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Transformers Thread 2

Dangard Ace

By Dangard Ace
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Phyrox Bridge Bunny

Phyrox

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...than people could start believing in it and taking it more seriously

Don't think this is gonna happen.

Any series, movie, or whatever based on a sometimes cool, often mediocre toy line is never gonna be taken seriously. And I imagine never believed in to any degree.

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Twoducks New Edwards Test Pilot

Twoducks

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I like what you say LowViz. Maybe the movie will go in a similar way.

And when constucticons combine, instead of jumping in the air, they need a giant robot the size of starscream to manually grab each robot and put it together. :D Once done, megatron can transform into the gun that devastator uses. (rather than the transformation of megatron being a disguise, it becomes a function of another giant scale robot)

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The image of a Decepticon manually putting together Devastator is just funny.

Sound Wave and his tapes would be so cute. Bet they would be scared of Gundam kits at first :lol:

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1/1 LowViz Lurker SMS Squadron Leader

1/1 LowViz Lurker

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Posted (edited)
Sound Wave and his tapes would be so cute. Bet they would be scared of Gundam kits at first.

I've thought about this:

Soundwave himself would actually be a normal robot that uses laser beak to spy on the enemy as a tiny drone (just like in the animated movie) and can control laser beak remotely. Rather than an 80s cassette player, he would transform into a yf21 or spyplane or something cool that you'd want to see as a toy. :D (you can never have too many flying vehicles)

Edited by 1/1 LowViz Lurker
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Black Valkyrie BOMBA!

Black Valkyrie

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I think the problem with TF is by being a cartoon it doesn't have to explain all the shrinking and stuff.

What they need to do for the movie is remake the entire franchise from the ground up as a standalone movie seperate from the cartoon or whatever fans think of as the canon.

So instead of having the robots go back to normal size (ie starscream shrinking) let them be a giant robot and not afraid to have various sizes of decepticons rather than trying to make them stay to scale with the autobots. (who when they transform from car to robot stay roughly normal size)

If star scream wants to fight in robot mode he has to go outside as a giant but suffer from being massive and slow. (like the dinobots who given thier size and heavy weapons, you wouldn't want indoors anyway)

Have it so that if they want to walk around digsuised amoungst humans they just upload thier consciousness into a humanoid-like robot body. (gits style) This way they have more than one way of diguise apart from being stuck inside thier vehicle bodies or the robot mode of that body. (they can have replacement forms sort of like the way skynet takes control of all sorts of weapons in terminator) As long as people remember that the TF mistakened human vehicles as the native aliens living on earth, this is a plausible explanation for why they began to be vehicles instead of humanoid sized robots.(like the terminators)

This way Megatron could still be a giant robot gun that Devastator grabs in his hand to fire, without the need for shrinking. (because the transformers use all sizes of machines)

And when constucticons combine, instead of jumping in the air, they need a giant robot the size of starscream to manually grab each robot and put it together. :D Once done, megatron can transform into the gun that devastator uses. (rather than the transformation of megatron being a disguise, it becomes a function of another giant scale robot)

I always hated the nonvehicular transformers that kept changing size.

I think that from now on: the robot mode is not thier normal body (transformers backstory should be that they evolved from nanotech viruses that aliens invented or something) but rather it is merely thier preffered "soldier" form.

While their vehicle mode is more thier specialised combat form (think of all the gadgets in the james bond cars) rather than just a disguise alone. If the TF universe was remade to be more realistic from the cartoon version (which itself was hamstrung by the fact that the toys themselves were just toys without being designed for a backstory) then people could start believing in it and taking it more seriously.

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Did you watch Transformers- Masterforce if not then I think you should watch it cuz all bot in this show stay to the actual size no shrinking method.

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Veritas Global's Pipe Holder

Veritas

Posted
Posted (edited)

Found this link on Tfans:

THS-02 Auction (check the last picture)

The whole thing takes a little while to load, but the bottom picture of the auction (which loaded for me suprisingly fast) has a cleared up picture of the MP-03 Starscream insert that comes with THS-02 Hybrid Prime. Nothing new, but it's still good to see it without those scribbly black lines over his face and body.

