Super Dimension Southern Calvary Cross

[rei]

Do you guys think the series is popular enough to get products made. I really love Southern Cross and would kill for some fully transformable Hovertanks and Bioroids. It would be a dream if Yamato or another competent toy company made them, if they were ever to see light.

[Tober]

Although I liked it too, it was not popular (especially in Japan) so I think it's rather unlikley unless there are MASSIVE sales of other Robotech product to justify an international release.

[Gubaba]

First off...don't you mean "Super Dimension CAVALRY"...? "Calvary" has quite a different meaning, especially when combined with "Cross"...

Second...I really doubt it. Back in the day, I had model kits of Jeanne, Lana, Charles (or was it Aderzej...?), the hoverbike, Seifreit's Bioroid, and some aquatic guy who never actually showed up in the show...from the booklet that came with one of the models, it seemed like the merchandizing push was less aimed towards the mecha and more to the armor, and I don't think a Spartas toy or model was ever produced (except for the crappy Robotech one which could only transform from tank to gerwalk). If Southern Cross, for whatever reason, gained a new surge in popularity, we might see the old models making a comeback (a la Mospeada, or the Bandai Macross reissues), but there STILL wouldn't be any Spartas. And even that kind of popularity seems unlikely, let alone any increase big enough to warrant making brand new toys.

Yamato (or whoever) couldn't even really go for the nostalgia crowd, since it's predicated on the "Hey, I remember that!" factor...but no one watched the show in the first place, so who would remember it?

Your best hope would be Toynami, but I think it's still a VERY long shot. A kind email letting them know of your interest certainly couldn't hurt, though.

[Alpha OTS]

I don't think a Spartas toy or model was ever produced (except for the crappy Robotech one which could only transform from tank to gerwalk).

Your best hope would be Toynami, but I think it's still a VERY long shot. A kind email letting them know of your interest certainly couldn't hurt, though.

I thought the Robotech one went from gerwalk to robot and didn't have a tank mode. I never owned one, but apart from that glaring flaw, it didn't look that crappy.

Our best hope is not only Toynami but, as unpopular as this may sound here, Robotech. *If* the next Shadow Chronicles were to include a Spartas, we might actually see a good model/figure of it. However, I have a sinking feeling we're not going to see new mecha in any future fiction.

Edit: Found an auction with pics here.. Does look rather plain, but it is a product of its time.

Edited May 11, 2008 by Alpha OTS

[Gubaba]

I thought the Robotech one went from gerwalk to robot and didn't have a tank mode. I never owned one, but apart from that glaring flaw, it didn't look that crappy.

Oops, you're right.

http://www.toyarchive.com/STAForSale/NEW20...oLooseMAT1a.jpg

I never had it, either...just saw it in the toy store.

I still say it looks crappy, though.

[VFTF1]

I actually like the premise of Southern Cross. I remember it was probably my favorite RPG. But this is because I have a soft spot for post-apocalyptic settings.

If mecha were issued - I would buy!

VFTF1

[Gubaba]

Okay, I've already amply demonstrated my faulty Southern Cross memory, but...how was it post-apocalyptic? Wasn't it a space colonization story?

[Alpha OTS]

Okay, I've already amply demonstrated my faulty Southern Cross memory, but...how was it post-apocalyptic? Wasn't it a space colonization story?

I think that's the Robotech vs. Southern Cross difference. Robotech took place on Earth, Southern Cross was a space colony.

Never saw the original Southern Cross though, just going from what I read on the wiki after having rewatched the Robotech version a couple years back.

[VFTF1]

Yeah - I never actually watched the show either (never watched Robotech at all!). I just played the Palladin roll playing game and it was post-apocalyptic - it was basically like a continuation of SDF-Macross with the simmering resentment of the Zendradi on a post- Boldoza attack Earth.

At the risk of being tarred and feathered- this is the only part of the Robotech saga which I think was generally well done - at least in terms of the general outline - a basic continuation of the "Zendradi find it hard to assimilate" theme -

Also - as I said - I have a soft spot for everything and anything taking place in big, open terrains with lots of rocks, fragmented civilizations, and a world that is vastly extinct and raw - aka post apocalyptic:)

VFTF1

[rei]

Gubaba:

I haven't seen the Japanese run but from what I have heard you are correct. Earth was unihabitible and the humans colonized this planet Glorie.

