this guy has several SVT-40's in stock, and decently priced too.

http://www.surplusfirearms.com/

It doesn't do me any good, but maybe one of you guys might be interested.

[JsARCLIGHT]

Wow, that guy sure seems to specialize in eastern bloc stuff... been a while since I saw a Romak Dragonov clone.

[Mechamaniac]

Wow, that guy sure seems to specialize in eastern bloc stuff.

Yeah, a good old fashioned piece of crap Tokarev.

Near successor to the Japanese Nambu for the shittiest military pistol of all time.

[bsu legato]

Yeah, a good old fashioned piece of crap Tokarev.

Yeah, there seems to be no end of these things on the market. But look at it this way....for every crate of Tokarevs they ship out of that giant warehouse in Russia, the closer they get to all those crate of captured Lugers and P38's that have been in storage since '45.

[TheFrenchOne]

Check the link below... 5.56 flechette I have never heard of that.

http://www.waffenhq.de/infanterie/flechette.html

but the steyr ACR

looks like evangelion palette rifle

obviously likely

[Warmaker]

I heard about this a long time ago. The US Army was having a trial for advanced assault rifles but I can't remember the year. All I remember was that this Steyr flechette assault rifle was one of the entries. In the end nobody got anything out of it since none were selected. That trial was the last time this flechette rifle was seen, I believe.

[Druna Skass]

Near successor to the Japanese Nambu for the shittiest military pistol of all time.

Is that the gun they gave to tank crews where if you push hard enough in one spot the gun fires?

[ManxoChu]

I like guns... but to quote "Chuckles" from 8-Bit Theater... I like swords.

swords I own

2 katanas (push-tang, one being a Duncan replica)

1 wakizashi (matches push-tang katana)

1 full tang ninja-to (first sword I got)

1 full tang wakizashi

1 bastard sword (w/ leather scabbard and rosewood handle)

With my being 5'6" the bastard tends to feel more like a two-hander than a hand and a half. The ninja-to feels super-nice since it's full tang.

Sword is personal weapon. when slicing into a man, you got that personal feedback. nuclear weapons... eh... goes off, big bang, and you don't get any feeling.

[bsu legato]

I bring you greetings from theWorld of Tomorrow!

http://www.thermaldynamics.com/pictures/xm8.jpg

Mould it in "brown bess," add a grenade launcher and it's practically an M41A pulse rifle. Well, in spirit anyhow.

[Agent ONE]

I bring you greetings from theWorld of Tomorrow!

http://www.thermaldynamics.com/pictures/xm8.jpg

Mould it in "brown bess," add a grenade launcher and it's practically an M41A pulse rifle. Well, in spirit anyhow.

wow that thing LOOKS awesome. I hope the US upgrades the gear our guys have in the field... We have waited too long for it.

[pfunk]

cool, since this thread is back, I wanted to ask some "expert" opinions. Does anyone own a ruger mini-14 or mini-30 and whats thier opinion of it, Im kinda leaning twards the 14 as a plinker or the 30 for the NATO round and a bigger hit, that is the nato round isnt it, along with the .223 in the 14,,,,,this will be right after i buy the DE.50 (didnt realize how much cash I had without 2 house payments and loans)

[JsARCLIGHT]

I have shot my fair share of Ruger Minis and Autos... they are all about the same. I was never a fan of the Ruger Mini 14 action myself... it is basically a teeny tiny copy of the M1A/M14 action and design (with subtle changes). Remember that the Mini-14 comes in several differet "flavors" at the moment such as the classic Mini 14, the stainless and the all weather. You can also lump the derivative Ruger Ranch rifle in this pile as it is based off of Mini-14 design and shares a lot of things in common (but notice that the Ranch is a totally different rifle and will not accept some of the parts the Minis take). Then you have your Mini-30 which is the same thing as the 14 just chambered in the eastern bloc 7.62x39. Here is my pro/con opinion of the Rugers:

