vf-24 Posted November 1, 2003 Share Posted November 1, 2003 I remember this discussion too. It's o.k. to complain and vent as long as you state some possible solutions to the problem otherwise you just sound like a complainer and no one can help you or ease your discomfort. no one likes to hear a complainer...gives us all headaches. remember to just buy what you like and don't buy what you don't. for me, I bought a vf-1s and a max 1-a. i'm disappointed on the construction of the backpack hinge and made suggestions to yamato as to how they could improve it but until they do, i choose not to purchase anymore of their fighters cause i don't think it's worth my money. my choice and my contentment. like hurin stated, nothing is perfect and by keeping that in mind, work on satisfaction. if a product or a company doesn't satisfy you, learn from that experience and move forward. bare in mind, i'm not trying to "knock anyone down", just trying to help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurin Posted November 1, 2003 Share Posted November 1, 2003 Ack...sorry Hurin too much quoting going on for me to read No apolgies necessary. By now, even I'm sick of me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VF-1Guy Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 (edited) I don't think that the Hikaru 1S will interfere with the eventual release of a Max & Milia or much of anything else for that matter. The Hikaru allows Yamato to fill a release time slot and to get some easy money while they finish getting the Hikaru 1J ready for release. This money will help to fund the R&D costs of creating new and original toys like the Q-Rau, GPB, Mac 0, etc. Creating a varient doesn't involve too much R&D cost, but creating a new toy certainly does. I'm going from memory here, but it seems that the 1/48 releases have followed a mostly consistent pattern so far. I expect the next 1/48 after the Hikaru J to be a Max J or Milia J, the D may be too much of a risk at the 1/48 price point. I also expect to see another A or two before they are done. 1/60 1/48 1st Hikaru A Hikaru A 2nd TRU CF Roy S 3rd Roy S Max A 4th Max A Low Viz (new age CF?) 5th Roy Strike Hikaru S (can be a strike using the FP kit) 6th Hikaru J FP Hikaru J FP 7th D 8th M&M 9th VE & VT Edited November 2, 2003 by VF-1Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gokurakumaru Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 Uh, they are selling the armor for $45-60 because it is more complicated, being a "complicated" set of "six pieces."In other words, there is profit in it for them. Try not to make my arguments for me. OK, I'll try not to make arguments for you. I'll just paraphrase posters and use quotes from this thread. People would prefer a separate head than buying a whole new Valkyrie? Check. People would prefer to buy it out of the box and not need to model it themselves? Check. People are willing to pay half the price of a new Valkyrie for some tack on armour? Check. Tell me that selling heads for $20-$25 wouldn't be pure profit for a toy line that's "languishing" on the shelves presumably because it's too damned expensive to buy what is basically the same thing time and time again. You pointing out the good business of ripping people off on fast packs doesn't mean heads aren't just as smart a sales move. It's just a double standard. And another thing. . . I'm not berating anyone here. Don't feel the need to single yourself out. Pretty much everyone jumped on the guy with varying degress of vigour for what stands as a pretty legitimate complaint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurin Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 Wow, so many assumptions: People are willing to pay half the price of a new Valkyrie for some tack on armour? Check. "tack on?" I suggest you look at the amount of detail, stenciled lettering, the weight, and the "square footage (inch-age?)" of material used for the FAST Packs. . . do you even own any? These things are more detailed, heavier, and substantial than the valks themselves! You pointing out the good business of ripping people off on fast packs doesn't mean heads aren't just as smart a sales move. It's just a double standard. Again, who says the FAST Packs are a rip-off?!? Well, besides you, I mean. Have you taken the covers off the armor?!? There is much more detail and quality in these things than the valks themselves! So, to be honest, I'm really not sure what the heck you're talking about. In my experience, almost everyone who has bought the FAST Packs love 'em. I don't feel ripped off. Considering they are so detailed and use almost as much material as a valk, I think half the price of a valk (less actually) is just fine. So, do you also think the valks are over-priced?!? Is anything Yamato does worth the money to you? If not, I've got a fair suggestion, don't buy 'em. Tell me that selling heads for $20-$25 wouldn't be pure profit for a toy line that's "languishing" on the shelves presumably because it's too damned expensive to buy what is basically the same thing time and time again. Can you imagine what people like you would say if they started selling only the heads for $25!?! Talk about a rip off! There would be a virtual riot here! It would take mere seconds for someone to write: "That head only takes $2 tops to manufacture! The greed! The greed!" Repeating the same myth over and over again doesn't make it true. Monkey-N makes one post about how he doesn't think Macross is a hot property in Japan anymore. . . and suddenly the sky is falling and valks are "languishing on the shelves." News flash: The VF-1S Roy sold out. . . the VF-1A Hukaru sold out. . . the Low-Vis sold out. . . the Max 1A uh. . . didn't sell out, and I don't even have one of those. . . so I guess I'm pretty representative of the market, cuz it just didn't excite me. Hey wait, maybe I should have come here and started bitching and moaning that they shouldn't make a Max cuz dammit, it's just so unfair! And, even if there were 1As, and 1Ss "languishing" on the shelves. . . that is not necessarily a bad thing. I see the same darn toys every time I visit KB, and I don't immediately think that all those manufacturers must be going out of business! My God! Look! Those Spider-Man 12" figures are languishing!. . . languishing I tell you! H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurin Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 (edited) Ah, Goku. . . your last post reminding me of this. . . I wonder how many people defending CEOs and the virtues of capitalism would be singing the same tune if they had to buy Super/Strike Valkyrie versions as an entirely new Valkyrie with the parts molded on. I doubt anyone was fired over the super parts being interchangable and available separately. You keep coming back to how things are overpriced. . . which together with this comment, leads me to believe that you have a problem with free markets (the non-socialist word for capitalism). Well, before you start bashing capitalism, I suggest you consider that in a purely socialist and/or communist state, there would be no Macross