Edited by Veritas
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UN Spacy Super Dimension Member

UN Spacy

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Found this link on Tfans:

THS-02 Auction (check the last picture)

The whole thing takes a little while to load, but the bottom picture of the auction (which loaded for me suprisingly fast) has a cleared up picture of the MP-03 Starscream insert that comes with THS-02 Hybrid Prime.  Nothing new, but it's still good to see it without those scribbly black lines over his face and body.

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B))B))B))B))B))B))B))

I have a feeling MP-3 will be a big seller.

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Renato Galactic Diva

Renato

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PS : I know Graham doesn`t like TF but do you think he`ll get this one cuz its design by Kawamori ?

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He passed on the Aquarion and I think I heard he only got a couple of the Eureka7 toys cos they were cheap or something, so I really, really doubt it.

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Radd SMS Squadron Leader

Radd

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I doubt it. He didn't seem to be too into Kawamori's Eureka 7 or Aquarion designs. And while this Prime has a great robot mode for a Transformer, it's vehicle mode is lacking.

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Fit For Natalie Global's Pipe Holder

Fit For Natalie

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That however has been the trend in TF's for many years.  Better robots at the severe expense of alt mode, ESPECIALLY for real-life vehicles. 

Just makes me appreciate Kawamori all the more.  While his planes are fake, they are very nice and plausible, and not big round fat cargo planes which carry 3/4 of the robot inside the cargo bay, which is all Hasbro/Takara seem to be able to design any more.

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*looks at the transformers of the past 5 years*

I don't think TFs are designed 'at the severe expense of the alt modes'. After all, they begin with the alt mode, and then try to figure out how they can turn it into a robot, and there are still plenty of fairly realistic-looking vehicle modes even in the mainlines of Armada, Energon and especially Cybertron.

The difference between Transformers and Kawamori's non-sentient mecha (and this goes for all the other japanese non-sentient mecha, too) is that TFs are living alien robots, with personality and character, whose ability to transform is not explained in the cartoon incarnations, and frankly, doesn't need to be explained. Hell, you don't even need to explain why there is living mechanical life out in space, either.

Sure, when you're a mecha designer for a typical japanese mecha anime where hot shot pilots and brooding villians sit inside a cockpit, you're going to try to figure out how it would work as a real mechanical vehicle to maintain the plausibility of a human-constructed device in a somewhat realistic fictional universe

But when you're designing an alien robot toy who doesn't need to conform to real-world physics or plausible engineering, why bother going to the trouble of 'plausibility'? Cybertron Jetfire was not meant to be an OMFG JAPANESE REALISTIC representation of a real-life cargo plane. He's meant to be a fun kids toy.

There are plenty of other realistic-looking vehicles in Cybertron, showing they can do realism in a kids-focused mainline, and they can do super-duper realistic accurate replicas in lines like Alternators. But its not called for in a kids line like Cybertron. Hasbro/Takara deal with several market groups with their Transformers, not a mainly collector-focused market like there is for Macross toys.

Besides, your comment of 'Better robots at the severe expense of alt mode, ESPECIALLY for real-life vehicles' is hilariously ironic given the horrible truck mode Kawamori designed for THS G1 Convoy.

I know what you mean, I`m also put off by it but remember also an episode when Sky/Jetfire carries the entire Autobots inside of him !

That`s why I prefer TF-Masterforce more logical robot sizes and IMO in some way the anime is more to the original Daiclone comics :  Humans piloting the bots but as power supply units, logic robot size and the beastbots are from the Decepticons/Destrons like in the original comic the Dinobots were from the bad guys.

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The irony there is that the Diaclone toys only gained mainstream popularity in Japan once Takara imported the toys back as Transformers, as well as dubbing the US cartoon series.

Additionally, interest in Transformers in Japan started to drop off when japanese writers took over the animated series (beginning with Headmasters) when Hasbro ended the US TF cartoon. There is a distinct difference between the US series and the Japanese series that followed it, and I believe the japanese audience took note of this change.

This happened during Beast Wars, too - the US/Canadian series was sucessful compared with Takara's home market to the anime mayhem that was the japanese-written Beast Wars the Second and Beast Wars Neo series.

That definately says something about the sucess of the Transformers in relation to the Western constribution and development of the series, as opposed to the difficulties Japan has with the concepts.

