dreamweaver13

This doesn't really change any of the previous discussions on this topic, but just want to point this out after watching ep 12 again (fastest delivery). the display in Luca's laptop shows a diagram of the fold path from Frontier to Gallia IV. Fold faults are symbolized by purple blocks on the monitor, and when the path crossed those purple blocks, "1 day" was written on the monitor, corresponding to that purple block. Translated as, when the fold path crossed that particular fold fault, one day was added to the fold travel (i presume we're talking about the time "outside" of the fold).

hehe. now that sure doesn't sound like sheryl. So sheryl is XP. Ranka ("oneesan, alto, will this be ok?") is Vista. sure, she's the new thing, but is she necessarily better?

Speaking of Luca, what's with the sudden change in his attitude? When Nanase was asking him why alto was pissed off, he said "maybe he's having a period." (in the first sub i saw, it was read as "maybe he's having a blue flag day"). Actually the statement itself is so un-luca like. but he also said it while facing away, and he looked quite serious (not a hint of making a joke). More like he was taking a jab at alto. is this because he hasn't told nanase his feelings? he's pissed off at someone? he's grown tired of alto's snobbish behavior? Or is this the real "evil" luca finally coming out?

ok, now I have no idea where you're coming from anymore. This all started because you whined about the Macross franchise not continuing the story of the ultimate love triangle Hikaru Misa and Minmei (even making a comment later on about how it's still the best one ever). You were so desperate to continue this love triangle/story that you even sugested that the Robotech people should take a crack at it (oh, the horror! ) And now you're razzing the macross franchise for putting a love triangle in each of its stories? Make up your mind. Look, 29 posts down the line, and your reviews of Macross Plus and Macross 7 have all been exclusively about their respective love triangles. Nothing about anything else, the mecha, the story, the songs, nothing. you have this fixation of evaluating the worth of each installation based solely on the way it compares to the original love triangle. If that's your thing, then that's your thing. But I don't understand you all of a sudden turning your logic 180deg around and demanding that Macross stop with these love triangles. is this just to win an argument? just doesn't make sense. ummm... both the series and DYRL ended with Hikaru and Misa hooking up, and Minmei acknowledging the two's relationship. you even specified it: closing the photo album on the story. The "mission to colonize space", as you put it, was a mere cliffnote. it's not even a part of the series or the movie. it's more like an epilogue at the end of those american movies that you speak of. "X and Y lived happily ever after going into space so on and so forth...". It's not a significant plot point in the series and the movie. Once again, i think you're confusing RT and Macross in the sense that it's only in RT where that "mission to colonize space" was given so much significance. I don't know... you might just be projecting a robotech concept into the Macross universe. Actually, right now, I'm grateful because you seem like the perfect sample of what I was talking about in the "Megaroad" thread I started.

the most iconic thing about robocop is that he's super slow, bulky and moves like Mr.Roboto. How do you upgrade that using today's technology? if you just repeat his look and capabilities, then why did you make a remake in the first place? on the other hand, if you speed him up and make him leaner (to match the capabilities of today's technology), he wouldn't be robocop, he would be an anime character (bubblegum crisis anyone?). So where will they go with this, i wonder?

You know what, that's a good way to know who the macross fans are. throw a great big party, and serve steak and pineapple salad as the special courses. watch the crowds eat them all up... .. the macross fans will be on the other side of the room, sticking to the tuna courses.

Wh-whaat? what did i say?

This might be another case of Frontier playing with our SDFM background, much like it did with Miss Macross and the WTF-1. Actually, given the last few episodes, ozma has slightly increased his exposure in the series, including some dramatic moments with Ranka before the "experiment", and his death now would kinda hurt (as opposed to a few episodes back where he was almost left out of the picture). so death flags may be up, but i don't discount the possibility that SK is throwing us for another loop.

But then if Miku's co-survivor is her best friend, almost same age, kinda looks like her but sings very well.... oh my, here we go again...

have to re-watch to notice, but does sheryl use this particular "stylish"pen in the series? particualrly, is it the one she uses on the giant panties, i wonder. and that limp celphone that's popular on frontier, ranka's phone is one of them, right?

22 posts in, and no mention? fine, i'll say it: HG!

Exactly.

