Anubis Posted December 16, 2004 Author Share Posted December 16, 2004 (edited) Kira or Mwu if it ever came down to them getting serious with each other. If it was a level playing field and Kira couldn't go SEED on poor Mwu's ass, then I'd say Mwu would win thanks to his experience. The real fun question is.. if Mwu had the Gunbarrel strike-pack, would he be able to take down the Freedom? Or the providence. Funnels can make all the difference. If Mwu could have went barrel to funnel with Providence he could have done much better. It was the Strike being surrounded by funnels that made Mwu lose that round. Kira held up against all of Providence's funnels, so the 4 gunbarrels the Gunbarrel Strike would have had still wouldn't have been as big a deal in a Kira/Mwu face-off. Against the number of funnels the providence had, even the new Gundams would have serious trouble. Edited December 16, 2004 by Anubis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druna Skass Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 I'd say if the field was totaly level. In that both pilots used the suits that maxed out their potentials (Kira with Freedom and Mwu with a suit equal to Providence) I would call it a draw. Kira's SEED mode and Mwu expirience and Newtype abilites would cancel each other out. Yes in the end Kira did beat Raww, but Mwu has had more expirience with a gunbarrel type weapon system. Mwu used the Zero for a good part of the war, while Raww only got it at the end. As for the Strike begin out dated, upgrading the internal systems can go a long way, just look at the F-4. When you think about it the only real edge Freedom and Justice hold over the Strike is the nuclear engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anubis Posted December 17, 2004 Author Share Posted December 17, 2004 A performance tuning of the Strike Rouge could let it match the Impulse easy, especially having the IWSP pack with it's nice array of weapons. Stuff like upgraded engines, more/better thrusters, and probably further improvements to the OS. The EA had to upgrade their OS to build these Windam suits, Orb had to have worked on theirs as well. Wonder how much practice time Cagalli's put in the last two years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkPhoenix Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 As for the Strike begin out dated, upgrading the internal systems can go a long way, just look at the F-4. When you think about it the only real edge Freedom and Justice hold over the Strike is the nuclear engine. Yeah, like I said.. upgrade internals and avionics and leave the frame itself relatively intact. The IWSP handles most of its upgraded weaponry, with perhaps a new beam rifle (are there any stats on just how powerful the beam rifles are for SEED suits? They progressively rose in strength in the UC timeline..) and shield using a newer generation of beam absorbtion/deflection coating, or that Mirage Colloid tech like Force Impulse and Forbidden.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azrael Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 Kira held up against all of Providence's funnels Barely. One thing I will note is that Freedom is probably more manueverable than Strike (with the Aile pack) so that probably contributed to Freedom's survival.* A performance tuning of the Strike Rouge could let it match the Impulse easy, especially having the IWSP pack with it's nice array of weapons. Consider this, the ZAKUs are comparable to Strike in it's day. If we updated Strike Rouge, then it's as good as Impulse (if we consider that Impulse is just Strike Mk. II). At that point, it's up to the pilot's skill. Wonder how much practice time Cagalli's put in the last two years. Probably not much. shield using a newer generation of beam absorbtion/deflection coating, or that Mirage Colloid tech like Force Impulse and Forbidden.. As beam weapons increase in strength, so would the corresponding armor, so the game is leveled. As for the shielding system on Impulse and Forbidden, I don't think we can count of prototypes since mass production doesn't use it...yet. *Reference to http://www.gundamofficial.com/worlds/ce/ba...logy.html#himat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 Wonder how much practice time Cagalli's put in the last two years. Probably not much. Yeah, shes probably been kept busy doing, ahem....'docking maneuvers' with Athrun for the last 2 years Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfx Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 Wonder how much practice time Cagalli's put in the last two years. Probably not much. Yeah, shes probably been kept busy doing, ahem....'docking maneuvers' with Athrun for the last 2 years Graham i really doubt that..... More like having a country to run and stuff. What scandal will come of it if the Princess' bodyguard was found "docking" with her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anubis Posted December 17, 2004 Author Share Posted December 17, 2004 Who thinks there'll be a MS or MA with an I-field later on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfx Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 