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Super Macross Mecha Fun Time Discussion Thread!
sketchley replied to Valkyrie Driver's topic in Movies and TV Series
The VA-3M was equipped with torpedoes in the underwater level set on Eden 3 in VF-X2. So, it's not quite 'they don't exist', and more like 'we haven't been shown them'. -
To put it into context: the M7 Fleet's decision to adopt the VF-19 occurred while that series was being produced. The VF-171 wasn't introduced (in the real world) until Frontier, and Kawamori-san decided that it, not the VF-19, became the successor to the VF-11 in-universe. It's unclear if that decision was retroactively applied to the M7 fleet, or not. So, both you (Bolt) and RedWolf are correct. It's all as clear as mud. However, the only things to add clarity is that the 117th Research Fleet was a relatively new-ish fleet and most likely went with the best VF they could get their hands on when they launched in 2046 (the VF-171). The M7 Fleet had a massive investment in the VF-11. At the time of the M7 series (2047), they were depicted as just starting to consider a successor to it. The Varota War may have sped things up, but no matter what they ended up using (VF-19 or VF-171), it was still a dozen or so years before most of the VF-11's were replaced. Come to think of it, it's arguable that mid-way through the VF-11's replacement, they opted to go with the VF-25, or even the VF-31 (pending how far along in the replacement process they were, and the [material] costs of producing those more advanced VFs). I was also going to mention something about factory retooling costs, but that doesn't ever seem to be an issue in Macross... 🤷♂️
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The original ARMD in SDFM were intended to dock with the SDF-1. So, one could infer that that is the genesis of the 'warship docking with bigger ship' idea. In some ways, the Northampton is the exception, as it's the only one that's not a carrier-style vessel.
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Super Macross Mecha Fun Time Discussion Thread!
sketchley replied to Valkyrie Driver's topic in Movies and TV Series
Part of the "fun" with Japanese is 'reading the air'.* In different words, many things in Japanese are implied and must be inferred (not said explicitly/must be understood from context). English, on the other hand, is the opposite. So, if the person preparing the subtitles is not paying attention to 'the air' in a scene or series, the translation start missing things. (And machine translation is notorious for this.) The other complication, is that Macross Delta appears to be one of those series where some plot details were included in other media, for example manga. So, even if those subtitles you are referring to are accurate, they're missing part of the full picture. if I'm not mistaken, Seto is also providing an amalgamation of the event from various sources, too. * https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20200129-what-is-reading-the-air-in-japan -
Fixed!
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That is one way of interpreting it. The other is as Kawamori-san himself describes Macross: what we are seeing are shows (etc.) made in-universe about historical events (from their perspective). So, we end up with one group of producers painting the Protoculture as 'mundane', and another group painting them as 'magical'. The truth is both somewhere in between, and something else entirely. As I like Pengbuzz's suggestion so much, my personal view is 'all of the above'.
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That's backed up in SDFM with Hikaru jumping into and piloting a Tomahawk in one of the latter episodes. In Macross the First, Max first appears as a Tomahawk pilot, and later graduates to VF pilot. However, he is probably the exception to the rule.
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1/72 F203 Dragon II Kit Proposal --Moscato Hobby
sketchley replied to captain america's topic in Model kits
In the designer's defence: it was a throw-away mecha designed for a few shots. Nevertheless, it has 2D thrust vectoring. So, it probably doesn't rely on wing flaps (I suspect those 'flaps' are more akin to lines that describe the wing shape then flaps per se). That said, I say add mounting pylons for those missiles—along with an inner hardpoint: at the very least the fighter should have the option for drop tanks! -
1/72 F203 Dragon II Kit Proposal --Moscato Hobby
sketchley replied to captain america's topic in Model kits
From Macross Chronicle: The Macross Compendium goes even further: -
This Lego Stargate Command Model showed up a couple of weeks ago on Gateworld: https://www.gateworld.net/news/2022/04/this-lego-stargate-command-model-looks-amazing/ It just might be the perfect companion set for that pyramid.
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There's this from one official source: There's nothing in the descriptions of the 'Bis' in various publications that I've read that says that it can't transform to Battroid. The only (major) differences is that in the Bis model, claws have been added to the arms*, and it is also equipped with Energy Conversion Armour and a Pinpoint Barrier. Also, it appears that the AI equipped one seen in Macross Plus Game Edition was a one-off unmanned version for testing. Apparently Temujin used a Neo-Guraji in the Macross Frontier Novelization, as well. * more like restored as per the original Variable Guraji specs, but one translates based on the original text.
