Macross isnt what it used to be..

[sketchley]

With fanservice, "doing it stupidly" usually involves bringing the actual story to a screeching halt to show the goods, with the panty-chase being a perfect example.

That, and it is a personal preference--blatant fanservice detracts from the story in the sense that it reminds you the series is being made to pander, rather than just to tell a story. Most people want a pretense of objective storytelling with their shows, and to get absorbed in the story being presented. For some fanservice is just a "bonus" but for others it's a derail, even a temporary one. Badly-written action scenes can have the same effect, too.

+1.

[Renato]

Oh no! Not...women!

Yeah, I'm a chica and fanservice isn't my thing, but it's not about hating sex. Like anything, doing it stupidly is the problem, same as with violent content, so a discussion of the sex vs. violence double standard really isn't relevant.

With fanservice, "doing it stupidly" usually involves bringing the actual story to a screeching halt to show the goods, with the panty-chase being a perfect example.

That, and it is a personal preference--blatant fanservice detracts from the story in the sense that it reminds you the series is being made to pander, rather than just to tell a story. Most people want a pretense of objective storytelling with their shows, and to get absorbed in the story being presented. For some fanservice is just a "bonus" but for others it's a derail, even a temporary one. Badly-written action scenes can have the same effect, too.

Thank you. You articulated the entire argument perfectly. I agree 100%.

Ok Keith, I don't care about how much you fap but I believe moderation must exist so excess can truly be enjoyed.

Otherwise everything just turns into deviantart :v

Heh, that reminds me of this:

[Vepariga]

Uh huh, BS. If something is good, it shouldn't matter how much gratutitous nudity is present. Clothes, no clothes, bouncing tits, etc. Perception is just that, perception. If you have a problem with naked chicks, change your perception so that you don't. Implying that their presence somehow cheapens something is a reflection on how you view nudity, not on nudity itself.

Or to put it more simply, if you're tired of having a "DECULCHA!!" reaction, then do what Kamjin did and desensitize yourself to it.

You shouldnt have to change your perception to enjoy a series you love,if you have to change your perception to ignore the increasing fanservice that just shows how blantant it has become.

[Jasonc]

Just stopped in to see if the argument stopped going around in circles. Apparently, it hasn't. OK, aimlessly carry on.

[Keith]

You shouldnt have to change your perception to enjoy a series you love,if you have to change your perception to ignore the increasing fanservice that just shows how blantant it has become.

That's the thing, you're apparently not enjoying it, wanting to change it to reflect something it's not, i.e. something prudish that doesn't have fanservice.

Ok Keith, I don't care about how much you fap but I believe moderation must exist so excess can truly be enjoyed.

Otherwise everything just turns into deviantart :v

Something is only deviant until it becomes the norm. Mark my words, fanservice shall become so prevelent that things tht lack it shall become the new deviance!!

Oh no! Not...women!

Yeah, I'm a chica and fanservice isn't my thing, but it's not about hating sex. Like anything, doing it stupidly is the problem, same as with violent content, so a discussion of the sex vs. violence double standard really isn't relevant.

Note that "sex" and "intercourse" aren't the same thing. I used the word "sex" in the sense of "sex appeal" and or "sexual content," etc.

With fanservice, "doing it stupidly" usually involves bringing the actual story to a screeching halt to show the goods, with the panty-chase being a perfect example.

Unless of course the panty chase "is" the action. Your implication that such a thing is stupid in the first place is highly judgemental. You seem to be of a mindset that automatically dismisses anything sexual in nature (at least in this context where entertainment is concerned), so you'll forgive me for not subscribing to your personal opinion. Seems that I'm more of the like mind of the series creatoers and their intended audience. Point being, if a story is intended to include a balance of serious & fun elements, who's to say the occasional panty chase is out of context. I don't see you here saying things like Hikaru's escapades at a langerie shop, damn near anything Loli Wareru & Konda did, Roy checking out Minmay's ass, Hikaru getting caught trying to peep on Minmay's shower, Kim Shammy & Vanessa threatening to pants their crewmember, etc dragged Macross to a screeching halt.