toys. Indeed, there would be no Macross. In a non-free market, where all means of production are owned by the state, can you imagined the "Peope's Committee for Resource Distribution" deciding to set aside resources for transforming robotic toys? Much less funding the development of a television series starring futuristic robots? It doesn't happen. Because, of course, they are too busy distributing the meager amounts of food and material that such economies produce "fairly". . . so that, of course, everyone is equally poor. Woohoo! Let's bring everyone down to the lowest common denominator and call it "fairness." But that's a topic for another forum. Let's bring it back to Macross. . . Yamato will do what makes the most business sense. That means maximizing profits while not completely alienating the customer-base. Had they molded the FAST Packs onto the valks themselves and demanded we buy another one for $200, I know I wouldn't have bought one. They know this, so they didn't do it that way (and indeed, planned all along to have FAST Pack accessories sold seperately). If they thought the consumer would have stood for it, they would have done it. But the market has a way of balancing things out. Keep in mind, the cost of producing something has no bearing on the price of an item. The price is determined by what the market is willing to pay! In this case, the middle-ground was found as being non-swappable heads and seperate FAST Packs. You think that not selling the heads seperately is ridiculous, but they know that enough people will buy the complete valk with the 1S head anyways, and they'll make more money doing that than selling the heads themselves. So what makes the most sense for them to do? Again, what you think is fair --though it plays a role (in the aggregate) in determining price and product selection-- isn't the most important thing in a free market system. Having your obviously strong feelings on the matter so blithely ignored by Yamato is the price you pay for living in a system that actually allows you the choice of having Macross toys. H Edited November 2, 2003 by Hurin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gokurakumaru Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 I didn't bash capitalism or even mention overpricing in the quote in your second post. If you don't have anything to actually rebut, save the second post, thanks. What I did do was use that comment to show a double standard in the "sold separately is bad business" argument. People said a CEO who approved separate heads should be fired. People don't seem to realize selling super parts as a separate package (because the Valkyrie underneath is the exact same thing and doesn't warrant reselling with super parts) is the exact same thing. As for not alienating the customers, read the thread. They already have at least one, and everyone else just seems to be dealing with it rather than happy with it. I honestly don't believe people wouldn't buy a molded super Valkyrie if the armor is as good as you say it is. People buy duplicate Valkyries for nothing more than a head and by your own admission it isn't worth $20 on its own. Your whole argument is based on a double standard. "I wouldn't buy it if it was $200." Not that buying them separately costs $200 anyhow, but we'll let your argument's need for exaggeration slide. You already have what, two 1/48s? You're paying for a paint scheme or a head for crying out loud. Yeah, maybe you wouldn't buy Roy and then Roy with super parts, but for models you don't have would you consider the extra outlay? I really doubt you'd arbitrarily pass on something that's genuinely different rather than just a colour swap just simply because it'd cost 5000 yen more Yamato netting 1:1 super part sales for the majority of Valkyrie sales they made would hardly be bad business. And for the record I don't have a problem with capitalism and don't care what Yamato charges. I haven't bought a 1/48 yet and now the Ichijo VF-1S and super parts are available it's probably a good time to. I just find it rich that you all beat down someone who obviously does care and has a right to complain as a consumer, simply because he "doesn't have to buy it." Being thrifty and valuing a buck doesn't make someone a socialist or communist or dissatisfied with the system that brought them Macross toys. It's offensive. Get over yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightning Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 the reason why for the "no on the separate heads" is that Big West didnt want them. in other words, what Big West says on Macross, goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LePoseur Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 (edited) Not to add some more fuel to the fire, but here goes... Hikaru DYRL 1S is currently sold out at TRU-J (both the individual fighter and the "limited" bundled pack) This pisses me off! Now I have to decide if I'm gonna pound the pavement looking in shop windows to see if I can find one, or wait to see if they'll have an eventual restock. "SUCKER!" you might say, "That's what you get for not pre-ordering!" Well, well, well... Let me tell you my preordering story. TRU-J usually puts a picture up a few days before they give a pre-order button. Then once they've sold out, they'll sometimes leave the picture up (and 9 times out of ten get a restock) or yank it (when nine times out of ten it doesn't come back). Well, I saw the Hikaru 1S picture go up and started checking daily for that preorder button. Came home from work one day and the entries were already gone. I guess somebody here wants 'em as TRU-J sold out pretty fast. Not only that, but their entries for Hikaru's 1A and Focker's 1S also went from no-preorder yet to nothing more to buy before I could get one in for a new 1A. Now Hikaru's 1A is even off the site... making me think I'll have to shop around or even hit Yahoo.co.jp's auctions. (speaking of which even the lowest priced Hikaru 1S is currently more than TRU was selling them for... on the other hand, if you ever wanted to get into the 1/60's for cheap, you should see some of the people dumping theirs at very nice prices) Anyhow... Edited November 2, 2003 by LePoseur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EXO Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 Uh, I called them morons when it came to coming up with catchy English names and phrases. I'm about to call you a moron for being unable to read. My 1/48 was a POS and the things I complained about were apparently fixed in the Low-Viz. So.........just because I didn't start a million dollar anti-Yamato campaign to stop everyone from buying it I lack marketing saavy? Brilliant, absolutely brilliant. People bought it because it was the only thing out there at the time! The total lack or resale value on the thing shows that it's an inferior toy. The only saving grace for it is that it was the first ever made. That may cause it to be worth something to someone one of these days... (DOUBTFUL.) As for spelling................ I dunno about you but I still go by SPO quite happily. Take a look at my sig if you can read it. Uh... yeah and English speaking people are brilliant when it comes to Japanese... Calling a whole nation names for something you dislike shows your maturity and wit. And there was nothing wrong with the Hikaru 1A canopy. That problem didn't show up until the Roy's 1S came out along with the crooked skull, so the fact that you got a lemon doesn't reflect on the company that you eagerly jumped to give money to. I'm still amissed at the fact that you tried to sell it at the price you got it for, I'm sure if you would have calculated the fact that you had to pry it open to fix it and all the crap you talked about it, someone would have snapped it up at a fair price. I had no problem even trading my Hikaru for a Max when that came out. And people bought it because it was the only thing out there at the time? What's that about? Are you saying there were no other choices? Are you saying that the Bandai reissues, the 1/60s and even the wonderful MPCs were all sold out? Hahaha... I love the way you magically justify things... it was the best thing out there at the time. And it still is. So which is it? Are the Japanese morons because English is their second or third language or are they inciteful because they are leaving the the product that you hate on the shelves? First you insult them, then you trust their intelligence enough to guage the market based on their spending habits... Finally, maybe you should be the one to reread my post and check if I called you names... you can see I don't have to go down to your level... anyway, I'm checking out of this thread, you can call me all the names that you want, I can tell your ignorance and self centeredness equals that of your belligerence, and I'm not about to waste my time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurin Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 (edited) Sweet merciful crap! There is so much wrong here I don't even know where to begin. . . I didn't bash capitalism or even mention overpricing in the quote in your second post. Hmmmm. . . bashing capitalism I wonder how many people defending CEOs and the virtues of capitalism. . . There is an implicit criticizm of capitalism there. . . overpricing You pointing out the good business of ripping people off on fast packs doesn't mean heads aren't just as smart a sales move. It's just a double standard. You're the one talking about the FAST Packs being a rip-off. How is calling something a rip-off not a complaint about price?!? What I did do was use that comment to show a double standard in the "sold separately is bad business" argument. Well, you seem to think you did. . . but let's see. . . People said a CEO who approved separate heads should be fired. People don't seem to realize selling super parts as a separate package (because the Valkyrie underneath is the exact same thing and doesn't warrant reselling with super parts) is the exact same thing. Oh dear lord. Do you actually believe that?!? Selling heads will cause them to sell fewer valks for a minimal profit to Yamato. If anything, it would lower profits. Because, for each head they sell, that's possibly one fewer valk that they would sell. Whereas, the FAST Packs are always profit on top of a valk sale. To say that selling seperate heads and selling seperate FAST Packs are the "exact same thing" is ludicrous. One makes it so that they will almost definitely sell fewer valks. The other actually encourages the purchase of more valks while adding revenue to the company through the sale of the FAST Packs themselves! In other words, the results for Yamato couldn't be more different. The only way it would make sense for Yamato to sell valkyrie heads would be if they could price them so that the income from the heads would outweigh the loss of revenue from not being able to sell a Hikaru 1S, etc. And, that would be a mighty expensive head. So expensive that I don't think it would be feasible. As I said before, at that point, you'd all be complaining about the price of the head, anyways. So why not just stick with the whining we've got. And, of course, word is that Big West nixed the whole "seperate heads" thing. . . so it's all moot. Not that I think Yamato would have done it even had it been possible. It just doesn't make good business sense. As for not alienating the customers, read the thread. They already have at least one, and everyone else just seems to be dealing with it rather than happy with it. Oh no, not one!!! As for everyone dealing with it rather than being happy. . . that's exactly what Yamato wants. A company wants to split the difference in price. . . so that you're neither thrilled, nor pissed. Yamato doesn't want you thrilled that you payed an incredibly low price. . . they want you to pay as much as they can get out of you, while not quite hating Yamato for it. This is Business 101, my friend. I honestly don't believe people wouldn't buy a molded super Valkyrie if the armor is as good as you say it is. I don't even know what to say here. You think people wouldn't hate Yamato for permanently affixing the FAST Packs to 1/48s and selling them like that? I'm sorry, we'd all hate it. Yamato knows we'd hate it. . . and that is why they didn't do it. As I said, they want to maximize profits without totally alienating their customers. Doing something as stupid as not offering the 1/48 FAST Packs as a seperate kit would be just the sort of thing to alienate many. It's not good business, and they know that. Which, is, of course, why they didn't do it. Somehow, because you inexplicably believe that the "seperate" head concept is exactly the same, you think this is somehow conceding a point. But, well, it isn't. For more on why most of us would hate permanently affixed FAST Packs, see below ("Bandai spoiled us. . ") People buy duplicate Valkyries for nothing more than a head and by your own admission it isn't worth $20 on its own. Again, that's just not true. I'm not sure you're aware of this, but when I buy another valk, I can actually get to stand that valk next to the other ones. . . and then there are. . . wait for it. . . multiple valks. I can have Hikaru next to Roy! What would make a Macross geek happier. To say that people are buying the valk "for nothing more than the head" is just simplistic. Yes, there are some who don't see the point in having each valk side-by-side. But I think most people who buy multiple valks are happy to have an entirely new one to set by their existing ones. Your whole argument is based on a double standard. "I wouldn't buy it if it was $200." Not that buying them separately costs $200 anyhow, but we'll let your argument's need for exaggeration slide. First, you're repeating yourself and I've addressed the "double-standard" accusation above. And, uh, they do cost $200 after shipping. Do the math. Not that I would expect you to know, having never actually owned one. You already have what, two 1/48s? You're paying for a paint scheme or a head for crying out loud. Yes, because, as I said above, when I took the Roy out of its box, the rest of it magically disintegrated. . . leaving me with nothing more than a head