Mephistopheles Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 But this mystical energy is directly influenced by chemical secretations in our brains and thus all the enemy really needs to do is reproduce these chemicals and insert them into monkeys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GutsAndCasca Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Then the monkeys could fling spiritia at them. See, it's just like my colon thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emajnthis Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 After watching a hand full of Mac7 Episodes, i get the same vibe from this series as from when my wife made me watch a million episodes of sailor moon. Monsters go after life energy for some evil plot, they get foiled most of the time, and the characters grow along the way. Very child oriented from what i grasp thus far. Even the concept of energy is seemingly synonymous just with different express points (sailor moon was "love" spiritual energy, Mac7 is "music" spiritual energy). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 But this mystical energy is directly influenced by chemical secretations in our brains and thus all the enemy really needs to do is reproduce these chemicals and insert them into monkeys. 415225[/snapback] Y'know, I can't tell whether you're being facetious or not. So, at the risk of continuing to play the straight man here... What I'm reading is that, since emotional state affects Spiritia, and emotional states, as humans feel them, are associated with a wide variety of chemical responses in the brain, therefore these chemicals are responsible for Spiritia. The flaw in this reasoning is that while emotions affect Spiritia, emotions do not create Spiritia. Spiritia is, according to Macross 7, a life energy that exists at least in all sentient beings (maybe in all life forms... I don't remember if that was the case or not). Emotion effects the level of Spiritia, but is not responsible for its existence in the first place. A person drained of Spiritia is left incapable of feeling emotion (or of any independent thought at all), but that does not mean that person's brain has been sucked dry of all chemicals, or that the chemical receptors have been damaged, or that any other physiological effect has occurred. This goes back to the triggers of emotion. Even though chemicals cause the associated feelings, and you can artificially create feelings through chemical manipulation, science is still fuzzy on the brain activity that triggers emotion in the first place. Two people listen to the same song... one person gets happy, the other sad. Why? Even though chemicals are responsible for the actual feeling, the activity that triggered the chemical release is something else. Chemical transmission is the cause of emotional feeling, but not the root of all emotion itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightning Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 (edited) -snip-Maybe the speaker pod hijacks the radio of the ship it hits? *really reaching* 415040[/snapback] edit: i forgot to read today's posts...lol. I can work with that, and then maybe transmits it to all the ships that the PD had? Edited July 11, 2006 by Lightning 06 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zinjo Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 But this mystical energy is directly influenced by chemical secretations in our brains and thus all the enemy really needs to do is reproduce these chemicals and insert them into monkeys. 415225[/snapback] That's where the PD went wrong. No one would have sent in Max in a VF-22 for a farm of Monkeys... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mephistopheles Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Even so, spiritia doesn't seem to be a very good source of energy. You have to fight for it, it relies on contact with other species or the farming there of and it takes up a buttload of time and space to harvest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB0 Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 -snip-Maybe the speaker pod hijacks the radio of the ship it hits? *really reaching* 415040[/snapback] edit: i forgot to read today's posts...lol. I can work with that, and then maybe transmits it to all the ships that the PD had? 415253[/snapback] The Bodol fleet, destroyed, the varauta defeated soundly, the protdeviln converted to good... all because the protoculture never invented a mute button. Even so, spiritia doesn't seem to be a very good source of energy. You have to fight for it, it relies on contact with other species or the farming there of and it takes up a buttload of time and space to harvest. 415268[/snapback] Yeah. But when you gotta eat, you gotta eat. Remember, the PD were using it as food. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Even so, spiritia doesn't seem to be a very good source of energy. You have to fight for it, it relies on contact with other species or the farming there of and it takes up a buttload of time and space to harvest. 415268[/snapback] No arguments there. That's one of the Protodeviln's biggest flaws. That's why they ended up in Spiritia-deprived comas until that Megaroad fleet came along. As far as I understand it, the whole Spiritia-vampire thing was not a function intended by the Protocultures, but the result of entities from the sub-universe possessing their genetically engineered weapons. The entities require Spiritia in order to remain in our universe, although exactly why they want to stay here is anyone's guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Not to remain in our universe, to survive. It was the Protoculture who brought them here with all their war-mongering expieriments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB0 Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Not to remain in our universe, to survive. It was the Protoculture who brought them here with all their war-mongering expieriments. 