transformation

[kanedaestes]

What's up all, i have a question, i don't think it is considered newbie, seeing as how i am not to the macross universe, but after reading many posts, i have realized that my knowledge is nothing now compared to most of yours. and so i ask, i remember reading a post about the diffeerences of the transformation levers, as how in macross dyrl, and everything since it is just two "joysticks" if you will the proper terminology escapes me, while in the series it was nobs, and levers depending on the mode at the time. now my question is exactly how would the mecha differentiate in dyrl the difference of transformation, because if you are in battriod mode and you fold the stick to the right and push forward, you can either be in gerwalk or fighter, how does that work? at least in the series it was better explained as every mode had it's own designated lever, or nob, although it may not be as practicle. or maybe they are using the robotech novels theory that by using your helmet you can tell the mech what you want to do, any explainations

[Keith]

The only major difference was that in the TV series, they were using 2009 era VF-1's, and in DYRL, they were using 2031 era VF-1's (a more advanced model of the same plane). I'm pretty sure that in both cases though, there was some sort of switch used for transformation, fancy stick manuevers would still be used for piloting, not transforming.

And the robotech book garbage is just that, garbage. It has no bearing on anything whatsoever.

[kanedaestes]

i was aware that the robotech books have nothing to do with macross, although i wouldn't call them garbage, it is just a seperate universe with a lot of the same concepts, if you read it as that it is actually decent, i never thought of them as the same though i know better, i was curios that's all, but yes for flying i understand, but there has been many of times when they transform on all the sequels and prequels were all the do is lift the lever or lower the lever and push or pull it back and the valk changes. they did it in m+, m0, and dyrl, and you never really see if there is another switch or button pushed.

[eugimon]

my thinking....

1. there's pre-programmed moves on the fly by wire system... so if the pilot does something extreme... say tries to slow down really quickly... the system understands that gerwalk would accomplish this better and changes form. also will change form if similar manuevers are done, and/or in order to keep weapons lock.

2. the producers are trying real hard to avoid the whole power rangers look.. you know, calling out the name of the move or weapon everytime before you do it... kinda silly.

personally, I don't mind the lack of detail on the actual flight controls, a little bit goes a long way... I'm sure that stuff would be really interesting to gear heads and flight buffs but for average guys like me.. eh, I'd rather the screen time was spent on more dogfight footage.

[Nightbat]

Keith's answer is the "Correct timeline" answer

where DYRL is not a new "Movie"version of the series, but placed in the Macross

timeline as a Documentary

(in other words: a movie within a cartoon )

Real world answer

With DYRL, the designers (Kawamori) had the time to rethink alot of aspects of the

Valks including the controls and most of the DYRL designs were accepted as standard (canon)

this was later used in the various s/pre-equels

[Druna Skass]

What's up all, i have a question, i don't think it is considered newbie, seeing as how i am not to the macross universe, but after reading many posts, i have realized that my knowledge is nothing now compared to most of yours. and so i ask, i remember reading a post about the diffeerences of the transformation levers, as how in macross dyrl, and everything since it is just two "joysticks" if you will the proper terminology escapes me, while in the series it was nobs, and levers depending on the mode at the time. now my question is exactly how would the mecha differentiate in dyrl the difference of transformation, because if you are in battriod mode and you fold the stick to the right and push forward, you can either be in gerwalk or fighter, how does that work? at least in the series it was better explained as every mode had it's own designated lever, or nob, although it may not be as practicle. or maybe they are using the robotech novels theory that by using your helmet you can tell the mech what you want to do, any explainations

I was guessing that rotating throttle acted like the gear shift on an automatic car, with the throttle rotated to horizontal position being fighter, then tiliting it up to the next "notch" for gerwalk, then vertical for battroid.

[Agent ONE]

When DYRL was created there was ZERO intention of connecting it to the TV series timeline so just accept this:

They redid some designs to make them look better.

[kanedaestes]

that's cool, i mean no one wants them to say change gerwalk mode. and i can understand the whole retooling of the design, i actually like the dyrl design when it comes to transformations, it makes it look better, but i was just wondering in an "real world" stand point as to why one manuever could do 2 totally different things, but i honestly if you think about it, in the heat of battle during an intense dog fight, i am quite sure i would be a pain in the ass to have to turn a nob or flip a lever, when one movement can do both.

