JsARCLIGHT Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 In the end it's all a cartoon, all that matters is what you see on screen and how you the viewer feel about it. There is no "truth" in any of this, as with all science fiction the "truth" changes from year to year, project to project. Something new is created that screws up the lineage of something and alters what once was "the truth" into something new. For all expectation the truth is what the viewer sees it to be because it is constantly in flux. The glory of cartoons is that they can be anything their creators want them to be... hence why you can have old designs radically change in scope and ability over time or between projects and the creators can go back and add or alter their old designs to better adapt to the new things they make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsu legato Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 Some people here really need to look up the phrase "suspension of disbelief." You can accept transforming jet fighters combatting a race of giants from the other side of the galaxy, but the notion of more than one variable fighter under development at one time is a deal breaker? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 Some people here really need to look up the phrase "suspension of disbelief." You can accept transforming jet fighters combatting a race of giants from the other side of the galaxy, but the notion of more than one variable fighter under development at one time is a deal breaker? There is no way that the UN, in those conditions, could afford to build two working prototypes of transforming jet fighters, one with nuclear engines, to combat a race of giants, genetically engineered by the same aliens that genetically engineered our ancestors, based on measurements from their battlefortress that crashed on Earth. It's just not economically viable. Especially when it ends up that we can just beat them with some teenage girls singing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr March Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 JsARCLIGHT and bsu legato are on the right track. It doesn't matter if these reasonable explanations which describe the VF-0 are true or not. What matters is they are reasonable and their opposite can't be disproven either (since you can't disprove the adsence of an explanation). As for the cost of building fighters, there are numerous countries building and developing fighters right now. If they all became a world government like the U.N. in Macross, the combined resources of these nations, now enjoying all the new technologies, economic growth and enhanced production capabilities that OverTechnology granted them, could have hundreds of simultaneous military projects underway. Hell, it's long been said the European Union would become the new super power if they ever got their crap together, because the combined economic power of all those countries would be more than any other single nation on the planet. If the U.N. World Government of Macross existed...look out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gian7675 Posted January 23, 2007 Author Share Posted January 23, 2007 Thanks for the inputs guys And special thanks to the MW member that posted the Scale comparison of the Zentraedi/armor and Valks/Micronians Darn anime mahic. Their smaller in the sketch but the same size when battling...geez.. Btw, so if the VF-0 is like a flying Fuel Tank, why don't they explode when they get hit? I assume that this is the same for the SV-51. Makes one wonder how the VF-0 that crashed near Shin and the girl he rescued was still able to operate after the explosion that killed the pilot Ans: Anime magic again? Well, I think that today's Anime are based on facts thus it's kind-off hard to believe that there no plausible/possible explanation for some things we see on certain Animes..especially Macross Zero which is made recently. Even if the creator didn't give an explanation...I think we can find a suitable explanation out there which would make sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sketchley Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 There is no way that the UN, in those conditions, could afford to build two working prototypes (...) Huh? I'm just curious - did you read the link to the Macross Compendium? Even easier, the quotes I provided of the article? And I'm curious - what conditions? Does being an amalgamation of economies multiple times larger than the G8 with all the resources of the member countries available and focused towards projects somehow reduce productivity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briscojr84 Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 JsARCLIGHT and bsu legato are on the right track. It doesn't matter if these reasonable explanations which describe the VF-0 are true or not. What matters is they are reasonable and their opposite can't be disproven either (since you can't disprove the adsence of an explanation). As for the cost of building fighters, there are numerous countries building and developing fighters right now. If they all became a world government like the U.N. in Macross, the combined resources of these nations, now enjoying all the new technologies, economic growth and enhanced production capabilities that OverTechnology granted them, could have hundreds of simultaneous military projects underway. Hell, it's long been said the European Union would become the new super power if they ever got their crap together, because the combined economic power of all those countries would be more than any other single nation on the planet. If the U.N. World Government of Macross existed...look out. Let's not forget they were also developing tons of other mecha, aircraft, ships, new equipment, and weapon systems during this time period, they probably had every known weapons and aerospace manufacturer and developer working on something throughout 2000 to the 2009 period. So there probably wouldn't be a problem with them manufacturing and testing two different variable fighters. As for the size of the UNS I'd say that would still depend on who was contributing troops to the cause, I'm sure most member nations kept their own armies and the UNS itself just started recruiting from those ranks and new enlistees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briscojr84 Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 