Transformer Starscream Masterpiece has arrived!

[wolfx]

Just so some of you know, my source told me that stock from HK is reported to have alot of QC problems.

[David Hingtgen]

Doesn't that kind of defeat the point? If you want a realistic overall dark grey F-15 fighter jet on your shelf, there are many companies willing to sell you pre-painted F-15 models for a whole lot less than an MP SS. And they look even BETTER in fighter mode. And are like 90% diecast if you care about materials. And you can get ones even bigger than MP SS.

PS--I'm annoyed about this "toy I'm not being forced to buy" because Thundercracker is my all-time fave TF. And there was (to me) an incredibly amazingly perfect, much larger/improved/new version of it coming out---then they utterly ruined it, and there'll never be another. I basically feel "cheated" out of what would have been my favorite transforming jet toy ever. It went from 'awesome' to 'crap'. I desperately wanted to buy it---the original mold, however.

[Subotnik]

Doesn't that kind of defeat the point? If you want a realistic overall dark grey F-15 fighter jet on your shelf, there are many companies willing to sell you pre-painted F-15 models for a whole lot less than an MP SS. And they look even BETTER in fighter mode. And are like 90% diecast if you care about materials. And you can get ones even bigger than MP SS.

PS--I'm annoyed about this "toy I'm not being forced to buy" because Thundercracker is my all-time fave TF. And there was (to me) an incredibly amazingly perfect, much larger/improved/new version of it coming out---then they utterly ruined it, and there'll never be another. I basically feel "cheated" out of what would have been my favorite transforming jet toy ever. It went from 'awesome' to 'crap'. I desperately wanted to buy it---the original mold, however.

If you want what you consider to be the perfect toy, buy some resin and learn how to sculpt. You'll never get it from a company putting out a mass produced item. Just look at how many resin and garage kit parts you can buy for the 15 million different Gundam models to make them more accurate.

[David Hingtgen]

Umm, the pic I posted above WAS perfect. It was one step away from existing as a mass-produced item, only (apparently) Kawamori decided to re-do it at the last minute and make it some bastard child of SS and the YF-19.

[UN Spacy]

Looks like someone's already made a repaint.

Props to TFmaster from TFW2005. GET OFF YER ASSES already Takara!

BTW. It's still a work in progress.

Edited October 5, 2006 by UN Spacy

[Twoducks]

If people want more cartoon accurate SS and don't care for the plane mode they can always get this much cheaper version (and it seems easy to repaint as any other of the seekers schemes):

http://www.mwctoys.com/REVIEW_123002b.htm

This and a Classics seeker could satisfy you if you don't like the MP mold (and you would still have money left to do other things).

Just so some of you know, my source told me that stock from HK is reported to have alot of QC problems.

Ok, then I'm really happy that I went with a MW e-tailer stationed in JP.

BTW, the HLJ stuff is shipped directly from Japan or from HK?

[Veritas]

Looks like someone's already made a repaint.

Props to TFmaster from TFW2005. GET OFF YER ASSES already Takara!

BTW. It's still a work in progress.

I'm not suprised. For a work in progress it looks pretty good so far. Only difference i'd make is to change the metallic paint into something more subdued. Other than that, major props to TFmaster. He made an amazing Alternator Menasor Custom not too long ago that had to be seen to be believed. I'll have to try and upload pictures when i can find them again.

Thanks for the pic.

Edited October 5, 2006 by Veritas

[Fit For Natalie]

If people want more cartoon accurate SS and don't care for the plane mode they can always get this much cheaper version (and it seems easy to repaint as any other of the seekers schemes):

http://www.mwctoys.com/REVIEW_123002b.htm

Okay, this is annoying, and as I recall, the second time that figure (or another SCF pvc) has been used by people who argue against cartoon accuracy to prove a 'point' that there's plenty of 'cartoon accurate' SS products to please people who preferred the original prototype.

Some people (like David) want a Starscream that's a fusion of semi-realistic F-15, cartoon robot design and toy design. Essentially a compromise between all those elements. Not an absolute of one aspect or another.

Like I said before, this toy is being sold to fans of Shoji Kawamori's work, fighter plane and mecha collectors in Japan. The fact that its a Transformer product is a 'bonus'. Why else would the design have elements of a Macross YF-19, as well as being painted in colours the character has never been seen in, in any incarnation, especially when this is supposed to be a G1 product?

