1/1 LowViz Lurker

I think if enough people pressure them about making it look and feel like the robotech cartoon maybe they'll buckle under pressure? The thing with transformers though is I didn't mind that the live action movie took some liberties in some areas. For example the changing size of the characters - something I didn't like even as a kid in the 80s. The rest I agree with: they made them too complex and busy where they could have shown the internal mechanics of the robots in a scene of one of their buddies being heavily battle-damaged. A bit like how you get to see the terminator skeleton after the fleshy bits have been rotted away or c3p0 naked body in prequel trilogy when he has no covers. But with robotech, it's just not as magical apart from the fuel source of the mecha. (protoculture) So I can see people getting pissed off that they can't have the design of the original which doesn't need changing. Maybe just modernised? If it turns out that the transformation is shellformer stuff I will be very disappointed.

The trick is to leave them in fighter mode so people don't know they are actually from a robot show. But I do see your point. Maybe what might happen is there will be a cartoon based on the live action movie called Robotech: Animated (all the animation is done by japanese because anime is becoming more mainstream and popular in the west ) and then they'll say: Hey I watch that cartoon on saturdays with my kids! I love the robots in that. Let me transform it, pretty please! Where did you buy it? Of course HG will profit, so whatever happiness there is having a alpha and tread combo at decent mass-produced toy price; which allows you to buy multiples, is all cancelled out by having to help the bad guys. HG has control of mospeada and japan is too in love with gundam to care. So this is our last resort. I wonder how much input HG will have, and how much control they will be given on the mecha design? Not all hollywood movies want to rape your childhood or change stuff for the sake of change. 300 for example, tried to make the movie look panel to panel, like the comic and it went ok. (despite some things added that were'nt in it) The last I heard of the he-man movie was that they were going to make that look like 300. So that movie might have started a trend to making movies be close to the source material where it can.

When I say the "look", I mean the body proportions not the dark look of the series. Of course that dark, moody imagery is part of what made it look great. Just that if they had used x-men style realistic figures with the dark approach (set at nighttime when batman fights crime) I would have liked it even more than the exaggerated body proportions of big square jaw, wide chest, skinny lowerbody. You know it's a bit like how people whine in the macross toy forum about the toynami 1/100 vf-1 toys having the oversized shoulders. I'm pretty sure one of the earliest comments about the TFA toon before it actually started and people only had a picture of the characters to go by was that: "geez...why do they have to make them look all deformed like that?" That's not to say that having them be expressive is bad or anything, just that NOT having them be stylised like that isn't going to suddenly make Transformers animated suck in any way. (because other cartoons like 90s spiderman or x-men didn't suffer in any way without being that way, right?) But the big head of spiderman in spectacular spiderman, and the square jaws of characters in TFA is distracting to me. It just is. Not that there is anything wrong with it....