That, and it is a personal preference--blatant fanservice detracts from the story in the sense that it reminds you the series is being made to pander,

Blatant fanservice is an interesting term, as you're depicting it as a negative. By definition it's a service done "for the fans." So blatantly catoring to the fanbase implies that they're giving people "what they want." This very same crowd also wants transforming robots/airplanes, popular music, a love triangle, action etc. All that can be considered "blatantly pandering" as none of these things are a requirement to tell a story. Animation, a preferred character design style (in this case anime) etc are also "pandering" to a specific crowd. If you want to experience a version of Macross relatively free of "pandering" might I suggest just reading a text translation of a script or something. Though even that would probably contain elements that could be consider "pandering."

rather than just to tell a story. Most people want a pretense of objective storytelling with their shows, and to get absorbed in the story being presented. For some fanservice is just a "bonus" but for others it's a derail, even a temporary one. Badly-written action scenes can have the same effect, too.

You're painting a personal view as a blind fact, i.e. that fanservice is an unnecessary element. You're basing that view on your own dislike of fanservice for whatever personal reason you choose. I don't see you here complaining about depictions of violence (the murder of President Glass and his entourage for example) as pandering & unnecessary elements. I don't see you here complaining about the existence of fantastical transforming airplane robots that are (by current scientific means) completely unfeasable. You're choosing to narrow your focus on a very specific, and dare I say the most natural aspect (i.e. depictions of sexuality) as an unnecessary one. I suggest you take a look at yourself and why you feel that way about a normal human drive/interest, as opposed to one's that actually are unhealthy (the aforementioned violence) before condemning fanservice as a negative.

At the end of the day, maybe anime just isn't for you, sorry. Fanservice is something that has always been, and always will be. One man's lewd is another man's art, the only thing seperating the two are perception & context.

[sketchley]

You're painting a personal view as a blind fact, i.e. that fanservice is an unnecessary element.

Wow. Did you actually read her post or the 2+ people that are in agreement with it?

Lessee, from her post I got: dislike of fanservice done stupidly and/or blatantly. No where did I get the impression that all fanservice must be removed and/or that it is an unnecessary element.

[s001]

Someone needs a class of comprehensive reading... No offense dude but you just don't get what the other guys are saying.

[Freiflug88]

As for nudity in anime, I do have to wonder if:

1: There aren't a bunch of prudes & women hiding in these forums.

2: Why anyone can find depictions of war/killing ok, but sex not ok.

Didn't the Zendrati-Meltrandi conflict teach you anything? Its always the most sexually repressed and divided cultures that turn in the most violent ones.

Granted modern society has not started segregating genders into separate species...yet. But unfortunately modern society does have an obsession with butchering the majority of genitals in the name of hygienic BS. Which naturally has created a lot of of violent sexually frustrated males and females...

Edited April 21, 2012 by Freiflug88

[Keith]

Wow. Did you actually read her post or the 2+ people that are in agreement with it?

Lessee, from her post I got: dislike of fanservice done stupidly and/or blatantly. No where did I get the impression that all fanservice must be removed and/or that it is an unnecessary element.

Yup, read and replied to all the aforementioned posts. And stupid/unnecessary are very subjective concepts that should be policed by who? One man'sstupid and unnecessary is another man's view of perfectly fine.

Someone needs a class of comprehensive reading... No offense dude but you just don't get what the other guys are saying.

Yes, "someone" does. Never thought I'd have to defend the virtues of fanservice on an anime based fan forum. I expect this kind of ignorence from the robotech lackyfans, not people here. Next time you reply try having something more relevent to the topic, and less personal attack.

Didn't the Zendrati-Meltrandi conflict teach you anything? Its always the most sexually repressed and divided cultures that turn in the most violent ones.

Granted modern society has not started segregating genders into separate species...yet. But unfortunately modern society does have an obsession with butchering the majority of genitals in the name of hygienic BS. Which naturally has created a lot of of violent sexually frustrated males and females...

Exactly

[Old_Nash]

In the original Macross, had a shower scene improvised.