It would be really nice if the next generation of macross fans would end up having the same reverence for Alto, Sheryl and Ranka as we did the original big 3 of the Macross universe. means that the franchise would live on, and would not necessarily end with us old-school macross fans. Just don't have the Frontier just suddenly disappearing at the end of the series, though! hehe. Redwolf, I am already of the position that it would be better to leave the fate of the Megaroad a mystery, but your idea ain't bad! they don't even have to look for the three anymore, but just focus on Miku.

formulaic? Ran out of ideas? um... if they did, they would just have used the same characters all over again, which they had every legal right to do. which is basically what robotech tried to do with its sentinels. you're confusing macross for your robotech. who says the macross 7, plus or anything other than that was meant to be a sequel to SDFM? I, for one, have much respect for a franchise who did not decide to rest on its laurels and just use the same characters over and over again in the same setting until the audience got tired of them. props to the franchise for trying out new threats, storylines and characters with each installment. and what, pray tell, is the unanswered question left at the end of SDFM? I mean, what more closure do you need? don't get me wrong. i love my Triangler as much as the next guy, but i wouldn't judge other independent macross series on the basis of whether or not it continued the luvy-duv story of Hikaru Misa and Minmei.

If you call Sheryl a big 17, what does that make nanase?

Exactly as i pictured it.

that's also what i thought (and it sounds more logical), but they're saying that the bat-pod's wheels come from the Tumbler's two front wheels, so i'm kinda confused now.

um, I doubt that they had the american audience primarily in mind when they created macross frontier... so ranka is a petite 16 year old. it happens.

dammit, i love this analogy.

well, that's basically what President Glass said when their ranka experiment was succesful. "we will/can win". and when i made that connection, i shuddered.

oh yeah, forgot about him. yeah as far as "villains" go, i hate him the most.

hehe, now now, don't go blaming your allegiance shift on lack of fanart.

