VFTF1 Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 Ok - I'm sick of all the ace pilot worship Time for the little guys! Kakizake talked a good fight, but he would have been toast a long long time ago without Max and Hikaru to babysit him in combat. Ultimately, not even these two aces were able to save Kakizake from what the pinpoint barrier explosion which was just too huge to handle. But the verdict is evident: Kakizake sucked as a pilot all along - he just had really loyal friends who were concerned with his wellfare - and he was a nice guy. Physica... As SOOOON as Physica mentions his wife and child on Macross 7, you KNOW he's going to buy it. That's just how cartoon cliche works... what I DIDN'T expect- and therefore was happy to see - was that Physica's wife had been with another man for quite some time - a shock to Gamlin and an injection of complex and welcome realism into the M7 story line... Still - that's beside the point ...so ... Physica was a GOOD pilot. Diamond force had been in one hairy battle after another and held its' own. Maybe the lack of their commanding officer had something to do with it, maybe just dumb luck (after all, in war, it often doesn't matter how "skilled" you are - there's chaos and the chaos will swallow you up) ... But Physica's death was not indicative of him being a bad pilot... Actually - on this note - a sideline... why is it that Gamlin the ace pilot always goes "AAAARRRR!!!" and gets all worked up - as if his swelling emotions were somehow the equivalent of concentration and skills? This is what I appreciated about Max in SDFM - he was cool, calm - smooth - he didn't need to yell Gung ho! - he just flew and did his thing... Back to the subject... Any other cannon fodder you guys can think of? I'm currently watching M7 and the two new members of Diamond Force have been introduced to Gamlin - these guys are such classic cannon fodder that I half think they actually won't be killed because they're just too cut out for their roles... VFTF1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeszekely Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 Physica died, and had almost zero character development until they wanted to give us a reason to care that they were going to kill him, but he was hardly a cannon fodder pilot. The very fact that he was in Diamond Force meant he was an ace, since Diamond Force was an elite unit. Personally, I'm torn. I can't decide if my favorite cannon fodder pilot was the one in brown Valkyrie #9 in SDF Macross or the one VF-11 pilot who ejected his cockpit right into the Elgerzorne's claws and got his spiritia drained every other episode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exsedol Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 Pretty much every character that isn't part of the story becomes an orange crescent at one point or another Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumdumgai Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 Greatest cannon fodder pilot? The Q-rau pilot that scored the hits that killed Roy Focker. She was the greatest cannon fodder pilot the series has ever known! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB0 Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 Kakizaki, hands down. Aside from the fact that he flew a brownie and LIVED(for a while), he was actually improving.By the time of Burst Point, while he certainly wasn't a super pilot, he was holding his own in combat. It was just dumb luck that placed him that extra bit closer to the Macross when all hell broke loose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruskiiVFaussie Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 (edited) Kakizaki, poor big guy... *sniff* Get's it bad in the DYRL? movie more-so! Death by Millia... nastyyyyyyyy You'd think Max would be really pissed off by the fact his soon to be woman killing his wingman right? I guess it was just a case of "dammit, oh well he had it coming sooner or later..." lol You suck Max! Edited October 26, 2007 by ruskiiVFaussie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmaker Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 Greatest cannon fodder pilot? The Q-rau pilot that scored the hits that killed Roy Focker. She was the greatest cannon fodder pilot the series has ever known! I'd have to agree here. I used to think it was Millia that strafed Roy from his 6, but it's not. That'd make her the "greatest" of the CF pilots since she shot up Roy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exsedol Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 Kakizaki, poor big guy... *sniff* Get's it bad in the DYRL? movie more-so! Death by Millia... nastyyyyyyyy Was it Millia that nailed him or one of the others? I can't remember. But atleast he went down honorably in dyrl even though he was making fun of the meltrans right before he died LoL better than being killed by patricide Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB0 Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 Was it Millia that nailed him or one of the others? I can't remember. But atleast he went down honorably in dyrl even though he was making fun of the meltrans right before he died LoL better than being killed by patricide It was Millia. She headshot-ed him before anyone saw her. Then went for Max, who was already moving. Dogfight/foreplay ensues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruskiiVFaussie Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 Yes, no chance for a recovery there... the creators didn't care much for laughing boy. Yes