...than people could start believing in it and taking it more seriously

Don't think this is gonna happen.

Any series, movie, or whatever based on a sometimes cool, often mediocre toy line is never gonna be taken seriously. And I imagine never believed in to any degree.

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I don't think anybody believes in Macross, or Gundam or any other 'realistic' japanese mecha series, either. They'd be insane to believe in giant robots, no?

I think Transformers, popular as it is, is taken seriously as an american pop-culture icon and a serious money maker. With the upcomining movie, written by americans, hell, it might reignite Transformers popularity in Japan.

Some of you guys don't know how to have fun and suspend your disbelief ;)

Edited by Fit For Natalie
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Radd SMS Squadron Leader

Radd

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Eh, if there are any "realistic" designs in Energon, Armada, and the like, I've not seen them. I do appreciate the realistic look of the Alternators designs, though.

I understand what David is trying to say, most of the TF designs these days are pretty toy-ish looking, aside from the Alternators line. Brightly coloured, bulbous vehicles with little basis on realistic vehicle design asthetics. Most of Kawamori's Macross mecha do tend to look like something you could much more easily picture on a real life runway than your average Energon, Armada, or Galaxy Force design.

I wouldn't say all of Kawamori's designs are like that, though. His Aquarion and Eureka 7 designs, for example.

This new Prime toy, I'd wager that the lacking vehicle mode can be blamed on the size of the toy, combined with the emphasis on the robot mode Takara probably required of Kawamori. I imagine if Kawamori had been contracted to design the much larger 20th Anniversary Prime, we would have gotten a much nicer vehicle mode on that toy, and far and away better than the Hybrid Prime.

I don't think anybody believes in Macross, or Gundam or any other 'realistic' japanese mecha series, either. They'd be insane to believe in giant robots, no?

I don't think Phyrox was suggesting that.

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Twoducks New Edwards Test Pilot

Twoducks

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Too bad the THS-02 Optimus isn't available lose and has to come with the trailor. That just ups the price (and space) to much for me. A 4'' - 10 cm high Prime is just the right size for me.

Think it would be posible to resell just the trailor on ebay?

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Fit For Natalie Global's Pipe Holder

Fit For Natalie

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Eh, if there are any "realistic" designs in Energon, Armada, and the like, I've not seen them. I do appreciate the realistic look of the Alternators designs, though.

While not replicas, they are reasonably accurate to the real vehicles.

A. Red Alert = Mid-90s Nissan Patrol

A. Side Swipe = Early 90s Nissan Skyline. Sure his robot mode blows.

E. Hot Shot = Aston Martin Vanquish

E. Downshift = Cadillac Sixteen concept

E. Plane dudes whose names I can't remember = A-10 Thunderbolt

E. Blight and Kickback = Tunguska M1 Low level air defence system

C. Hot Shot = Chrysler ME Four-Twelve

C. Thundercracker = SU-37 Super Flanker

C. Red Alert = Dodge Magnum

C. Downshift = Various 70s muscle cars

C. Crosswise = Bugatti Veyron

C. Armorhide = Volvo cab over truck of which I am unaware of the exact model

C. Runabout/Runamuck = Nissan Skyline

C. Cybertron Defence Hot Shot = M1117 Security Vehicle

C. Cybertron Defence Red Alert = BTR-80 russian APC with giant missile from hell

Vehicles that are based upon real designs, but aren't close or OMFG realistic enough to be 'realistic':

E. Bulkhead = KA-52 Alligator

C. Wing Saber = A-10 Thunderbolt

C. Soundwave = Have Blue stealth bomber prototype

Vehicles that are fairly realistic but I am unaware of the exact real-world vehicle equivalents:

C. Evac = popular modern rescue Helicopter whose name escapes me.

I understand what David is trying to say, most of the TF designs these days are pretty toy-ish looking, aside from the Alternators line. Brightly coloured, bulbous vehicles with little basis on realistic vehicle design asthetics. Most of Kawamori's Macross mecha do tend to look like something you could much more easily picture on a real life runway than your average Energon, Armada, or Galaxy Force design.

I wouldn't say all of Kawamori's designs are like that, though. His Aquarion and Eureka 7 designs, for example.

Look at my examples.

