sketchley

From the Macross Compendium: http://macross.anime.net//story/chronology/2009/index.html Survivors implies the losers, and I read it as the surviving Supervision ships, after one or many a grand, spectacular final battle. I agree that my original post may be reading too much into their tactics (repair may be beyond their capabilities at the time,) but given that they are survivors on the run, and that we've seen the Bodolza Fleet, and at least one more grand Zentraedi Fleet in the area of Earth, my assertations are logically sound. Macross Compendium: http://macross.anime.net/story/encyclopedi...love/index.html Couple that with the use of the "Meltraendi" LST Carrier as a transport ship in the included-in-the-cannon-continuity VF-X2, and a bunch of questions get raised. Are the Meltraendi ships really UN Spacy ships? Are only some of them UN Spacy ships, and other ones non-Bodolza Fleet Zentraedi ships? Things would be a lot clearer if the Fleet of Strongest Women episode doesn't exist to muddy the waters... The only thing that is clear, is that different Zentraedi Fleet have different motifs and equipment.

Yes (what he said), and, rewatch the first few episodes of SDF:M. At the beginning of SDF:M, the Supervision Army is retreating from the part of the galaxy that the Earth is in. The Macross is a Supervision Gunboat deliberately abandoned and left on Earth as a booby-trap. It takes the Zentraedi 10 years to track the defold*, come to Earth, and spring the trap. By that time, humans have claimed the ship for their own, and reconstructed it; in the process, distracting and then destroying the entire Bodolzer Fleet in the area (100s, 1,000s, 10,000s, 100,000s??? light year area) and allowing the Supervision Army's booby trap to completely work. As the Supervision Army knows that the area that Earth is in is full of a Zentraedi fleet larger than whatever remnants they have left, and that they strategically retreated from the area, we, the viewer, know that unless if the Supervision Army are completely stupid, they won't be showing up in the area of Earth again. I've always interpreted what little we know on them, as the Supervision Fleet being composed of mostly Zentraedi ships and mecha. Therefore, they are evenly, or possibly slightly more well armed** than the standard Zentraedi fleet. The Zentraedi fleets have numerical advantage, with thousands, millions, possibly billions more ships, men and equipment. I see the war as that of attrition - whomever survives longer, wins. It also justifies the Supervision Army tactics that we've seen; retreat to a safe place to repair and if possible, expand. * No telling where the rest of the (small? large? entire???) Supervision battle fleet defolded, as it's stated that the Zentraedi didn't detect a fold away from Earth. The rest of the Supervision fleet must've gone a lot further than the 10 light year booby trap, from their last engagement with the Zentraedi that were chasing them, and came to Earth. ** I figure that the brainwash Protoculture both fix, and are actively trying to upgrade the equipment. Thus looking at only the state of repair, Supervision Army equipment is better than the same of the Zentraedi. Upgrades? Well, some questions need to be answered first: do they have something like a factory satellite or 3 Star at their disposal? If yes...

Got the latest issue of Newtype. My summary of the two Macross related articles in it can be seen here: http://www.macrossroleplay.org/forums/index.php?topic=1366

Glad to see Canada well represented in this thread. It looks like you hit the main points (and I'll repost them to clarify mostly for myself): - cost - immediate to really fast delivery of a large quantity - upgradeable - mission suited - politically acceptable supplier - source country willing and ready to sell all aspects of the military technology, and not withholding any of it (the list isn't in any particular order.) That pretty much sums it up. Sure, as a Canadian, I envy some of the strengths and capabilities of the other MBT out there, but when the reality check came, the best tank got itself purchased.

I saw this show in Discovery a couple of years ago. The hands down best MBT is the Soviet T-34; and it's not on the list! What's with that? More than 84,000 were built. Swarm! Swarm!

