sketchley

In this day and age, that's not really saying very much. Two minutes isn't that long, and I think I've made longer home made animations than that. The animatics for movies like Star Wars III attest to quick turn arounds of quality animation. Remember - it's been described as a pilot film. Pilot films sometimes are radically different from the final production. The pilot film for Nadia of the Mysterious Seas comes to mind. Character design, mecha, and fashions all changed. Anyhow, starting from scratch is an intriguing idea, but I still firmly believe that the people behind it are busy. Hey, doesn't Shoki Kawamori have a movie coming out this month? I remember seeing a review in a how-anime/manga art is created, and his story boards for it (pretty neat seeing how they transformed it into CGA.

Agreed, though let's not neglect the canon and semi canon video games. Studio Nue timeline: + VF-X & VF-X2 Parallel Universe (Macross II): SDFM 2036 (you know, the Neld Fleet Invasion game and has the VF-1AR, 1JR, 1SR that provides the link between DYRL VFs and Macross II VFs.) Of course there are more (not to mention audio CDs, manga and so on.) It may actually serve this topic well for people to do research into those games as they *may* have stuff on the Inspection Army... er, Supervision Army. (Though not VF-X, VF-X2, M+ Game Edition or DYRL, beyond what is already present in the various anime.)

Uh... BV has released, and is in the process of releasing more than Honneamise and Jin-Roh: http://www.macrossroleplay.org/forums/index.php?topic=1371.0 (near the bottom of the first post; a list of titles currently being advertised on the back of Newtype.) To be honest, extras don't appear to be the norm with DVD releases; it's pretty much hit and miss with them. The same appears to be holding true of the BD releases so far. This all goes back to the market, and the demand for such things. My guess is that there really isn't that much, which equates to few (if any!) extras, and overall high costs per unit. Japan is an expensive country to live in, after all.

Space, able to afford it, and the kicker - free time to enjoy it. Most people don't have two of those, many don't have all three. Renato, I bet you get ugly looks from your neighbours, 'cause you're too noisy. うるさい外国人やな。　

Try Mandarake. In the Namba and Umeda stores, over the past 4 years, I have seen all of the main Macross books, except for THE Gold Book (I may have seen it once... can't remember with certainty) and most of the minor books. By main and minor, I mean by whatever must-have rankings English fans put on them. Also, I do not recommend making it public that you violated copyright and pirated a publication. It means a paper trail back to you. (IP code, ISP has your address, etc..)

I agree with the poor layout, less than commentable artwork, and a chronic problem with meeting publication deadlines. However all rules, no matter the system, have limitations and clunkiness. The lack of world information and errors is something that we can say in hindsight, given our unprecedented access to the original material and translations of it. At the time the books were written and published, there was literally nothing. Therefore, give them a break on it, and blame HG for whatever information or disinformation they got. I quite enjoy the Robotech RPG game, and ignore the clunky part of the rules. The end results were always fun. I agree with CoryHolmes's points too. Return of the Masters was a great addition to the series! Along with fleshing out of the in between periods with the comics Malcontent Uprisings and Invid War, those three created what the animation should've looked and felt like (a true mix of all three anime.) I don't currently play Robotech (I play Macross :!: ), but I have a soft spot for the game, despite it's hunched back, scars and warts. Perhaps that's because I don't play the rules literaly, and as is the case with ALL RPGs, it's the people you play with that make a game great, or not.

Guys, some important things that everyone is forgetting: 1) TV scheduling. What if instead of a crap time slot in the immediate future, they opted for a good time slot in the medium future. 2) production company scheduling. The company working on Engage Planet Kissdom is supposed to do Macross F, right, so when is Kissdom going to be finished? In addition, and I am just speculating here, Macross 7 was a rather lengthy TV series, right. Macross F is just as likely to be equally lengthy, if not more so. Therefore, extra time is needed to figure out the various plots, as Macross is definitely not written on an episodic maintain the status que formula.

Tachikoma? No, no, no! The Fuchikoma is where it's at! Not even the Uchikoma can compete!

Agreed. In participating in this debate, I have come to a greater understanding of the Zentraedi employing the tactics of stealth (thereby they could have FTL sensors with a range greater than 10 light years, but they choose not to use them for tactical reasons) with support from the anime. However, as a) it's off topic and b) most likely going to be picked apart and argued, I'm opting not to discuss it further.

What part of passive sensors are you not understanding?

