JB0 Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 Maybe why the VF-1 looks so much less like the VF-0 is because it was created much earlier? The 0 looks much more modern than the 1 because it was designed in 2004. Makes me wonder what the VF-1 would be like if Macross Zero was the first series production wise. I think the discussion is for an in-universe excuse. Of course, it could be that the VF-1 IS as teched-up/covered-in-extra-bits as the VF-0 and limitations of 80s-era animation hid most of the bits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badboy00z Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 I wonder if SK himself have an in-universe reason? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 I wonder if SK himself have an in-universe reason? I'm sure he doesn't. Why bother when you've got a ready-made obsessive fan-base willing to do all that work for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchizophrenicMC Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 A tiny bit off-topic, but if Yamato made a PT VF-0D, I'd buy it in a heartbeat, no matter the QC... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HangPC2 Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 From what the Compendium has said as that most of the Earths government had come together to create the U.N. Spacy then you have other sub-branches of the U.N. such as the Air Force, Navy and Armed Forces. Heres an excert from the Compendium: 1999 December According to the first report of the ASS-1 study, the alien spaceship is determined to be a war vessel, and its alien crew to be giants whose height is five times that of Humans. In preparation for alien warfare, a plan is drafted to unify the countries of Earth and to establish an Earth United Nations Government. 2000 March Establishment of OTEC, an alien technology analysis research institute, through joint Japanese-American-Russian[soviet]-[West] German-English-French collaboration. April Research on anti-giant combat weaponry systems ([later designated as] Battroid and Destroid) begins. The name U.N. Spacy has become an arguement to which its REAL name is derrivited from, to me, I like to call it the United Nations Space Agency, others have their own saying on what it is but also, its still an official meaning. Here is another thing I caught eye of on the Compendium... 2007 January 20 Conclusion of United Nations Wars. January Training center for SDF-1 crew established on South Ataria Island. February The VF-X nontransformable flight test vehicle as well as the VF-X1 prototype variable fighter begins first flight tests. Rollout of MBR-04-Mk I. March Stationing of Destroids aboard the SLV-111 Daedalus begins. May Construction on Grand Cannon V begins in the Brazilian Autonomous Region in South America. June Space tests of the VF-X1 begins. November Decision made to formally adopt the VF-X1. VF-1 series mass production begins. Rollout of MBR-04-Mk IV [Mk III] Tomahawk. 2007-2008 Macross Zero The United Nations government and Anti-United Nations forces secretly develop the VF-0 and SV-51 respectively while disputing over a recently discovered phenomenon on the island of Mayan in the South Pacific Ocean. (The events are kept secret for at least five decades.) It says the VF-1 was mass produced earlier to the VF-0, which it states 2007-2008 for Macross Zero, but no approximate month, possibly late November of 2007? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vostok 7 Posted December 27, 2008 Author Share Posted December 27, 2008 (edited) From what the Compendium has said as that most of the Earths government had come together to create the U.N. Spacy then you have other sub-branches of the U.N. such as the Air Force, Navy and Armed Forces. Heres an excert from the Compendium: 1999 December According to the first report of the ASS-1 study, the alien spaceship is determined to be a war vessel, and its alien crew to be giants whose height is five times that of Humans. In preparation for alien warfare, a plan is drafted to unify the countries of Earth and to establish an Earth United Nations Government. 2000 March Establishment of OTEC, an alien technology analysis research institute, through joint Japanese-American-Russian[soviet]-[West] German-English-French collaboration. April Research on anti-giant combat weaponry systems ([later designated as] Battroid and Destroid) begins. The name U.N. Spacy has become an arguement to which its REAL name is derrivited from, to me, I like to call it the United Nations Space Agency, others have their own saying on what it is but also, its still an official meaning. Here is another thing I caught eye of on the Compendium... 2007 January 20 Conclusion of United Nations Wars. January Training center for SDF-1 crew established on South Ataria Island. February The VF-X nontransformable flight test vehicle as well as the VF-X1 prototype variable fighter begins first flight tests. Rollout of MBR-04-Mk I. March Stationing of Destroids aboard the SLV-111 Daedalus begins. May Construction on Grand Cannon V begins in the Brazilian Autonomous Region in South America. June Space tests of the VF-X1 begins. November Decision made to formally adopt the VF-X1. VF-1 series mass production begins. Rollout of MBR-04-Mk IV [Mk III] Tomahawk. 