Agreed (that it's semi-off topic.) As I've "picked up" both languages, I probably may be biased in my opinion that despite both having difficult aspects, neither are more or less difficult than the other. Learning exclusively from anime is unadvisable. As Eugimon stated, the politeness level is generally quite low (either between peers, or deliberately insulting*). However, as a study aid to practice what's learned in a class** (listening training mostly), especially in a non-Japanese environment that many of you live in, it is worthwhile. Yes, watching TV is a good way to study, believe it or not. However, it means covering up the subtitles and relying on your ears and brain to figure out what is being said; not turning off your ears and reading English .) If you understand the story from previous viewings, it's also an excellent way to figure out the meaning of phrases, language use, and possibly even words and word (noun, adjective, etc.) endings. * Something that is lost in translation, perhaps moreso in dubs; because at least with subs, the texture of sounds in the language is still apparent. Two examples that come to mind are Ghost in the Shell (the movie), and Macross Plus. In GitS, the Japanese voice actor has a direct, all-business, coldness in her manner of speaking. The English voice actor has a laid back valley-girl manner of speaking. The English dub puts an entirely different characterization on the character. In Macross Plus (yes, this is despite the English dub being really good, with good voice actors), Isamu Dyson's English voice actor went for emotion and theatrics; whereas the original voice actor is cold and distant, and, especially in the opening sequence of the OVA, has a heavy "I'm beyond bored" feel to the way he speaks. The original Japanese actor is very, very subtle, but if one picks up on it, it adds a startling dimension to the character; opposing the English actors "I say I'm bored, but look at all the exciting fireworks!" ** class here could mean anything with a structured approach to language acquisition and functionality, such as private tutoring or books. Picking things up at random is not advised if you want to be anything more than joke! PS Darn it! I had wanted to make this post as small as possible... but it kept growing!

Phonetically, Korean is much harder than Japanese, as there are a lot more sounds in Korean that are NOT in English (I'd catagorize the majority as being in-between English sounds, with a few outside of it.) Written Korean is fairly easy to learn (it helps a bunch if you've learned Kanji or written Chinese.) In fact, there is a lot of Hanja (Korean for Kanji) that show up in Korean newspapers and books (moreso in academic, than in popular books.) The Hanja used is the original Chinese, which both Kanji and simplified Chinese are based off of. As far as Korean grammar goes, it's largely the same as Japanese, but there are some things that are not in English nor Japanese, in addition to having a future tense which Japanese doesn't have outside of the present potential. Japanese is not hard because of the 3 alphabets (5 if if you include furigana and romaji), though I agree that it is much harder to read and guess the meaning of words (though, once one has developed a basic command of Kanji and learned all the radicals, one can start guessing reading and content fairly accurately.) The key difficulty to Japanese, and this is also true to Korean, is the levels of politeness* and nuance. The more one learns of the language, the more nuanced things get (much moreso than English.) As for politeness... well, even the Japanese, especially young people, have trouble or are ignorant of the more and most polite levels of the language. (In effect, they'd never be able to speak to the Emperor, and will have trouble talking to the boss and superiors at work.) Concerning phonetics, Japanese is the easiest, as there are significantly less sounds than in English, and there is essentially only one sound not in common usage in English (tsu). In general, Mandarin Chinese has 4 tones per sound. Cantonese, on the other hand, has up to 21 (!) per sound. (Yes, twenty-one if you're thinking that's a mistake.) Going by the "come live in the country" test, Japan is the easiest for an English speaker (it has more foreign (essentially English) borrowed words, easier phonetics, and plenty of signage in English.) Korea is second (quite a few less foreign borrowed words in daily use, more difficult phonetics**, and moderately less English signage,) and China is, well the most difficult to live in and learn, IMHO. If one expands to Southeast Asia, the easiest language becomes Bhasa (Bahasa Malay or Bahasa Indonesian - basically the same with a political difference.) Also, it's Hangul ( 한글 ); Hangeul (aka Han-geul) if you want to be up-to-date accurate. 나는한국어또한하세요. Back to sub vs. dub: dubs can be really, really good; Macross Plus proves this. However, the people who buy dubs don't complain (or don't complain to the right people) about the bad voice acting. If people voted with their money and got a lot more vocal with the companies about low or poor quality dubs, you'll be able to see an increase in quality. As it is, the quality of the dub doesn't matter to the company, as people still buy it. It doesn't even matter the country of origin, though farming out to another country do to a positive exchange rate says a lot about how a company operates: looking to cut costs and do things as cheaply (aka low quality) as possible (again, this is not meant as a slight against the voice actors in the other country). Don't be suprised if, due to exchange rates and the search for even cheaper production costs, if anime starts taking on East Indian and South Asian accents; as a lot of English companies on both sides of the Atlantic are farming their call centres out to those countries. EDIT: * Politeness in Japanese and Korean is unlike English politeness (deferential use of words, and more words to say the same thing.) Polite language is an entirely new set of words. For example to eat in Japanese: 食べる (daily) vs. いただく (humble) vs. 召し上がる (honorific). ** There is no f sound in Korean. Therefore, do you want a (photo)copy? and do you want a coffee? sound exactly the same. The borrowed English word "fighting" (meaning hang in there) is said either hwaighting or paighting. Japanese doesn't have that problem, but both Japanese and Korean have the confusion of differing meaning from the English meaning(s). (Ex: Ice means ice cream, and not frozen water.)