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Well there's that... However, I take it with a grain of salt, as we know the Varota Armed Forces are composed mostly of human-produced equipment modified after the Protodevilun captured it. So, that quote is one way of explaining how the Protodevilun acquired the VF-14 (& etc.) that were used to produce the Fz-109 (& etc.)
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I don't believe anything was said one way or the other. The Variable Guraji on the other hand... I think "immigration" planets is just an alternative translation of "emigrant" planets. It's just the way that that Japanese term works—it's both "emigrant" and "immigrant" at the same time as it is "emigrate" and "immigrate". 移民惑星 My preference is on "emigrate" as the term is generally used to describe those big ships that depart with tons of people on it, with a final destination that is undetermined at the time of launch. As for the frontier in "frontier immigration planets", that could also be translated as "remote". So, those would be planets far from anywhere else (or any regions of space that would be considered "cosmopolitan"). What that means in-universe is left nebulous. It could be a planet in a remote sector that is just barely explored, let alone 'colonized'; or it could be in an unpopulated pocket in a developed sector.
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If memory serves, in universe he was 'tolerated' because he got the job done (I think there was a bit of a nuance of he was willing to fight battles that other soldiers weren't). On the production side (out of universe), his character was added for the unpredictability. Buritai, etc. all make good opponents, but they tend to think up and act out long-term plans, which doesn't necessarily make for good TV.
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If you're thinking of the damaged one that's been floating in space for ages and the VF pilot just plucks it's big gun and uses it to shoot the enemy, then that would be Frontier. Even if it's not what you're thinking of, that scene speaks volumes about the Zentradi mecha. As for the durability of Zentradi weapons, IIRC, in the section in the doujinshi on the Zentradi ships that mentions human-made guns (etc.) replacing Zentradi guns (etc.), they say something along the lines that while the performance has increased, the maintenance requirements have also increased drastically. I think one analogy is that Zentradi equipment is like the cheap cars pumped out of factories with poor tuning that one can literally drive into the ground and it keeps puttering along, and the human stuff is like a finely-tuned race car that will stop working if something small goes out of alignment. If memory serves, I read somewhere that the revised/modified Rigado that appear in Macross Delta were partially revised to increase ergonomics. E.g. replacing the 'chin' guns with a single under-slung machinegun-like turret system most likely vastly increased the leg room. I'm sure survivability was also improved—at the very least, an improved version of Energy Conversion Armour!
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You should definitely weather the base! There's not enough contrast with the more-or-less 'factory fresh' bullet (or do you have plans to weather that, too?) Can't say one way or the other about painting the base, though.
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Never saw the original in 3D. The only thing it has going for it is that it recaptures some of that James Cameron magic from his earlier films—Aliens, Terminator, and so on. Is Dir. Cameron going to be using the footage he shot at the bottom of the Mariana Trench in Avatar 2, or was that only ever a rumour?
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I was going to mention something about size in my post above, but I realized that Miria's Gunship isn't exactly to scale either (not shrunk as much, but scaled down nonetheless). I'm not sure if those "Meltrandi" transports are shrunk down versions made after humans took control of a Factory Satellite, or just size-reduced due to the limits of the game itself (what I think is the reason behind the Miria's Ship's scaling). I'm not sure what we can attribute to the differing visual design of the Meltran ships in DYRL. On the one hand, they look closer to the human ships. On the other hand, the Meltrans are described as being physically different (or having a different physiological make up) than the Zentrans. For starters, the Meltrans (in DYRL) use fibre-optics in place of their nervous system—to the extent that some sources indicate that they're not so much 'piloting' their mecha as 'plugged into' their mecha.* So it makes sense that they would look less 'biological' and more 'technological'. * The info on that is a big vague. My guess is that it was one of those things that was attempting to describe their enhanced reflexes, but wasn't thought out very well at the time—probably because the concepts weren't developed in the real world yet (E.g. William Gibson's Neruomancer was published in the same year DYRL was released, and The Matrix was still a decade-and-a-half away).