With the "aerodynamic"Linn Minmay^^

As for the "aggressive fan-service" Frontier (Sheryl further explaining that her breasts are what fans love most), is something we can to agree.

In the comparison between Roy and Michael.

Michael had a certain complex by your sister.

S oit became a womanizer.Trying toward off what he felt for her (to be sentimental, or physical).

Since Roy, he tried toward off the specter of Aries, which haunted him, until he met Claudia.

[Keith]

In the original Macross, had a shower scene improvised.

With the "aerodynamic"Linn Minmay^^

As for the "aggressive fan-service" Frontier (Sheryl further explaining that her breasts are what fans love most), is something we can to agree.

In the comparison between Roy and Michael.

Michael had a certain complex by your sister.

S oit became a womanizer.Trying toward off what he felt for her (to be sentimental, or physical).

Since Roy, he tried toward off the specter of Aries, which haunted him, until he metClaudia.

As usual, I have almost no idea what you're saying, however I will point out that Roy was a womanizer & met Claudia years before Aries died.

[Gubaba]

As usual, I have almost no idea what you're saying, however I will point out that Roy was a womanizer & met Claudia years before Aries died.

You've got a point here, Keith, but still...Pterobat knows whereof she speaks.

Just because one dislikes poorly-placed fanservice does NOT mean that anime is not for that person.

[nanoplasm]

I don't dislike fan service, but it can be done in a more tasteful manner.

For example, Gunbuster (1, not 2) was fan service galore, but it was enjoyable and made the characters more endearing.

Everything was presented in a plausible fashion, that doesn't detract the audience from the flow of the story.

[VF5SS]

Yeah no. Try showing Gunbuster to people who aren't anime fans and you'll get lots of "LOOKIT DEM TITTIES" remarks...

Votoms is even worse cuz it's like every episode during the Uoodo arc you get the flashback to Chirico meeting Fynana and her breasts :v

[Renato]

Yeah no. Try showing Gunbuster to people who aren't anime fans and you'll get lots of "LOOKIT DEM TITTIES" remarks...

Votoms is even worse cuz it's like every episode during the Uoodo arc you get the flashback to Chirico meeting Fynana and her breasts :v

I don't know... I think that Gunbuster totally reads like fan service to the average viewer, but Fyana being naked in Votoms does not.

[Solidus Snake]

Meh, I'm not bothered by the change. It's going to happen. Macross can't be stuck in the 80s and each Macross entry offers something new and something different and isn't just a rehash of the same ideas like a certain other franchise that I enjoy as much as I do Macross.

[nanoplasm]

Yeah no. Try showing Gunbuster to people who aren't anime fans and you'll get lots of "LOOKIT DEM TITTIES" remarks...

Votoms is even worse cuz it's like every episode during the Uoodo arc you get the flashback to Chirico meeting Fynana and her breasts :v

I don't know... I think that Gunbuster totally reads like fan service to the average viewer, but Fyana being naked in Votoms does not.

Back in the high school (VHS) days, I had the opportunity to show Gunbuster to non-anime fans (males and females) on several occasions.

Sure there was the initial giggles and snickers, but no one made a big fuss about the fan service.

The story was the main draw, as everyone who saw the first 30 minutes of the series insisted on watching the whole thing until the end.

[Freiflug88]

My two cents:

1. I think alot of us fans just really love Haruhiko Mikmoto's artwork over Risa Ebata's. Hence we tend to defend fanservice with the classic Mikimoto charaters in Macross and Gunbuster as "more tastiful" then Frontier's as just another sign of our favoritism IMHO. Not that their is anything wrong with that.

2. Though it would be very in charater. Showing Sheryl Nome strutting around topless in almost every other appearance like Jung would probably scare away alot of the mainstream female fans the new franchise was aiming to acquire.

[Bri]

1. I think alot of us fans just really love Haruhiko Mikmoto's artwork over Risa Ebata's. Hence we tend to defend fanservice with the classic Mikimoto charaters in Macross and Gunbuster as "more tastiful" then Frontier's as just another sign of our favoritism IMHO. Not that their is anything wrong with that.