I had no problem with the aliens but I can see why people were worried. Indiana jones is going to suffer what the castlevania games may suffer as it gets closer to modern times. The magic/wonder/mystery will have to make way for scientific things that clash with the feel of the originals. (you see dracula only appears every 100 years in that universe so each time a new game is made it gets closer to present day/future) The similarity is that both indiana jones and the belmont family use whips, and both seem better in times where 'people were innocent' and everything was mysterious and unclear. But seriously it's just entertainment and people get old and change. Just don't see the movie if the changes are so bad it will rape your childhood. Nobody complained that the latest james bond movie was more gritty than we are more used to from bond movies. "Aliens" was a better movie than Alien for making the aliens move more convincingly and adding more to the original idea by giving us a queen who laid eggs which wasn't in the original. Prequel trilogy star wars upped the light saber duels to a much-faster and more intense pace to make them more enjoyable to watch. Terminator 2 changed what was once a very dark movie (in the original terminator) set at nighttime in areas with very poor light and lots of shadowy areas for silent assasins to sneak stealthily and attack suddenly, ...into something set in the daytime where you could cleary see the badguy and which wasn't nearly as scary and horrific (digusting as in a robot covered in rotting flesh in the first movie) but had more loud action scenes, better stunts, special/visual fx and humour. So yeah although this latest indy won't ever live up to the standard of the originals, not all changes/additions to old fave movie franchises turn out bad just because they don't keep the tone/feel of the originals. What they might lose in one thing they can gain in something else when they add something new on top of them to make the franchise more rich as a whole. (like the focus on magic/spiritua in the macross universe in macross 7 for example despite not having any mention of spiritua in the original. Just like there was no mention of queen aliens in the original alien movie.) I'm just thinking that some people might see the change as a complement to the franchise that adds to it. Not a replacement for what was already put there or done before well. For instance star wars prequel trilogy's more kiddy friendly tone is similar to the kiddy friendly tone of Fellowship of the ring where it was all about hobbits and friendship and the bond between different races. As the second movie rolled on that friendship broke down, focused on humans' pride and started to get darker. By the third movie it got even darker and friends were capable of actually murdering each other possessed by evil. The changes in tone (from light to dark) may be there to reflect the growing seriousness of the the characters as they change, go through trials, and grow from those experiences; eventually being permanently altered by those events they just experienced. Just as the creators of the works themselves change and grow old and whose priorities/ideals shift. Someone mentioned that when you become a father that means you are more responsible and more willing to censor things. The upside is that it might paint a more realistic picture of a rogue personality: that even anti-heroes are shown to have limits to what is acceptable by their personal code of conduct and can become more likeable when vulnerability is shown. Lots of people complained in the latest GTA game for example that the main character isn't really likable at all for so easily killing people despite it seeming that he is against it. (not enough internal conflict shown to be convincing?) Audiences' attitudes might have matured over time and they want some depth. Just as you might get angry that the size of hulks body is a little too big, or that the force isn't magical sounding enough, another person might want a more complex character who can change, grow up, or even question themselves like a real person, having gone through experiences that have changed them. Not have the characters be stuck the same each movie or doing the same thing over again. Sequels have to provide something new that hasn't been seen before, building upon what was provided in the previous movie. At the end of the day its entertainment and it's a money-making machine more than art. Fans are outnumbered by the masses, and it's possible to still make a movie that is both good and different from what came before whilst also still appealing to non-fans of the franchise. (an example is how transformers offended the fanbase of transformer fans but was surprisingly easy to watch for anyone not familiar with transformers. Contrast this to the TF animated movie which is aimed squarely at children who already know the characters but would be boring for a parent to watch who knows nothing about the characters and can't appreciate it because it requires you to be familiar with the tv series. Fans vs masses. It's not so much that one is more important than another but that trying to appeal to all is the goal so that more people see it. So while Terminator is loved by the genre fan and is the original dark 80s cyberpunk vision, Terminator 2 is loved by the general movie watcher and shows a brighter and more optimistic and more realistic view of machines. That is that they are not just killing machines, but able to understand human emotion when given the chance. The sequel is more happy and less depressing than the first movie, adding a counterpoint to the original's view that the future is doomed with high technology and we must fear it only. Mass audience will like that better but it goes against the grain of the original which says technology can't be trusted and is a much darker more depressing tone but also more black and white. No room for greys like the sequel which is more sophisticated.)

Well if the movie actually does suck it won't mean the end of the world would it? Macross will still continue to exist as it always had. So I never understood this idea that if it sucks it will rape my childhood when you guys didn't even care about robotech anyway. Don't you want to see a alpha/legios toy? And for all the hate for the TF LA movie I actually didn't think it was bad for a mainstream audience who isn't necessarily attached to the cartoon characters. Even when I was a kid I was never that big a fan of transformers enough to think it was going to be the end of the world if the movie actually sucked. later batman movies started to get worse, but look at what happened later: they rebooted it with batman begins. It's not going to be the end of the world people. Sometimes it works: Battlestar galactica tv series, transformers animated, 90 Batman movie, rambo 4 sometimes it sucks: x-men 3, spidey 3, aliens vs predator

I'd do it in a way that robotech is allowed to be brought to japan without problems of vf-1 appearing in it. So space War I which had more action (a defense of a whole planet full of humans) than mospeada (just a small team) and southern cross (about medium sized) can come last. It might be more expensive to make, have more things fighting at any one time, and seem more fierce and desperate than the other two wars but would take advantage of the advances in fx seen later. (for example the cg got better in episode 3 of star wars prequel trilogy movies compared to episode 1 which had muddy textures) The problem of putting existing alphas in robotech would be that the giants would also have to be smaller. But making the last movie a prequel, and giving us a new mecha would fix that. Making the SW 1 movie come last means more time to design a new mech that never appears in any of the cartoons seen in robotech.