Who thinks there'll be a MS or MA with an I-field later on? Throw in INCOMS usable by your everyday Natural while you're at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anubis Posted December 17, 2004 Author Share Posted December 17, 2004 Who thinks there'll be a MS or MA with an I-field later on? Throw in INCOMS usable by your everyday Natural while you're at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druna Skass Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 Wonder how much practice time Cagalli's put in the last two years. Probably not much. Yeah, shes probably been kept busy doing, ahem....'docking maneuvers' with Athrun for the last 2 years Graham Yeah, Kira and Athrun are off drinking somewhere... Athrun: Hey Kira you wouldn't belive what your sister did last night she ................ *hic* Kira: Damnit why did you have to tell me that, now every time I look at her I'm going to think that! Damn my sister's a fr-EAK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seven Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 Who thinks there'll be a MS or MA with an I-field later on? Throw in INCOMS usable by your everyday Natural while you're at it. Actually, the Moebius Zero used wire-guided gunbarrels, so that's basically your incom right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfx Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 Who thinks there'll be a MS or MA with an I-field later on? Throw in INCOMS usable by your everyday Natural while you're at it. Actually, the Moebius Zero used wire-guided gunbarrels, so that's basically your incom right there. But only the Newtype pilots could use those. Incoms can be used by normal people and are mostly computer controlled. And Incoms use reflector bits, and aren't really fired from the bits. In the EX-S , the head fires a laser which is reflected by the Incom reflectors on the knees, which use I-Fields to reflect the laser to its target. Sounds complicated to me. Calculating the angle of reflectrion itself is killer i reckon. And I read that incoms only move 2 dimensionally as compared to 3 dimensional movements by bits and funnels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkPhoenix Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 But only the Newtype pilots could use those. From what I understood, you only needed 'great spatial awareness' to use the Mobius Zero's weaponry.. which doesn't require you to be a newtype, but it certainly helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anubis Posted December 17, 2004 Author Share Posted December 17, 2004 But only the Newtype pilots could use those. From what I understood, you only needed 'great spatial awareness' to use the Mobius Zero's weaponry.. which doesn't require you to be a newtype, but it certainly helps. That would be why Mwu was the only survivor of the Moebuis Zero squad. The fact that he's a newtype let him use the gunbarrels far more effectively than the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfx Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 But only the Newtype pilots could use those. From what I understood, you only needed 'great spatial awareness' to use the Mobius Zero's weaponry.. which doesn't require you to be a newtype, but it certainly helps. That would be why Mwu was the only survivor of the Moebuis Zero squad. The fact that he's a newtype let him use the gunbarrels far more effectively than the others. Who is the pilot of the Dagger with Gunbarrels? Is he your average grunt or someone like Mwu with "great spatial awareness" ? Well anyway I was just stating that INCOMS were more "user-friendly" compared to the funnels. So maybe Seed would have something similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druna Skass Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 That would be why Mwu was the only survivor of the Moebuis Zero squad. The fact that he's a newtype let him use the gunbarrels far more effectively than the others. I think he just got lucky when the Alliance set off the Cyclopse array that was installed at their Endymion Base. That the Mobius Zero squad wasn't wiped out by ZAFT but by friendly fire. Well that's the impression I get from the official site. Skirmishing continued along the Grimaldi Front for roughly a month, culminating in a fierce battle at the Endymion Crater, the site of a major Alliance resource base. The Alliance forces ultimately used a Cyclops System to destroy their own base, wiping out friend and foe alike. The Alliance's 3rd Fleet was destroyed in this battle, along with its elite mobile armor corps, while the ZAFT forces sustained losses so severe that they were forced to abandon the Grimaldi Front and withdraw from the moon. It would be nice to know if Morgan Chevalier (the guy with the Gunbarrel Dagger) is a Newtype or not. Especialy since he looks significantly older than Mwu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druna Skass Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 On another note, if a Newtype is indeed the next step in evolution as opposed to some strange anomaly, then how is Mwu related to