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Robotech and HG license debates

Roy Focker

By Roy Focker
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bandit29 New Edwards Test Pilot

bandit29

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Posted (edited)
Robotech Zero is coming!!  :o

Nah it'll probably be a dubbed version of the original Macross series so they can milk that cow one more time lol ;) They gotta pay for that new series somehow ...

or more Macross superposables or changers.... hooray!!

Edited by dejr8bud
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Renato Galactic Diva

Renato

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Robotech Zero is coming!!   :o

Nah it'll probably be a dubbed version of the original Macross series so they can milk that cow one more time lol ;) They gotta pay for that new series somehow ...

or more Macross superposables or changers.... hooray!!

I've thought for a while now that they were hinting at having distribution rights to DYRL and releasing that soon. Don't know whether it'll happen or not, though.

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ewilen Alaska Base Survivor

ewilen

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From another thread...

Edit: Note, everyone agrees that HG has the copyright of SDF Macross in the states. HG's rights with respect to any other part of the Macross franchise are still a matter of controversy.

I thought copyright was up for debate, but distribution right wasn't.

Copyright is composed of multiple rights which can be divided between different parties; distribution right is one of them. An additional complication is that copyright of a derivative work is limited in the sense that it doesn't automatically include exclusive rights to derivatives of the derivative. Instead, the owner of the original work retains (by default) the right to further derivatives; if the owner of derivative1 uses it as a basis for derivative2, then the copyright of derivative2 is owned jointly by the owner of the original and the owner of derivative1.

In the case of SDF Macross, HG owns the copyright in the US but may or may not have exclusive US rights to the underlying intellectual properties. Many HG supporters think that HG does and that, therefore, BW can't legally distribute Macross stuff in the US without cutting a deal with HG. BW doesn't seem to believe it, because BW keeps trying to license stuff in the US, only to pull out when HG demands a cut from the licensee.

Once again I want to remind people that even if HG has the exclusive right to make & sell Macross derivatives in the US, this doesn't automatically give them the right to use whatever Macross products they can lay their hands on. E.g., they don't have the right to sell Macross Zero in the US without BW's permission. In fact, it's clear that even though HG claims to own the right to make DYRL-based toys, probably based on their interpretation of a contract with Tatsunoko, they acknowledge that they don't have the right to distribute DYRL itself.

Finally, the legal battle over Macross is based partly on copyright, partly on trademark. These are related but separate issues. HG may not own the US copyright to the Macross franchise as a whole, but if they own the trademark to "Macross", then that may be sufficient for them to prevent BW from selling Macross-titled products like M0 in the US.

(I realize this thread is unwieldy, but if you look back you can find these issues dealt with in greater detail.)

Edited by ewilen
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  • 3 weeks later...
Apollo Leader New Edwards Test Pilot

Apollo Leader

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Since this might be fodder for this thread, I just wanted to say right now that there is going to be at least one or more Macross related developments on the Harmony Gold end of things that might be announced VERY soon. I have absolutely no idea what they are, but just keep your eyes peeled.

Just wanted to update what I said a few weeks ago.

Regarding the Macross development I was talking about, I am not sure now if anything specific is going to be announced, but there is going to be some major Robotech related announcements coming very soon, some of which could effect Macross directly or indirectly. Sorry for being cryptic, but I have to cover my source.

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Dangaioh Global's Pipe Holder

Dangaioh

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Since this might be fodder for this thread, I just wanted to say right now that there is going to be at least one or more Macross related developments on the Harmony Gold end of things that might be announced VERY soon.  I have absolutely no idea what they are, but just keep your eyes peeled.

Just wanted to update what I said a few weeks ago.

Regarding the Macross development I was talking about, I am not sure now if anything specific is going to be announced, but there is going to be some major Robotech related announcements coming very soon, some of which could effect Macross directly or indirectly. Sorry for being cryptic, but I have to cover my source.

In saying so...., HG may ask Big West for licsence and rename the series to Macrotech? :blink: How about Robocross?

pls... don't hurt me...

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Pat Payne Bridge Bunny

Pat Payne

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Since this In saying so...., HG may ask Big West for licsence and rename the series to Macrotech? :blink: How about Robocross?

pls... don't hurt me...

Can't promise I'll try, but I'll try to try. :)

Ah, the heck with it... :p

post-26-1103020352.gif

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  • 1 month later...
Renato Galactic Diva

Renato

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On the Toho release of the english-dubbed laserdisc, I think I've found the Shogakukan logo. It's at the bottom right of the front and the bottom left of the back. The same logo is on the perfect edition laserdisc, at the bottom left of the front. Next to it is the Bandai Emotion logo.

If you look at the perfect edition DVD (see below), only the Emotion logo is visible.