Alpha OTS: Thanks.I've been snooping EBAY for a glimpse of one of these for sale and also found it this morning.

I'll admit it is clunky, unarticulated and lacks much detail, which is why I'd really like to see an updated from come into existence. I think someone did a kitbash of one of these guys to get it in tank mode a while back.

If* the next Shadow Chronicles were to include a Spartas, we might actually see a good model/figure of it.

Yeah your'e probably right. This would likely be the only way and it's pretty doubtful like most have said. Rats.

There are variants of the hovertank too. AGACS would also be rad. Keep dreaming right.

[Gubaba]

At the risk of being tarred and feathered- this is the only part of the Robotech saga which I think was generally well done - at least in terms of the general outline - a basic continuation of the "Zendradi find it hard to assimilate" theme -

Spoken like someone who never actually saw Robotech!

EDIT: Does anyone else think we should introduce a "Robotech Thread of Hate"? That way we could filter all the rage and poison into there, and try to keep it from erupting all over the place in other threads...? Besides, it would easily be the most fun thread here...especially if we got some Robotech apologists to act as piñatas...

Edited May 11, 2008 by Gubaba

[rei]

At the risk of being tarred and feathered- this is the only part of the Robotech saga which I think was generally well done - at least in terms of the general outline - a basic continuation of the "Zendradi find it hard to assimilate" theme -

I will say that of the RT series, I really like Southern Cross because it demystifies a lot of the big picture. It really goes behind the scenes of what the SDF-1 is, connection to the Masters. role of Zentraedi, etc and sets the stage well for the coming Invid. I also like the maturity of values concerning humanity, culture and society. A great series to me.

[jenius]

While I really dislike Southern Cross, and HATE The Masters portion of Robotech (they stripped all the cool aspects of the mediocre show away and dissolved it into a glue to attach Macross to Mospeada) I believe the issue is really one of licensing. Didn't those podcasters (can't remember their names right now) say that Big West owns the rights to all the mechs and designs and that's why none of them appeared in Shadow Chronicles? If Tatsunoko owned it you'd have a chance but if this is a BW issue no dice.

[VFTF1]

EDIT: Does anyone else think we should introduce a "Robotech Thread of Hate"? That way we could filter all the rage and poison into there, and try to keep it from erupting all over the place in other threads...? Besides, it would easily be the most fun thread here...especially if we got some Robotech apologists to act as piñatas...

Oh yes- can we please? I was actually wanting to create such a thread but the rules do say "no Robotech" ...

The best thing about a "Spitting on Robotech" Thread would be that ONLY hatred would be allowed there. No discussion of the "merits or demerits" - only pure making fun of and hating on Robotech.

I figure that wouldn't break the rules - because we wouldn't be "discussing" Robotech - we'd be venting our hatred of it?

Can we please?

I just watched Shadow Chronicles on YouTube and I have so much rage and disgust and laughter to spill forth

I could even volunteer to moderate the thread. I would happily delete any and all posts that had anything EXCEPT for contempt and loathing for Robotech

pretty please

VFTF1

[Alpha OTS]

While I really dislike Southern Cross, and HATE The Masters portion of Robotech (they stripped all the cool aspects of the mediocre show away and dissolved it into a glue to attach Macross to Mospeada) I believe the issue is really one of licensing. Didn't those podcasters (can't remember their names right now) say that Big West owns the rights to all the mechs and designs and that's why none of them appeared in Shadow Chronicles? If Tatsunoko owned it you'd have a chance but if this is a BW issue no dice.

I hated Robotech Masters up until the last few episodes where I actually started liking the characters, and then it abruptly ends. Only thing I really liked about it was the mecha and some of the battles.

But, how about this hypothetical, which is unfortunately unlikely. What if Robotech Shadow Chronicles made their own transforming hover tank? Since it's a Robotech property would it still be connected to BW even though it's not the same design? Would they be ok if they renamed it? Is a transforming tank out of the question?

Robotech/Southern Cross/whatever, we really do need a Macrossish transforming tank. I don't care what mythos it has to come from, I'd just like to see a good one.

[VFTF1]

we really do need a Macrossish transforming tank.

It's called the Konig Monster

It's a Transforming Tank - only instead of treads, it has feet - and this really comes in handy when you build tanks for interstellar warfare - since treads wouldn't really be so useful in outerspace for destroids...