Learning anything can be either impossibly difficult, or super easy. It all depends on your motivation, mindset, and ability to make time to study. Learning the basics of Japanese is actually a lot easier than the basics of English (only need either 100 or 200 words vs. double that for English.) Grammatically, it's also a lot simpler than English, as there are almost no exceptions to the rule. If you come from an English background, you've also have an advantage, as there are a lot of English loan words in Japanese. Of course, the three most difficult things are SVO order (SOV in Japanese,) kanji, and item-specific counters. That said, if you ever reach a competent level of Japanese, it makes learning Korean (essentially the same grammar, a lot of similar words*) easier, and the potential of being able to read some Chinese**. * Both Japanese and Korean originally used Chinese characters as a written language. Because of that, a lot of words are similar (though not necessarily easily visible similar,) and there are some that are exactly the same. ** I have first hand experience with many Chinese reading and guessing the meaning of Japanese text. Though I have no first hand experience of Japanese doing the same with Chinese. It may be because the Japanese simplified Kanji earlier, and in ways more similar to the original Chinese characters, than the later Chinese simplification.

そうそうそう。日本語を分からなかったらヌアンス等が全然知らんやん。 RFがいつも失礼やん。誰でも彼に怒っているやん。

The problem with the book (if it can be deemed as such) is that it only covers the first half of the series. Things like the FAST packs for the VF-19, and the transatmospheric packs for the VF-11 are left out. Otherwise, and overall, it's an excellent book, with excellent LARGE size images of a lot of the VFs and ships.

Trust me, she doesn't look as young (apologies Marii-san). Yes, she does look young, but compare their body language. Who has the confidence of experience and who is still youthfully nervous? It's especially apparent in the eyes (how many of you actually looked at those parts?!?!?!?!?!!)

This is the one I was referring to. The source image is also more complete than the image in Perfect Memory. If anything, I'd say this is the halfway step between the VF-1 and the VE-1; as it's got FAST packs, and the stuff on the back are definitely FAST packs!

Directly below the VEFR-1/green circle, at about the bottom of the SDF-1's foot. You can just barely make out a canopy. Everything below that is cut off (both this, and the one in the book.) I picked the book up here in Japan at Mandarake, for ￥4,200. I can't remember if that's including sales tax or not (currently 5% and must be included in the sticker price by law.) It's a rare book (not always in stock in the Macross section whenever I can check,) but I don't think the price will have increased much, if at all. The copy I picked up is the OUT10月号, if that means anything to you.

The release schedule is unconfirmed. It is only speculation herein that supposed it was due to be released in October (the actual 25th anniversary month.)

Are those the same TV adds that are in the 20th Anniversary DVD?

It shows up in SDF:M. If you have Macross Perfect Memory, flip to the pages on Bodolza's attack on Earth (or watch the anime, etc.). There's an image of the SDF-1 with VFs and Regults in front of it, and Zentraedi ships behind it. Look closely at the VFs in front of the leg on the left side. About halfway down is the VEFR-1. Colourwise, it looks to be the same as the standard VF-1 (though, in that image, even the twanies are grey, like Skull squadron in shadow.) The radome (at least the edge of it) is a red colour. The interesting thing about the above mentioned image is that there is another non-standard VF even lower than the fully visible VEFR-1. Only the top can be seen, and it looks like there is a small vertically mounted radome on the left, and a horizontal sensor on the right (directions are that of the viewer, not the vehicle.) I think I may have seen it somewhere else before. Something makes me think it's a VF in gerwalk, though I could be mistaken.

ECM = Electronic Counter Measures. I suggest a search for the best idea(s) of what that is. All VFs can fly in both atmosphere and space. FAST packs are added in space to increase range, acceleration, and armament. The comment about FAST packs meant that the VEFR-1 can operate unchanged in both space and atmosphere, but the VE-1 can only operate in space, as FAST packs (it's sensor additions) cannot or are not (going by the anime), not the VF-X games) used in atmosphere. Elintseeker not only finds the enemies' positions, but also assists in relaying information. Therefore there are no VFs under the Elintseeker's control, but without it acting as a relay, all VFs in a certain area would be without a link back to the SDF-1. It's probably better to think of the Elintseeker as a mobile radar station able to go where the SDF-1 cannot go (behind a planet/asteroid/etc., deep into enemy lines) and also to help penetrate enemy ECM in an area.