and a few yellow stripes of paint. Which, by the way, are terribly difficult to keep from staining the furniture. Yeah, maybe you wouldn't buy Roy and then Roy with super parts, but for models you don't have would you consider the extra outlay? I really doubt you'd arbitrarily pass on something that's genuinely different rather than just a colour swap just simply because it'd cost 5000 yen more Yamato netting 1:1 super part sales for the majority of Valkyrie sales they made would hardly be bad business. Nope. Bandai spoiled me. I always want my valks to have removable FAST Packs. And, I think the vast majority of Macross fans feel the same way. Which is just another reason why Yamato was smart to do it the way they did and not ostracize their customers. The idea of permanently attached FAST Packs on an otherwise totally poseable and transformable toy is just ridiculous. And, again, Business 101. Supply and demand are affected by price. As price goes up, demand decreases. The trick is to find the "sweet spot." To force people to not only purchase the FAST Packs, but to have them permanently attached, that would lower demand for two reasons. (1) Price. (2) Stupid design. Which, of course, is why Yamato makes them removable and sells them seperately. And for the record I don't have a problem with capitalism and don't care what Yamato charges. I haven't bought a 1/48 yet and now the Ichijo VF-1S and super parts are available it's probably a good time to. I just find it rich that you all beat down someone who obviously does care and has a right to complain as a consumer, simply because he "doesn't have to buy it." Okay, first, for a guy who's never owned a 1/48, you've got a lot of opinions about the relative value of their various models and accessories. As for "beating down" a guy who is expressing his opinion. . . please see the other thread as well as this one. Skull-1 doesn't just express an opinion. He attacks Yamato, makes unfounded assertions, and in some instances him and some of those who agree with him go so far as to call those who like Yamato's products idiots or fools. Am I going to point out the flaws in their logic, one-sided views, and general self-victimization "whoah is me" syndrome. You betcha. Being thrifty and valuing a buck doesn't make someone a socialist or communist or dissatisfied with the system that brought them Macross toys. It's offensive. Well, sorry you're offended to have your own words scrutinized. But, if you don't want your views on product pricing and capitalism to be scrutinized, perhaps you had better not write about them. Get over yourself. You first. H Edited November 2, 2003 by Hurin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurin Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 Hikaru DYRL 1S is currently sold out at TRU-J (both the individual fighter and the "limited" bundled pack) All that horrible "languishing on the shelves." A real tragedy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treatment Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 (edited) fwiw, I just saw the Hikaru-1S and the Super-Pack set as available now from HLJ. http://www.hlj.com/cgi-perl/hljlist.cgi?Se...s=Macross&Dis=2 Does this mean Tamim (tmpanime) has my pre-orders ready-to-ship now, too? add: whoa! even the Super-1J is in-stock, too, from HLJ's list. Can anyone from Japan verify it? --treatment-- Edited November 2, 2003 by treatment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GobotFool Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 (edited) Glad to hear that they are not languishing. As some legit sources claimed this, and the claims are probably true. But as said earlier all you have to do is walk into a wal mart and you'll see plenty of TF'ers langushiing on the toyshelves As well as plenty Yu Gi Oh, Pokemon, and what ever is hot, as these places make an effort never to have empty shelves. But as for macross doing poorly, well heres the real clinchers that is undeniably true. They have as of this moment produced 3 normal macross plus valks, 2 macross plus valks with FPs, what is the count now 10 1/60th VF-1 varients, FP's that were soldout in many places before they hit the shelves as a result of massive preorder, 5 1/48 varients, with 1 more, the 1J, on the way, and probably M&Ms down the pike. Also with a habit of releasing one new product ever month or two. Yamato seems to be doing rather well IMHO. They are still making them, and stores are still carrying them (If people are not buying then why do the retailers keep buying, are all retailers macross fans who refuse to admit no one wants the toys and just keep buying them and letting them languish on the shelves out of sheer stuborness and neglect of any business sense? I find that unlikely.) I make no claim to fully understand the busness dynamics between manufacturer, retailer and customer, so make what you will of my observations. As I said earlier I do feel Yamato needs to expand its product line beyond the VF-1, and from what I have seen they are making the effort to. for next year we are getting non VF-1 mecha for macross. This month the escaflowne comes out. and further down we are going to get big O and Votoms, and that still mysterious transforming mecha series. (Come on Graham just a little hint?). Edited November 2, 2003 by GobotFool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kensei Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 I feel the same as you Gobotfool. If the 1/48 line wasn't so lucrative, I bet that they would not have continued up to the point they have now. If they do experience a little slump in their sales, you can be sure that it will go up agin later, its only Macross fans recharging their credit cards. Plus, other Macross products are enjoying popularity too, not just the transforming toy line. Remember those little CMS figures that sold out really fast in every toy store? Well they are re-releasing them again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EXO Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 (edited) What are you guys talking about? IIRC, The Hikaru 1A and the Roy 1S are being reissued because they are sold out. the Low-Viz is a limited version valk and is in great demand. The Fast Packs sold out and another run was made. That leaves the Max 1A. If anything I'd say it's the other scales that are suffering. I'm going to PM Monkey-N and see if he can correct me if I am wrong. This info I've gathered is from reading other threads on this board.... EDIT: OK.. I just reread the last two posts and you seem to be in agreement with me... I'll still double check with Rob... Edited November 2, 2003 by >EXO< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treatment Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 tsk tsk.The Macross toyline is only for those with completist syndrome. My opinion, spend the $120 so Yamato has more money to make new crap That's the whole damned problem. If Yamato would put out a TV Max and Milia "J" then I would spend money on those. THEN let Yamato rip the rest of you off with the "S" Hikaru (at least a customized Bandai has a different