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Those Meltran ships... on the one hand we have DYRL which was purportedly filmed 'in-universe' using Unified Forces ships (etc.) as stand-ins for the real thing (E.g. the Beginhill Training Ship being dressed up with holograms as the Bodolza Mobile Fortress). Then we got M7 with a Meltran fleet using those ships. On top of that we have VF-X2 using one class of those Zentradi ships as a (human? Unified Forces?) transport ship, and other groups using Miria's gunship as... well, like how it was portrayed in DYRL. It's a real headache to sort out. The only guidance we have is from Kawamori-san himself: "SDFM story, DYRL designs." Officially? "Many" for the mecha. No such stats (if 'many' even counts) for the crew. The production staff never got around to (or didn't even bother to) fill in those stats. Unofficially, there are many sources, but your mileage varies. Fanky's doujinshi "Ships of the Galaxy #3: Zentradi Fleet"* is arguably the most complete and has what you're looking for, but some other parts of their publication are dubious at best. * http://www.cwo.zaq.ne.jp/bface700/16sum/gs03.html
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VFMF: VF-1 Valkyrie states that it (ARMD-9) and ARMD-10 (Haruna) departed in Aug. 2012 with a Megaroad class. As the Macross Compendium* states that Megaroad 01 departed in Sep. 2012, and Megaroads 02 and 03 were in 2014, it's fairly safe to infer that those 2 ARMDs went with Megaroad 01. * https://macross.anime.net/wiki/Megaroad_class
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It sounds like it might be an internal DNS error. Like the mistake is pointing at the CSS file and not the proper page that is supposed to render and display the code. The problem is that it sometimes takes figuratively forever to update DNS errors even if the fix was created within hours (or even minutes) after an error first appears.
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In some ways it's like the Macross universe's version of the USAF's F-16 vs YF-17 "competition"—with the F-16 being adopted as-is, and the YF-17 being reworked into the F-18 and being adopted by the USN, etc.—just replace the F-16 with the VF-11, and the YF-17/F-18 with the VF-14. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_YF-17
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Regarding the VF-14, Macross Chronicle sheds some light on that: http://sdfyodogawa.mywebcommunity.org/MCRmechanic/OTHERun04AVF-14Vampire.php * main fighter generally means the main fighter of the Unified Forces, not the 'main' aircraft used by a local government. As for the uniforms, the Variable Fighter pilots in the M7 fleet use something different from what the central Unified Forces uses. Staff Officer Gunther is from the Unified Forces Headquarters—presumably the unit that he was attached to when he (and they) disturbed the Protodevilun during their investigation of the forth planet in the Varota system. So that may just be down to different branches/sections of the Unified Forces, and/or that each Emigrant Fleet is allowed to choose which uniform for the personnel under its jurisdiction. * the real reason is ease of differentiation in the viewer. If both the protagonists and antagonists are all wearing the same uniforms and flying the same Valkyries, it would confusing to the point of baffling. Kawamori-san (and Studio Nue in general) are really big on having visually distinct designs for rival forces (even down to differing silhouettes), and this is a good example of that. The more extreme example is Kawamori-san replacing the VF-19 with the VF-171 in Macross Frontier because the VF-19 looked too similar to the VF-25! Anyhow, one thing to keep in mind is that the Varohta Forces that we saw in M7 have equipment that the Protodevilun modified and 'enhanced'. The shapes of the real things are moderately to greatly different.
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Short answer: yes. Not only do all the escort ships (both military and living support) have to be built, they also have to be outfitted, and then crewed. During the process, several hundred thousand citizens (aka emigrants) also have to be settled into their new city. If memory serves, the SDFN class were produced during the initial years of the program. Their main mission was to spread humanity out in the galaxy—just in case the Zentradi came back to finish glassing the Earth. The official materials state that they were the initial pathfinders (as you mentioned) for travel routes outbound from Earth. It's not directly stated, but given the other details we know, it's fairly safe to say that they were also involved in the short range emigrant fleets (one may have even discovered Planet Eden). At some time after the introduction of the Megaroad class, the SDFN class was discontinued. From what we can glean from Macross Frontier, some (perhaps all) were retired from the emigrant mission, and turned into the flagships of smaller research fleets, etc. Sadly, this is dabbling in the era that even Japanese Macross fans lament as they refer to the "great blank period". There just aren't that many details about it.
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In the Frontier context: they introduced the Super Fold Drive, which purportedly surpassed Fold Faults and reduced travel times to 1/10. So, it's arguable that one could travel back to Earth in 1 year. Incidentally, Kawamori-san described the Macross setting (for Macross Frontier) as "the Great Age of Exploration with e-mail". Hopefully that helps inform on not only the distances and travel times involved, but what he was shooting for with the Galaxy Network and the relatively concurrent dissemination of information (songs, technology, etc.) throughout the galaxy.
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