VFTF1

[Alpha OTS]

It's called the Konig Monster

It's a Transforming Tank - only instead of treads, it has feet - and this really comes in handy when you build tanks for interstellar warfare - since treads wouldn't really be so useful in outerspace for destroids...

VFTF1

I guess. I like the way the Spartas were used though. The Monster always struck me as more of a long range assault vehicle, and not very mobile.

[danth]

It's called the Konig Monster

It's a Transforming Tank - only instead of treads, it has feet - and this really comes in handy when you build tanks for interstellar warfare - since treads wouldn't really be so useful in outerspace for destroids...

VFTF1

Not sure if feet are so useful either, though.

[Gubaba]

I agree that the Spartas was a relatively cool design (as were a lot of the Southern Cross mecha - space helicopters aside, that is...and even they at least LOOKED pretty good, ridiculous as the concept was). And I did like the armor. If some kind of hovertank showed it in Shadow Rising, it might make a neat toy...as long as the transformation was simpler that the Spartas, which IIRC was probably too complicated for its own good.

[Gubaba]

Not sure if feet are so useful either, though.

First Gundam, man. The Guntank looked pretty silly flying in space, but feet can be used for kicking.

Can't you just imagine a flying Destroid Monster kick?

(whaddya mean, "no"...?)

[Scream Man]

Why do we need a "I hate Robotech" thread? 90% of people here hate it. do we all need to unite around a bit more venom or soemthing?

Ive always been bummed some people find nothing good in the show. it had its merits.

As for Southern Cross, Id dig hovertanks. always liked the design myself, and i still have a hovertank floating around somewhere (I believe i drew UN Spacy kits on the arms....)

[Gubaba]

Why do we need a "I hate Robotech" thread? 90% of people here hate it. do we all need to unite around a bit more venom or soemthing?

Ive always been bummed some people find nothing good in the show. it had its merits.

Yes, it did. It certainly wasn't an atrocity on the scale of, say, Battle of the Planets.

And I have nothing against Carl Macek, who accomplished quite a lot, despite (or because of) the rather imposing amount of restrictions and regulations necessary to get the show on the air.

But I do get a certain childish glee out of bashing Robotech. And bashing Robotech fans (well, bashing the ones who really should know better) is even more fun. It's mean and it's petty, but what can I say? I enjoy it.

[VFTF1]

I will be fair:

1. In the days before the internet, and before the anime explosion, and before we realized where our Transformers came from - the efforts of the people who brought Robotech to the US were understandable, and even admirable. They wanted to expose Americans to some truly great works.

2. I have full sympathy for this effort and the predicament. It strives for putting high value of animated stories and high value on toys/figures/models rather than having crappy stuff litter the shelves and the airwaves.

3. This does not change the fact that the source material is SUPERIOR. So naturally, now, in the age of the internet, when people HAVE a choice - I jut can't fathom prefering Robotech to Macross.

4. So I don't "hate" Robotech - obviously it's bad to hate anything, as Richard Nixon said "Hate only destroys the hater" (or something like that) - but I don't like it compared to Macross - it's a terrible terrible show.

5. But in its' time - given the alternative was NOTHING - Robotech the cartoon and the RPGs (which got me on board) were probably the best gateway to the wonderful world of Japanese anime.

There. I've been fair.

Now let me end by saying Robotech SUKKZORZZ!!

VFTF1

[Alpha OTS]

These last few posts have not been about hovertanks. We need more talk and pictures of hovertanks.

HOVERTANKS!

[Scream Man]

I never said Macross wasnt superior, I just said Robotech wasnt as bad as it's made out to be.

Is their lineart for the hovertanks floating(ha!) around anywhere? i never could quite figure out how they changed modes...

[jenius]

Ugh, they're such a bad design. I really like the notion of a transformable tank (even if it's kind of tough to determine WHY such a thing would exist) but the Hovertank is poorly executed. It starts with the whole open "cockpit" in the first versions and extends through varoius aspects that just make it all kind of silly.

[rei]

Well if there were a “Let’s bash Robotech” thread, I’d definitely chime in to defend the series. I grew up watching Robotech (as I’m sure many here have as well) and loved it then and still do. I’m American and like the voices and dialogue. I’m still entranced by the background music, stories, narrator, and all of the details to make it what is. It’s nostalgic to me.