paint job for crying out loud). As it stands they'll waste money on this stupid ripoff and we'll never see the Valks that most of us really want: M&M, CF, Elint, etc. because they won't make money to spend on "new crap." I can understand your pov if you have bought all of the 1/48 models already and/or have bought extra 1/48 toys. It does seems like a rip-off at first take. But still... How is the Hikaru-1S a rip-off to some people who didn't buy the Roy-1S? or heck! To people who don't have any 1/48's at all, or at most, only have one 1/48 in their collection? fwiw, the Hikaru-1S will only be my second 1/48 toy, and most prolly will be the last. To each his own, I guess. --treatment-- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robokochan Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 As most of you know I live here in Japan. Today I went to Toy's R Us and I saw plenty of 1/60's and 1/48's on the Shelf. However I didn't notice any of the Armor sets, but then again I wasn't looking. So yes there are a lot of Macross toys by Yamato sitting on the shelves here. And not just at TRU. If you go into Osaka City they are in all of the shops. Personally the store I work with we decided to stop ordering VF's from Yamato. Nobody wants them. I have said this in other Threads similar to this subject. I have not sold one Macross releated toy to a Japanese person since I have been there. Now that is not saying that there aren't people who buy them here. If you really compare the amount of people here in Japan who are still interested in Macross, to the rest of the world where true Macross products are not allowed to be sold due to HG, Yamato is over producing the amounts of Macross Toys. And especially where Gundam is KING. Yamato produces these toys because they know they will sell them. They do not care about the quality control of the items (Macross Related) they produce, and yes they are milking it for all it's worth before moving on. If they sell a crap toy and then a few months down the road issue the improved version with corrections made. They will double their sales. If they truly could only sell in Japan and they issued a toy that was less than what it should be and people complained and actual sales dropped then they would be very careful with the next issue iof that toy, not a re-issue of the same but a different toy in the same series. Now issueing parts for broken toys. Yamato won't do it anymore. They cut me off completly and it was just after I posted it here. The guy told me: "If your customers need parts for thier broken toys, sell them another one and tell them to take the parts they need off of the new one." .This is beacuse they know they will keep selling large amounts of Macross Toys to the rest of the world through un-authorized sellers on eBay and such. Before when REDS was incharge of the distribution if we had a problem they would send us a replacement toy to make the customer happy, but not anymore. REDS is gone.... Are they going to keep releasing variants. Sure they are. Is Yamato in danger of going out of business? No way. Do I think they are almost finished with Macross...yep. Maybe a few more years and they will move on. Bt that is just my opinion. Yamato doesn't have to rely on the small ilsand of Japan for there Macross Sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gokurakumaru Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 I wonder how many people defending CEOs and the virtues of capitalism. . . This is a response to people saying "you live in a capitalist society and that's the reason you have Macross toys, so shut up and just don't buy it." I don't object to capitalism. I object to people telling other people they can't complain about what they consider to be unfair pricing just because they're talking about a business who's out to make money. No duh. And despite the fact that you're objecting to someone feeling the right to freely express their non-confirmist opinion on Yamato's marketing practices I still don't think you're pining for communist China or anything. This point wouldn't have taken so many posts for you to understand if you didn't chop off the operative part of the sentence which was would you complain or shut up if they screwed you on fast packs. Throwing in personal attacks like questioning my political ideals is an easy way to belittle your opponent, but when you have to purposely misconstrue a quote and then act like you just don't understand in order to do so, you end up looking stupid or immature. Whereas, the FAST Packs are always profit on top of a valk sale. Only if they sell 1:1 with Valkyries. You shouldn't balk at a $200 price tag if that's the case. The other actually encourages the purchase of more valks while adding revenue to the company through the sale of the FAST Packs themselves! What? Let's get this straight. Valkyries sell fast packs. No one's buying a fast pack and then deciding afterwards that it's not much fun without buying a plane to go under it. I don't even know what to say here. You think people wouldn't hate Yamato for permanently affixing the FAST Packs to 1/48s and selling them like that? So change it to them only selling new Valkyries with detatchable fast packs included in the box then. You've missed the point of my comparison which was not to decide what Yamato could and couldn't get away with forcing the customer to buy. That's your tack. My point was if Yamato did it and you did in fact hate Yamato for it then you should be able to say as much without people "informing" you that you don't have to buy it. CEOs and capitalism don't change the fact that it's your money and it's a public forum. Again, that's just not true. I'm not sure you're aware of this, but when I buy another valk, I can actually get to stand that valk next to the other ones. . . and then there are. . . wait for it. . . multiple valks. I can have Hikaru next to Roy! Or Hikaru next to Hikaru. You're so busy teaching me business101, elementary 1+1 valk = 2 valks mathematics, and generally being a smartass that you've missed the point again. First, you're repeating yourself and I've addressed the "double-standard" accusation above. And, uh, they do cost $200 after shipping. Do the math. Not that I would expect you to know, having never actually owned one. After mastering that 1+1 thing above you shouldn't need my help here. A funny thing about the process of going from not owning something to owning something. You have to look at the prices first. It's 14800 + 5800 before shipping for the two items packaged separately. It's only 19800 in the VF-1J with super parts pack they did. That's between $180 and $190 at the current US to yen exchange rate which is the poorest it's been in how many years now? So why is there no shipping charge in my calculations? Because you've brought it up in your whole "smart business, they don't do it because it won't sell" train of thought. Yamato's target market isn't foreigners with freefalling currency, and the Japanese consumers' standard of living doesn't change when the US dollar becomes worth so little that it takes more than $200 after