415391[/snapback] Even if the project had been intended for peaceful purposes, the accident still could have happened, and likely WOULD have as they attempted to find the limits of the organs. It was a quest for the perfect power source. No fuel, no mess, no heat. Just free energy. The fact that it was tapped for weapons first is almost tangental. It would have become the backbone of the protoculture civilization if it had worked out instead of blowing up in their face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimlockCW Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 (edited) Sorry, but I think this has a place in this thread after having read most of it, I ain't seen it yet. Far be it from my newbie arse to argue with anyone here so this is my only intervention Mac7 is a SHOW people! Love it, Hate it, it's still there and won't be going anywhere anytime soon So same differance in this just replace comic with TV show Edit: Disclaimer! I don't know where I found that, or when, or from who. So I'll take nothing for the image's existance. Edited July 12, 2006 by Roy Focker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mephistopheles Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 sry, but i think this has a place in this thread after having read most of it, i ain't seen it yet.far be it from my newb arse to argue with anyone here so this is my only intervention Mac7 is a SHOW people! Love it, Hate it, its still there and won't be going anywhere anytime soon so same differance in this just replace comic with TV show Edit: disclaimer! i dunno where i found that, or when, or from whome. So i'll take nadda for the images existance 415479[/snapback] Everyone here knows that it was a fictional TV show. We aren't arguing that. We aren't arguing that it is going somewhere either. We are arguing about whether or not the show was actually good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 (edited) Not to remain in our universe, to survive. It was the Protoculture who brought them here with all their war-mongering expieriments. 415391[/snapback] Even if the project had been intended for peaceful purposes, the accident still could have happened, and likely WOULD have as they attempted to find the limits of the organs. It was a quest for the perfect power source. No fuel, no mess, no heat. Just free energy. The fact that it was tapped for weapons first is almost tangental. It would have become the backbone of the protoculture civilization if it had worked out instead of blowing up in their face. 415396[/snapback] Although, perhaps the Protodeviln wouldn't have been quite as much of a problem if the entities had only been able to possess a big, fat, immobile reactor instead of engineered bodies with heads and limbs and vast destructive powers. You do bring an interesting note about the power source. Our current understanding of physics tells us that energy can't be created or destroyed, so sucking it out of the sub-universe would imply that either the laws of conservation are multi-versal, meaning that we can also make energy seem to "vanish" from our universe by shunting it into another sub-universe (maybe that's where the SDF-1's fold engine went...), or that we don't know as much as we think we know. (Or, to cover GrimlockCW's point, that it's a cartoon and therefore physics doesn't apply... but what fun is that?) Oops... killed another cat girl. Don't worry though... they'll draw more. Edited July 12, 2006 by Penguin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB0 Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 World needs less catgirls anyways. Although, perhaps the Protodeviln wouldn't have been quite as much of a problem if the entities had only been able to possess a big, fat, immobile reactor instead of engineered bodies with heads and limbs and vast destructive powers. "You better feed me souls, or I'm gonna cause a blackout! And then my cousin in your radio will cause bad reception!" You do bring an interesting note about the power source. Our current understanding of physics tells us that energy can't be created or destroyed, so sucking it out of the sub-universe would imply that either the laws of conservation are multi-versal, meaning that we can also make energy seem to "vanish" from our universe by shunting it into another sub-universe (maybe that's where the SDF-1's fold engine went...), or that we don't know as much as we think we know. Yah. I assume that drawing energy out of the protodevlin's native universe to do work was pumping something from our universe back in, just because that's how other apparent loopholes in the laws of thermodynamics work. And I think there's implication already that the SDF fold generator "fell through." We know it left a big swirly mass of energy with unusual properties in it's place. Personally, I suspect the space fold makes use of the same universe, just for diffrent purposes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimlockCW Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 (edited) Everyone here knows that it was a fictional TV show. We aren't arguing that. We aren't arguing that it is going somewhere either. We are arguing about whether or not the show was actually good. 415503[/snapback] true, but i see alot of whining about sound waves in space, and controls of the valks and such, none of its possable, so why worry? its a ficitonal show! Basara controls the VF-19 in the OVA by hitting the controls with his guitar, why not just attach and go from there? as it appears in the main series? alot of good points, storywise i agree, mac 7 sux but fictionaly its on par with most anything released back then, and most anime in general as to weather it was good, its a matter of opinion, most people i know said the silent hill movie was awsome, but out of nowhere i heard someone say they wished they could get their money back. theres no point argueing something that becomes a solid matter of personal opinion. its like trying to get me