the whole SEED factor thing? A factor that determines the course of a species' evolution. The existence of the SEED factor has yet to be proven, and it remains a subject of intense controversy in scientific circles. But in theory, those who possess the SEED factor have the ability to advance to the next stage of human evolution - an ability unrelated to whether the carrier is a Natural or a Coordinator. Does this mean that Mwu has this factor as well but has past the phase Kira, Athrun, Lacus and Cagali are at? Or he's at the same phase but has never reached the point to trigger his SEED mode? Or maybe there are two evolutionary paths, the SEED and Newtype paths? Either way, someone's got some 'splaining ta do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anubis Posted December 17, 2004 Author Share Posted December 17, 2004 On another note, if a Newtype is indeed the next step in evolution as opposed to some strange anomaly, then how is Mwu related to the whole SEED factor thing? A factor that determines the course of a species' evolution. The existence of the SEED factor has yet to be proven, and it remains a subject of intense controversy in scientific circles. But in theory, those who possess the SEED factor have the ability to advance to the next stage of human evolution - an ability unrelated to whether the carrier is a Natural or a Coordinator. Does this mean that Mwu has this factor as well but has past the phase Kira, Athrun, Lacus and Cagali are at? Or he's at the same phase but has never reached the point to trigger his SEED mode? Or maybe there are two evolutionary paths, the SEED and Newtype paths? Either way, someone's got some 'splaining ta do... I would say he's already past that point because Mwu was already a newtype. Perhaps back in the day he had a Seed mode, but he was long past that already. This SEED factor seems to me like it means "having the traits to become a newtype" and/or are in the early stages of becoming one. Kira is by far the closest to becoming another Newtype from the batch that has alreadybeen shwon with a Seed more. Now Rey shouldn't have a Seed mode for these reasons, with him already a Newtype as well. If he does have a Seed mode, then it should be becuase Rey will be at the end of the process, as he's exibiting all the traits already. The SEED factor is a theory, and one that is being researched for sure. I've said this before, but I think this is one of the things the chief Blue Cosmos guys realize, that people are taking steps toward their natural evolutions already, but the whole coordinator business takes any attention away from that with guys like Patrick Zala claiming they're the next evolutionary step. Thus having coordinators around may muck up or taint the process in their eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Effect Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 That's an interesting idea. I always thought it was interesting that Patrick Zala was trying to say coordinators were the next stage in human evolution. Then the one guys says that "we coordinators didn't evolve in the first place" or something like that. It could be possible that BC know very well about Newtypes or the chances of becoming one and see the coordinators as a problem in the way of this of what they call a natural evolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anubis Posted December 17, 2004 Author Share Posted December 17, 2004 That's an interesting idea. I always thought it was interesting that Patrick Zala was trying to say coordinators were the next stage in human evolution. Then the one guys says that "we coordinators didn't evolve in the first place" or something like that. It could be possible that BC know very well about Newtypes or the chances of becoming one and see the coordinators as a problem in the way of this of what they call a natural evolution. That was the conversation Zala had with Sigel Clyne, I think the the room with the Evidence-01 fossil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azrael Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 That's an interesting idea. I always thought it was interesting that Patrick Zala was trying to say coordinators were the next stage in human evolution. Then the one guys says that "we coordinators didn't evolve in the first place" or something like that. It could be possible that BC know very well about Newtypes or the chances of becoming one and see the coordinators as a problem in the way of this of what they call a natural evolution. This kinda goes back to George Glenn. Glenn thought that him becoming a Coordinator would give humanity that one push to becoming Newtypes. He thought that forcing his hand into evolution would push up evolution's timetable. Didn't work that way. More and more people became Coordinators. You have more and more people who are "unnaturally" evolved. This leads to a problem. This is probably why there are so few known Newtypes (namely the Flaga family). The people with SEED mode have the potential but they have yet to show that potential. Of course, you can't tell since that potential is overshadowed by the fact that a majority of them are Coordinators. It's a conflict of natural evolution vs. artificial evolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F360° Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 (edited) here.. I just saw a pic of neo unmasked,, looks kinda fake pic here Edited December 18, 2004 by F360° Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkPhoenix Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 here.. I just saw a pic of neo unmasked,, looks kinda fake pic here Holy crap, he looks like Mwu... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anubis Posted December 18, 2004 Author Share Posted December 18, 2004 here.. I just saw a pic of neo unmasked,, looks kinda fake pic here Holy crap, he looks like Mwu... If that's legit then that nails that one. Clone Mwu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkPhoenix Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 here.. I just saw a pic of neo unmasked,, looks kinda fake pic here Holy crap, he looks like Mwu... If that's legit then that nails that one. Clone Mwu. Maybe not on the clone part.. In the compilation movie of SEED's end, they removed the helmet floating through space after Mwu takes the Dominion's shot to save the Archangel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anubis Posted December 18, 2004 Author Share Posted December 18, 2004 here.. I just saw a pic of neo unmasked,, looks kinda fake pic here Holy crap, he looks like Mwu... If that's legit then that nails that one. Clone Mwu. Maybe not on the clone part.. In the compilation movie of SEED's end, they removed the helmet floating through space after Mwu takes the Dominion's shot to save the Archangel. Either way it should be very interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azrael Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 Looks photoshopped..... Episode 11 preview is out and screenshots are avaliable. Looks like EA is gonna make a visit to ORB...invited or not. Either that or their going to Carpentaria. Looks like Cagalli is not in a good mood. Looks like she's gonna have to decide ORB's stance in this matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phuqueue Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 here.. I just saw a pic of neo unmasked,, looks kinda fake pic here Holy crap, he looks like Mwu... That's because Hisashi Hirai does the character designs for SEED... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anubis Posted December 18, 2004 Author Share Posted December 18, 2004 here.. I just saw a pic of neo unmasked,, looks kinda fake pic here Holy crap, he looks like Mwu... That's because Hisashi Hirai does the character designs for SEED... We debated that already way back in the thread. For anything concrete we have to wait a while. For now there's a few possibilities to work with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bariaburu Faita Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 Cool ep. Very nice how it meshed with the first series. I originaly expected it to be a rehash of seed but its actualy an extension. We also find out what fake Lacus actualy is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 there is something about the show airing an half hour earily next week, with two eps, for the holiday. right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azrael Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 there is something about the show airing an half hour earily next week, with two eps, for the holiday. right? Yes. Episode 11 and 12 will air next week starting at 5:30PM on Christmas day. However, there will be no episode on New Year's day (this was planned in advance so it's normal programming). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F360° Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 just saw the RAw, and boy do they talk alot in this one.,, this ep clears some of the questions regarding fake Lacus. For a better understanding you should wait for the fansub, but if you can't wait,,here's a link to the raw. You can check out the raw here http://www.saiyaman.info/bt/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfx Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 w00ts! Excellent! As expected from last episode's preview, Lacus...or should I say, Mia, becomes Zaft's Min May to calm their hearts. For now, Dullindal seems to keep having the upper hand and always 2 steps ahead of the EA. One wonders if he's just being nice only to turn his back at the end and eradicate Earth once he gets the chance. If so, one also wonders at the possiblity that Neo is actually not affliated with the Blue Cosmos but he knows Dullindal's true plan (which included the use of Abyss, Chaos, Gaia and Saviour)...and the tables will turn again from good guy to bad guy and vice versa. Ahtrun gets "entrusted" with the Saviour. Kira and Lacus looks at the sky and worries about what the future holds for them. Cagali is frustrated....no decision from her yet... But from next episode's preview, it seems like Orb will again be attacked by the EA.....peh.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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