Yes, this is indeed an old issue. Well, to be more precise, the question of what ultimately happened to the original Triangler - Hikaru, Misa and Minmei - is the old issue. This branched out to other debates… reveal the story vs. keep it an eternal mystery. dead vs. just missing. catastrophic macross universe event vs. plain accident. stay missing vs. come back in a future macross series. Old debates, for sure, and no answers in sight. But what really bakes my noggin is... why? What is with this obsession with learning about the eventual fate of the original Triangler? Why do we jump at the slightest possibility that their fates will be revealed? Why this blatant refusal (for some) to accept that they are simply missing somewhere, never to be seen from or heard again? I got myself thinking on this question when I got my brother to watch Macross Frontier for the first time. First of all, he's no macross fan. His only true exposure to the franchise was with Macross Plus (and we all know how that can stand completely on its own). But he was able to see some episodes of SDFM while I was watching. He knows who Hikaru, Misa and Minmei are. He knows about how singing saved the day. In one of my geek moments, I might have mentioned to him that the trio went off into space one final time after the series before disappearing forever. But that's it. He never watched SDFM in its entirety. He didn't watch DYRL. In sum, he's not a macross fan, but he has a general idea of what it was all about. And 1 episode into MacF, when he first saw the vajra, his first comment was, hey maybe that's what attacked the three. Maybe that's why they disappeared. 5 episodes in, he's asking me for any hint if those three will make a cameo somewhere along the line. 7 episodes in, he's already predicting that they will. If a guy not that much into macross can get this hung up over those three particular characters, what hope do all the rest of us have?? So basically, just what is it about those three?? It's not like their story ended with a cliffhanger. By the end of SDFM (or DYRL) we know for sure who Hikaru chose. And no beating the bush about it this time. He basically let go of minmei, and told her to her face that he's gonna be with Misa. Minmei didn't sulk, or swear revenge, or swear that he'll get him back one of these days; she walked away (albeit with some sadness and reluctance, sure). Hikaru didn't sound confused or regretful when he chose Misa (especially in DYRL). Misa didn't sound paranoid or unsure of her relationship. If you take into consideration anime ending standards, the endings of SDFM and DYRL closed the book on the story better than any I've seen. You can't write a new chapter to that, there's no open question. You want closure from an anime series, you watch SDFM or DYRL. It's no evangelion, that's for sure. So despite that, why can't we let them go? Why do these three characters live on to this day, despite their story being told? My theories: 1. Kawamori himself. The hory froating head might very well have created this obsession himself. Let's face it, if we knew nothing else about the Triangler other than what we saw in SDFM/DYRL, I don’t think we'd be hung up over them this much. We'd just surmise that they all lived happily ever after, and that Minmei would still be the ultimate idol in the galaxy. We'd be perfectly satisfied seeing a story centered around Max & Miriya without clamoring for more. We'd enjoy the other series without praying for a surprise appearance. But SK didn't let it go at that. He came up with Flashback2012, where he showed Hikaru, Misa and Minmei all in the same ship all over again. And then later on, he declared that they disappeared near the center of the galaxy. This was never animated, just a by-line, an established fact in the time-line. If you didn't pay attention, you wouldn't even know about it. But when that was officially placed in the timeline, we have SK declaring that he would never touch on those 3 characters again. The perfect ingredients for the ultimate everlasting mystery: great characters, closure on the story, a sudden unexplained event, and... silence. SK has ensured that those 3 beloved characters will live forever in the minds of macross fans. They will not age. We will not remember them with white hair, all-aged. We will always remember them the way they looked in SDFM/DYRL/Flashback. If anything, SK showed the greatest respect for these 3 characters by putting them in stasis forever. Ok, if you see it this way, you'll realize that it's just right as rain. If you're a fan of the three, you'd love that they're immortal in the macross universe. Sure there's a desire to know what actually happened, but their status as the "great mystery" should outweigh that itch. Some of us already feel this way. But then, why do most of us still want a continuation to their story? Why this subtle (sometimes almost unconscious) disappointment whenever a new macross series does not give the explanation of what happened to them? Why is it whenever you hear their names, you subconsciously wish that the next line would be, "according to the search and rescue fleet, they...." Which goes to my second theory: 2. The influence of Robotech. I hate to put the word "influence" and "robotech" in the same sentence ( ), but I can't deny it exists in some form. (this applies only to those who watched RT first, or watched it later to help stem their macross fix). Sure, RT changed the Macross concepts considerably, but its biggest sin (with respect to this topic) is that it attempted to continue the story by adding two other anime series to the mix. In so doing, it created the conception that the story of the three wasn't finished. Particularly, that Hikaru (Rick) and Misa (Lisa) were sent to space again to do something of sheer importance to the human race. And Minmei came along for the ride, of course. And later on, Hikaru (that's Admiral Hunter to you!) and Misa come back to earth to bring closure to this over-extended drama. The influence goes even deeper if you were also drawn into the McKinney books and the short-lived Sentinels animated series. There, the viewers definitely get the impression that all is not over between those three. Hikaru is still a confused dolt. Misa is still insecure. Minmei still refuses to let his former boytoy go. Thus, the drama continues. But that's RT. Where do macross fans come in? Well, a percentage of Mac fans may have seen RT first, and may already have been deep into the RT mythos before they realize the mindfrack that was done on them. So when they formally shifted to the Macross universe, they might have carried along that perception that something is still left untold about the story of Hikaru, Misa and Minmei. Or if they started with Macross, then watched RT, they could have gotten the same impression inadvertently. Carry that perception of an "unfinished love triangle" into a Macross universe where those three same people disappeared in very mysterious circumstances, then BOOM! that obsession about the Triangler is multiplied many times over. Don't know if this theory is anywhere near true. We'd have to compare people who saw RT and those who didn't see RT. Well, if we take VFTF1 as a sample (sorry dude)... maybe. He claims he never saw RT, and he does find Mac7 as perfect, without any hint of regret that it doesn't resolve the mystery behind the three. (But then again, VFTF1 does have the tendency to misspell Misa as Misa Hayes… ). 3. well, as a final one, there's always the catch-all explanation: cultural differences. Being a long-time anime follower, I know that in anime, endings are usually open-ended, or subject to many interpretations. And more often than not, those endings remain just like that. And anime fans are not surprised by such endings anymore (endings with real closure are actually more surprising), and the Japanese are probably used to it (correct me if I'm wrong on this one). But to someone who's not used to anime, an open ended ending just does not sit well. Close the book, give me a proper ending. And don't spoil that proper ending by saying that they disappeared in space later on. Oh well, these are all random thoughts. Might be silly, might ring true. Any thoughts? Violent reactions? Refusal to be believe that our minds have been played with? My actual opinion is probably the simplest: SK/Big West just happened to create three perfectly wonderful characters, and created one of the more believable and relatable love triangles in fiction, and I just want them to live on. It's just that good... so good, in fact, that even a causual fan with little Macross background would ask... "so what happened to Hikaru, Misa and Minmei?" EDIT: the thread title is actually: "The Megaroad crew and the original "Triangler"- why the hang-up?", (psychological? closure? great characters refusing to die?). Guess it didn't fit.

your avatar kawaiiii!!!

*sigh* i wonder when the DVD will come out.