[kanedaestes]

QUOTE (kanedaestes @ Aug 26 2004, 06:18 AM)

What's up all, i have a question, i don't think it is considered newbie, seeing as how i am not to the macross universe, but after reading many posts, i have realized that my knowledge is nothing now compared to most of yours. and so i ask, i remember reading a post about the diffeerences of the transformation levers, as how in macross dyrl, and everything since it is just two "joysticks" if you will the proper terminology escapes me, while in the series it was nobs, and levers depending on the mode at the time. now my question is exactly how would the mecha differentiate in dyrl the difference of transformation, because if you are in battriod mode and you fold the stick to the right and push forward, you can either be in gerwalk or fighter, how does that work? at least in the series it was better explained as every mode had it's own designated lever, or nob, although it may not be as practicle. or maybe they are using the robotech novels theory that by using your helmet you can tell the mech what you want to do, any explainations

I was guessing that rotating throttle acted like the gear shift on an automatic car, with the throttle rotated to horizontal position being fighter, then tiliting it up to the next "notch" for gerwalk, then vertical for battroid.

now that makes sense, thanks

[bsu legato]

When DYRL was created there was ZERO intention of connecting it to the TV series timeline so just accept this:

They redid some designs to make them look better.

Yeah, think of DYRL as the version 1.5 of the Macross Designs.

[Radd]

When DYRL was created there was ZERO intention of connecting it to the TV series timeline so just accept this:

They redid some designs to make them look better.

I still don't buy the whole 'DYRL? is now a movie within the tv series universe' thing, everything seems to point to that being oversimplification. I still think that when Kawamori said that "the real story of Space War I is somewhere between the movie and the tv series" he meant it.

If we see a VF-1 show up in Macross Zero, for example, I'll be incredibly suprised if they don't use the movie designs.

[kanedaestes]

you know he has a point, because even in the later sequels everything seems to be more based off the movie, as it the show never existed, like in macross plus, the macross didn't have the super carriers like the show, it had the um what were they called, armd? units like it was in dyrl

[Beltane70]

you know he has a point, because even in the later sequels everything seems to be more based off the movie, as it the show never existed, like in macross plus, the macross didn't have the super carriers like the show, it had the um what were they called, armd? units like it was in dyrl

Certain changes can be more easily explained than others, like the difference between the carriers and ARMD on the Macross. Since the Macross was heavily damaged at the end of the Macross tv series, it is quite possible that they decided to replace the carriers with the ARMDs when the Macross was rebuilt.

Other changes are not so simple....

[kanedaestes]

true but if they don't reuse it then what's the point of changing it? if you were just rebuilding for appearance sake, then why not leave it the way it was, if we restore a battle ship i doubt they would update it with a lot of enhancements or better equipment if they aren't going to use it, they would leave it the same for nastolgia, i live on an army base, i know

[Radd]

The Macross apparently did go back into service after being rebuilt. I think it was even considered to be an 'active vessel' in Macross Plus, though it acted as more a command centre than anything else. The Compendium probably clarifies this if anyone wanted to check on that.

[kanedaestes]

okay that makes sense

[Zentrandude]

you know he has a point, because even in the later sequels everything seems to be more based off the movie, as it the show never existed, like in macross plus, the macross didn't have the super carriers like the show, it had the um what were they called, armd? units like it was in dyrl

Certain changes can be more easily explained than others, like the difference between the carriers and ARMD on the Macross. Since the Macross was heavily damaged at the end of the Macross tv series, it is quite possible that they decided to replace the carriers with the ARMDs when the Macross was rebuilt.

Other changes are not so simple....

i perfer a more real world explaination. either 1. having armds instead of naval ships makes it more sci-fi and/or 2. it looks cooler.

[ManxoChu]

Not sure if anyone's expanded on the "gear shift" analogy so I'll take a crack by saying there's in all likelihood some sort of shift lock mechanism involved, just like the shift lock in vehicles with automatic transmission. Sure, there's some exceptions perhaps, such as a seamless lock-free switch from fighter to 1/2 gerwalk or gerwalk to 1/2 gerwalk, like shifting from reverse or drive into neutral.

As for upgrading the VF-1's and the Macross herself, as you can see you can only upgrade for so long before it deems itself necessary for brand new VF's or ships such as the New Macross-class vessels and the VF-19's.

[platypiman247]

The Macross apparently did go back into service after being rebuilt. I think it was even considered to be an 'active vessel' in Macross Plus, though it acted as more a command centre than anything else. The Compendium probably clarifies this if anyone wanted to check on that.

I think that a big role of the SDF-01 is to defend both itself(as it contains the United Nations Command Center) and the rest of Macross city (the most important city in the UN worlds), since it is obviously still operational as evidenced in Macross plus and boasts upgraded weaponry & systems.

