Hayabusa Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 (edited) eugimon Posted Today, 04:14 AM anything is possible, but it's just not practical. Besides, you'd have to make the wings much thicker to accomodate the flaps. Then there's the deployment method and the likelihood of the flaps jamming or coming off their rails/guides. It's just a lot of work and effort for something that is not critical to the design of the toy nor the transformation of the toy. Waaaaaahhhh~~~ High-speedo modo go baibai~! Eh hem , I don't think it will be thick, as it is possible to make it very thin due to it being a 1/60 scale. Flaps jamming and deployment is all about trial and error/R&D. Besides its only a CAD right now so there is plenty of brainstorming for Yamato to figure the initial transformation. Once that's done it goes down to features. But you're right, it is lots of work and effort. Then again I sorta do think it is kinda critical to the YF-21... Wonder how Yamato will do it though. Edited August 7, 2007 by Hayabusa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugimon Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 Well, I think it *is* possible. I could see it being done with say one flap, being stored in the wing root and then pulled out to cover the hinge.. but, that wing root also has to hold the rear wheel well. I don't know if you would get the smooth surface you want either. I wouldn't mind the gimmick, in fact, i would prefer it to some other gimmicks discussed here... I just don't think you should get your hopes up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayabusa Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 You're right, I don't really want to shoot my hopes up too high as well. The rear landing gears aren't going to affect the wingtips as far as I know since it is more closer to the fuselage right by the arms and those landing gears are very very long. Gimmicks are everything pal! From airbrakes, engine nozzles, cockpit, landing gears, guns, bay doors, and ailerons, that's what makes a great toy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante74 Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 The wings on a 1/60 VF are 2-3 mm thick and they're made up of two pieces of plastic that are glued together. There would hardly be enough space to put anything inbetween those two pieces of plastic. Maybe if Yamato made the wings edges out of the same material as the feathers on Bandai's PG Wing Zero Custom?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayabusa Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 Rubber? No no no no no ! I had nightmares with those rubber feather with that small aluminum insert and tabs! (I do have one, but sadly the insert held to the screw broke ~.~ ) Aluminum and rubber not a good idea. I do think the YF-21 is quite a big bird so comparing it to the VF-0 might be a little handicap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr March Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 The wings on a 1/60 VF are 2-3 mm thick and they're made up of two pieces of plastic that are glued together. There would hardly be enough space to put anything inbetween those two pieces of plastic. Maybe if Yamato made the wings edges out of the same material as the feathers on Bandai's PG Wing Zero Custom?... How exactly did they do it, since I've never had the pleasure of seeing the Prefect Grade Wing Zero Custom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayabusa Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 (edited) Sorry no pics, but how Bandai did it was they took an aluminum strip with a ring hole at the bottom (for the screw to attach to the main wings), and they coated the strip with rubber shaped like a feather. So this enabled you to 'bend' the feathers as you like, but constant moving of the feathers led to the aluminum strip to wear and snap. Edited August 7, 2007 by Hayabusa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PsYcHoDyNaMiX Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 You know... It just occured to me that the YF-21 is most likely going to have removable legs. Hence removable leg on the YF-19, VF-0, and not sure about the 1/48s (since I don't own any). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugimon Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 it's HOW the legs are removable is the key to the limbless yf-21. The yf-19, vf-1, vf-0, all have a hip peg that juts out from the pelvis that the leg attaches to. This wouldn't work if you were going to do a line art accurate limbless yf-21. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PsYcHoDyNaMiX Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 (edited) Knowing them... they'll most likely leave the pegs there. XD ***EDIT*** Seeing how the hip bars are made of diecast. Edited August 7, 2007 by PsYcHoDyNaMiX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr March Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 (edited) Ahh, my thanks Hayabusa. That's like the old Gumby toys, just a little more refined and sadly just as flawed. Those are the designs I hate the most. The thing breaks with repeated usage in the short term and eventually breaks with minimal use over the long term. Edited August 7, 2007 by Mr March Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumdumgai Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 Avoid rubber for the wings. That stuff doesn't age well at all. I want my YF-21 to still be in excellent condition 10 years from now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugimon Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 Avoid rubber for the wings. That stuff doesn't age well at all. I want my YF-21 to still be in excellent condition 10 years from now. I think we may see flaps for the wings, but nothing crazy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonewolf Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 I think we may see flaps for the wings, but nothing crazy Maybe movable flaps like the 1/48 VF-1, but I doubt we'll see extending ones like on a real airplane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugimon Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 Maybe movable flaps like the 1/48 VF-1, but I doubt we'll see extending ones like on a real airplane. yeah, that's what I was thinking. Seriously, all this talk of fowler flaps, bendy wings and the like is just silly, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busted VF1A Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 (edited) I can live without the composite wings if it means avoiding flexible materials like rubber. The stuff dries out and cracks in just a few years, even the PG wing "feathers" are prone to this after a while. And while I don't care about it, I think Yamato will probably try to include the detachable limbs. I say this because it was a memorable scene in the anime and they added the removable head armor to the yf-19 even though it was only a quick scene in the anime. Besides the more complicated they make this bird the more chance of it breaking or having a flaw. IMO - Keep it simple wherever possible. As one of my favorite professors use to tell me "the difference between a good design and a great design is not the skill of the [designer*], but his ability to solve the most complex of problems with the simplest of solutions." *(he was a programming professor, but it still applies) Edited August 7, 2007 by Busted VF1A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechaninac Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 If a 1/32 scale YF-21 were to be made you could do a lot of nifty sh!t to mimic the morphing wings, including fowler flaps and malleable materials. At 1/60 scale.... Uhm.... No, not gonna happen, nor would I want them to even try; it has disaster written all over that idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Mancini Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 I don't understand the point of your idea Hayabusa. Isn't there supposed to be a seam/joint where the wings fold downward for high speed mode? It is the same joint that is used to fold the wings behind the back in Battroid mode. I didn't think there was any difference between the joint on the YF-21's wing and the joint on the SV-51's wing. Am I wrong? I just don't understand the point of a complicated system of flaps when a simple hinge is anime accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayabusa Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 (edited) Vic Mancini Yes there is a joint as to where the wing has to fold during transformation. My idea was combing a fowler flap-like mechanism to the tip of the wings only. So the wing still has a segment to fold in, but the tip area and the main wing areas are made to slide outward for the high=speed mode. That way you don't have to just bend the wing segment down for a cheap high-speed effect, but rather a more 'morhping-like' feature. Tell you what, I'm gonna just start sketching B&W drawings and an exploded diagram (I don't have scanner like anyone, but I'll do it good. Give me maybe around this week.) Edited August 7, 2007 by Hayabusa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruskiiVFaussie Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 The wings would have to be too thick for the bendy action stuff. My LM-HG Eva snap together models have the bendy/rubber joint stuffs that could somehow be used as a wing bendy trick but i can't see it happeneing without making the wing too thick. But anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Mancini Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 Vic Mancini Yes there is a joint as to where the wing has to fold during transformation. My idea was combing a fowler flap-like mechanism to the tip of the wings only. So the wing still has a segment to fold in, but the tip area and the main wing areas are made to slide outward for the high=speed mode. That way you don't have to just bend the wing segment down for a cheap high-speed effect, but rather a more 'morhping-like' feature. Tell you what, I'm gonna just start sketching B&W drawings and an exploded diagram (I don't have scanner like anyone, but I'll do it good. Give me maybe around this week.) A sketch would be helpful because I still don't understand. I was under the impression that the morphing feature had nothing to do with high speed mode. The wings simply angle down about 45 degrees at the regular old non-morphing hinge that connects the wing to the wing root. The "cheap high-speed effect" was what I thought was anime accurate. Am I wrong here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scream Man Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 Am i the only one who'd bve happy if the thing just has a fighter, Gerwalk and Battroid mode? To me even FAST Packs would be a bonus. All the rest of this stuff just seems an unnecessary extravagance and expense, on what will already be a pricey bird! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumdumgai Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 Worthless without gunpods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guld Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 Will have FP? I hope it... While I'll be selling my 1/72 w/FP, to get money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayabusa Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 Scream Man Posted Today, 03:04 PM Am i the only one who'd bve happy if the thing just has a fighter, Gerwalk and Battroid mode? To me even FAST Packs would be a bonus. All the rest of this stuff just seems an unnecessary extravagance and expense, on what will already be a pricey bird! That's very true too. Yamato is doing us a favor in making the YF-21. Anyways I thought it would take this week to get the idea on paper/computer. Here it is: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr March Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 That's not bad at all Hayabusa! It's low tech, simple and quite workable. That would actually be much more foolproof than removable legs. Interesting. Oh btw, the line art section for the YF-21 on my website has the high-speed pictures of the YF-21. YF-21 page on the Macross Mecha Manual Here's the direct picture: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayabusa Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 Ah someone who understands ! Thank you Mr March! I'm bookmarking that site too! With the idea I had, both High-speed and High-manuever mode can be done too. If I have more time later on I might fine tune the idea a little more. What I really liked about the YF-21 was during the first take off scene where the wings were shaped for that take off. The high-manuever mode I knew it was possible to make because it was just a hinge part that cants the wings downward, but the high-speed mode with the changeing wing shape was difficult at first, but after thinking I knew with some sliding parts like flaps, it was possible to draw on board. That way its hitting two birds with one stone. Both you can do the gull-wing YF-21 and the more aggressive YF-21 with slighltly bigger wings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugimon Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 again, the only problem I have with your design is that the extension will be stored in the wing root, which will also have to store the rear wheel well.The area has to be thin enough for the wing to fold over in battroid as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonely Soldier Boy Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 (edited) If we just get a high speed mode that looks anything like the lineart, I will be soooo happy. Edited August 8, 2007 by Lonely Soldier Boy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr March Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 What I really liked about the YF-21 was during the first take off scene where the wings were shaped for that take off. Yeah, the advanced composite material wing was a very impressive feature of the YF-21. It's a great little piece of sci-fi technology that I don't think I've seen anywhere else in fiction. It's a favorite feature of mine as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigspender Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 First Post maybe it will look like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugimon Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 *drool* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Mancini Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 AHH! I understand now. I was imagining something completely different, hence my confusion. Thank you for the sketches. See, I always thought that the swept back appearance of the wings in the still frame of the 21 taking off was just an exaggeration that the animators put in for artistic liscenese. I didn't clue in that the wings were actually morphed backwards at that moment even thought you see them morph just seconds before. Stupid me. A very neat idea, Hayabusa, but I doubt we'll see anything like that actually implemented in the design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Mancini Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 First Post maybe it will look like this. I've never seen those pictures before. Those are Hasegawa customs? Amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PsYcHoDyNaMiX Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 Working on that kit atm... http://macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=23152 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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