[eugimon]

it's also annoying this thread continually getting spammed with: MP SS sucks because it isn't hyper realistic to what an F-15 colors are supposed to be// why couldn't they make it anime accurate//shoji sucks! every other post.

There are legit reasons why the changes were made: better porportions, hides gaps, better posability... not just because kawamori commanded takra to make arbitrary and expensive changes based on his personal ego. To some of us, those reasons are pretty damn good... and the sacrifices that come as a result, livable or even - gasp- pleasing. We don't need the constant lectures on conformal fuel tanks, the off color or for frak sakes, the stupid tail booms.

The toy is out people.. all this whining isnt going to change the fact that its out. I suggest starting a petition and get it to takara, maybe they'll listen and produce the version you want.

[Twoducks]

Okay, this is annoying, and as I recall, the second time that figure (or another SCF pvc) has been used by people who argue against cartoon accuracy to prove a 'point' that there's plenty of 'cartoon accurate' SS products to please people who preferred the original prototype.

My god, the second time!!... how many time has the "prototype = more accurate" rant been said? I think it's been running around more than a few months now. I just pointed out and option, but please continue feeling bitter about a stupid toy if you want.

Some people (like David) want a Starscream that's a fusion of semi-realistic F-15, cartoon robot design and toy design. Essentially a compromise between all those elements. Not an absolute of one aspect or another.

That's on the eye of the beholder. To me this toy brings the best it can out of all those elements better than the prototype, as I have already posted. To other people it doesn’t. Period.

Like I said before, this toy is being sold to fans of Shoji Kawamori's work, fighter plane and mecha collectors in Japan. The fact that its a Transformer product is a 'bonus'. Why else would the design have elements of a Macross YF-19, as well as being painted in colours the character has never been seen in, in any incarnation, especially when this is supposed to be a G1 product?

Then why the heck are a lot of people who don't care one bit about Macross (and love their TF) buying this slap in their face?? It’s an $80-$100 slap in the face you know.

And the ones who say they'll wait for the repaints (it's still going to be the same mold you know)?? They just don’t like the first scheme but are willing to buy another based more on the anime.

If I'm buying it it's because he looks like Starscream to begin with, not because the toy happens to have something in his hips like a certain old design done by Kawamori (who has made A LOT more stuff than hip kibble mechs).

[wolfx]

I'm sure there's a Shortpacked strip that illustrates the views shown on this thread.

Chill dudes. Those who don't like it, we know already know why you don't like it and you won't be parting money for it. Don't have to justify it for the 10000th time.

Ok, then I'm really happy that I went with a MW e-tailer stationed in JP.

BTW, the HLJ stuff is shipped directly from Japan or from HK?

Definately Japan. They are based in Japan after all.

[David Hingtgen]

We don't need the constant lectures on conformal fuel tanks, the off color or for frak sakes, the stupid tail booms.

The toy is out people.. all this whining isnt going to change the fact that its out. I suggest starting a petition and get it to takara, maybe they'll listen and produce the version you want.

The accuracy comments mainly are stated (by me at least) because 90% of the pro-conformal-tank people constantly state they were added to "make it a more realistic F-15 now". Adding fake/incorrect parts doesn't make something more realistic. It just adds more parts. And adding correct features from a different kind of F-15 doesn't make it more realistic either. It makes it a fictional F-15 that never existed. Does it hide the arms? Yes. Is it a better F-15? Heck no. They could add massive ground effects to Alternator Tracks to hide his feet in car mode, but it sure wouldn't make it a more realistic Vette--it'd make it some fake ricey Vette.

What does whining do? Hasbro at least knows we want G1 colors and may bring it to us. And if we're lucky (though not in a million years) they could even make a mold off the original prototype. (Who knows how far along it really was, or how many parts really are different---the entire nose and chest are the same, as are much of the arms and wings---it wouldn't need to be 100% new molds, a lot could be reused---it'd be more like Classics SS vs Classics Ramjet)

And finally---for me at least, a lot of it stems from the fact that it was so EXACTLY what we wanted, more than we ever could have hoped for. And then it all went away. Not just to the point of being "not as neat" but to the point of "I wouldn't buy it in a million years". Completely and utterly ruined.