Yes. He also did an F-15 for that movie that mirrors the F-15 ACTIVE pretty closely; though with better colours.

There are many cameras in different places on a standard VF. It's highly probably that the VEFR-1 has retained those cameras, added more, and has something under the radome. For an example of the camera views available on a standard VF, there's a shot in an episode of SDF:M just after Breetai has bashed Hikaru Ichijo's VF in the head, and destroyed the cameras there. Judging by the angles, it looks like there are cameras in a VF's feet, amongst other places.

Nope. The VEFR-1 is from SDF:M, and though based off of the VF-1, is entirely different! Instead of a head, it has a radome, instead of hands it has sensors. The VE-1 is from DYRL, and is essentially a VF-1 with a different head (no weapons, expanded sensors) and special FAST packs (no weapons, but lots of sensors.) As DYRL is supposed to be a movie produced in-series in the 2030s, one could say that the VE-1 was made post-SWI, whilst the VEFR-1 was made during SWI. As it only shows up near the end (the big battleTM) of SDF:M, one could say that it's a replacement for the Cats Eye Recon plane. You could also say that the VEFR-1 is a modification to an existing plane built during wartime, whilst the VE-1 is a purpose designed plane built during peacetime. The kicker is that the VE-1 could carry and use a gun pod, but it'd be impossible for the VEFR-1! (This is something that is done in the DYRL game for the PS1 and the SS.) Links with images: http://www.mahq.net/mecha/macross/sdfmacross/vefr-1.htm http://www.mahq.net/mecha/macross/dyrl/ve-1.htm

Patlabor II has the helicopter action. Mind you, Patlabor shouldn't be considered an action/mecha show. It's more driven by characters and plot. The action in the movies is great, and they've tried to make it as realistic as the medium allows. That said, the thought provoking parts of Patlabor II are that it's premise is based off of real-world events (the Japanese first overseas SDF mission,) and real-world events copied (or have a screaming simularity to) at least one sequence in the movie (Tokyo sarin gas attack.) So, if you do watch the movie, expect something along the lines of "Clear and Present Danger", and not something silly and no-brainer, like the standard Ah-nold movie. EDIT: it should also be mentioned that Patlabor II is the resolution for the characters. As such, it's got a much greater characterization than Patlabor I (which is all action and plot.) On it's own, it's great, but if you have the chance to see some of the other Patlabor anime first, the movie becomes that much better.

As this piqued my interest, I dug out the TIA Patlabor the Movie and OVA tome that I have. On pg 73, there's a nice picture of the JGSDF SH/JGSDF Hellhound. There's an exhaust port on the right side of the Hellhound (when viewed from the rear.) It's labelled (in typical Shouji Kawamori semi-legible scrawl) as a "counter nozzle" (counter-rotation nozzle). It's amusing that it's only on the one side, and that on the same page, there's an image of the Scout Helicopter, which also has the "counter nozzle", save that it's nozzle looks like it can be rotated to face in opposite directions. The TIA Patlabor Movies II and III books essentially recycle the same images; though II has a few additional images, though none have the "counter nozzle". I think that both artistic liberty has been taken with depicting these nozzles, as well as size not being an issue (what matters is the amount of force being produced by the air being shoved out of the nozzles. A small amount at high speed should produce the same amount of force as a large amount at low speed.)

The Russian Vympel R-73 air-to-air missile also has thrust vectoring. It's significant because it's both the first (TVC A-to-A missile) and entered service in 1985! Though, it too is a 4 plate design.

There was an "alternative" design that showed up in one episode of 2nd Gig (guy is killed but not killed, helicopter goes on autopilot, and takes command of all the other Jigabachi in the area.) But, if I remember correctly, it's look is different from the standard Jigabachi. Mind you, from a marketing point of view, I understand why they are plugging it this way. Agreed that the Commanchero needs a bit of tweaking. Perhaps along the lines of what Shoji Kawamori did to Starscream or the VF-1 (into the VF-0)?

They could've also had IR lights set up illuminating the audience (thought the bag/camera check kindof discounts this.) It'd make recording anything but the sound nigh impossible.