Did you like the anglee joke? Anglee?. nyuknyuk poo I'm good. But my point is that IF and only IF they can't make the VF-1 due to the bigwest problem, (are they planning on bringing this movie to japan? I doubt bigwest is going to like seeing vf-1 in an american movie) then and only then skip space war I, do robotech movie with alphas, ...and then after that, do a *prequel of robotech movie (covering space war I and featuring minmay and all that) which has a Mospeada Zero type fighter that is larger than the alpha fighter and sleeker, and more suitable for dogfighting than it. (bigger for alien giant killing purposes, slimmer for speed) *which is really the "Macross Saga" events, with new Mospeada Zero fighter designs in it. Battlestar galactica had new viper in it, so robotech gets its new fighter. (but this 'new' fighter is older in the story's timeline, of course)

I think they might go with a trilogy: 1. first movie is about minmay, the deadalus manuever and how it saved sdf-1 from blowing up, as well as global destruction of earth. 2. second movie is post-apoc earth with crap tanks which have better firepower and armor than valks but take ages to get from one place to another. They are heavy vehicles who come to the rescue at the last second like knights coming to the rescue. (THIS is when you can have a "robotech to the rescue!" tone to the battle, but just not for macross saga. . Robotech masters have an easy time now that rick is gone. But the tanks turn the tide of a fight like knights on horseback. 3. third movie is all about the RT master's enemy taking control and rick coming back with shadow alphas. It's a survival movie like aliens. Invid are too powerful, can sniff you out, and can swarm you if you are not sneaking. ...Just like the original. Now now, we all know what happened when transformers didn't stick close to the old designs and story. Everyone got angry. I think if the movies are a trilogy, and each one tries to preserve the spirit of the cartoon, fans would be happy. If Peter Jackson could stay close to the tolkien books when making the LOTR, why not the same thing for movie adaptations of Robotech? This is all assuming they can make the VERY-tech look like the thing in the cartoon. If they have to go straight with mospeada mecha, I say it should stay in space and just *skip space war I and make a movie that has the robotech name but isn't like what the cartoon was. Fans do want to see something close to what the thing they loved was on a big screen. Everyone got angry at ang lee hulk, bitched about aliens in indiana jones, and moaned about how the robots had no armor covering their body in transformers. *make a prequel movie of this if the first robotech movie does well. The prequel will explain how robot technology rapidly developed, the crash of the alien ship and the effect it had on religions and the warring that occurred on earth with futuristic weapons etc and the arrival of aliens forcing humans to pump all their effort into getting the ship off earth. What this would be is essentially a "Mospeada Zero" remaking the design of the first transforming fighters the way some people like to consider the VF-0 is kawamori's remake of the vf-1. An early alpha and beta fighter could replace the VF-1 from the old 80s cartoon. Perhaps they could make a sleeker fighter designed for atmospheric fights, and enlarge the fighter so it looks like it is suitable for giant-fighting in robot mode? (just as the VF-0 in macross Zero is larger than the VF-1 in SDF: macross?)