2007-2008 Macross Zero The United Nations government and Anti-United Nations forces secretly develop the VF-0 and SV-51 respectively while disputing over a recently discovered phenomenon on the island of Mayan in the South Pacific Ocean. (The events are kept secret for at least five decades.) It says the VF-1 was mass produced earlier to the VF-0, which it states 2007-2008 for Macross Zero, but no approximate month, possibly late November of 2007? The compendium states that the VF-0 began development in 2004 which is around the same time as the VF-1 began development. My guess is the VF-1 began mass production of the airframes in Nov. 2007 but weren't in a state to be fully delivered until late 2008. Despite the Nov. 2007 date, canon still states the first operational use of the VF-1 was Feb. 2009 at the beginning of SW1, which was also it's rollout date. It's certainly possible airframes sat around for close to a year before the engines were delivered. Meanwhile, the VF-0 filled the spot the VF-1 would have (and probably would have been used front-line had the Zentraedi attacked before Feb. 2009), the VF-0 being simpler using standard OT equipment for the time (and probably could have been mass produced quickly had the need arisen). Vostok 7 Edited December 27, 2008 by Vostok 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchizophrenicMC Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 The first VF-1 rolled out in November 2008. I read that somewhere. Maybe the compendium, maybe Mr March's M3... I forget. However, this sounds plausible, as they weren't deployed into Active Duty status until February 9, 2009, the date of the SDF-1 launch. It's my thinking that the VF-0 and VF-1 were designed separately, similar to the YF-22 and 23. Then, they were meant to be tested against each other. However, the VF-0 didn't perform as well, was larger, and costed more than the VF-1. (Compared to the data gathered from the VFX-1.) So, they were scrapped. The fact that the 0's a Northrop Grumman and the 1's a Northrom makes it a tough sell, but... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobbes221 Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 Hey check this out someone has been listening to us rant. I just ordered both model graphix #290 and #291 for kicks, (and I'm and sucker for VF-4s - damnit) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letigre Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 It's my thinking that the VF-0 and VF-1 were designed separately, similar to the YF-22 and 23. Then, they were meant to be tested against each other. However, the VF-0 didn't perform as well, was larger, and costed more than the VF-1. (Compared to the data gathered from the VFX-1.) So, they were scrapped. The fact that the 0's a Northrop Grumman and the 1's a Northrom makes it a tough sell, but... I had the same idea..except it was between the VF-0/1 and the SV-51, with the VF obviously being the victor for whatever reason. But the Sukhoi lead team, maybe feeling a bit burned by the heavv loss (either from development costs it's unable to recoop, or feeling jilted by an uneven contest) may have been eager to sell the design to anyone. That would lead to how the Anti-UN came to possess a variable fighter designed and built(?) by companies in UN- aligned countries. Shrug. Just food for thought. And as for Northrup-Grumman/ Northrom, it's either just a quiet retcon, or maybe an allusion that the company either merged or had a name change between the times of building the VF-0 and the VF-1. The latter seems more likely to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchizophrenicMC Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 The thing about the SV-51 is that the UNSpacy knew little to nothing about it, except what had been collected by close reconnaisance. I don't think the competition was VF-0 vs SV-51. My evidence is: VF-1 and VF-0 were developed around the same timeframe Both are UNS craft Both are developed by UN National companies (Northrom and Northrop Grumman. Separate until otherwise disproved) The companies are paid to construct the prototypes. Sukhoi wouldn't have sustained a loss, unless they went into premature production. (Though option 3's most likely) Are we sure the UN in Macross is the same UN as in real-life? Perhaps their UN still has Russia as a communist union, including all of its Soviet Republics. Since it was originally written in 1982, it could be. The SV-51 performs better than the VF-0. Almost always, performance is chosen over cost. The YF-23 was kicked, because its performance was lacking, compared to the 22. (On a side note, the YF-19 was picked, due to the YF-21 being too costly AND dangerous to the pilot. The Brain Control system was too sensitive and the BDI caused people to go insane.) That's my piece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruskiiVFaussie Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 (edited) Again, was it the BDI that made Guld a psycho (not really a psycho but..) or was it his Zentran blood? Where's the proof of that statement? Only reason i believe the 21 was not given the green compared to the conventional 22 is the BDi was overally expensive, and the extra training frowned apon. I hope Mr K coms back with another OVA detailing the Anti UN vs UN Spacy war... that'd be cool. What happened when Hikaru(?) and Max(M7) went separate ways, whats the story back at home After Mac Plus and in between II (Earth)? Edited December 28, 2008 by ruskiiVFaussie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchizophrenicMC Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 It wouldn't be a stretch to say they checked the BCS records from the -21 and found out the system's too sensitive, as Guld just thinking about crashing Isamu made it crash Isamu... Yes, BDI made him crazy, however, the YF-21 can't function without it. Think about it! You can't collect data fast enough through just your eyes to run the BCS on the thing, therefore BDI is necessary to keep you up with what's happening. Moving on, Hikaru was stationed aboard Megaroad-01, which, I believe, is missing, non? Max was stationed aboard the SDF-1, defending New Macross City while the SDF-1 was refit, and later, placed in charge of the NMC Macross 7. Mac+ - II (That's a bit of time, ain't it? Like 60 years' time...), I've no clue, besides Mac7 and Frontier... Back to the YF-21, the -19's known to be cheaper, requires no extra training or augmentation, and has no control system bugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruskiiVFaussie Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 (edited) BDI is supposed to be sensitive. too sensitive? depends if the pilot has issues. Guld had issues. I'd like to see someone like Max or Isamu get a try at the BDI. They seem to be in more control of themselves. Guld was an angry angry man. His anger combined with Zentran blood is why the 21 and BDI failed overall. Conventional wins! Reserve the BDI for zen masters or something lol. Moving on - We could fit in an Anti UN vs UN SPacy battle in the timeline somewhere when Max goes M7 couldn't we? Have an ace still holding onto the classic memory of the SV-51 (as in bring it back just coz it's awesome, maybe update it???), and a new gen of Anti-UN VF under his/her command. Cool. Edited December 28, 2008 by ruskiiVFaussie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchizophrenicMC Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 Er... No, because the Anti-UN's gone. When earth was bombarded, pretty much everything was destroyed. That includes the Anti-UN and any remaining SV-51s. The thing is, he simply imagined the VF-11 crashing, and it happened. The BCS should have to take well-thought-out commands, not "If the YF-21 creates a downward force... Yes." It don't matter how crazy Guld is in the head, BCS sucks. And without it, the YF-21's the same as any other valk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anime52k8 Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 I remember comment or discussion somewhere that part of why the BCS failed was because Guld was part zentradi. had he been fully human it would have worked better. also a big part of why he was going borderline psychotic was the BDI, sensory overload and too much information for the brain to process at once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchizophrenicMC Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 Well, anyway, we're OTing again... This is about VF-0s, not Guld Goa Bowman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MjrMisaHayase Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 Are you saying that there was RETCONNING going on in Macross Zero!!!!!???? Taksraven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr March Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 The first VF-1 rolled out in November 2008. I read that somewhere. Maybe the compendium, maybe Mr March's M3... I forget. However, this sounds plausible, as they weren't deployed into Active Duty status until February 9, 2009, the date of the SDF-1 launch. At the time I wrote my VF-0 article, there was no information about when the VF-0 was designed or built, so I included only the deployment date (2008). It appears new information has been added to the compendium, so I'll update my VF-0 profiles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honkhet Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 At the time I wrote my VF-0 article, there was no information about when the VF-0 was designed or built, so I included only the deployment date (2008). It appears new information has been added to the compendium, so I'll update my VF-0 profiles. i'm definitely one of the people who'd be very glad hearing that the vf-0 is actually later in the time line than the vf-1 once and for all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HangPC2 Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 Hey check this out someone has been listening to us rant. I just ordered both model graphix #290 and #291 for kicks, (and I'm and sucker for VF-4s - damnit) VF-0 " Moth Ball " Boneyard (Aircraft Graveyard) At Tucson Arizona Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchizophrenicMC Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 i'm definitely one of the people who'd be very glad hearing that the vf-0 is actually later in the time line than the vf-1 once and for all Funny thing about that: The VF-1's still in service during the Frontier Era. Given, it's mostly in reserve forces, but... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruskiiVFaussie Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 (edited) I don't see why there can't be a new Anti-UN force, we are human, it's in our blood to fight each other, amongst ourselves. It'd be hard to leave the Earths atmosphere and venture secretly into space un-detected, so you could be right about the Anti-UN being obliterated, but an outside chance would be the planettory stations (or part of) {for example, Mars Base} rebel against, and plan sever themselves from the UN and ohh i dunno. I just want to see some human vs human again, Marduk was cool and all.. Being same scale lol. Edited January 6, 2009 by ruskiiVFaussie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchizophrenicMC Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 I don't see why there can't be a new Anti-UN force, we are human, it's in our blood to fight each other, amongst ourselves. It'd be hard to leave the Earths atmosphere and venture secretly into space un-detected, so you could be right about the Anti-UN being obliterated, but an outside chance would be the planettory stations (or part of) {for example, Mars Base} rebel against, and plan sever themselves from the UN and ohh i dunno. I just want to see some human vs human again, Marduk was cool and all.. Being same scale lol. But, after the bombardment, very few were left alive on Earth. The survivors were over 90% residents of the SDF-1. All of them were UN-supportive. (All but one... Friggin Kaifun... I woulda had him thrown out an airlock, if I was Gloval...) Maybe later on, people warred once more, but I doubt it was UN/Anti-UN. It was probably UN/Terrorist Group. Or, as we have proof of, due to the purpose of Supernova, civil unrest in colony planets... I will say this: The Zentraedi took 40 years to stop fighting. We ARE 99% the same, you know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruskiiVFaussie Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 (edited) De-Culture! Zentran were culture shocked into submission, we have been living with Culture for years, and it gets taken for granted. They were born and bred warriors, which i'll attempt to take point again with Guld having "anger" problems and fudging up the BDI. Yes yes it's too sensitive. Kaifun needed a bullet period. ! DYRL? Kaifun was cool though. Man is sick, too easily corrupted, totally see a war breaking out one way or the other. Would love a break away group to take on the UN, like PIRATES ARRR!!! Retcon i don't care. I like Pirates. Kamjin was a pirate, selfish glory seeking manical war mongerring badass! Edited January 6, 2009 by ruskiiVFaussie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Kaifun just sucked. If I were Gloval, I woulda had security throw him out an airock. Friggin Kaifun... I woulda had him thrown out an airlock, if I was Gloval... Once again...who's Gloval? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badboy00z Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Funny thing about that: The VF-1's still in service during the Frontier Era. Given, it's mostly in reserve forces, but... And you know this how? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB0 Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 But, after the bombardment, very few were left alive on Earth. The survivors were over 90% residents of the SDF-1. Actually, most of them WEREN'T from the Macross. http://macross.anime.net/wiki/Macross_Class has the Macross as carrying 40,000 civilians at the end, and 20k of the Spacey guys and gals. So 60k total. http://macross.anime.net/wiki/2010 Check down in the month of March. There were several hundred thousand survivors. Though it doesn't really change the general gist of your argument. The ones on Earth were sheltered in the incomplete Grand Cannons. And I'm doubtful that the people in space were just your average Joes. If I had to guess, Apollo Base was probably a lot like Macross City in that the main reason most of the people were there was the construction of the SDF 2. And it's almost a given that everyone hiding in the Grand Cannons was involved with the 'Cannons in some way. So still generally pro-military people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchizophrenicMC Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Actually, most of them WEREN'T from the Macross. http://macross.anime.net/wiki/Macross_Class has the Macross as carrying 40,000 civilians at the end, and 20k of the Spacey guys and gals. So 60k total. http://macross.anime.net/wiki/2010 Check down in the month of March. There were several hundred thousand