[sharky]

I'm curious to know who first came up with the DYRL? is a movie within a TV series idea in the first place. It seems to have spawned a lot of controversy over the years. Personally I would not have thought of that idea on my own. Rather, when I first saw DYRL? I accepted the changes as the creators' taking their creative license to make things more slick and IMHO better for the big screen. I would think that they would have wanted to take the opportunity to refine certain things to give the fans something new and better. Sort of like the way George Lucas wanted to enhance the Star Wars movies. Don't really want to start a debate. Just curious as to the orgins of the idea.

[Graham]

The only major difference was that in the TV series, they were using 2009 era VF-1's, and in DYRL, they were using 2031 era VF-1's (a more advanced model of the same plane). I'm pretty sure that in both cases though, there was some sort of switch used for transformation, fancy stick manuevers would still be used for piloting, not transforming.

Personally, I don't agree that the Block 6 (DYRL type w/twin side stick controllers and holographic HUD) VF-1s are 2031 era at all. I'm sure the Block 6 was manufactured long before 2031, especially as the last VF-1 was manufactured in 2015 and the VF-4 was introduced as the next main Variable Fighter in 2020.

Although it is not specified in any official source material, I'm sure the Block 6 machines were introduced probably shortly after Space War 1, that is if we accept the TV chronology as being accurate and that DYRL is is a movie released in the Macross universe in 2031.

Anyway, for those of you who haven't seen it before here's a scan of page 61 of the TIAS Macross Plus book, which lists the DYRL Block 6 controls (although in Japanese).

Graham

[Hurricane29]

I love the design of those controls, purely awesome.

[kanedaestes]

i agree

[wolfx]

I'm curious to know who first came up with the DYRL? is a movie within a TV series idea in the first place. It seems to have spawned a lot of controversy over the years. Personally I would not have thought of that idea on my own. Rather, when I first saw DYRL? I accepted the changes as the creators' taking their creative license to make things more slick and IMHO better for the big screen. I would think that they would have wanted to take the opportunity to refine certain things to give the fans something new and better. Sort of like the way George Lucas wanted to enhance the Star Wars movies. Don't really want to start a debate. Just curious as to the orgins of the idea.

It was a movie in Macross 7. Mylene mentions about the DYRL? movie and how she liked it.

[ewilen]

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=1508

That's all we were able to come up with on the "DYRL is a movie in the Macross universe" concept.

[Renato]

I wasn't around for that debate, Ewilen, but thanks to your link I read most of the 10 pages.

Here is my two yen:

DYRL is a movie-within-the-continuity as of its production in 1984.

Now, I really HATE taking the same stance as Keith because having read that thread I totally disagree with his debating method (not that there is much of one). He never showed any proof.

Anyway, here is what I make my assumption by:

1)- In the original theatrical trailer for DYRL (the very first one featuring the playing cards and HAL Minmay illustrations superimposed over Kawamori's photographs of Tokyo and Yokohama -- you can download it from MW here: movie trailer download page), Minmay narrates. I can't remember the exact wording, I'll check it later, but anyway it's something like "I am the pop idol Lynn Minmay. I play the lead role in this movie". Hikaru says "And I am the pilot obsessed by Minmay, Hikaru Ichijo." Misa: "I, Misa Hayase, act out a woman's heart". Or something like that. Anyway, the emphasis is that they are PLAYING ROLES IN A MOVIE.

2)- Gold book, the first few pages. There is a poster for the movie (the Mikimoto one, not the Kawamori one) with text on it, which reads something like (sorry, don't have the book on me) "Love, Do you Remember? Starring Lynn Minmay, Hikaru Ichijo, etc... Released in summer 2013.. Or something like that. Anyway, you get the gist. This is the image as it appears in the MW main site: Mikimoto DYRL pic, but the text has been removed.

Note -- This is differs with what Studio Nue said in 1994 when the official timeline was announced in that the release DYRL in the Macross Universe is stated as 2013, or 2011 or 2012, I can't remember, someone check that image in the Gold Book. In any case, it is not what Nue said in 1994 that it was released in 2031. So there's definitely some tinkering there.

To be honest, I don't know how seriously Nue were taking continuity back in 84, because the idea that the ACTUAL PEOPLE INVOLVED IN THE EVENTS played themselves in a movie version is way out there.

Sorry to bring up an old debate, but I don't think this info has been presented before.

[Pat S]

To be honest, I don't know how seriously Nue were taking continuity back in 84, because the idea that the ACTUAL PEOPLE INVOLVED IN THE EVENTS played themselves in a movie version is way out there.