this is true, he died whilst paying out the Meltran... legend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sqidd Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 Kakizake all the way. I knew he was going to bite it the first time I saw him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exsedol Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 I'd have liked to have seen more of kakizaki in dyrl But still the bottom line is, Macross cannon fodder characters own even key characters in other series because they were key characters. That's what set Macross apart in the US atleast. Cartoons just didn't show main characters dying off till macross/robotech came along Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EXO Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 Pretty much every character that isn't part of the story becomes an orange crescent at one point or another haha, orange crescent... I like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishimaru Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 Kakizaki, hands down. Aside from the fact that he flew a brownie and LIVED(for a while), he was actually improving.By the time of Burst Point, while he certainly wasn't a super pilot, he was holding his own in combat. It was just dumb luck that placed him that extra bit closer to the Macross when all hell broke loose. Agreed. I'm surprised he didn't get shot down, and he didn't instead he was blown off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugimon Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 It's gotta be hikaru. He's managed to get shot down in three different variants for a total of 6 valks (vf-1d, vf-1j, vf-1j armored, vf-1j-misa, vf-1j breetai, vf-1s) and he's been shot down not only by the enemy but by his own people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
areaseven Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 Kakizaki all the way. No one really cared about Physica. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isamu test pilot Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 VFTF1 I agree with you, is time for the little guys And for me Kakizaki is the best... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy007 Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 It's gotta be hikaru. He's managed to get shot down in three different variants for a total of 6 valks (vf-1d, vf-1j, vf-1j armored, vf-1j-misa, vf-1j breetai, vf-1s) and he's been shot down not only by the enemy but by his own people. this does not make him cannon fodder....this makes him lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishimaru Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 this does not make him cannon fodder....this makes him lucky. And Hikaru wasn't a cannon folder, was he? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB0 Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 And Hikaru wasn't a cannon folder, was he? Nope. Just his planes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmaker Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 And Hikaru wasn't a cannon folder, was he? No, he wasn't a "CF" pilot, but since eugimon pointed out the sheer amount of Valks Hikaru lost, his standing among Macross pilots has lowered in my eyes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumdumgai Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 Yeah, but Hikaru doesn't quite count as he had a full name, background, character development, and survived every time of being shot down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruskiiVFaussie Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 (edited) That time he lost out in the Recon mission (with the 1J and GBP-1S that was a hard fought battle), how can anyone say that's lowered their expectation of him as a pilot i dunno. : / He kicked much arse then, and his assination mission in DYRL? was masterful. FOr someone who came flying in a Fan-Jet and upgraded to a highly sophisticated variable fighter i mean wow. Edited October 29, 2007 by ruskiiVFaussie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmaker Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 I said before Hikaru wasn't a CF pilot (after all, he was a major character). I also did not say he was a poor pilot! All I said, was that since eugimon reminded me of how many Valks were lost by Hikaru, his standing among Macross pilots went down in my eyes. Consider the crowd of characters who are at least good pilots he is with in the Macross shows: The likes of Isamu, Guld, Millia, and of course, Roy and Max. (I haven't seen all of Macross Zero, so...) As far as the "best" Macross Aces go: ** Roy doesn't lose a single VF-1, but he gets lined up for a fatal strafe from a Quadluun Rau. But his VF-1S is still in fighting condition to RTB (return to base). ** Max loses 1 VF, his early white w/ blue patterned VF-1A. This was during his rescue mission of his friends aboard the enemy flagship, the episode where he also sneaks around the ship with his "incognito" VF-1A ** Millia does not lose any of her vehicles either. Her Quadluun Rau gets shot up by Max in their fateful duel around the SDF and inside the SDF's city. Despite the attack by Max, her Q-Rau is also in good enough condition to RTB. From the rest of SDFM, she does not lose her red VF-1J when she switches sides (some other schmuck loses her beloved -1J in Macross 7). As far as Hikaru coming in with his Fan Jet and eventually becoming an ace, I bring up a better example: Max! He just signed up, fresh off the street, received basic training alongside Kakizaki, and starts right off becoming an ace, impressing even a veteran like Hikaru (who was flying his VF-1J at this time, IIRC). Remember, Hikaru was already an experienced pilot prior to the first episode of SDFM! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB0 Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 (some other schmuck loses her beloved -1J in Macross 7). I declare Gamlin honorary cannon fodder for that sin! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruskiiVFaussie Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 (edited) ** Roy doesn't lose a single VF-1, but he gets lined up for a fatal strafe from a Quadluun Rau. But his VF-1S is still in fighting condition to RTB (return to base). Roy loses (yes self destruct again haha) his first VF-0S and his second one gets f'd up. Roy's not that careful. Mind you the firefights he has are spectacular. I guess i need to add that he got his VF-1S smashed/blown up in DYRL? too? Edited October 30, 2007 by ruskiiVFaussie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumdumgai Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 LOL. I second JBO's declaration that Gamlin be issued the title of honorary Cannon Fodder for his crime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 What about the two newbies from Emerald Squadron in Mac7? Their VF-19 were vaporized in their first sortie while hiding behind an asteroid Nothing beats a cannon fodder in an expensive high tech elite VF . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmaker Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Roy loses (yes self destruct again haha) his first VF-0S and his second one gets f'd up. Roy's not that careful. Mind you the firefights he has are spectacular. I guess i need to add that he got his VF-1S smashed/blown up in DYRL? too? Like I said, I didn't see all of Macross Zero yet, just the 1st bootleg disc. As far as Roy and continuity goes, I used SDFM over DYRL? simply because it's more fleshed out as a whole. And we of course see Roy do his thing more in SDFM than in DYRL. IMO, of course. I also will third the notion of Gamlin being "Honorary Cannon Fodder." The plate of his award will read: "For the grievous sin of losing Millia Jenius' VF-1J, a historical piece from the UN Spacy's experience of Space War 1, a mount piloted by a heroine of said war, and Valkyrie long out of production. For your horrendous display of piloting ability, you are hereby awarded the title of: Honorary Cannon Fodder, 3rd Class" Signed, Adm. M.Jenius Commander, 7th Macross Fleet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruskiiVFaussie Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 :P OVA Macross Zero and DYRL? combined make more of a whole than the SDF series for mine. :P Roy hardly gets any screen time compared to Hikaru in the series. The amount of air time Roy gets is kick ass in Mac 0... he goes off. ohh man you have to see it seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumdumgai Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 M0 episode 2 makes me feel sorry for the cannon fodder pilot that Roy has a conversation with. I also felt sorry for the destroid pilots in one of the later episodes. Man they tried hard. I believe that all destroid pilots should get an honorable mention for greatness, as Space War I was brutal on the not-so mobile destroids, which were properly named. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruskiiVFaussie Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 (edited) Man didn't the Destroid pilots go off! Seriously that Pre-Excalibur Destroid was amazing chasing after DD. Almost had him! Stinking Nora had to come along and spoil the fun by doubling up on him. I would really love to have a 1/60 Destroid from Macross Zero please Yamato. heh, Don't get me started on a 1/60 Monster.... I want it to include Macross 0 arms and SDF series arm cannons. Everyone, know what would be good for the new series??? 2 Teams, Variable Fighter Pilot team and a Destroid Pilot team all intertwined together during the story. Both CF's. I want to see the Destroid pilots get some air time, kind of like how Gundam 08th OVA did it. That would be magical. Edited October 30, 2007 by ruskiiVFaussie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB0 Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Like I said, I didn't see all of Macross Zero yet, just the 1st bootleg disc. As far as Roy and continuity goes, I used SDFM over DYRL? simply because it's more fleshed out as a whole. And we of course see Roy do his thing more in SDFM than in DYRL. IMO, of course. I also will third the notion of Gamlin being "Honorary Cannon Fodder." The plate of his award will read: "For the grievous sin of losing Millia Jenius' VF-1J, a historical piece from the UN Spacy's experience of Space War 1, a mount piloted by a heroine of said war, and Valkyrie long out of production. For your horrendous display of piloting ability, you are hereby awarded the title of: Honorary Cannon Fodder, 3rd Class" Signed, Adm. M.Jenius Commander, 7th Macross Fleet PS: As soon as my wife quits ranting at ME about your complete and unmitigated incompetence as a pilot, I'm going to come over there and strangle you for fueling that rant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mog Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 ^^PPS--And if you know what's good for you, you'll stay the hell away from my VF-1A and VF-1J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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