Also you've got to mention Reflex weapons and that the aliens are surprised we have them given how primitive in military tactics we are to them. Plus the fact that aliens are scared to damage the precious ship for fear they can't make any new protoculture energy from it which is why despite humans being outnumbered and no match for the millions of aliens we still survived the war. It's not "Robotech to the rescue!" like that toy ad! Definitely needs to play up the idea that this is the end of human race and the giants are just going easy on us. If it ever tries to make the humans look too gung ho, and sure of themselves, then it's lost the feel of the original. Rick and his mentor were drawn into the fight because they love flying (and to protect people - they have no choice) not because they are proud to kill. (definitely show flash back of them in the flying circus or whatever) They do however need a face off battle between a robot and a giant with the giant ripping the robot apart to show how scary these aliens are and how they've been built for combat and to survive harsh environments. (going into space for a short time?) This is the achievement of the aliens (in this case robotech masters?) research for however many years into making giant soldiers. Because of the limited ammo, and sheer number of enemies not to mention size of them, you can imagine a VF-1 being in a situation where it just doesn't have any ammo to spare and its only weapon is to go into robot mode and fight close range or steal an enemy weapon and use the hands of the robot to pull the trigger of a giant's rifle of whatever to continue fighting. When people mention robots are not all a robot movie is about, that shouldn't necessarily mean we can't highlight their importance in the war and why humans decided to go with the crazy idea. I want to see close-range fight with a giant and a robot and the differences between the aliens way of fighting (probably worse at dogfighting in earth than space) and humans. (not as useful and experienced in space - outclassed by the meltradi Qrau powered armor) The general feel is that humans survived the event of Space War One through luck, enemies' own misunderstanding of our behavior (scared of music? this is our only psycological advantage just as Professor Xavior in the X-men might be able to beat Magneto by probing his mind and showing him traumatic images of his troubled childhood ) and their own fear that they will destroy a one-of-a-kind ship which is too delicate to harm too much, so they must hold back. They could easily have taken hostages on earth and blackmailed the humans into giving the ship, but somehow they are more interested in following the ship than invading earth. It's NOT independence day. The aliens think differently and have more important issues than to worry about humans. I don't think it would be good if they tried to make them out as evil. Scary maybe, but part of that is because they know no better and were taught that there is nothing out of the ordinary with destroying planets. "War is the meaning of life". I'm pretty sure they are as curious about humans as they are devoted to carrying out the orders of the leader. Because they have strict rules they probably care about the glory that comes from winning in a fair fight too. (ie seeing humans as little threat to themselves so not taking us seriously, where going hard on a weak target isn't anything you can be proud of)

So what's the deal with the legal problems? That HG can't use any designs from any macross show beyond the SDF:M/macross saga anime, and if they use the ones from macross, that it wouldn't be able to be shown in japan so they'd have to change it into an f22 raptor-inspired valkyries .?? Sorry haven't been following the thread as attentively as I should have. And what's the macross itself going to be called? The mukcross, right?

I'm pretty sure robot falling in love with a car that it thinks is another robot (of the opposite sex) has been done in other shows. Beer? I'm just a little kid what are you talking about? It was oil.. It's entirely possible to be g1 fan friendly and fun for little kids to watch. Think 90s Batman cartoon: not 'aimed at kids' but appeals to everybody including kids. But strangely the look of them IS kiddy (exaggerated body shapes) instead of normal. (ie old x-men toon) It's hard to tell. This and the new spiderman cartoon are the two best cartoons I've been watching so far. It's cutting into my anime watching time.

..and yeah even if the movie sucked, but it resulted in alpha/beta fighter toys that didn't suck, that would be reason enough for me to be happy. Then when the movie comes out in japan, it sparks interest in mospeada again and then a new mospeada anime tv series is made.

My thoughts: I agree I would love to see some cool toys that are just like the VF-1, maybe even modernised a little then if they can't make them look exactly like the old cartoon. But if they can't use the vf-1 at least use the legioss/alpha and tread/beta fighter. Aaaaahh I am imaging myself going into a toy store now buying a perfect-transforming alpha fighter at a decent price. (but with the quality and attention to detail of an adult toy collector's toy)

http://macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?show...st&p=611881 ^ Some updated news on RT LAM.

Heh.. Hey why don't you chuck this into the official robotech the Live Action movie thread? In the long run it will benefit us all, as the news is rounded up together into one thread instead of split into multiples so people have to search for news like they were the shattered Allspark fragments in Transformers animated cartoon. chuck this news into here: http://macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?show...amp;hl=robotech