to eat fresh tomato, no matter how much ya tell me its good for me, i still won't do it, cause i hate them. Edited July 12, 2006 by GrimlockCW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zinjo Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 The biggest thing about Mac 7 debates on this board is that they always burn themselves out eventually. The lovers will scrap with the haters and the middle grounders will either laugh at the insanity, try to throw our opinions in here and there or poke fun at the fanatics. It is all about personal taste and preferences. No one is wrong or right from that perspective, they just are. For all we know, the sponsors insisted on certain aspects for the series and the producers had to find ways to make it work. We all know that particularly in Japan, the show's sponsors hold the purse strings and thus can be the tail that wags the dog in many respects. So unless we get the chance to pick Kawamori's brain on the subject, we are going to be debating on a few topics about this show forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GutsAndCasca Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Please God, don't kill anymore cat girls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB0 Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Everyone here knows that it was a fictional TV show. We aren't arguing that. We aren't arguing that it is going somewhere either. We are arguing about whether or not the show was actually good. 415503[/snapback] true, but i see alot of whining about sound waves in space, and controls of the valks and such, none of its possable, so why worry? its a ficitonal show! But it's fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mephistopheles Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Cat girls deserve to die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GutsAndCasca Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Cat girls deserve to die. 415647[/snapback] *laughing* Seriously, that was funny. Meph, you deserve a high five. But if cat girls deserve to die, then so does everyone in firebomber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB0 Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Cat girls deserve to die. 415647[/snapback] *laughing* Seriously, that was funny. Meph, you deserve a high five. But if cat girls deserve to die, then so does everyone in firebomber. 415665[/snapback] Firebomber didn't have a single product of inter-genus crossbreeding in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Li Qin Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 (edited) Plus they play better than 90% of current pop bands out there today. If you go to watch Macross 7 for Mecha action you will be dissapointed. If you watch Macross 7 for the music and you can enjoy it then it's not that bad. It also has some great moments to laugh at. I also lump song energy in the Ki/Chi, life energy, force section. And these things do exist in real life, what they really are I haven't seen anything that properly defines them so my guess is it's some senses we don't know, after all there are supposed to be 9 dimensions and we only know of 4. Edited July 13, 2006 by Li Qin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimlockCW Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Cat girls deserve to die. 415647[/snapback] *laughing* Seriously, that was funny. Meph, you deserve a high five. But if cat girls deserve to die, then so does everyone in firebomber. 415665[/snapback] Firebomber didn't have a single product of inter-genus crossbreeding in it. 415739[/snapback] Mylene doesn't count? hmm then agian, considering the said origins of the meltran/zentran and humans.. guess that doesn't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Note to the person who started this thread regarding the title: - A 'dam' is a barrier constructed to contain the flow of water or to keep out the sea, it is not an expletive! Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimlockCW Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Note to the person who started this thread regarding the title: -A 'dam' is a barrier constructed to contain the flow of water or to keep out the sea, it is not an expletive! Graham 415791[/snapback] ..................... ROFLMAO sry, that was just out of nowhere... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zinjo Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 If you go to watch Macross 7 for Mecha action you will be dissapointed. If you watch Macross 7 for the music and you can enjoy it then it's not that bad. It also has some great moments to laugh at. This is very true. The mecha action against giant space monsters is disappointing on several levels, not just the premise. The music does grow on you and there definitely are funny moments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GutsAndCasca Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Note to the person who started this thread regarding the title: -A 'dam' is a barrier constructed to contain the flow of water or to keep out the sea, it is not an expletive! Graham 415791[/snapback] .... I could write something about damming the flow of spiritia coming out of Firebombers songs but I'll refrain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimlockCW Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 (edited) i have a dumb question, i finaly finished the whole series, my original opinions stand. love or hate its still there. where does the movie fit in?! let alone the OVA, this has to be the first OVA that looked like it had a place in the series i've ever seen honestly... but ignoring that, the movie, where does that seriously come in? i feel like i watched through and missed where i was supposed to fit it in i actually liked the OVA though.. least i thaught Elma was kewl, her sis was a prewd, but she was pretty kewl, compared to Mylene. i mean, no intro, she just shows up out of nowhere holding a glow lamp with a dumbfounded