survivors. Though it doesn't really change the general gist of your argument. The ones on Earth were sheltered in the incomplete Grand Cannons. And I'm doubtful that the people in space were just your average Joes. If I had to guess, Apollo Base was probably a lot like Macross City in that the main reason most of the people were there was the construction of the SDF 2. And it's almost a given that everyone hiding in the Grand Cannons was involved with the 'Cannons in some way. So still generally pro-military people. Well... The point stands... It was mostly UN Military people... And I was under the impression that the UNSpacy forces in orbit were wiped out by the zentraedi, and Mars was abandoned years ago. Dammit, Gubaba! The sub I watched spelt it Gloval. Do you spell Britai "Vritwahl"? Is Kamjin "Qamzin"? At least V and B are iffy in Japanese... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bri Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 (edited) Information about the 2 year period just after the space war I ended is so vague. From what I can tell from the compendium is that they base their information on the 8 page article "The lost two years" by Kawamori from the Macross Perfect Memory book. Wonder if there is a translation, afaik the article is in Japanese. Edited January 7, 2009 by Bri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB0 Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 (edited) Well... The point stands... It was mostly UN Military people... And I was under the impression that the UNSpacy forces in orbit were wiped out by the zentraedi, and Mars was abandoned years ago. Right. Doesn't change the gist of the argument, just the numbers. Even if the orbital facilities were all destroyed(which makes sense to me, personally), that still leaves the Moon. We know the SDF-2 was started BEFORE SW1 and it survived the final battle, since it was redesigned into the Megaroad 1 after the war. Not sure where Mars comes into things. It's not mentioned, and it got blowed up good anyways. Information about the 2 year period just after the space war I ended is so vague. From what I can tell from the compendium is that they base their information on the 8 page article "The lost two years" by Kawamori from the Macross Perfect Memory book. Wonder if there is a translation, afaik the article is in Japanese. There actually IS a translation. I was gonna say it's on the board, but I did a search and they were hosted off-site. The website is gone now, so... It's a good thing I'm a packrat! I'll upload it here. Macross_Outside_Story__The_Lost_Two_Years.pdf Edited January 7, 2009 by JB0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anime52k8 Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 There actually IS a translation. I was gonna say it's on the board, but I did a search and they were hosted off-site. The website is gone now, so... It's a good thing I'm a packrat! I'll upload it here. Macron Meltrandi wrestling, yum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bri Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 (edited) There actually IS a translation. I was gonna say it's on the board, but I did a search and they were hosted off-site. The website is gone now, so... It's a good thing I'm a packrat! I'll upload it here. Wow, thanks a lot. Really apreciate the effort Edited January 8, 2009 by Bri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bri Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Very interesting article (Macross the Lost 2 years). On the survivors of the Spacewar I: Less then 1% survivors on the surface after Zentradi bombardement = less then 60 million humans. 8 million Zentradi fighting on the human side survive the space war. Limits the number of Zentradi ships the UN Spacy had before the aquisition of the factory satellite to a maximum of a few thousand. Unknown number of hostile Zentradi ships folded out after destruction of their command ships (from Exedore's battlestrategy from episode 26 SDFM) Ground war after landing of the macross costs another 2 million lives. This was before the uprising of Kamjin and co. Shortly after the war Hikaru is stationed on the moon for a while indicating the moon base survived with an unknown number of people. No mention of cloning of humans/Zentradi. Probably done after the capture of the factory sattelite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valkyriepilot Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Very interesting article (Macross the Lost 2 years). On the survivors of the Spacewar I: Less then 1% survivors on the surface after Zentradi bombardement = less then 60 million humans. wow, the Philippines got more people than post-bombardment Earth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchizophrenicMC Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 wow, the Philippines got more people than post-bombardment Earth If we can all fit in Texas, as is, what about post-bombardment Earth? That's got to make it pretty roomy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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