It'd be like if the next batch of YF-19 pics come and show that Yamato "revised" the mold to have a gullet twice as deep, and much smaller wings. It was really really nice, but now it seems to look even worse than the one from years ago. And they decided to go with bright blue feet instead of grey, and magenta stripes instead of red. And paint the whole thing a deep dark tan.

[Twoducks]

The accuracy comments mainly are stated (by me at least) because 90% of the pro-conformal-tank people constantly state they were added to "make it a more realistic F-15 now". Adding fake/incorrect parts doesn't make something more realistic. It just adds more parts. And adding correct features from a different kind of F-15 doesn't make it more realistic either. It makes it a fictional F-15 that never existed. Does it hide the arms? Yes. Is it a better F-15? Heck no. They could add massive ground effects to Alternator Tracks to hide his feet in car mode, but it sure wouldn't make it a more realistic Vette--it'd make it some fake ricey Vette.

Actually, you are probably the only one that cares about all that. To the rest of the world (which doesn't care what a conformal-tank is) plane mode looks more real, they just don't like the stuff added to the arms and the stuff on the hips in robot mode.

The mold will be milked in other colours (after all, it's a cheap way to make more money). There's no need to constantly whine about that.

[Subotnik]

And adding correct features from a different kind of F-15 doesn't make it more realistic either. It makes it a fictional F-15 that never existed.

I'm pretty sure there aren't any real F-15s that transform into giant alien space robots either. You find me one of those, then we can talk about how accurate it's conformal tanks are.

[myk]

The point Dave's making is that the previous sculpt was more favorable than the final one-there was no need to deviate from that initial sculpt and the accompanying accuracy. Add in the fact that the colors are completely wrong and you've got an expensive, fancy toy that fails miserably in alot of people's eyes including mine...

Edited October 5, 2006 by myk

[Dobber]

About the QC issue. Does anyone know where Tam (TwinMoons) gets his supply from? That's where I'm wanting for mine.

Chris

[Radd]

The point Dave's making is that the previous sculpt was more favorable than the final one-there was no need to deviate from that initial sculpt and the accompanying accuracy...

But isn't that just an opinion? There are people that disagree with that opinion.

Even so, I gotta agree with him on the fuel tanks. If they're going to be there, why aren't they realistic? To be honest, I wouldn't know unless someone pointed it out, but now I do know. It's a minor thing to me, but what bothers me is I see no reason for them to be unrealistic when it's just the shape of the plastic we're talking here, isn't it? It's not a deal breaker for me, but it is puzzling.

That said, I'm torn between ordering one now, or waiting to see what Hasbro will do. It's pretty much a given it would be cheaper. I have to wonder what they'll do with the colours. I'm not certain I'd like a more G1 inspired scheme more (toy or cartoon). I like the colour scheme Takara has going, well, it seems to be different colours under different lights. Sometimes he looks more greenish, sometimes he looks more blue-ish (Neither makes him look much like Skywarp, in my opinion).

I also wonder when we'll see repaints. I'm looking forward to both Thundercracker and Skywarp. My Alternators collection is rather lopsided at the moment.

[ghostryder]

I'm just disappointed in the stress mark issue - that means stress marks will be even more visible on the darker plastic for what I really want (Thundercracker, or even Skywarp re-paint). If they make a G1- color SS, this won't be as much of an issue.

If only they used the same ABS that Yamato uses on their 1/48s. I've never seen a single stress mark on any of my valks - even on the BP8s for my CF and Stealth.

[GobotFool]

While the changes to MP screamer were not dealbreakers for me I myself and disapointed, this has moved it from being a really great MP Starscream to merely just a pretty damn cool transforming jet in my book, at best a BT starscream. BT's are for revisioning, MP's are for homages in my eyes, but hey, not in the eyes of takara, so I guess I won't batty to much.