This all backs up what you say, but I don't have any guesses better than yours.

It does support the notion that Shogakukan was involved in the Super Space Fortress Macross dub.

Also note the Big West logo on the back of SSFM. I really think that Tatsunoko didn't have much of anything to do with the dub. It was probably done by Shogakukan (which either had BW's approval or thought it did) and distributed by Toho. Then I would guess that Toho got the idea that either their cinematic distribution rights or their video distribution agreement allowed them to license translated versions of DYRL to Kiseki/Celebrity.

I have found a copy of the domestic (Japan) release of the Super Space Fortress dub VHS in a rental shop.

The UK copy I own by Kiseki (entitled "Clash of the Bionoids" -- yet uncut) credits Tatsunoko and Shougakukan at the end, I believe.

I will compare this one, (the packaging included). However, I assume it will be the same.

As for who actually produced the dub, I imagine Toho did it themselves using the same actors and studio that they used to produce the dubs for their Godzilla movies at the time. Compare them next time. They sound very alike. However, Shougakukan is also involved in Godzilla distribution rights, so.... <_<

Edited by Renato
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Noriko Takaya Pineapple Eater

Noriko Takaya

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I just noticed on Robotech's site they are advertising the new Appleseed movie. Seems strange they would do something like that when they blast every other thing not related to Robotech. They are saying that they are friends with Micott & Basara, who co-produced the film. Very odd, unless they are trying to get dibs on releasing it here in the States.

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rowen ARMD Deck Swabber

rowen

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I just noticed on Robotech's site they are advertising the new Appleseed movie. Seems strange they would do something like that when they blast every other thing not related to Robotech. They are saying that they are friends with Micott & Basara, who co-produced the film. Very odd, unless they are trying to get dibs on releasing it here in the States.

Geneon already has the rights.

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MEMO1DOMINION Destroid Armour Waxer

MEMO1DOMINION

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HMMMMMMM...

FROM ANIME NEWS NETWORK.COM

MOSPEADA

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encycloped...ime.php?id=2532

AND FOR APPLESEED

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encycloped...ime.php?id=2532

NAME THAT STAND OUT

Shinji Aramaki

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encycloped...ople.php?id=993

B))

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wrylac Destroid Armour Waxer

wrylac

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From Lebhead's thread,

JRock has heard a rumour that ADV is planning to buy out Harmony Gold next year. Anyone else heard this? If not, I guess we can dismiss that.

First time I've heard of this but perhaps they're speaking of buying RT and any anime related business from HG. They wouldn't want to take on all their other ventures.

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Pat Payne Bridge Bunny

Pat Payne

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From Lebhead's thread,

JRock has heard a rumour that ADV is planning to buy out Harmony Gold next year.  Anyone else heard this?  If not, I guess we can dismiss that.

First time I've heard of this but perhaps they're speaking of buying RT and any anime related business from HG. They wouldn't want to take on all their other ventures.

I agree with Wrylac on this one (watches for flying pigs :p ). HG is VERRRRRRRRRY wide-ranging, with real-estate and other businesses along with their TV/film syndication business which in itself is more than just an anime house.

BATT, it seems to be just a rumor. Although with all of the recent links between HG and ADV (Carl Macek taking up a job there and HG giving ADV first crack at Southern Cross and Mospeada) there may be some fire where this smoke's issuing from.

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uminoken Skull Leader's Lackey

uminoken

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Proof HG hasn't sunken their claws in fully...... Last week I was at the Smithsonian Air & Space Museum and among other aviation movie dvds (Top Gun, Final Countdown, ect) I found sets one and two of the Animego Macross dvds for $70 each. Good to know someone over there is on our side! :)

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Cyclone Skull Leader's Lackey

Cyclone

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Proof HG hasn't sunken their claws in fully...... Last week I was at the Smithsonian Air & Space Museum and among other aviation movie dvds (Top Gun, Final Countdown, ect) I found sets one and two of the Animego Macross dvds for $70 each. Good to know someone over there is on our side! :)

Even though Animego got the rights to release that from Harmony Gold?

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Pat Payne Bridge Bunny

Pat Payne

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NASM sells Anime? Cool!

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  • 4 weeks later...
MEMO1DOMINION Destroid Armour Waxer

MEMO1DOMINION

Posted
Posted

IT'S SOON!!!!!!!!!

TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF EVERYONES E-MAIL THREAD NOTIFICATION, I PUT THE NEWS HERE

PSA DOWNLOADABLE NOW...

http://www.theshadowchronicles.com/info.php?id=un

ALSO, THIS WAS A RUSHED JOB AND LAST MINUTE DOING...FOR THE U.N. PROMO..