I think that's a rather extreme view to take, and it seems as though you didn't understand my reasoning whatsoever.

Kawamori's designers for anime, which are later turned into toys. TFs are designed as toys first, which are later turned into cartoons. Different requirements and different markets. Different retail prices, too.

This new Prime toy, I'd wager that the lacking vehicle mode can be blamed on the size of the toy, combined with the emphasis on the robot mode Takara probably required of Kawamori. I imagine if Kawamori had been contracted to design the much larger 20th Anniversary Prime, we would have gotten a much nicer vehicle mode on that toy, and far and away better than the Hybrid Prime.

That perhaps I can agree with, but I think it also has to do with his lack of experience with Transformers.

I don't think anybody believes in Macross, or Gundam or any other 'realistic' japanese mecha series, either. They'd be insane to believe in giant robots, no?

I don't think Phyrox was suggesting that.

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Then I'll suggest that TF would be taken as seriously as (by comparison in the west) obscure anime mecha soap operas ;)

post-2653-1142895501_thumb.jpg

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David Hingtgen Super Dimension Member

David Hingtgen

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IMHO most of those Energon/Armada etc designs are almost "SD" versions of those vehicles. Yes, Cybertron Thundercracker looks like a Super Flanker. But he's not a Flanker. He's a kiddie-fied Flanker. It's very much like the difference between a diecast model Honda S2000, and a BitCharg/Zip-Zap Honda S2000. Or if you know what they are, egg planes and model planes.

Secondary rant: Gimmicks are also messing up the vehicle-modes. Working this, firing that. Plus current safety laws make all those things big and oversized. But that should be a different discussion.

My comment about Kawamori was purely about planes. Kawamori makes sleek, cool transforming planes. Takara makes "shuttle blobs with stubby wings".

MP Prime's truck mode is purely because they wanted robot mode to look a certain way--especially the legs. Seriously, Prime has always possibly the easiest to do in real life, most plausible/perfect Transformation out there. Stand up, swing out arms, flip up head. His robot mode is a truck with legs. He could have been the world's best diecast model Freightliner done to date---that also happened to transform. But they wanted "Gundam Prime", and so truck mode suffered to make that happen.

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Greyryder Global's Pipe Holder

Greyryder

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There is no way that E-Bulkhead is based on a KA-52. Maybe a KA-50, but he looks more AH-64 inspired to me.

Cybertron has given us some great alt modes. Too bad Hotshot looks like he's got one of Doc Brown's inventions on his rear deck. For the most part, the designers for this line have done great job of translating real world vehicles into freelanced probable looking designs, and still giving us good looking playable robots.

The line has also given us some of the best sci-fi based alt modes, Transformers has ever had.

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eriku SMS Squadron Leader

eriku

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I guess I don't get the "Gundam Prime" thing, since the aim was to make him look like his animated self. Not sure how that equates to Gundam, but whatever.

As for any "realistic" traits in mainline Transformers, aside from a few things in Car Robots (RID) and of course Binaltech, there really isn't any. A lot of things are obviously 'inspired' by real-world vehicles, but as David was saying they are very kiddified and 'softened' so to speak. Doesn't really mean they are better or worse for it, since it's all up to individual taste anyway. I like realistic designs very much, but if a TF comes along that has an interesting alt mode and a really cool bot mode, and non-sickening colors, I'll be into it weather it's realistic or not. But that's just me. ;)

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zeo-mare SMS Squadron Leader

zeo-mare

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yea i got their email this is what it said about the starscream

MASTERPIECE MP-03 STARSCREAM: Takara has not yet officially announced

this item, but all signs point to a fall release of the MP-03 Masterpiece

Starscream! We've listed an preorder for the figure at $109.99, this

price MAY CHANGE IN THE FUTURE, after Takara releases the official product

info. We have estimated the retail price at $109.99 by comparing it to

past Masterpiece releases. We have a few preliminary drawings of the

figure uploaded, this 'teaser' card is supposedly packaged in the THS-02

Convoy packaging - which will be released in Japan later this week. We

wanted to get this red-hot news out to you as soon as possible, please

remember that the price and other details may change, but you can cancel

or reduce your order at any time if needed. We'll update the site as soon

as more information is known - stay tuned!

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