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Duke Togo

SW: The Old Republic MMO

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While the trailers look AMAZING, sadly they aren't the gameplay footage. Actually go and look up gameplay footage from E3, and I'm sure you'll feel just as unimpressed as I do right now.

Not thrilled, and not buying it unless they make drastic improvements.

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It's been said several times that due to the vast numbers of Sith in the Old Republic era, both side's saber-fighting skills are far superior to "current" Republic-era. (and that way WAY back when, Sith were even better than Old Republic ones) Thus, it may be fairly common for a Jedi of that era to know/practice a very difficult saber-blocking force-power.

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^^Nah, massive-ass Force-push from the female Jedi. We've seen it already in the Force Unleashed series, so it didn't bug me too much.

The bare-handed saber-block? Can't really defend that one.

But one thing's for sure: after playing the role of cannon-fodder in that first TOR trailer, it's good to see the Republic troopers getting some serious love in this second trailer.

Bare-handed saber block, or a variation of the force push, aka pin point barrier. If you can push enough force into a small area(the palm of your hand), you can effectively stop the tip of the saber from touching your skin. Vader basically did the same thing in Empire Strikes Back with Han Solo's blaster.

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While the trailers look AMAZING, sadly they aren't the gameplay footage. Actually go and look up gameplay footage from E3, and I'm sure you'll feel just as unimpressed as I do right now.

Not thrilled, and not buying it unless they make drastic improvements.

I'm not thrilled either, but I'm going to buy it anyway. Not everyone can run a Crysis-level machine and this'll spread out those operating specs a bit. Is it best it could possibly be? Nah, but I don't play Bioware games for graphics.

It's been said several times that due to the vast numbers of Sith in the Old Republic era, both side's saber-fighting skills are far superior to "current" Republic-era. (and that way WAY back when, Sith were even better than Old Republic ones) Thus, it may be fairly common for a Jedi of that era to know/practice a very difficult saber-blocking force-power.

Indeed. This is one of the major overaching themes in all the Star Wars movies: that the current state is the tail end, the downward spiral, the end of the line. People throw about the term "used future" to describe the Original Trilogy, but most people don't realize that even the PT is stagnant and barely hanging on.

Gah! That trailer has brough out the fanboy in me! Is this a bad thing? Also, that trailer proved that Jedi and Sith are NOT gods, as some in the fandom insist. They're normal, every day human (mostly) beings that can and do fall. And even a man in armour can take one on and prevail.

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Bare-handed saber block, or a variation of the force push, aka pin point barrier. If you can push enough force into a small area(the palm of your hand), you can effectively stop the tip of the saber from touching your skin. Vader basically did the same thing in Empire Strikes Back with Han Solo's blaster.

ok, i get it, these past force users were way more superior than the ones we see in the movies....if that's the case, Luke and Yoda shouldn't be called Jedi "masters" :-p

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ok, i get it, these past force users were way more superior than the ones we see in the movies....if that's the case, Luke and Yoda shouldn't be called Jedi "masters" :-p

Luke shouldn't but Yoda can absorb force lightning.

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Luke couldn't because they didn't have the special effects for it in 1980.

Who would have thought that even in a galaxy far far away, Luke Skywalker was a victum of the times.

Also, that trailer just reinforces my opinion that Luke was a pansy, because the Trooper took force lightning to the face and was still in berserker mode.

Edited by one_klump

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Luke couldn't because they didn't have the special effects for it in 1980.

Who would have thought that even in a galaxy far far away, Luke Skywalker was a victum of the times.

Also, that trailer just reinforces my opinion that Luke was a pansy, because the Trooper took force lightning to the face and was still in berserker mode.

That trooper is more of a badass than Anakin and Windu both which were defeated by force lightning.

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While the trailers look AMAZING, sadly they aren't the gameplay footage. Actually go and look up gameplay footage from E3, and I'm sure you'll feel just as unimpressed as I do right now.

I have to agree, the Gameplay showed the typical MMO combat going on - people moving slowing or not at all while getting shot multiple times and not showing any effect till they die. Yawn...

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I have to agree, the Gameplay showed the typical MMO combat going on - people moving slowing or not at all while getting shot multiple times and not showing any effect till they die. Yawn...

Because having your movement affected when you get shot in a game is more fun, right?

Seriously, if you want to make a MMO where you get killed with 1 shot from a lightsaber or Blaster, where is the fun in that?

This is a game, not a simulation of living in the Old Republic.

Sometimes I think people put on their Antagonist Glasses on before logging into Macrossworld.

Edited by one_klump

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Because having your movement affected when you get shot in a game is more fun, right?

In a word, yes.

Seriously, if you want to make a MMO where you get killed with 1 shot from a lightsaber or Blaster, where is the fun in that?