NOT ACTUAL SC LOOK.

SO JUST A TASTE SO YOU GUYS CAN FILL THIS THREAD UP SOME MORE.

HEHEHE

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Roy Focker SMS Squadron Leader

Roy Focker

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Ariel/Marlene doesn't strike me as someone who would wear such an outfit that show off so much cleavage. The character seemed to have few problems with public nudity but that was in non sexual way. Now she's saying look at my cleavage in that outfit. Seems out of character. Is middle aged Lisa gonna do the same? I hear that Breetai got big Fabio-like man boobies. He gonna wear the same outfit?

Scott and Ariel have new voices. Scott sounds the guy on the Cowboy bebop dub and Ariel is voiced by that Star trek Fergrei loving bimbo. I'd almost prefer the original Robotech voices in a situation like this.

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HWR MKII Alaska Base Survivor

HWR MKII

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Notice though they didnt use anything from the macross portion of what they own :D . Thats a good thng.

Although this is all just a big way to advertise their crap to the masses and get it funded by someone else. HEY! HG make us a commercial and we will pay for the budget on it. You can sell your crap with it too.

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Arrowyn ARMD Deck Swabber

Arrowyn

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Weird.

Don't see a practical application for the spot, either. Who would they show it to? Would they get it?

Also strange that in RT, the UN Spacy probably only exitsts because they can't scratch the lettering out of the video frames and insert 'RDF' instead. Yet they're doing a UN spot.

Oh, and Steven Blum (Scott/Spike/7elevenguy, etc.) gets TONS of work. I hear that guy all over the place!

(oh, and did they make a new RT series? me=out of their loop. which is fine. )

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Pat Payne Bridge Bunny

Pat Payne

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That's a good question, Arrowyn. Of course, the UN can use all the PR help it can get these days here in the US as it's been plagued by a series of scandals that have blackened the organizations' eyes. But Robotech -- especially the later installments -- is pretty damn obscure these days. If I had to choose a TV show to do one of those spots, I would have picked a familiar property like Star Trek.

The fact that they seem to be going with some of the Cowboy Bebop Actors, as well as Chase Masterson and Mark Hamill in there is a halfway heartening revelation. Ain't still gonna watch it, but at least they've given Tony Oliver (who cannot hold a candle to the late Yasuo Yamada, BTW) the heave-ho.

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JB0 Super Dimension Member

JB0

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That's a good question, Arrowyn. Of course, the UN can use all the PR help it can get these days here in the US as it's been plagued by a series of scandals that have blackened the organizations' eyes. But Robotech -- especially the later installments -- is pretty damn obscure these days. If I had to choose a TV show to do one of those spots, I would have picked a familiar property like Star Trek.

I seem to recall they DID get Enterprise to plug them.

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Pat Payne Bridge Bunny

Pat Payne

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They did? It'd make sense...

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  • 2 months later...
Pat Payne Bridge Bunny

Pat Payne

Posted
Posted (edited)

Sorry to re-ignite the embers of this thread, but There was some other news that came about while MW was down. Everyone's probably heard that TAKARA (the house of Transformers) has bought up a super-majority stake (somewhere in the neighborhood of 80%) in the shares of Tatsunoko Pro (If I have to gloss THAT one...). TAKARA, therefore, flat-out OWNS Tatsunoko.

I'm wondering about the effect of this buyout on the ongoing BW-SN/HG-Tat lawsuit extravaganza. TAKARA said that they bought out Tat precisely to get a hold of their massive back catalogue of anime properties (for merchandising purposes). It'd be interesting to see if they consider Macross in that catalogue, and will fight for it. I guess the question hinges on one condition that I can see:

Would the merchandising and other revenue they could get from Macross outweigh the costs of continuing the lawsuit? (Apparently, Tatsunoko's sales were declining across the board, and Tatsunoko has vowed to raise sales from JPY 500,000,000 to JPY 6,000,000,000 in the next three years.) And as Macross has been declining in Japan for a while (sad but true...unfortunately, Hikaru, Isamu and *sigh* Basara can't compete with Amuro, Kamille and Heero) would TAKARA be inclined to cut its losses and revert the property to BW?

If it does, it could change the whole playing field. With Tatsunoko no longer propping HG up, BW may finally be able to put legal pressure on them to rectify the situation vis-a-vis Macross (the other two shows wouldn;t be affected, IIRC -- they are both purely Tatsunoko productions.) If so, this could finally be the "checkmate" announcement we've been waiting for. But it's iffy, and only would come IF, and only if, TAKARA does decide to settle or drop the suit outright.

If it doesn't, Does this mean TAKARA might get into the business of making Macross toys? Perhaps a Jetfire? :p

Edited by Pat Payne
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