This doesn’t mean I don’t appreciate or like true anime in Japanese with or without subtitles. Each film is unique in its own way. I’ll even admit that the Robotech version of Macross is my least favorite of the three. I know the original kicks way more ass and DYRL is untoucheable. Still, Robotech hits home in it’s own way.

If Macrossworld is so conservative that it doesn’t want to hold any discussions about RT, hey I can understand. This thread initially began soley about entertaining the prospects of toys being made for a series that walks on both sides of the street depending which way your fandom lies. If you guys prefer that RT fans should only post over at RT.com on such matters I think that’s asking a bit much. I would have done so actually but since they are so biased over there you can’t high five any other companies except Crapnami.

Anyway, I’m proud to enjoy Robotech and value it for what it is regardless of there are alternate versions, or if “the original is better”. Better to who and in what way?

These last few posts have not been about hovertanks. We need more talk and pictures of hovertanks.

HOVERTANKS!

In guardian or gerwalk mode, the tank became a howitzer/gunstation but I never saw any horizontal angular rotation in the series, just up/down pivoting. If they were made, they should swivel from left to right. As for the open cockpit in tank mode, I could see the chair unit and console to elevate upward in mild environments and conceal in space or when under fire.

[Gubaba]

Well if there were a “Let’s bash Robotech” thread, I’d definitely chime in to defend the series. I grew up watching Robotech (as I’m sure many here have as well) and loved it then and still do. I’m American and like the voices and dialogue. I’m still entranced by the background music, stories, narrator, and all of the details to make it what is. It’s nostalgic to me.

This doesn’t mean I don’t appreciate or like true anime in Japanese with or without subtitles. Each film is unique in its own way. I’ll even admit that the Robotech version of Macross is my least favorite of the three. I know the original kicks way more ass and DYRL is untoucheable. Still, Robotech hits home in it’s own way.

If Macrossworld is so conservative that it doesn’t want to hold any discussions about RT, hey I can understand. This thread initially began soley about entertaining the prospects of toys being made for a series that walks on both sides of the street depending which way your fandom lies. If you guys prefer that RT fans should only post over at RT.com on such matters I think that’s asking a bit much. I would have done so actually but since they are so biased over there you can’t high five any other companies except Crapnami.

Anyway, I’m proud to enjoy Robotech and value it for what it is regardless of there are alternate versions, or if “the original is better”. Better to who and in what way?

Point well taken. I need to remember that not all Robotech fans are not all of the "ROBOTECH CAME FIRST!" variety. And, as I said before, I'll take Robotech over REAL hackjobs like Battle of the Planets any day.

In guardian or gerwalk mode, the tank became a howitzer/gunstation but I never saw any horizontal angular rotation in the series, just up/down pivoting. If they were made, they should swivel from left to right. As for the open cockpit in tank mode, I could see the chair unit and console to elevate upward in mild environments and conceal in space or when under fire.

Yeah...it's the swiveling chair that makes me think the design was too complicated for '80s toy standards. Perhaps now someone would be able to replicate the transformation well. But can anyone verify that the transformation "worked" in the first place...? Or was there a lot of Anime Magic involved?

[jenius]

Every transformation works... at some scale.

[Vermillion21]

I grew up watching Robotech (as I’m sure many here have as well) and loved it then and still do. I’m American and like the voices and dialogue. I’m still entranced by the background music, stories, narrator, and all of the details to make it what is. It’s nostalgic to me.

Anyway, I’m proud to enjoy Robotech and value it for what it is regardless of there are alternate versions, or if “the original is better”. Better to who and in what way?

Ditto. And I would love some Southern Cross mecha toys ...

[yellowlightman]

Point well taken. I need to remember that not all Robotech fans are not all of the "ROBOTECH CAME FIRST!" variety. And, as I said before, I'll take Robotech over REAL hackjobs like Battle of the Planets any day.

I have a hard time believing there are any Robotech fans who genuinely think Robotech came first. Most Robotech fans I've met have been fans of both series, and at least a basic understanding of the differences between the series and the Japanese originals and Robotech's origins.

And for any extremely retarded Robotech fans that might buck the trend, I could point out just as many massive idiots on Macross World, so...