Dunno, Mikimoto added some new fanservice scenes to Macross the First and those were pretty impressive, the new Minmay is hot. Also, if we only had a preference for classic chracters designs, that would assume the quality of fanservice completely depends on artwork and not writing. Are lame pantsu-jokes for example on the same level as scenes with functional nudity?

Edited April 24, 2012 by Bri

[VF5SS]

It was all over for robot anime when the first breast missile was fired in anger.

[Keith]

It was all over for robot anime when the first breast missile was fired in anger.

Over? It just began!

[Freiflug88]

Dunno, Mikimoto added some new fanservice scenes to Macross the First and those were pretty impressive, the new Minmay is hot. Also, if we only had a preference for classic chracters designs, that would assume the quality of fanservice completely depends on artwork and not writing.

I said "I think alot of us fans just really love Haruhiko Mikmoto's artwork over Risa Ebata's.Hence we tend to defend fanservice with the classic Mikimoto charaters." Nothing about preferring classic character designs over Mikimoto's new artwork in Macross the First.

. Are lame pantsu-jokes for example on the same level as scenes with functional nudity?

No, but not every anime production can depicting the same level of graphic nudity. Just look at how the Frontier movies have more nudity then the entire TV show. Also I think when anime shows only really use pantsu jokes and such only as a lame attempt to compensate for the lack of nudity. .

It was all over for robot anime when the first breast missile was fired in anger.

What are you only into masculine mecha with phallic weaponry or something?

[pfunk]

Not a fan of fan service unless its integral to the story which I think Macross does very well

[Save]

Not a fan of fan service unless its integral to the story which I think Macross does very well

I agree 100%.

Did I mention my all time favorite characters are Zent Klan and Ishtar. Oh the irony!

Seriously folks; Macross hasn't been what it use to be since Dynamite 7 Vol.2 Everybody seems to forget the unnerving BL naked Basara and Graham hot spring stare off. Having a naked Elma in the same scene made it even worse. "Bottom Line", this whole thread is well over a decade too late.

I'm dead serious about Klan and Ishtar.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Save

[Jasonc]

I still think the fan service thing isn't a big deal. If it's used as comedy, part of the "aura" of the title, or integral in the story, I really have no problem with it. The only time people question it, is when it doesn't fit any of that, IMO. As far as the argument of Macross not being the same, look. Just because some want to still live in the 80s, and pretend like we're all still watching anime off 3rd gen VHS tapes, doesn't mean that the rest of the community does, or that the franchise still does. Nothing is always what it used to be. That's one of the reasons why media is out there. If you don't approve of the way it's going, put in your VHS tape, your DVD, etc., and watch what it "used to be".

[s001]

I understand the whole thing about living in this time and not clinging to the past. But there's nothing wrong about having your own personal tastes and not following every new trend.

[Keith]

There's also nothing wrong with "not" becoming a prude just because you're older.

[Jasonc]

I understand the whole thing about living in this time and not clinging to the past. But there's nothing wrong about having your own personal tastes and not following every new trend.

Never said anything about your own tastes and trends, only that you have options, like DVDs and tapes you can watch in case you don't like the new Macross stuff. I personally don't care what disposition a person has on fan service, or Macross, or whatever. I do get a little annoyed at people bitching because it's not what they watched 30, or 25 years ago. Again, it's just my advice, my opinion, but instead of sounding whiny and bitching, there's options. Pop in that old VHS tape, DVD, or whatever floats your boat, and be content with that.

[Dynaman]

There's also nothing wrong with "not" becoming a prude just because you're older.

Where I live it is considered creepy not to at least pretend to be a prude. Dirty Old Man is not just a saying, it's a lifestyle.

[Renato]

Seriously folks; Macross hasn't been what it use to be since Dynamite 7 Vol.2 Everybody seems to forget the unnerving BL naked Basara and Graham hot spring stare off. Having a naked Elma in the same scene made it even worse.