FYI, active sensors, if obeying the laws of physics, have a limited range of effectiveness. Passive sensors (which light detection is), are "range-less", pending nothing else gets in the way or drowns out whatever is being detected. You'll also note the caveat that I put into the sentence. All the examples given of instantaneous detection outside of the half-light second range are still well within 10 light years, are they not? The only exception that comes to mind is when Diamond Force used the fold boosters to get to City 7. The fold boosters being maxed out at 20 light years, and the animation pretty strongly implying that they made a 20 light year fold. Which means that the City 7 was detected at about 20 light years distance. However, apples and oranges. We're not talking about UN Spacy technology after 35+ years of R&D here (and we all know that UN Spacy technology, in some aspects, has advanced much farther than Zentraedi technology.) We're talking about Zentraedi technology prior to contact with Earth. In addition, claiming that the Zentraedi have FTL detection capabilities with unlimited range is quite destabilizing, as it guarantees that they have god-like powers, being able to see all activity, everywhere. And given what we've seen, even with the more advanced UN Spacy technology in Macross 7, no one has had that ability in Macross. Within a finite range, yes. Therefore to clarify my point: yes, Zentraedi ships have FTL detection technology, but that FTL detection technology has an active range of less than 10 light years.

So far, you're the only one who's said that the Zentraedi fleet took 10 years to travel to Earth. Again, refer to the Compendium quote: It means that the fleet relies on sensors that detect phenomenon that travels at light speed and that they came right away by the means shown in SDF:M. (10 years later + 10 light years away = 0 years of travel) Yes, they were doing something else: an "enemy search operation for Supervision Army survivors." It's ok to be the Devil's Advocate. Though, for some, possibly many of us, some of the things mentioned are a given and we are aware of them. I think we all avoid them because it brings too much of the "all for nothing" aspect to the discussion/debate, and it makes reaching a concensus (partial, or otherwise), impossible.

From the Macross Compendium: http://macross.anime.net//story/chronology/2009/index.html Survivors implies the losers, and I read it as the surviving Supervision ships, after one or many a grand, spectacular final battle. I agree that my original post may be reading too much into their tactics (repair may be beyond their capabilities at the time,) but given that they are survivors on the run, and that we've seen the Bodolza Fleet, and at least one more grand Zentraedi Fleet in the area of Earth, my assertations are logically sound. Macross Compendium: http://macross.anime.net/story/encyclopedi...love/index.html Couple that with the use of the "Meltraendi" LST Carrier as a transport ship in the included-in-the-cannon-continuity VF-X2, and a bunch of questions get raised. Are the Meltraendi ships really UN Spacy ships? Are only some of them UN Spacy ships, and other ones non-Bodolza Fleet Zentraedi ships? Things would be a lot clearer if the Fleet of Strongest Women episode doesn't exist to muddy the waters... The only thing that is clear, is that different Zentraedi Fleet have different motifs and equipment.

Yes (what he said), and, rewatch the first few episodes of SDF:M. At the beginning of SDF:M, the Supervision Army is retreating from the part of the galaxy that the Earth is in. The Macross is a Supervision Gunboat deliberately abandoned and left on Earth as a booby-trap. It takes the Zentraedi 10 years to track the defold*, come to Earth, and spring the trap. By that time, humans have claimed the ship for their own, and reconstructed it; in the process, distracting and then destroying the entire Bodolzer Fleet in the area (100s, 1,000s, 10,000s, 100,000s??? light year area) and allowing the Supervision Army's booby trap to completely work. As the Supervision Army knows that the area that Earth is in is full of a Zentraedi fleet larger than whatever remnants they have left, and that they strategically retreated from the area, we, the viewer, know that unless if the Supervision Army are completely stupid, they won't be showing up in the area of Earth again. I've always interpreted what little we know on them, as the Supervision Fleet being composed of mostly Zentraedi ships and mecha. Therefore, they are evenly, or possibly slightly more well armed** than the standard Zentraedi fleet. The Zentraedi fleets have numerical advantage, with thousands, millions, possibly billions more ships, men and equipment. I see the war as that of attrition - whomever survives longer, wins. It also justifies the Supervision Army tactics that we've seen; retreat to a safe place to repair and if possible, expand. * No telling where the rest of the (small? large? entire???) Supervision battle fleet defolded, as it's stated that the Zentraedi didn't detect a fold away from Earth. The rest of the Supervision fleet must've gone a lot further than the 10 light year booby trap, from their last engagement with the Zentraedi that were chasing them, and came to Earth. ** I figure that the brainwash Protoculture both fix, and are actively trying to upgrade the equipment. Thus looking at only the state of repair, Supervision Army equipment is better than the same of the Zentraedi. Upgrades? Well, some questions need to be answered first: do they have something like a factory satellite or 3 Star at their disposal? If yes...