shipping. You might as well start telling me that shipping to Europe costs extra or that you can only get it on Ebay and they'll charge you $250. Nope. Bandai spoiled me. I always want my valks to have removable FAST Packs. Bandai didn't spoil you in 1/48 detail. That's been the selling point of Yamato's new line since it debuted. Okay, first, for a guy who's never owned a 1/48, you've got a lot of opinions about the relative value of their various models and accessories. As a potential customer I'd be a fool not to have an opinion. I'd like to display a Hikaru VF-1A or a strike VF-1S as my mood sees fit but I'm not going to pay 30000 yen rather than 15000 for what is just a head. As for "beating down" a guy who is expressing his opinion. . . please see the other thread as well as this one. Skull-1 doesn't just express an opinion. He attacks Yamato, makes unfounded assertions, and in some instances him and some of those who agree with him go so far as to call those who like Yamato's products idiots or fools. This is not the other thread. And unless he's calling you an idiot or fool or somehow ruining the worth of your Yamato stocks I don't see how his disliking the company affects you one iota. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scand Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 I'd buy one if it was a 1/60 strike! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EXO Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 (edited) As most of you know I live here in Japan. Today I went to Toy's R Us and I saw plenty of 1/60's and 1/48's on the Shelf. However I didn't notice any of the Armor sets, but then again I wasn't looking. So yes there are a lot of Macross toys by Yamato sitting on the shelves here. And not just at TRU. If you go into Osaka City they are in all of the shops. Personally the store I work with we decided to stop ordering VF's from Yamato. Nobody wants them. I have said this in other Threads similar to this subject. I have not sold one Macross releated toy to a Japanese person since I have been there. Now that is not saying that there aren't people who buy them here. If you really compare the amount of people here in Japan who are still interested in Macross, to the rest of the world where true Macross products are not allowed to be sold due to HG, Yamato is over producing the amounts of Macross Toys. And especially where Gundam is KING. Yamato produces these toys because they know they will sell them. They do not care about the quality control of the items (Macross Related) they produce, and yes they are milking it for all it's worth before moving on. If they sell a crap toy and then a few months down the road issue the improved version with corrections made. They will double their sales. If they truly could only sell in Japan and they issued a toy that was less than what it should be and people complained and actual sales dropped then they would be very careful with the next issue iof that toy, not a re-issue of the same but a different toy in the same series. Now issueing parts for broken toys. Yamato won't do it anymore. They cut me off completly and it was just after I posted it here. The guy told me: "If your customers need parts for thier broken toys, sell them another one and tell them to take the parts they need off of the new one." .This is beacuse they know they will keep selling large amounts of Macross Toys to the rest of the world through un-authorized sellers on eBay and such.Before when REDS was incharge of the distribution if we had a problem they would send us a replacement toy to make the customer happy, but not anymore. REDS is gone.... Are they going to keep releasing variants. Sure they are. Is Yamato in danger of going out of business? No way. Do I think they are almost finished with Macross...yep. Maybe a few more years and they will move on. Bt that is just my opinion. Yamato doesn't have to rely on the small ilsand of Japan for there Macross Sales. Thanks Rob... A few more years? That's about all I could handle. as long as they come out with a Macross(SDF-1) Toy, I'm good. Then... just maybe then... I can buy little Timmy that medicine he's been needing... Edited November 2, 2003 by >EXO< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrClay Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 holy crap! "can't we all just get along?" quoth rodney king. just in case some yamato guy is still reading this post, thank you for the wonderful 1/48 toys. thank you for releasing a hikaru vf-1s. the vf-1 j looks sweet. don't listen to skull 1 or his communist friend... skulls a child and his friend feels a need to protect him from percieved insults. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurin Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 This point wouldn't have taken so many posts for you to understand if you didn't chop off the operative part of the sentence. . .purposely misconstrue a quote This point wouldn't have taken so many posts for you to understand if you didn't chop off the operative part of the sentence which was would you complain or shut up if they screwed you on fast packs. Uh, I was saving everyone even more reading. That's what the dots there mean. . . . "There was more. . ." In case you weren't aware, what you originally wrote was still there. Yes, it's all a vast conspiracy and cover-up. Sheesh. For the record, just because I don't quote something back to you, doesn't mean I didn't read it. Throwing in personal attacks like questioning my political ideals is an easy way to belittle your opponent, but when you have to purposely misconstrue a quote and then act like you just don't understand in order to do so, you end up looking stupid or immature. Since when is it a personal attack to analyze what you said about capitalizm and prices? Touchy? Only if they sell 1:1 with Valkyries. You shouldn't balk at a $200 price tag if that's the case. Every time a FAST pack is sold, it is profit on top of the revenue from the valkyrie. They don't need to sell 1 FAST Pack for every valkyrie to make a profit on how they decided to distribute valkyries. However, if they demanded all valkyries be bought with FAST Packs, that would put the price so high as to probably negatively affect demand. . . which is why they give us the option with the Hikaru 1J. What? Let's get this straight. Valkyries sell fast packs. No one's buying a fast pack and then deciding afterwards that it's not much fun without buying a plane to go under it. Who's willfully mis-interpreting things now!?! Read it again bud. I'm saying the exact opposite. If you don't see any surge in the interest in 1/48 valks since the FAST Packs were released, I can't help you. My point was if Yamato did it and you did in fact hate Yamato for it then you should be able to say as much without people "informing" you that you don't have to buy it. CEOs and capitalism don't change the fact that it's your money and it's a public forum. Yeah, but I sure wouldn't pull a "Skull-1" and come in here pissing an moaning. . . calling people fools, and basically playing the victim. I'd just say: "Hmmm, too rich for my blood. Those