Pros:

- compared to most AR15s (the rifle most people compare the Mini to) they are cheap and relatively easy to get ahold of

- they have a wide variety of aftermarket parts and accessories

- they are light, easy to use and quite reliable

- ammo is cheap (for all makes)

- if you live in Kalifornia then the Mini-14 is as close to a decent rifle as you can legally get for less than a grand

Cons:

- Mini-14 magazines are more expensive on average than their AR15 brothers

- I have heard of people having problems with the finish wearing badly on some of the models

- Some people have a hard time with the military style peep apeture so you might want to switch it out for one of the aftermarket notch style if you have trouble with accuracy

- getting a good scope mount is expensive, the cheap scope mounts have a tendancy to wiggle loose durring shooting

My Opinion:

While the Minis are good, stable guns they are very pedestrian in their common configurations and are a bit "classic" and stodgy for some people. They seem to marry the old wood stocked hunting rifle of yesteryear with the modern high capacity self loading assault rifle of today but in the process the gun does neither well. Some of the more rare pre-ban versions of the Mini like the Police issued ones and the carbines with their unique side-folding metal stocks and pistol grips can be great investment pieces and a blast to shoot. Even more fun are the rare automatic versions. My verdict is: if you don't like the AR15 or feel put off by their "evil looks" like some people are, the Minis are the next step on the ladder. Dependable, rugged and accurate they will make you happy... if you like their looks and feel.

[Opus]

cool, since this thread is back, I wanted to ask some "expert" opinions. Does anyone own a ruger mini-14 or mini-30 and whats thier opinion of it, Im kinda leaning twards the 14 as a plinker or the 30 for the NATO round and a bigger hit, that is the nato round isnt it, along with the .223 in the 14,,,,,this will be right after i buy the DE.50 (didnt realize how much cash I had without 2 house payments and loans)

I have both guns. The best thing about them is that thier easy to maintain. The 14 is the better of the two. I would avoid the 30 if I were you. Mine is very fickle and jams up alot. The 30 uses the 7.62x39 ammo where as the NATO round is 7.62x61. I'd suggest you get an M1 carbine instead. It's the action the minis are based on but a much better gun.

[pfunk]

so the general consecess is the AR15

[JsARCLIGHT]

Being the proud owner of several ARs, I must say that they are very different weapons than the Ruger Minis... they just shoot the same caliber of ammo and most people lump them together as being two sides of the same coin. A quality AR15 will set you back a lot of money compared to a Mini but there are more accessories at cheaper prices... such as mags, stocks and grips.

If possible try to shoot either of them before buying as the proof if you will like them or not is in the use...

... unless you are in Kalifornia, then kiss your dreams of a legal affordable AR15 goodbye right now... 'cause we all know those evil, evil assault rifles can kill you ten times faster than a Ruger Mini-14... that has the same caliber... and the same rate of fire... and the same magazine capacity... and the same features... yet is still legal in Kalifornia...

[Opus]

so the general consecess is the AR15

The AR-15/M-16 blows goats. There are lots of better rifles out there that can be had for a fraction of the price. The HK G3 and FN-FAL come to mind and if you want to spend some cash you can get an M-96 or my favorite the M1A(semi auto M-14).

[JsARCLIGHT]

The AR15 always seems to get a raw deal... you can't compare an AR15 to a M14 or a FN-FAL, they are different weapons made from different military doctrines. Just because the military retired the M14 in favor of the M16 does not make them similair guns. The AR15/M16 is a low caliber superlight short range suppression weapon that had a rediculously high rate of fire designed to allow a soldier to carry tons of ammo and lay down huge volleys of fire in close quarters engagements... basically it was a gun designed to fight the kind of war in Vietnam that we needed it to fight. The M14 and everything that came before it was part of the old army doctrine of long range accuracy with a heavy slug that will cut a man in half... that sort of weapon was pretty much useless in a close quarters man war like 'Nam.