None - but maybe animating the characters dodging might be nice, or forcing them to use actual tactis like using cover to shoot from would be nice. Having them survive 2 or 3 hits at most would be a lot better then having them take tens or hundreds.

This is a game, not a simulation of living in the Old Republic.

I expect games to have some semblence with reality. Maybe I'm just crazy. EDIT - Within the Star Wars universe, which these games are supposed to be trying to recreate, people do not generally take lots and lots of hits without dying, or at least feeling the pain of the hits.

Sometimes I think people put on their Antagonist Glasses on before logging into Macrossworld.

Complete agreement.

Edited by Dynaman

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Luke couldn't because they didn't have the special effects for it in 1980.

Who would have thought that even in a galaxy far far away, Luke Skywalker was a victum of the times.

that is the best answer ever!!! you sir, win 100 internet points :-)

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Because having your movement affected when you get shot in a game is more fun, right?

Seriously, if you want to make a MMO where you get killed with 1 shot from a lightsaber or Blaster, where is the fun in that?

This is a game, not a simulation of living in the Old Republic.

Sometimes I think people put on their Antagonist Glasses on before logging into Macrossworld.

In the movies people react to blows and die with one shot to the main body with a blaster and a lightsaber cuts through things. Not bat them around like a giant glow stick.

Each encounter should be a tense life or death situation where one mistake can cause you to lose your life. You just re-spawn anyways so I don't see why they can't make it that way.

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Here is the problem, even if lightsabers and blasters are made into 1 hit kill weapons, people will then complain about how respawning is not realistic.

People can accept something as crazy as reappearing after being killed with their armor and items intact, but can't accept a blaster not being one shot kill lethal in a video game.

As for people dodging, I'm sure that the animation department is going to have dodge / parry animations for when you do either. However, because it is an MMO, and server-client communication will have lag, making people's wish for crazy stunts controlled by the player mostly impossible.

As for people surviving tens or hundreds of shots, I didn't see anything like that in any of the trailers. With appropriate armor, I'm sure a trooper could take a few direct hits, and with some mystic jedi healing he could take even more. Maybe stim packs to let them ignore the pain, or instant bacta packs. In essence a healer class or health potion, but with different terminology to make the lore people happy.

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As for people dodging, I'm sure that the animation department is going to have dodge / parry animations for when you do either. However, because it is an MMO, and server-client communication will have lag, making people's wish for crazy stunts controlled by the player mostly impossible.

No extra server processing is needed, all it needs to do is send the same information it is sending the now - the client would render it as a dodge rather then just showing the person getting hit.

As for people surviving tens or hundreds of shots, I didn't see anything like that in any of the trailers. With appropriate armor, I'm sure a trooper could take a few direct hits, and with some mystic jedi healing he could take even more. Maybe stim packs to let them ignore the pain, or instant bacta packs. In essence a healer class or health potion, but with different terminology to make the lore people happy.

Jedi were not shown in the movies as having an instant heal ability - and bacta tanks were bulky and took time to heal people. The problem is that the MMO community is unwilling to leave the comfort of the DnD trappings - they make things look different (a blaster instead of an arrow or Magic Missile) or give them different names (Jedi Powers instead of healing spells) but in the end the result is the same. If people really want to play Everquest the game is still running somewhere, isn't it?

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Here is the problem, even if lightsabers and blasters are made into 1 hit kill weapons, people will then complain about how respawning is not realistic.

People can accept something as crazy as reappearing after being killed with their armor and items intact, but can't accept a blaster not being one shot kill lethal in a video game.

As for people dodging, I'm sure that the animation department is going to have dodge / parry animations for when you do either. However, because it is an MMO, and server-client communication will have lag, making people's wish for crazy stunts controlled by the player mostly impossible.

As for people surviving tens or hundreds of shots, I didn't see anything like that in any of the trailers. With appropriate armor, I'm sure a trooper could take a few direct hits, and with some mystic jedi healing he could take even more. Maybe stim packs to let them ignore the pain, or instant bacta packs. In essence a healer class or health potion, but with different terminology to make the lore people happy.

I've never played a mmo before but you'll re-spawn every time you die right? So why does it matter if you die in 1 hit or 50 hits??

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I've never played a mmo before but you'll re-spawn every time you die right? So why does it matter if you die in 1 hit or 50 hits??

Yes - since it takes about an hour of walking around to get back to where you died...

(to be fair, MMO games just aren't my thing - so I'm taking some easy shots. I just booted up Knights of the Old Republic and even that I thought was terrible - and it was considered a top tier CRPG when it came out. It was not an MMO but suffers from the same problems of the genre.)

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Gaming press previews are saying that the actual in-game graphics on the alpha builds they were shown were higher quality and higher resolution than what we have been shown in screen shots.

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Sounds promising. I hope I'll be able to shake WoW's fangs out of my neck with this one.