of you who can afford it are lucky. Yamato, I wish you'd find a way to lower the price." That is hardly what Skull-1 and his ilk do. . . Or Hikaru next to Hikaru. You're so busy teaching me business101, elementary 1+1 valk = 2 valks mathematics, and generally being a smartass that you've missed the point again. And that point is!?! BTW, if I didn't get to be a smart-ass and have fun with this. . . I wouldn't even bother with you. That's between $180 and $190 Oh my god! You got me by ten whole dollars by not counting shipping. Congratulations! You win! All my arguments have crumbled to dust. Why must life be so cruel!?! You may now do your happy dance. . . Bandai didn't spoil you in 1/48 detail. That's been the selling point of Yamato's new line since it debuted. Again, your point? I was pointing out that we're all used to having detachable FAST packs. How does the 1/48s having better detailing than the 1/55s make me suddenly feel that it's okay for them to permanently attach the FAST Packs. That makes no sense. For the life of me, I can't make any sense of this. . . As a potential customer I'd be a fool not to have an opinion. I'd like to display a Hikaru VF-1A or a strike VF-1S as my mood sees fit but I'm not going to pay 30000 yen rather than 15000 for what is just a head. Congratulations. You've learned to be frugal with your money. Now, don't come in here pulling a Skull-1, and we won't have to have any more conversations like this, will we? This is not the other thread. And unless he's calling you an idiot or fool or somehow ruining the worth of your Yamato stocks I don't see how his disliking the company affects you one iota. Oh. I wasn't aware that each thread must be self-contained in its own little universe. So, if I profess to be a Stalinist in another thread, should that not have any bearing on what I say here? When Skull-1's posts are filled with factual innaccuracies, bad logic, assumptions with no evidence, inflammatory language towards Yamato and fellow MWers, I will point it out. It is also perfectly reasonable to point out that these types of posts are part of a pattern. For some reason, you've chosen to hitch your wagon to this guy's star. Good luck with that. Well, other than a few nit-picks and some wilfull misunderstanding on your part, I think what I wrote stood up pretty well. Nothing you wrote in that last response makes Selling seperate FAST Packs seem in any way similar to selling valk heads seperately. Apples and oranges. . . So, with that, I'm gonna hope we can let this go. I type fast, but my hand is killing me from too much computer gaming tonight. H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gokurakumaru Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 The Hikaru next to Hikaru point is you could get both for a fraction of the price if they sold the heads separately. Sure you have a Roy and a Hikaru, but for someone like me who likes Hikaru and is indifferent to everyone else, for the sake of a head all I get on my shelf is two of the exact same toy. As far as what Skull-1 says in another thread, it is its own separate universe as far as this argument is concerned. I don't see any factual inaccuracies or inflammatory language here. He objects to their marketing and that's fair enough. I haven't hitched my wagon to anything except a point of view I agree with. And for the record for planes with fast packs already packaged in I got you by $20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumdumgai Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 Wow, people here are getting ANGRY!!!! Obviously neither Hurin nor Goku-whateverthehell are gonna be able to convince each other of the other's pov. Take a deep breath, exhale slowly, then go find someone to hit. You'll feel better. Anyone hoping for a Max VF-1S by the way? Maybe a Minmay Guard First Edition (the pink one is fugly)? Kakizaki? VT-01C? Stampede (oh god the weight and size of that monster!!! )? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kensei Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 As most of you know I live here in Japan. Today I went to Toy's R Us and I saw plenty of 1/60's and 1/48's on the Shelf. However I didn't notice any of the Armor sets, but then again I wasn't looking. So yes there are a lot of Macross toys by Yamato sitting on the shelves here. And not just at TRU. If you go into Osaka City they are in all of the shops. Personally the store I work with we decided to stop ordering VF's from Yamato. Nobody wants them. I have said this in other Threads similar to this subject. I have not sold one Macross releated toy to a Japanese person since I have been there. Now that is not saying that there aren't people who buy them here. If you really compare the amount of people here in Japan who are still interested in Macross, to the rest of the world where true Macross products are not allowed to be sold due to HG, Yamato is over producing the amounts of Macross Toys. And especially where Gundam is KING. Yamato produces these toys because they know they will sell them. They do not care about the quality control of the items (Macross Related) they produce, and yes they are milking it for all it's worth before moving on. If they sell a crap toy and then a few months down the road issue the improved version with corrections made. They will double their sales. If they truly could only sell in Japan and they issued a toy that was less than what it should be and people complained and actual sales dropped then they would be very careful with the next issue iof that toy, not a re-issue of the same but a different toy in the same series. Now issueing parts for broken toys. Yamato won't do it anymore. They cut me off completly and it was just after I posted it here. The guy told me: "If your customers need parts for thier broken toys, sell them another one and tell them to take the parts they need off of the new one." .This is beacuse they know they will keep selling large amounts of Macross Toys to the rest of the world through un-authorized sellers on eBay and such.Before when REDS was incharge of the distribution if we had a problem they would send us a replacement toy to make the customer happy, but not anymore. REDS is gone.... Are they going to keep releasing variants. Sure they are. Is Yamato in danger of going out of business? No way. Do I think they are almost finished with Macross...yep. Maybe a few more years and they will move on. Bt that is just my opinion. Yamato doesn't have to rely on the small ilsand of Japan for there Macross Sales. Sounds good for the future then. I do hope though, that they get to do the whole Macross line, not just the DYRL?, TV and Macross Zero and Plus, but all the way to Macross 7 and II for those that love it. In your opinion Rob, does Yamato do at least modestly well internationally than locally? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kensei Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 Wow, people here are getting ANGRY!!!! Obviously neither Hurin nor Goku-whateverthehell are gonna be able to convince each other of the other's pov. Take a deep breath, exhale slowly, then go find someone to hit. You'll feel better. Anyone hoping for a Max VF-1S by the way? Maybe a Minmay Guard First Edition (the pink one is fugly)? Kakizaki? VT-01C? Stampede (oh god the weight and size of that monster!!! )? Wouldn't hold my breath for the stampede mate. Yamato will hopefully do all the variants of the VF-1 line, and hopefully they will make all the two seater valks. Something like the stampede is just not worth doing. As a novelty item however, I think that Yamato is that game enough to make something like a Minmay Guard of an Angelbirds valk, but ONLY one and not both, or any other scheme that comes to our mind (Blue Roses, ThnderHammers etc). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GobotFool Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 Before when REDS was incharge of the distribution if we had a problem they would send us a replacement toy to make the customer happy, but not anymore. REDS is gone.... RED's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSJ23 Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 How is the Hikaru-1S a rip-off to some people who didn't buy the Roy-1S? or heck! To people who don't have any 1/48's at all, or at most, only have one 1/48 in their collection? fwiw, the Hikaru-1S will only be my second 1/48 toy, and most prolly will be the last. To each his own, I guess. --treatment-- Exactly! I didn't buy any 1/48 before the low Vis. Now that I've got my low vis and fast packs, after I get the Hikaru VF-1S I'm probably done with the 1/48 line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Payne Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 Are all those companys' toys that I see on the shelves of KB and TRU failing!?! My god! Poor Hasbro! On the other hand, although I think that the reports of Yamato's imminent demise are greatly exaggerated (that's, of course, without seeing any of the financial documents that are probably company secrets), comparing a Hasbro or a Bandai with Yamato is like comparing apples and oranges. Yamato is a small and very young company (getting bigger) which chaters to a narrow market: Adult Anime fans who are looking for toys to both display and play with. Hasbro is a more general toy company that started in the '50s IIRC that is well diversified in the toy (and with the purchase of Wizards of the Coast/TSR,) and game markets. When Hasbro toys languish on the shelves (and I'm surprised, this time around, even Han Solo is remaindered at Kay-Bee) there's always something else to take its place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Payne Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 Before when REDS was incharge of the distribution if we had a problem they would send us a replacement toy to make the customer happy, but not anymore. REDS is gone.... RED's? IIRC, REDS was the company that handled the distribution for Yamato's toys both in Japan and abroad (with the exception of foreign distro of the Macross line, of course). They went under earlier this year, and Yamato's been scrambling to find another distributor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skull-1 Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 (edited) Just when you thought Yamato had hit rock bottom they one up you.... Now we have to deal with bad QC and Yamato's solution to a defective or broken part: "Tell them to buy another Valkyrie and swap the part off of that one." BRILLIANT! I'm just glad I was able to get a pair of extra canopies from HLJ to replace the defective POS they sent me before Yamato decided to play Gestapo games.... (Upon careful inspection I discovered why the canopy broke off at the hinge: the glue they use to attach the hinge cover wasn't confined to the hinge cover, but managed to run down into the hinge itself. There was no way in hell to get that canopy open without breaking it. Nice job, Yamato.) Oh, and for those who said I insulted fellow MWorlders.... PROVE IT. I have insulted no one here. I was on the verge of it, I admit, but I did not. My assertions about the popularity of Macross Toys in Japan have been supported time and time again. Yamato thinks its "Japanese Customers" want this and that. The reality is, those people don't give a crap about Macross toys. It's old news there. As for affordability, I have plenty of money in my Macross Toy Fund. It is not a question of "Can I buy this thing?" it is a question of "Should I reinforce Yamato's bad business practices?". My answer is HELL NO. I give them kudos on the Low Viz.... Jeers for the rest. Edited November 2, 2003 by Skull-1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treatment Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 Yeah. That is quite arrogant of Yamato or whoever Rob spoke with. I don't appreciate it being told like that to buy another valk if I want replacement-parts. That's just bad customer-service. But this is the main problem with importing stuff. It just sux to have to be aware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VF-1Guy Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 Are they going to keep releasing variants. Sure they are. Is Yamato in danger of going out of business? No way. Do I think they are almost finished with Macross...yep. Maybe a few more years and they will move on. Bt that is just my opinion. Yamato doesn't have to rely on the small ilsand of Japan for there Macross Sales. Sounds to me like Yamato is going to ride the Macross train to the end of the line. I don't see Macross being all that popular 2 years from now. It has seen a very nice resurgance, along with a number of other 80's properties, but I don't think that there is a strong enough core fan base to keep it going at this level forever. Many of the people who jumped on the Macross band wagon have gotten their fill and have moved on to other things. I'm grateful for everything that Yamato has produced. They have given me a great Macross collection that I will be able to admire in the Macross-lean years to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vf-24 Posted November 3, 2003 Share Posted November 3, 2003 here's my 2 cents, take it or leave it. yamato is a business in creating adult collectibles. they produce nice work, the mechanics or the materials used for the products may need some tweaking. their custormer service and quality control, probably needs a lot of tweaking. they, like any other business out there are out to make a buck. do they care about their customers? do they listen to consumer complaints, suggestions, etc? no one knows except those who know yamato. but companies that do listen to their consumers and try to satisfy them, are good companies. and those that don't listen are bad companies. ironically though in the world of business, sometimes the bad companies make the most money but that's an entirely different issue for elsewhere. the bottom line, in my opinion, is are you satisfied with your purchase? no? then don't buy from them anymore. yes? then continue to buy from them if you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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