Got the latest issue of Newtype. My summary of the two Macross related articles in it can be seen here: http://www.macrossroleplay.org/forums/index.php?topic=1366

Glad to see Canada well represented in this thread. It looks like you hit the main points (and I'll repost them to clarify mostly for myself): - cost - immediate to really fast delivery of a large quantity - upgradeable - mission suited - politically acceptable supplier - source country willing and ready to sell all aspects of the military technology, and not withholding any of it (the list isn't in any particular order.) That pretty much sums it up. Sure, as a Canadian, I envy some of the strengths and capabilities of the other MBT out there, but when the reality check came, the best tank got itself purchased.

I saw this show in Discovery a couple of years ago. The hands down best MBT is the Soviet T-34; and it's not on the list! What's with that? More than 84,000 were built. Swarm! Swarm!

Agreed (that it's semi-off topic.) As I've "picked up" both languages, I probably may be biased in my opinion that despite both having difficult aspects, neither are more or less difficult than the other. Learning exclusively from anime is unadvisable. As Eugimon stated, the politeness level is generally quite low (either between peers, or deliberately insulting*). However, as a study aid to practice what's learned in a class** (listening training mostly), especially in a non-Japanese environment that many of you live in, it is worthwhile. Yes, watching TV is a good way to study, believe it or not. However, it means covering up the subtitles and relying on your ears and brain to figure out what is being said; not turning off your ears and reading English .) If you understand the story from previous viewings, it's also an excellent way to figure out the meaning of phrases, language use, and possibly even words and word (noun, adjective, etc.) endings. * Something that is lost in translation, perhaps moreso in dubs; because at least with subs, the texture of sounds in the language is still apparent. Two examples that come to mind are Ghost in the Shell (the movie), and Macross Plus. In GitS, the Japanese voice actor has a direct, all-business, coldness in her manner of speaking. The English voice actor has a laid back valley-girl manner of speaking. The English dub puts an entirely different characterization on the character. In Macross Plus (yes, this is despite the English dub being really good, with good voice actors), Isamu Dyson's English voice actor went for emotion and theatrics; whereas the original voice actor is cold and distant, and, especially in the opening sequence of the OVA, has a heavy "I'm beyond bored" feel to the way he speaks. The original Japanese actor is very, very subtle, but if one picks up on it, it adds a startling dimension to the character; opposing the English actors "I say I'm bored, but look at all the exciting fireworks!" ** class here could mean anything with a structured approach to language acquisition and functionality, such as private tutoring or books. Picking things up at random is not advised if you want to be anything more than joke! PS Darn it! I had wanted to make this post as small as possible... but it kept growing!