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Ghost Train's guide to enjoying MMORPG's:

(Inspired by experience from FFXI, EVE, and STO)

1)Start early

2)Pick most powerful melee/dps class.

3)Own everything / everyone.

4)Make lots of videos.

5)Quit before your class is nerfed. This will happen as surely as the sun rises every morning.

6)Regain real life.

This leads us to the three laws of MMO's:

1) If an ability, attack or strategy works too well, it will be nerfed/adjusted/changed.

2) If you enjoy being a certain class/job a lot! ... it will be nerfed/adjusted/changed.

3) Blame everything on Chinese gold sellers.

Edited by Ghost Train

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I follow that with the addendum "blame Arenas / PVP"

Edited by one_klump

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ok, so i accepted the old force users are better than the new force users (special effects and all). So why don't they have a badass Jedi fight with no light saber? i mean that female Jedi pratically beated that sith with no light saber. I mean if i was as powerful as her, i would be walking around and blocking lightsabers and blast shots with my bare hands and destroying people with my Super Ryu fireballs!!! i would be the most badass jedi ever!! The Jedi with no lightsaber!

Maybe the new generation of force user created the light saber to compensate their skill with the force, no? ;)

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"This is the weapon of a Jedi Knight. Not as clumsy or as random as a blaster. An elegant weapon for a more civilized age..." says Obi-wan.

A lightsaber is much more versatile than as a mere weapon. Its many uses range from cutting bread (instant toast!) to use as a light source. Its basically the trench shovel of force users.

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^^And you can use it to gut a tauntaun (for an instant warm, cozy sleeping bag) and for emergency amputations.

If that Sith wasn't smart enough to:

  • turn off his lightsaber;
  • Punch or Force-lightning that female Jedi with his free hand; or
  • Use a Force-choke or Force push after that initial hand block.

. . .then he deserved to get punked with the ultimate-final-finishing-super-combo Force push.

Silly Sith. :p

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Jedi-Sith fights do seem to degenerate to that often. For all their training/powers, that often seems to be the winning move. "Boot to the head!"

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Why didn't Mace Windu get a "Force"-AK-47?

When you absolutely, positively, need to kill every muthafart*n Sith in the room... accept no substitute! .

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"Disappointment: I see that my wonderfully verbose exposition on Jedi extermination techniques has fallen upon deaf meatbag ears.

Such is my lot in life, I suppose."

HK-47 > AK-47 ;)

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ok, i get it, these past force users were way more superior than the ones we see in the movies....if that's the case, Luke and Yoda shouldn't be called Jedi "masters" :-p

That's a tad unfair. Consider modern-day kenjitsu or fencing masters. They have just as much training as their historical counterparts and are just as desersving of the title of "master", but who would seriously win in a fight? A modern-day practicioner or someone who actually used those skills on the field of battle?

Same thing here: the Old Republic Jedi used those fighting skills constantly in life-or-death situations and were absolute masters of lightsaber combat; modern Jedi have no such need and skill with the blade had stagnated. And yet at the same time, modern Jedi were much more practiced with negotiation and "keepers of the peace, not soldiers".

But the point still stands. By the PT era, the Jedi had become so stagnant and unbending that it led to their undoing.

... I'm a fanboy, aren't I? *sobs*

ps: watching that Trooper kick ass was awesome. It's nice to see that a regular human can engage a force-user and survive (though with much difficulty and not for very long).

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While EvE is still extraordinarily tempting to jump into, trailers (and the simple concept of BioWare + MMO) such as this make me glad to wait. Afterall, one can't be addicted to two MMOs, can he? :unsure:

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If Mass Effect 2 has taught me anything, its that Old Republic is in good hands.

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I'm definately looking forward to this game mainly for the playability factor, the graphics could have been better and it would be nice if some of it gets improved but oh well. I dont play MMO's that often and was wondering how secure the game will be to play? Can I expect someone walking up with a hacked/juiced up character that will take my stuff in a blink of an eye or have a combat round cheated combat values switched? Do they do a good job of policing stuff like that or will it just be an eventual free for all?

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I'm definately looking forward to this game mainly for the playability factor, the graphics could have been better and it would be nice if some of it gets improved but oh well. I dont play MMO's that often and was wondering how secure the game will be to play? Can I expect someone walking up with a hacked/juiced up character that will take my stuff in a blink of an eye or have a combat round cheated combat values switched? Do they do a good job of policing stuff like that or will it just be an eventual free for all?

I've played a few different MMOs and have never once been witness to someone hacking the system in their favor like that. SWG, CoH/V, and currently WoW being some of the few.

I've seen a few speed hacks in WoW and some of the gold sellers are using a floating character bot now, but they don't last much longer than a few minutes because WoW constantly scans for anything that modifies code. I don't see ToR being any different.

Edited by Chewie

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