jenius

Okay, I made it just a link instead of an embed... don't know why that pic doesn't work the old fashioned way

You guys talking about this? Click this link to see the picture. Edit - for some reason, that pic didn't want to be linked to, very odd...

Agreed and because we disagree on what a rip-off is many of us are destined to never agree on whether Mospeada was just a rip-off (or, more specifically a Macross Rip-Off). I think we all saw this coming last page. If we were putting it to a vote, I'd say the term "rip-off" should be used for something absolutely blatant and it's probably way better off being used for something in particular. Jean blowing up the Zor ship is a clear scene that is a Star Wars rip-off. The Legioss is a clear mech design that is a Valkyrie rip-off... trying to label things much larger than that is bound to lead to more imperfectly correlated items being lumped together. My piece has been said... sorry if it worked to derail for so long.

While I really like the Toynami/Aoshima sculpt, I do think it's a bit boxy and I dislike the Beta/Tread's cockpit. Obviously there are some QC issues that lead to some horrible problems like crooked Alpha/Legioss heads and arched backs in fighter mode. For those reasons I really have high hopes that CMs is back at the drawing board making necessary tweaks to their design. They clearly are going for a slimmer look (Maybe too slim??) and their reputation seems to indicate that confidence can be had in their final project. In the meantime I think it's time one of those prototype Ride Armors we've been hearing about shows up in some magazine so we have something new to discuss!

For people looking for feedback you seem to be doing a good job at not getting defensive...

Now see, that sounds a whole lot better but I think it's because the emphasis on "macross rip-off" is replaced by the greater meaning of "not terribly original." I totally agree that Mospeada is not terribly original. What I disagree with is that it just rips-off Macross. If the original comment was something like "Mospeada is just Mad Max meets Macross with a story-book ending" I'd go with that. I think the two caveats for other influences/aspects are significant enough to bear stating.

Who is the love triangle in Mospeada? There isn't even a love triangle there. There are a couple quasi-relationships but most of them are just hinted at until completely wrapped up in the end. Juxtapose that to Macross where the love drama is a huge driving force. There are aliens who end up APPEARING human, with no comment as to sexual compatibility 'cause it likely wouldn't be there in Mospeada. There aren't any idol singers winning over aliens in Mospeada unless you mean to include Sorji as all of Inbit kind. The Inbit could care less about culture and you have to admit, the cross-dressing freedom fighter aspect is definitely a twist on Minmay's idol. None of the characters have a Global or Roy guiding them, they just have Stig's single-minded purpose. Who was the big space racist in Macross? Again, a FUTURE space war is a genre, not a rip off. The Inbit restored Earth, they didn't leave it a cratered mess like the Zents did. The Inbit actually saved the Earth from the humans... I missed that theme in Macross. Mospeada is about sneaking around and launching terrorist style attacks (in sometimes flamboyant ways) where Macross was about waiting for the next time the quarreling enemy felt like striking out at the humans. In Mospeada there are plenty of fights against humans, in Macross there's a bit of political jockeying. I find it very easy to point out a few similarities but as Eugimon pointed out, they're usually superficial. If we're going to let "Future space war" become something damning then hell... we're gonna compile a long list of Macross rip-offs. Three mode jets? Sure, Takatoku knew what made money. Aliens that appear human? I'm pretty sure we can't credit Macross with that and it's employment in Mospeada is absolutely different from its employment in Macross. Idol singers? We all seem to acknowledge the fact that they're used in completely different ways, for different means, so basically you're just saying both shows have strong musical elements and yeah, that's not unique in any way.

I think your own comments subvert your own argument though. You admit there is original stuff but you seem to be tainted by knowledge of what could have been rather than judging what it was on its own merits. You're using evidence that the original concept was altered to incorporate more Macross elements to prove that the show is just a rip-off. Well by your definition than Macross is quite clearly a Gundam rip-off isn't it? There's no doubt then that Southern Cross is also a rip-off of previous shows. All of those productions had radically different concepts that were then crafted by a variety of people (all trying to make a dollar... er Yen) into something more LIKE something else. Other than the Legioss though the rip off argument just falls short.

Okay, to be fair, Ginrai's second post did clarify where the emphasis of his quote was and I pretty much missed it the first read through. Still, we know that some people involved with the creation of Macross wanted it to be a lot more like Gundam but we *generally* don't go around calling Macross a Gundam rip-off. Again, I don't think there's a single person who wouldn't say that Mospeada (and Southern Cross) both are clearly influenced by Macross and I doubt anyone would deny both shows wanted some of Macross' success, it's the "rip-off" phrase that just seems to be extreme. The creators of Mospeada were probably dreaming up a very unique story and were then asked to incorporate aspects that had been proven to be successful by Macross, they may be unhappy that they did so, they may blame having done so for part of the lackluster response, that doesn't make the whole thing a rip-off though. The fact they hadn't imagined some of the backgrounds to be a certain way or that there'd be an idol (uh, a cross-dressing one at that) just means that the show was influenced by a need for broader appeal... not that it's a rip-off. Meh, again, we're probably just going into what constitutes "ripping off" to different people again.