Just in terms of that example -- of course we forget that scene, because we don't really see that as off-putting fan-service, unlike the panty-chasing episode of Frontier. If Elma had gone "iyaaa, hazukashii!!" (in the style of that loli chick from Aquarion Evol) and if Basara had turned bright red and looked up at the sky whilst saying "oh, em, uh.. sorry!!" then I would have face-palmed myself, but as is, the scene handles *nudity* itself rather matter-of-factly. The same goes for that "Fyana nude in the capsule" scene in Votoms -- she just happened to be nude there. Or is the entire ending of Ideon supposed to be fan service?

Nekkid Basara and Graham looking at each other can be quite comical, but I really think it's not intended for BL material...

There's also nothing wrong with "not" becoming a prude just because you're older.

Um... We live in a society, dude...

[treatment]

yeah. it just really isn't what it used to be. just look at the new generations of fans.

am pretty sure us fans of the older series wouldn't be doing this shenanigan:

http://www.animenews...hich-do-you-eat

Macross Frontier Underwear Asks 'Which Do You Eat?'

Fan club offers 3 boxer pants with Devil & Sweets Sheryl, Ranka

Super Galaxy Fan Club F Tamashii, the official Macross Frontier fan club, announced on Wednesday that it will begin taking orders for three varieties of Macross F boxer pants on May 1.

Each pair of seamless boxer pants will feature a character from the series, and will cost 2,940 yen (about US$36) a pair. The three one-size-fits-all pants styles are named "Sheryl Nome Devil Denim ver.," "Sheryl Nome Sweets-holic ver.," and "Ranka Lee oosanshouuo-san ver."

While initial preorders will be exclusively available to members of the F Tamashii fan club, plans to sell the boxers to the general public are also underway.

srsly, Frontier-fans?

W T F ?!

Edited April 27, 2012 by treatment

[Save]

Just in terms of that example -- of course we forget that scene, because we don't really see that as off-putting fan-service, unlike the panty-chasing episode of Frontier. If Elma had gone "iyaaa, hazukashii!!" (in the style of that loli chick from Aquarion Evol) and if Basara had turned bright red and looked up at the sky whilst saying "oh, em, uh.. sorry!!" then I would have face-palmed myself, but as is, the scene handles *nudity* itself rather matter-of-factly. The same goes for that "Fyana nude in the capsule" scene in Votoms -- she just happened to be nude there. Or is the entire ending of Ideon supposed to be fan service?

Nekkid Basara and Graham looking at each other can be quite comical, but I really think it's not intended for BL material...

As you know I hang out with younger anime fans here in Tokyo. I watched that episode in a room full of today's younger fans both male and female and the crowd's reaction was the same as if we were watching Aquarion Evol. Total BL prime moment just like when Amuro and Char almost kissed at the end of their zero gravity sword fight.

[Save]

yeah. it just really isn't what it used to be. just look at the new generations of fans.

am pretty sure us fans of the older series wouldn't be doing this shenanigan:

http://www.animenews...hich-do-you-eat

srsly, Frontier-fans?

W T F ?!

I'm not the oldest of fans and certainly not the youngest, but I'm upset that Zent Klan again is left out of a product I would buy.

Edited April 27, 2012 by Save

[Keith]

Um... We live in a society, dude...

A society that embraces destructive voilent behavoirs over healthy sexual one's. Obviously some things need changing.

[reeoyuy]

yeah. it just really isn't what it used to be. just look at the new generations of fans.

am pretty sure us fans of the older series wouldn't be doing this shenanigan:

http://www.animenews...hich-do-you-eat

srsly, Frontier-fans?

W T F ?!

Oh I'm suuure fans of older super robot genre in 1982 also complained on how the genre and its fans is not what it used to be.

yeah. it just really isn't what it used to be. just look at the new generations of fans.

am pretty sure us fans of the older series wouldn't be doing this shenanigan:

srsly, Macross-fans? Cheesy love triangle and pop idol in our robot anime?

W T F ?!

To look down upon young uns and told yourself you the wisest one would never act like them is a sure sign that you're getting old :P