look on her face.... Edited July 13, 2006 by GrimlockCW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azrael Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 where does the movie fit in?! let alone the OVA, this has to be the first OVA that looked like it had a place in the series i've ever seen honestly... but ignoring that, the movie, where does that seriously come in? 415920[/snapback] Newbie question!!!! http://macross.anime.net/story/chronology/2040/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimlockCW Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 (edited) where does the movie fit in?! let alone the OVA, this has to be the first OVA that looked like it had a place in the series i've ever seen honestly... but ignoring that, the movie, where does that seriously come in? 415920[/snapback] Newbie question!!!! http://macross.anime.net/story/chronology/2040/index.html 415933[/snapback] WOOT! you bet! <--- cannon fodder see! so where my crap smothered looking 1A? though this seems wrong "Basara folds to a planet inhabited by U.N. colonists and encounters an unknown mecha." seeing as Pedro called it before Basara did, so it obviously wasn't exactly unknown. Edited July 13, 2006 by GrimlockCW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomake Wan Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 (edited) Cat girls deserve to die. 415647[/snapback] Hater. I just needed to correct something left uncorrected... the speaker pods shot from Basara (and others') guns are just that--speaker pods. Invented prior to this whole discovery of Spiritia/Song Energy. I'm fairly certain that that Dr. Chiba's lack of knowledge about Basara is proof enough that he didn't invent the speaker pods. And it clearly shows--repeatedly--that when the speaker pod hits an enemy craft, it buries itself into the frame, seals the fissure created (effectively sealing it in place, as well) then transmits Basara's transmission through a speaker mounted on it straight into the frame/cockpit. Thus, it wouldn't matter if you tore the radio system out of the enemy craft--the speaker pod is totally separate. If you're talking about the sound boosters, though, then JB0 had it right--they don't actually focus on transmitting sound waves themselves, but rather amplifying the Spiritia released by the pilot of the Sound Boosted craft. The vest (that silver thing the band members wear) allows for a more focused Spiritia transmission, while the boosters amplify and then transmit (or "fire," if you'd prefer a weapons-grade term) the Spiritia energy at the intended target(s). I once role-played in a SRW setting as one of Fire Bomber. Quite fun to take on a Zeon fleet using song. But yeah. Pretty neat concept... I think of it as an extension of the "Minmei System" thing used in Macross II. Yeah, I know that isn't canon. But it's a similar concept--using song as a focused enemy deterrent rather than as a "what's this? Singing makes them pause?" thing like in SDF Macross/DYRL. Also, I don't think that Macross 7 itself had enough "adult" situations to dismiss a target audience of young children. The Dynamite OVA, on the other hand... well, the Japanese culture is quite different from an American culture. They don't really have that, "Heavens! Young children cannot watch this slightly racy stuff!" mentality as far as I know. Edited July 13, 2006 by Nomake Wan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 (edited) Also, I don't think that Macross 7 itself had enough "adult" situations to dismiss a target audience of young children. The Dynamite OVA, on the other hand... well, the Japanese culture is quite different from an American or British culture (well, any English culture, it would seem). They don't really have that, "Heavens! Young children cannot watch this slightly racy stuff!" mentality as far as I know. 415958[/snapback] I won't respond to that directly, 'cause it might lead to a forbidden political discussion , but let me just say that all English-speaking cultures do not have the same point of view regarding sex and violence in media. Have you ever watched "Benny Hill"? Edited July 13, 2006 by Penguin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomake Wan Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 (edited) No, I haven't--only heard the theme song. XP I apologize for making a mass assumption. That was an ass thing to do. When you assume things you make an "A" out of "ss" and... "um-e" or... something... Previous post edited to create a more accurate argument. Edited July 13, 2006 by Nomake Wan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB0 Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Cat girls deserve to die. 415647[/snapback] *laughing* Seriously, that was funny. Meph, you deserve a high five. But if cat girls deserve to die, then so does everyone in firebomber. 415665[/snapback] Firebomber didn't have a single product of inter-genus crossbreeding in it. 415739[/snapback] Mylene doesn't count? hmm then agian, considering the said origins of the meltran/zentran and humans.. guess that doesn't 415784[/snapback] I said inter-genus. The zentradi are pretty clearly filable in the genus homo. Potentially, they're actually a subspecies of homo sapiens. I don't believe there's any quarter-zentradi in the continuity yet. That would establish both humans and zentradi as the same species(if 2 animals can interbreed and the resultant offspring isn't sterile, they're considered to be the same species). The obvious size variance is of little consequence, amazingly. For a real-world example, a chihuahua and a great dane are both members of canis lupus(specifically, the subspecies canis lupus familiaris). The zentradi could probably be classified as homo sapiens based on other characteristics, but people would likely be unwilling to do so. The interbreeding capacity MAKES them accept it, as I understand things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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