I agree that the animated are better than classics as toys. But the cartoony *look of them I'm not as into. (that doesn't mean that it isn't quality, just that I'm a fan of serious looking robots) But overall hasbro/takara are doing a great job making them look like the people in the toon. The good thing is: it is as if the toon is aimed/trying to appeal to people who were fans of g1 a lot with all the little homages to it. They know there are fans of the older series and I look forward to seeing each episode because the story is interesting to me. Even if I wasn't into the toys I would care about watching the show. *It's a bit like how when the batman animated series in the 90s first came out, I couldn't get used to the look of the stylised proportions of the character. IE the square jawed hero with broad shoulders and wide chest. I still have that same feeling when I see prime like that with weird proportions - I liked the way x-men animated toon just left the characters with normal bodies. Sure sure, there is less expressiveness to them, but you take them more seriously as well. Over time I got used to it, but still not necessarily preferring it to a normal figure. So although it's the trend to do it like that (see the star wars clone wars cartoon for example) I don't think it not being drawn that way is going to make it any more worse for fans of the show.

Bring back the alternators...

Well glad to hear no QC issues. So the first release curse has been broken then?

Transformers the cartoon relied a lot on magic so wouldn't it be ok for the movie to have magic too? We can be happy that some things that the movie got right (magic) but then angry at other things. (the look of the TF which change every time a new cartoon of it is made.) Can't please em all.

translation: TFClassics should have had a version of grimlock at a larger size than deluxe. Leader class grimlock would have rocked. Maybe if grimlock appears in the second live action TF movie in some form we might see a leader class grimlock? (also ditch the tailwhip weapon and give him a sword while they are at it) Giant dinosaur robot deserves a bigger size. Same thing with Starscream: I'm surprised there was no larger size toy of him in the live action movie line.. edit: oh and on the topic of grimlock, any news on if there will ever be a masterpiece grimlock in the future? I remember there were some rumours of that a while ago?

Well the only sacrifice is the small feet and skinny legs but it's made up for by the slim fighter mode.

The animated toys are out here in australia. Some them at Toys R Us for any aussies who might not have known.. I'm going to resist the temptation to buy any and wait for classics 2.0 or whatever it is called. Oh.. and although grimlock animated is probably a much better toy than classics grimlock, I still like the non-cartoony look of the grimlock classics. Would have been good if classics had a release of grimlock at leader class with better details and stuff. Too bad it's not a main line. I think a leader class classics of grimlock would sell. Major G1 character in both tv series (almost kills prime) and the animated movie.

Tried the collection DX review?: That's 1/48 VF-1, BTW. I thought that is what you asked for when you mentioned 1/48. There is no 1/48 VF-0 toy. And the VF-0 is just a simplified VF-1 transformation. So if you know the vf-1.....vf-0 shouldn't be much different.

Here's a challenge to fans of revoltech: Pick a pose that your revoltech toy can do and post a pic of it. And then see if graham can replicate that motion on the GNU. This will determine if comments like "oh it's too rigid looking" have any basis in fact or it's just a myth just because revoltechs were just better-presented in a pic from the person spending time trying to pose it. Many times I have seen toys just not posed well and it affects people's impression of that toy because time wasn't spent trying to make it look right. I can make my bandai 1/65 chunky munky vf-17 look pretty good if I put in the effort. But majority of the time when you look at a pic of it, it's just in the neutral standing pose because that's what the person likes to leave it in. Not that it can't do better poses, just that time and effort wasn't put into it. One of the things I was drawn to with the banpresto valks, is although they are POS in holding together well they seem to have great poseablity. Crouching, rising and lowering of shoulders, A stances, one-leg bent for stability stances, etc all thanks to the ball joints. But when you look at it standing upright in the box, you wouldn't think much of that and wouldn't be able to appreciate unless you spent time trying to pose it a lot.

The better sculpt seems to be the reason to get them. I think FP should have been included, and in the review maybe you should mention that upcoming ones will have FP to keep those informed who like the robot mode with FP attached to it to maybe wait? Nice comparison pics of the joints. I'm thinking that perhaps yamato should get the jump on kaiyodo and go to non-transformable robots first like the Qrau (I can see myself getting a green one) and rogue zentradi power armour? For me the challenge will be making it so that their bulky armour doesn't obstruct the movement of their limbs and you can do all the crouching poses and stuff not seen in bigger toys, or are too dangerous to try on models. Smaller also mean less chance of limbs going loose due to weight problems. So some of the back heavy stuff isn't as big a problem for the smaller toy.