[Gubaba]

I have a hard time believing there are any Robotech fans who genuinely think Robotech came first. Most Robotech fans I've met have been fans of both series, and at least a basic understanding of the differences between the series and the Japanese originals and Robotech's origins.

And for any extremely retarded Robotech fans that might buck the trend, I could point out just as many massive idiots on Macross World, so...

Admittedly, the "Robotech Came First" line is an extreme example...but I've definitely come across some Bizarro-World Robotech fans. Of course, every thing possible to be followed has its share of deluded, obssessive followers...but deluded obssessive Robotech followers bug me more than most others, at least in the realm of entertainment. ("Ayn Rand is God" people irk me the most, though...probably because I dated one for a while.)

[lord_breetai]

Admittedly, the "Robotech Came First" line is an extreme example...but I've definitely come across some Bizarro-World Robotech fans. Of course, every thing possible to be followed has its share of deluded, obssessive followers...but deluded obssessive Robotech followers bug me more than most others, at least in the realm of entertainment. ("Ayn Rand is God" people irk me the most, though...probably because I dated one for a while.)

Actually I've seen people who think the Robotech Novels come first, I've seen comments on different Macross series "Did the Japanese even read Mckinney's novels? they're butchering it so bad"

But generally they belong to this group of people who believe that if there's a tv series and novels with the same story, the novels MUST have come first.

To be fair I'm an on again/off-again Robotech fan... I enjoy a lot of the original content in the comics, novels, sentinels video, Shadow Chronicles, rpgs and so on... and even enjoy the dubs for nostalgia (especially the Southern Cross version)...

But Macross is better just on the fact that I love Mari, and Reba makes my ears bleed... Of course it's better for other reasons too.

[VFTF1]

("Ayn Rand is God" people irk me the most, though...probably because I dated one for a while.)

Hover Tanks are great. You dated an Ayn Rand cultist?! That's awesome! You should write an article or a book about it Personally I love Ayn Rand - well, at least I liked her Fountainhead (Atlas Shrugged put me to sleep), but beyond her one hit wonder of a book and some interesting appearances on Donahue, she was a tad flawed - albeit, largely because she cultivated a...er...wel cult If she told the cult-worshippers to go home and do something original - she would have probably come out better. Either that or she just should have embraced being a pop cultural diva - but she was too serious for that

Oh - and Hover Tanks really rock, despite the open cockpit which kind of makes the "tank" part redundant...Anyways - the reason I find it interesting that you dated an "Ayn Rand is God" person is that... in this age of the internet such people should by all rights be extinct. I mean; information on the whole Branden/Rand falling out/affair is readily available, as is information on the big differences between the "official" Piekoff Objectivist Center and the NBI (Nathaniel Branden Institute - they use some of Rand's thought in their self-esteem psychology but shy away from the notion of advocating mass genocide of people who disagree with them:) )...

So, wonder how those Hover Tanks transform? The point is - an "Ayn Rand is God" person would be really hard to find nowadays - not because Rand doesn't deserve respect, but because the nuances and flaws and various threads of Randianism are very well known - or at least easily accessable - and since I presume "Ayn Rand is God" people would do nothing except read about their idol - didn't your date EVER stumble on any of this other stuff that basically teaches us how to appreciate Ayn Rand without idolizing her?

And uh... the one thing I didn't much like about Southern Cross was that other than those biroids and the hover tanks - I don't think they had much other Mecha - did they?

VFTF1

[Awacs]

And uh... the one thing I didn't much like about Southern Cross was that other than those biroids and the hover tanks - I don't think they had much other Mecha - did they?

VFTF1

There was the "Flying Cat" (Logan in Robotech), the Auroran (AGACS in Robotech), several non-transformables seen in the series and a number more seen in the opening animation and a military police robot thing - off the top of my head.

I actually fall into the category of "prefer the original versions, but still have a mild soft spot for "Robotech". I've got SDF Macross and GC Mospeada for when I want to watch the shows properly, and I've got "Robotech" for when I am more in the mood to watch the tat versions. That said - when a friend and I watched "Shadow Chronicles" we did end up getting extremely drunk in order to cope with the pain....

Mind you, I actually have come across the "Robotech came first" lobby - one or two folk have said in my presence "When the Japanese dubbed Robotech into Japanese they just did the Macross Saga and pretended it was a show by itself". Which fills me full of irritation and choler.

Karl