I prefer the AR15 to the M1A just because it is so light and nible I can hit snap targets with it with ease rather than trying to swing that phone pole of a gun around and then get my sight picture back when it discharges... but that is personal preference. I prefer the lighter faster AR15 to the heaver more powerful M1A... but they are not in the same family any more so they cannot be compared apples to apples. There is a reason why the armed forces still has a lot of M14s in active duty right now, they fill a different role that the M16A2 cannot: the long range accuracy weapon. But when it comes down to warfare (for which both weapons where made) almost all real engagements and kills come within 200 yards and they come from suppressive fire or combined fields of fire. New machines for a new era of close combat warfare.

What does all this mean to the civilain shooter? Absolutely dick. Buy whichever rifle you feel comfortable shooting and you can afford the cost of the weapon and it's upkeep.

[Opus]

Everything you say is true but having carried an M-14 into combat I'm going to have to (forgive the pun) stick to my guns. And yes I'm biased.

[bsu legato]

Just save yourself all the grief and buy an M1 Garand from the CMP.

[Mechamaniac]

The AR15 always seems to get a raw deal... you can't compare an AR15 to a M14 or a FN-FAL, they are different weapons made from different military doctrines. Just because the military retired the M14 in favor of the M16 does not make them similair guns. The AR15/M16 is a low caliber superlight short range suppression weapon that had a rediculously high rate of fire designed to allow a soldier to carry tons of ammo and lay down huge volleys of fire in close quarters engagements... basically it was a gun designed to fight the kind of war in Vietnam that we needed it to fight. The M14 and everything that came before it was part of the old army doctrine of long range accuracy with a heavy slug that will cut a man in half... that sort of weapon was pretty much useless in a close quarters man war like 'Nam.

I prefer the AR15 to the M1A just because it is so light and nible I can hit snap targets with it with ease rather than trying to swing that phone pole of a gun around and then get my sight picture back when it discharges... but that is personal preference. I prefer the lighter faster AR15 to the heaver more powerful M1A... but they are not in the same family any more so they cannot be compared apples to apples. There is a reason why the armed forces still has a lot of M14s in active duty right now, they fill a different role that the M16A2 cannot: the long range accuracy weapon. But when it comes down to warfare (for which both weapons where made) almost all real engagements and kills come within 200 yards and they come from suppressive fire or combined fields of fire. New machines for a new era of close combat warfare.

As a former M60 gunner, I can say that I would prefer a better made, higher caliber weapon like the HK G3. Give me a moderately large rifle that shoots a man's bullet. I don't need light, I can heft whatever you give me, and have done so many times. Nothing like being ordered to advance (which means run), and give suppression fire when you're humping a belt fed machine gun that weighs 28 pounds by itself, and you can only hold it with one arm, because you need the other to properly feed the ammo belt.

Now, the FN-FAL is a bit too long for me, but I would take an HK G3 chambered in 7.62 x 51MM NATO over that glorified 22 that is the AR15 any day.

I don't have anything against the AR15 design, well, yeah, I actually do...

Like the ultra flimsy gas tube, and itty bitty loseable pins that you have to dick with to field strip it. Compared to the AK-47 or 74 which can be completely field stripped by a chimpanzee in about 3 seconds flat, and driven over by a truck, filled with mud, and will still work.

Now, that is a whole other issue, the AR-15 is a quality weapon which encounters problems due to it's small parts and design inherent vulnerabilities, whereas the AK is a mass produced stamped metal workhorse. And then there's the issue of military doctrines, better trained US Army with a better weapon vs a conscripted Soviet army with a mass produced weapon.

In the end, I will probably never have to fire another shot in anger using one of these rifles, but if the balloon goes up, and it's me vs the local warlord who wants to bugger me or my wife and kids, I'd rather have the big caliber weapon, so I can blow him away further away, or blow parts off of him up close.