[do not disturb]

Doesn't that kind of defeat the point? If you want a realistic overall dark grey F-15 fighter jet on your shelf, there are many companies willing to sell you pre-painted F-15 models for a whole lot less than an MP SS. And they look even BETTER in fighter mode. And are like 90% diecast if you care about materials. And you can get ones even bigger than MP SS.

i was kind of joking but you're right in one sense. but dont' forget that part of the charm of this toy is the fact that it has the option to transform. SS like the AB, its just not that pretty in robot mode but that doesn't mean i'll never transform it to battroid. i just prefer the the asthetics of fighter mode over robot mode on both toys. i guess i could get a more accurate version but i won't have th eoption to transform it.

but then again, it not like i'm buying this version. if they went with a true grey, it would've been easier to cough up the loot but since its some weird combo of green/blue, i'd rather not buy it and be disappointed...but to each his own.

[JB0]

And finally---for me at least, a lot of it stems from the fact that it was so EXACTLY what we wanted, more than we ever could have hoped for. And then it all went away. Not just to the point of being "not as neat" but to the point of "I wouldn't buy it in a million years". Completely and utterly ruined.

And for us, it went from a neat idea with way too much crap hanging off the legs to something we'd actually buy.

There's 2 sides to this argument, and plenty of people that thought the final version was an improvement, regardless of the fake fuel tanks and wrong shade of gray. I wouldn't have bought the original version regardless. The new one I'll probably grab once it comes out in a real Starscream paint job.

[MrDisco]

i just saw the mp ss on hlj. wow that's pretty fugly. what were they thinking coming up with that odd paint scheme that ss has never been in? at any rate i'm glad i cancelled my pre-order months ago.

edit: the ss acurate colour photshop pic that david posted earlier in the thread is so much nicer :|

Edited October 5, 2006 by MrDisco

[Subotnik]

I'm just disappointed in the stress mark issue - that means stress marks will be even more visible on the darker plastic for what I really want (Thundercracker, or even Skywarp re-paint). If they make a G1- color SS, this won't be as much of an issue.

If only they used the same ABS that Yamato uses on their 1/48s. I've never seen a single stress mark on any of my valks - even on the BP8s for my CF and Stealth.

I've transformed mine more than a dozen times so far and haven't had any stress marks. I think most of them have been a result of poor/rushed assembly.

[holytoledo69]

I've transformed mine more than a dozen times so far and haven't had any stress marks. I think most of them have been a result of poor/rushed assembly.

I think its due to rough handling of the said MP-03 by people who bought them. I transformed mine over a dozen times already too. No plastic stress marks. Just dont be overly rough with it.

[promethuem5]

Ahhh...can't wait for mine to come. How big is the box?

[areaseven]

Okay, this is annoying, and as I recall, the second time that figure (or another SCF pvc) has been used by people who argue against cartoon accuracy to prove a 'point' that there's plenty of 'cartoon accurate' SS products to please people who preferred the original prototype.

You know what's even more annoying? Having to see that same pic twice on the thread.

[holytoledo69]

Ahhh...can't wait for mine to come. How big is the box?

Its about the length of MPOP but its flatter and wider. Come to think of it, Yamato could of boxed their 1/48's like this and saved us some money.

[JB0]

You know what's even more annoying? Having to see that same pic twice on the thread.

You know what's MOST annoying? Seeing someone whine every time an image gets quoted, even when it's actually relevant to the post.

[Subotnik]

Ahhh...can't wait for mine to come. How big is the box?

Bigger than MP-01.

39x26x10cm

[KingNor]

all i can say is..

they sacraficed the look of the truck mode on prime (those windows and front end look mighty odd) so that prime would look as close to G1 as possible in bot mode.

I can easily see davids problem with sacraficeing SS's bot mode to accomodate a better jet mode. SS is just a knock off f15 in jet mode, in bot mode he IS Starscream. that is what makes him him. if people want a super realistic f15, maybe a transformer isn't where they should be looking.

no one is "wrong" for likeing the new sculpt, but i think david's gripe is easily legitimate and i easily empithize with him missing out on a dream figure so that a not-even-accurate f15 mode could be given priority over what he considered a beautiful starscream mold.

[Fit For Natalie]

I cancelled my order

Mainly because of some personal difficulties, but the QC problems worry me (I've been having very very bad luck with consumer goods lately), plus I think the colours will look VERY WEIRD in my room due to the light.

Edited October 6, 2006 by Fit For Natalie

[eugimon]

david doesn't have to like the sculpt, the toy, the color, the twin gun conformal fuel tanks... but this non stop spamming of this thread with page long essays on why he doesn't like it... and the little quips and barbs, it's all just trolling at this point.