Phonetically, Korean is much harder than Japanese, as there are a lot more sounds in Korean that are NOT in English (I'd catagorize the majority as being in-between English sounds, with a few outside of it.) Written Korean is fairly easy to learn (it helps a bunch if you've learned Kanji or written Chinese.) In fact, there is a lot of Hanja (Korean for Kanji) that show up in Korean newspapers and books (moreso in academic, than in popular books.) The Hanja used is the original Chinese, which both Kanji and simplified Chinese are based off of. As far as Korean grammar goes, it's largely the same as Japanese, but there are some things that are not in English nor Japanese, in addition to having a future tense which Japanese doesn't have outside of the present potential. Japanese is not hard because of the 3 alphabets (5 if if you include furigana and romaji), though I agree that it is much harder to read and guess the meaning of words (though, once one has developed a basic command of Kanji and learned all the radicals, one can start guessing reading and content fairly accurately.) The key difficulty to Japanese, and this is also true to Korean, is the levels of politeness* and nuance. The more one learns of the language, the more nuanced things get (much moreso than English.) As for politeness... well, even the Japanese, especially young people, have trouble or are ignorant of the more and most polite levels of the language. (In effect, they'd never be able to speak to the Emperor, and will have trouble talking to the boss and superiors at work.) Concerning phonetics, Japanese is the easiest, as there are significantly less sounds than in English, and there is essentially only one sound not in common usage in English (tsu). In general, Mandarin Chinese has 4 tones per sound. Cantonese, on the other hand, has up to 21 (!) per sound. (Yes, twenty-one if you're thinking that's a mistake.) Going by the "come live in the country" test, Japan is the easiest for an English speaker (it has more foreign (essentially English) borrowed words, easier phonetics, and plenty of signage in English.) Korea is second (quite a few less foreign borrowed words in daily use, more difficult phonetics**, and moderately less English signage,) and China is, well the most difficult to live in and learn, IMHO. If one expands to Southeast Asia, the easiest language becomes Bhasa (Bahasa Malay or Bahasa Indonesian - basically the same with a political difference.) Also, it's Hangul ( 한글 ); Hangeul (aka Han-geul) if you want to be up-to-date accurate. 나는한국어또한하세요. Back to sub vs. dub: dubs can be really, really good; Macross Plus proves this. However, the people who buy dubs don't complain (or don't complain to the right people) about the bad voice acting. If people voted with their money and got a lot more vocal with the companies about low or poor quality dubs, you'll be able to see an increase in quality. As it is, the quality of the dub doesn't matter to the company, as people still buy it. It doesn't even matter the country of origin, though farming out to another country do to a positive exchange rate says a lot about how a company operates: looking to cut costs and do things as cheaply (aka low quality) as possible (again, this is not meant as a slight against the voice actors in the other country). Don't be suprised if, due to exchange rates and the search for even cheaper production costs, if anime starts taking on East Indian and South Asian accents; as a lot of English companies on both sides of the Atlantic are farming their call centres out to those countries. EDIT: * Politeness in Japanese and Korean is unlike English politeness (deferential use of words, and more words to say the same thing.) Polite language is an entirely new set of words. For example to eat in Japanese: 食べる (daily) vs. いただく (humble) vs. 召し上がる (honorific). ** There is no f sound in Korean. Therefore, do you want a (photo)copy? and do you want a coffee? sound exactly the same. The borrowed English word "fighting" (meaning hang in there) is said either hwaighting or paighting. Japanese doesn't have that problem, but both Japanese and Korean have the confusion of differing meaning from the English meaning(s). (Ex: Ice means ice cream, and not frozen water.)

Learning anything can be either impossibly difficult, or super easy. It all depends on your motivation, mindset, and ability to make time to study. Learning the basics of Japanese is actually a lot easier than the basics of English (only need either 100 or 200 words vs. double that for English.) Grammatically, it's also a lot simpler than English, as there are almost no exceptions to the rule. If you come from an English background, you've also have an advantage, as there are a lot of English loan words in Japanese. Of course, the three most difficult things are SVO order (SOV in Japanese,) kanji, and item-specific counters. That said, if you ever reach a competent level of Japanese, it makes learning Korean (essentially the same grammar, a lot of similar words*) easier, and the potential of being able to read some Chinese**. * Both Japanese and Korean originally used Chinese characters as a written language. Because of that, a lot of words are similar (though not necessarily easily visible similar,) and there are some that are exactly the same. ** I have first hand experience with many Chinese reading and guessing the meaning of Japanese text. Though I have no first hand experience of Japanese doing the same with Chinese. It may be because the Japanese simplified Kanji earlier, and in ways more similar to the original Chinese characters, than the later Chinese simplification.

そうそうそう。日本語を分からなかったらヌアンス等が全然知らんやん。 RFがいつも失礼やん。誰でも彼に怒っているやん。

The problem with the book (if it can be deemed as such) is that it only covers the first half of the series. Things like the FAST packs for the VF-19, and the transatmospheric packs for the VF-11 are left out. Otherwise, and overall, it's an excellent book, with excellent LARGE size images of a lot of the VFs and ships.

Trust me, she doesn't look as young (apologies Marii-san). Yes, she does look young, but compare their body language. Who has the confidence of experience and who is still youthfully nervous? It's especially apparent in the eyes (how many of you actually looked at those parts?!?!?!?!?!!)

This is the one I was referring to. The source image is also more complete than the image in Perfect Memory. If anything, I'd say this is the halfway step between the VF-1 and the VE-1; as it's got FAST packs, and the stuff on the back are definitely FAST packs!

Directly below the VEFR-1/green circle, at about the bottom of the SDF-1's foot. You can just barely make out a canopy. Everything below that is cut off (both this, and the one in the book.) I picked the book up here in Japan at Mandarake, for ￥4,200. I can't remember if that's including sales tax or not (currently 5% and must be included in the sticker price by law.) It's a rare book (not always in stock in the Macross section whenever I can check,) but I don't think the price will have increased much, if at all. The copy I picked up is the OUT10月号, if that means anything to you.