Well, we all agreed the Legioss was a bit of a rip-off, it's the entirety of Mospeada being a rip-off that was being debated. Almost every reference to gleaming anything from Macross here is in relation to toy creation and mech (legioss) design. He then thanks Macross and Gundam for creating an environment that allowed them to go about things as they did (again, from a merchandise standpoint).

Really? I guess they both had dream sequences... I'm not too sure on how else they're related.

While not transformable, there actually is a vehicle similar to the Tread in Macross. It's the big triple booster mechanism the Valk needs to launch in to reach orbit shown in the post Rain of Death episodes.

If anyone has a minty stand alone but wants to sell it to get the new gray stand alone that's coming out let me know... I've been lookin' to get one for review purposes

Meh, I think we just have a different opinion of what constitutes a rip-off. While I would never argue that Mospeada wasn't meant to cash-in on the success of Macross by using a formula similar to Macross I would definitely say it falls short of being a rip-off. For me it's like saying all hair bands ever did in the 80s was rip each other off where some would just say they were in the same genre. For me, if Mospeada truly was just a Macross rip-off it could never be lumped together with the original in what became Robotech because everyone would just feel like they were watching a crappier rendition of the first chapter. I've seen lots of discussions on Robotech and not once have I read or heard someone say they felt TNG was just some sloppy rehash of TMS. Obviously it's similar enough to be lumped into Robotech, but a rip-off? Well, if it's a rip-off why wasn't that term thrown around during the Southern Cross podcast? Aliens attack humans, tri-mode vehicles are deployed to save the day, aliens and humans fall in love, music plays some sort of role. Same genre or rip off? Southern Cross has destroids... but they don't look nearly as cool as the unused designs for Mospeada. Macross obviously had a huge influence on many shows after it, and toy manufacturers obviously were looking for a similar cash-in, but just lumping in everything that follows it as a rip-off implies its devoid of new innovation or original thought.

Cool podcast... most everything sounds pretty right on. I think calling the show a Macross rip-off is a bit harsh although I could definitely see the Legioss as a Valk rip-off. While Mospeada is definitely in a similar vein the Inbit are nothing like the Zents, Minmay's singing has an entirely different effect from Yellow's, the ride armor is unlike any Macross design, I'd say the two shows have entirely different feels to them (Macross being more involved). The podcast hints at Batra's blue eye but I think it would have been cool to point out that Batra's evolution is one of those few elements that does actually get carried out over the span of several episodes rather than being nicely encapsulated into one. One other point, the Refless is not a 9' tall woman in the end, she's still transparent, she's just appearing to the group as a human (of sorts). It goes to that whole Inbit collective consciousness thing Stig realizes when he sees all the Inbit being killed in space. Considering how long the podcast was, I could see where packing in anything else might have been impossible anyway. In Animefriend's defense, there work in Mospeada is clearly much better than it was in Macross (albeit still mediocre).

The velcro flaps aren't quite deciders. The VF-1J supers have velcro as does the VF-1A low vis and they're version 2s.

I used to race cars and "Perfect Drug" was one hell of an anthem. Man, those were the days.... and they were many days ago.

Stories this long should be broken into two and made into an extra film. Move the plot point around to make a faux ending, add another film, make more money. Seems like an easy equation to me... but I'm glad I'm not the one having to do it. I'm no Harry Potter guy, never read the books, but I've enjoyed the movies so far. I always like hearing people who have read the books comments and then contrasting them against completely un-initiated people like myself's opion.

Worst is Hayao's DYRL scheme... they screwed up his head laser. I love the unique paint schemes like the Angelbirds, VF-1A LV (1 or 2), Stealth (kinda drab) and the TV VF-1J team. The DYRL schemes are all meh with the exception of Roy's since it has so much sentimental appeal. From a QC stand point, my CF-1A and Angelbirds 1A had the worst, my Stealth had the best but I agree with everyone else that it's just a crapshoot and they're all pretty similar.

I totally agree. The colors themselves might look cool but these are just too conservative. A two-tone pattern could have been optimal but I think after the butchering of the red/white valks they decided the fans wanted something boring. Sadly red/white valks could have been awesome if the paint job hadn't been so... odd.

Well I said I'd do a review of this toy once it was probably sold out everywhere and I put the review up today. Not sure if this thing is sold out everywhere but I suspect it's close. If you're familiar with the thread you won't really find any new info in the review, seems like most the people who bought one pretty much have the exact same thing to say about it -

I heard the PS3 is noisy enough to making it a sub-par blu-ray player for people with high-end entertainment centers... like during really quiet suspenseful portions of films you'll hear the PS3 whirling away. Any truth to that?

Ugh, I liked the Auroran a whole lot more when I had forgotten exactly what it looked like... strike 3 for the Southern Cross mecha designs...

Since it's back in stock, instead of a preorder, isn't it possible that HLJ just found a few boxes of these or maybe picked some up for ridiculously cheap off some vendor that just wanted to clear inventory?

I've noticed this as well.