Plenty of people like the new sculpt for legit reasons and many people think the new sculpt is more anime accurate in it's own right... since we can all agree 100% anime accuracy on the seeker bots is impossible without leaving bits off in bot mode.

just give it a rest, not every page of this thread needs to be taken over with the griping about the fuel tanks and color. AT LEAST, complain about some new detail and nit pick that to death.

[KingNor]

i have one:

i think his smirk is ambiguous at best.

[Baldrick]

Just call this the low vis version and people will scramble for it.

[Southpaw Samurai]

i have one:

i think his smirk is ambiguous at best.

Really don't know what to make of the smirk. Think my problem with it is the squinty eye. Yes, most smirking does make one eye smaller due to cheek movement and the image from the cartoon they were emulating DOES have the one eye squinting, but it looks off. The mouth makes it look devishly amused, but the eye almost makes him look like he's confused, in pain, or maybe just let loose a cyber-fart or something.

Other personal observations after finally getting some time to play with him last night (some have been mentioned, but I'll only say them again if I have something to add or it really stuck out:

- I swear I have 'what if Zartan was a Seeker?' toy. His coloring is very weird in that under certain incandescent lighting, he's decidely a dark blue/green while last night under my fluorescent desk lamp, he was definitely approaching Thundercracker-ish colors. As an amateur artist and photographer, I'm well aware of how much the lighting can affect perceived colors, but he just seems to vary greatly. Not a complaint (although I would prefer either a more 'real' grey or a more original toy/cartoon scheme), just a goofy observation

- Like how the cockpit converts so that the pilot is facing forward in either mode (although that gives credence to what someone said earlier about this being more a 'Kawamori designed F-15 mecha'). Just be careful... the good Doctor (who REALLY need some paint besides his labcoat) just likes to jump out of his seat while in this position and he can get wedged up in the workings making it a bit difficult to go back to jet mode until you work him back down.

- Stress marks can come easily. I think its coming down to both the gentleness of the owner and the stubborness of the parts. The first time I tried flipping the wings over onto the eventual back, one went as smoothly as one would suspect. The other I started to do the same thing and it was really stubborn and stress marks at the joint appeared immediately. In addiction, the second (more forward) joint of that double-joint actually had a hairline fracture when I got it up and over. Nothing really broken (the fracture is tiny and the part is now loose enough that no additional stress will probably befall it during transformations), but I think it's the first time I've ever had something break while transforming it for the first time... even going all the way back to my original Transformers as a kid. Even the dreaded VF1 and Alpha MPCs didn't). So, as someone said earlier, be very, VERY gentle and try to loosen up pieces a bit when first transforming it... even if a similar piece when smoothly.

- No real QC issues on mine otherwise.

- Like the tranformation process. Basically simple, but has a lot of intricate little parts that make most of the final robot form look clean. The infamous hip-pieces are the notable exception... look fine from the forward view, but hideous from the side unless you have a thing for that style of mecha design. Can't do much about them though (short removal), unless the stabilizers were designed to fold up, which would've make them weak in jet mode... perhaps in a 18" Ultra-Masterpiece Starscream someday... Have come to actually just letting armor hang vertically along legs... looks a little wrong front-on, but from most other angles it looks like some kind of armor to protect his hips and knee joints.

- Would take some retooling in order to ever see the conehead trio (or at least, cartoon accurate ones... the original toy images had the standard cone-facing rear look). Not that anyone is holding their breath for Ramjet, Thrust, and Dirge, but just an observation.... I suppose the part of the cone covering the radar could be removed and placed on their heads... would look like a dunce cap, but that's what it always looked like anyway...

- The mold will probably have a bunch of serious nerfing done to it if it somes stateside. If Prime's smokestacks posed a danger, I'd have to think what the points on Starscream's stabilizers would be considered, not to mention his classic null ray weapons. I wonder if we'll get the original 'short head' weapons that were the alternate missile heads on the original toy.

Overall, I'm happy with my Starscream (bought two from BBTS... mainly out of concern about transforming him too much). I'm still hoping for a more 'authentic' color scheme (at which point these guys would make great generic Seekers, even if they're not any of the default Seeker 'red shirts' from the cartoon).

Edited October 6, 2006 by Southpaw Samurai