Thanks for the inputs guys And special thanks to the MW member that posted the Scale comparison of the Zentraedi/armor and Valks/Micronians Darn anime mahic. Their smaller in the sketch but the same size when battling...geez.. Btw, so if the VF-0 is like a flying Fuel Tank, why don't they explode when they get hit? I assume that this is the same for the SV-51. Makes one wonder how the VF-0 that crashed near Shin and the girl he rescued was still able to operate after the explosion that killed the pilot Ans: Anime magic again? Well, I think that today's Anime are based on facts thus it's kind-off hard to believe that there no plausible/possible explanation for some things we see on certain Animes..especially Macross Zero which is made recently. Even if the creator didn't give an explanation...I think we can find a suitable explanation out there which would make sense Things don't always fireball when they crash or get shot up, as long as the structural integrity was intact they would be fine, I haven't seen all of MZero yet but the pilot may have just snapped is neck or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gian7675 Posted January 23, 2007 Author Share Posted January 23, 2007 Things don't always fireball when they crash or get shot up, as long as the structural integrity was intact they would be fine, I haven't seen all of MZero yet but the pilot may have just snapped is neck or something. If I'm not mistaken...the pilot walked out of the downed VF-0 and then there was an explotion behid him which blew him to oblivion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briscojr84 Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 If I'm not mistaken...the pilot walked out of the downed VF-0 and then there was an explotion behid him which blew him to oblivion. Like I said, I haven't seen the whole thing yet, and the way it was worded didn't quite explain the reason for the explosion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azrael Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 If I'm not mistaken...the pilot walked out of the downed VF-0 and then there was an explotion behid him which blew him to oblivion. That was from Nora shooting the ground, not his VF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr March Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 Even if the creator didn't give an explanation...I think we can find a suitable explanation out there which would make sense We have found reasonable explanations, they just haven't come from the horse's mouth so they are being nitpicked to death. Like JsARCLIGHT and bsu legato have already touched upon, the suspension of disbelief is the problem. Most of these responses are for the sake of disagreeing rather than any legitimate points IMO. Yes, there is a degree of retconn. No, it's not as extensive as the continuity gestapo thinks (I bow to Zinjo). Yes, the VF-0 is more than plausible utilizing a World Government Economy. And yes, eating yellow snow is bad for you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.V. Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 We have found reasonable explanations, they just haven't come from the horse's mouth so they are being nitpicked to death. Like JsARCLIGHT and bsu legato have already touched upon, the suspension of disbelief is the problem. Most of these responses are for the sake of disagreeing rather than any legitimate points IMO. Yes, there is a degree of retconn. No, it's not as extensive as the continuity gestapo thinks (I bow to Zinjo). Yes, the VF-0 is more than plausible utilizing a World Government Economy. And yes, eating yellow snow is bad for you! *chuckles* People.. it's just a show! I don't mind what Kawamori did with the VF-0, which is essentially a refined version of his VF-1. How couldn't he? 20 years on he isn't able to make a backwards design and feel good about it. I wouldn't, if only because it would make the currently designed mecha look even more dated than the VF-1 does today. Instead he designed the VF-0 to reasonably fit in the pre-existing continuity while still adhering to current and near future fighter developments.. just as he did 25 years ago with the development of the VF-1 for the anime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoveringCheesecake Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 (edited) Some people here really need to look up the phrase "suspension of disbelief." You can accept transforming jet fighters combatting a race of giants from the other side of the galaxy, but the notion of more than one variable fighter under development at one time is a deal breaker? Heaven forbid that anyone tries to have a serious discussion about an event that occured in the Macross universe! Shame shame. For a second I thought I was on a website dedicated to said universe... oh wait. And besides, I'm one of the people stepping out and saying retroactive continuity, but apparently people don't like that explanation so heaven forbid I or anyone else tries to figure out something plausible. Edited January 23, 2007 by meh_cd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 Huh? I'm just curious - did you read the link to the Macross Compendium? Even easier, the quotes I provided of the article? And I'm curious - what conditions? Does being an amalgamation of economies multiple times larger than the G8 with all the resources of the member countries available and focused towards projects somehow reduce productivity? Sorry sketchley. It was a joke and not in any way meant to be taken seriously, any part of it. GEEZ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sketchley Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 Jokes don't work well in text... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macross73 Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 Is that the official "Height" of a Zent soldier. I only ask b/c i was thinking of making/modding some figs to make Zent soldiers. I was going to use some 1/6 soldiers but I guess they're to tall. Guess I'll use some 9 inch tall figures. I was under the impression that the'yre just as tall if not taller than a VF-1. Especially in the seen where Max saves Hikaru and the rest from being captives on the Zent ship. When he shoots the Zent soldier they're the same height. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phyrox Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 It's logical that if you're small (humans), and you have a big enemy(Zentraedi), at least you'll want to be the same height (or bigger than) as your enemy so thus the Battroids was made to the height of the Zentraedi. I don't think this is very logical at all actually. I mean, within the "macross universe" we are to assume that this is logical, but for real world military engagments large size is not really desirable...neither is hand-to-hand combat the vast majority of the time. Huge robots that turn into fighter jets are cool as hell, don't get me wrong. But if earth was really invaded by 50' tall anatomically human aliens, the LAST thing I would want to combat them would be 50' tall robots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr March Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 (edited) Is that the official "Height" of a Zent soldier. Yes, that's the official size of a Zentradi. Zentradi would not fit inside a 15 meter Battle Pod if they were 13 meters tall. Even at the official height of 8.5 meters it's a stretch for a Zentradi to cram himself into that Battle Pod cockpit, but it's possible with very little room left to spare. Remember, Britai has always been far larger than the average Zentradi. SDF Macross shows him towering over the other Zentradi soldiers and he is only a touch higher than a Valkyrie. Here is the official size comparison chart for SDF Macross (taken for Macross Perfect Memory). Notice the picture of Kamjin at the far right end and compare to the size of the Reguld and Kamjin's Glaug Battle Pod. Edited January 24, 2007 by Mr March Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 I don't think this is very logical at all actually. I mean, within the "macross universe" we are to assume that this is logical, but for real world military engagments large size is not really desirable...neither is hand-to-hand combat the vast majority of the time. Huge robots that turn into fighter jets are cool as hell, don't get me wrong. But if earth was really invaded by 50' tall anatomically human aliens, the LAST thing I would want to combat them would be 50' tall robots. I'd want 100 foot tall robots myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB0 Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 I'd want 100 foot tall robots myself. Preferably with lion heads and giant swords. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Final Vegeta Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 (edited) Btw, so if the VF-0 is like a flying Fuel Tank, why don't they explode when they get hit? Technically, for everything to burn oxygen is required. If we take a mass of fuel placed in a tank, only the more external fuel can mix with oxygen and ignite. As long as there is fuel there can be burning, but it doesn't mean there will be always an explosion, and I think there can't be an explosion of all the fuel simultaneously. This is why in fuel/air bombs fuel is sprayed to allow large percentages of fuel to mix with oxygen, and therefore there is a big explosion. Don't believe everything you see in movies. FV Edited January 24, 2007 by Final Vegeta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpacyAce2012 Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 Am I the only person that never felt the VF-0 looked more modern? Nope. To me, the VF-0 only looks more modern in Fighter Config. In GERWALK it doesn't. And in Battroid, it looks like a clunker compared to the VF-1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gian7675 Posted January 24, 2007 Author Share Posted January 24, 2007 We have found reasonable explanations, they just haven't come from the horse's mouth so they are being nitpicked to death. Whoops! Let me rephrase that. The explanations that our fellow MW members presented are reasonable enough for me and thus has satisfied my query Didn't realize that it sounded that I'm not satisfied with the explanations given in my previous post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s001 Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 Nope. To me, the VF-0 only looks more modern in Fighter Config. In GERWALK it doesn't. And in Battroid, it looks like a clunker compared to the VF-1. Personally I think, that Kawamori designed the vf-0 starting exactly from the same idea of which the vf-1 was born, but at a different time and with all of his later designs like reference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAD Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 Of course, nobody has mentioned the active stealth systems that both the VF-0 and the SV-51 had, which don't show up again until M+... (Not that they really seemed to do much, everybody always found everybody in the end, in M0.) ~Luke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sketchley Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 If I'm not mistaken, the active stealth only effected non-OT equipped equipment. I think it's safe to say that after Macross Zero, and until Macross Plus, it was difficult for non-OTEC equipment to detect equipment based on OTEC - given that the main opponents of the period all had OTEC based equipment, it's a mute point. Macross Plus marks the date that active stealth was finally able to work against equipment based on OTEC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zinjo Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 And besides, I'm one of the people stepping out and saying retroactive continuity, but apparently people don't like that explanation so heaven forbid I or anyone else tries to figure out something plausible. Well considering Macross is the poster child of retcon, I think a few need to relax.... The continuity has been "adjusted" for decades, so Mac Zero is simply par for the course, not some shocking new development as some might want us to believe. Personally I welcome it. It makes more sense to me than having all this OTEC floating around and it only being available to one side and only revealed on the day of the Macross launch. Essentially Mac Zero makes a more reasonable presumption that the technology would leak out and be used against the UNG, thus escalating an already tenuous world situation. I may not agree with some of the details in the "amendments" but in a general sense I like it from a story point of view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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