Especially since some of them died before they could make the movie!

Edited September 13, 2004 by Pat S

[Renato]

To be honest, I don't know how seriously Nue were taking continuity back in 84, because the idea that the ACTUAL PEOPLE INVOLVED IN THE EVENTS played themselves in a movie version is way out there.

Especially since some of them died before they could make the movie!

Hehe. If you look closely, you can see the strings holding up Roy's carcass! He's a marionette!

[Pat S]

Ewwww

[ewilen]

Thank you, Renato.

One thing: it seems to me that in anime previews (e.g., preview teasers at the end of each TV episode), characters often narrate directly to the viewer as if they're commenting on the story. I don't think this happens in SDF Macross (where the narrator is pretty clearly a narrator, even though voiced by the same person as Claudia). But I'm pretty sure that sort of thing happens in SDC Southern Cross. I think I may also have seen it in Mospeada, Patlabor, the Project A-ko OAVs, and/or Urusei Yatsura.

So the voiceovers by Minmay, Hikaru, and Misa may be more in that sort of "playful" spirit than pretending to be a "real promo" for the film (especially Hikaru and Misa's comments, which don't sound like something somebody would say in a real promo).

Edited September 13, 2004 by ewilen

[bsu legato]

One thing: it seems to me that in anime previews (e.g., preview teasers at the end of each TV episode), characters often narrate directly to the viewer as if they're commenting on the story. I don't think this happens in SDF Macross (where the narrator is pretty clearly a narrator, even though voiced by the same person as Claudia). But I'm pretty sure that sort of thing happens in SDC Southern Cross. I think I may also have seen it in Mospeada, Patlabor, the Project A-ko OAVs, and/or Urusei Yatsura.

Yeah, often in the preview of the next episode you'll get a character saying "Hi, this is so-and-so. I hope you're enjoying *insert anime here* Next week, such-and-such happens. Bye-bye."

[Renato]

One thing: it seems to me that in anime previews (e.g., preview teasers at the end of each TV episode), characters often narrate directly to the viewer as if they're commenting on the story. I don't think this happens in SDF Macross (where the narrator is pretty clearly a narrator, even though voiced by the same person as Claudia). But I'm pretty sure that sort of thing happens in SDC Southern Cross. I think I may also have seen it in Mospeada, Patlabor, the Project A-ko OAVs, and/or Urusei Yatsura.

Yeah, often in the preview of the next episode you'll get a character saying "Hi, this is so-and-so. I hope you're enjoying *insert anime here* Next week, such-and-such happens. Bye-bye."

Remember the one in Cowboy Bebop where Ein speaks?

[Renato]

Thank you, Renato.

One thing: it seems to me that in anime previews (e.g., preview teasers at the end of each TV episode), characters often narrate directly to the viewer as if they're commenting on the story. I don't think this happens in SDF Macross (where the narrator is pretty clearly a narrator, even though voiced by the same person as Claudia). But I'm pretty sure that sort of thing happens in SDC Southern Cross. I think I may also have seen it in Mospeada, Patlabor, the Project A-ko OAVs, and/or Urusei Yatsura.

So the voiceovers by Minmay, Hikaru, and Misa may be more in that sort of "playful" spirit than pretending to be a "real promo" for the film (especially Hikaru and Misa's comments, which don't sound like something somebody would say in a real promo).

I agree it is not serious. This is because in 1984 there was no official continuity to speak of.

[lord_breetai]

text deleted never mind...

Edited September 16, 2004 by lord_breetai

[Nied]

Personally, I don't agree that the Block 6 (DYRL type w/twin side stick controllers and holographic HUD) VF-1s are 2031 era at all. I'm sure the Block 6 was manufactured long before 2031, especially as the last VF-1 was manufactured in 2015 and the VF-4 was introduced as the next main Variable Fighter in 2020.

Although it is not specified in any official source material, I'm sure the Block 6 machines were introduced probably shortly after Space War 1, that is if we accept the TV chronology as being accurate and that DYRL is is a movie released in the Macross universe in 2031.

Anyway, for those of you who haven't seen it before here's a scan of page 61 of the TIAS Macross Plus book, which lists the DYRL Block 6 controls (although in Japanese).

Graham

I think that the Block 6 valks in DYRL are simply representative of you're average in service valkyrie circa 2031 (and there had to be some in service otherwise the Spacy wouldn't have had reason to upgrade them to VF-1X standard later on). Most likely the block 6 update happened after VF-1 production ceased, or at the very least after VF-4 production started (the VF-4 has a slightly cruder version of the VF-1 Blk6 cockpit).