geecie30 Posted June 5, 2004 Share Posted June 5, 2004 I was painting a figure that was pvc and the enamel paint hasn't dried in 2 days .Do I wait longer or strip it off and paint with some other paint? I'm not sure how to strip the paint the figure stays tacky it appears dry but there is a small level of tackiness. some of the features were messed up so I know at least one part will be needing paint removal .does any one have an idea what to do? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myersjessee Posted June 5, 2004 Share Posted June 5, 2004 (edited) ouch...Im not sure which thinners are safe with PVC... Edited June 5, 2004 by Myersjessee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neova Posted June 5, 2004 Share Posted June 5, 2004 Hmmm you can try a heat lamp but the PVC might melt or loose its shape... Thats the bad thing about PVC but a little heat should not hurt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VF-19 Posted June 6, 2004 Share Posted June 6, 2004 Or you could wait a bit longer. Enamels sometimes takes a very long time to cure. Drying paint is one thing, but it has to cure first. Give it a week at the most. If it's still tacky, either its never going to cure, or it's going to take longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrance Wong Posted June 6, 2004 Share Posted June 6, 2004 I once spray-painted a Gundam MSiA figure with Testors. Found out it wouldn't dry for a week or two (and thus came out looking crappy with all those fingerprints on it). Even now, it's still a bit sticky (not much though...it looks like there's more dust than paint ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnollman Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Enamels will never cure on PVC... there's some sort of chemical reaction between the PVC and the paint, or so I've heard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geecie30 Posted July 5, 2004 Author Share Posted July 5, 2004 (edited) It is funny but there must be different types of acrylic paint because enamel doesn't work like you said allreadyhowever the acrylic I bought is like latex paint and even smells like it(house paint)which I know how to use but its hardly seeming to me like model grade paint ,even though its easy to use and thin down.(maybe its that Iam applying it with paint brushes instead of an airbrush, that I need to go over the dry paint to get the imperfections and eveness corrected, instead of with a air brush with quality tips and such) .So I think there must be a more correct type acrylic something that goes on smooth like nail polish almost but I'm not sure where to find acrylic pvc paint kit ...paint Also enamel may have cured in time, but the oil in the enamel if it doesn't cure in a timely fashion(1 or two days begins to sweat and separate),like when the oil comes out of pores on your forehead which will basically to me demulsify but ,I'm just a beginner so maybe results vary for some ,brand to brand.This is just my experience that I am refering to.It also appears to me that letting the primer dry for 2 days or cure for two days is essential. Actually the pics of me with misa here are done in acrylic and are working fine but, the stuff smells like latex and is water based but, I dont like how thick it goes on thats all. It seems like testors and tamiya acrylic have some stronger smelling chemicals in them.These acrylics I dont know about ,these acrylics are the ones I'm curious about .It seems to me they are different than the acrylic I'm using now and maybe they might lay down smoother due to this smell I've encountered?but right now I've almost completed the misa with what I have.Any comments? Edited July 6, 2004 by geecie30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayson72 Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 Man you look pissed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSP Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 There's to much softner in PVC! So you should never use Enamel colours on Vinyl GKs. Not even if you used a Primer. Also if you think of using two different kinds of colour coats. Enamel is benzol based ! It#s sure eats up the softner in PVC. I painted a Detornator Orgun with Enamel when I was a kid. Well I sure messed up this kit. Bath your kit in brake fluid or use oven cleaner spray for stripping of enamel colours. Sorry for my bad english. Gaijins from the old country don't write english that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hingtgen Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 (edited) Acrylic, enamel, etc have two general definitions: Hobbyists call anything solvent-based enamel, and anything "not solvent"-based acrylic. But technically, acrylic/enamel only refers to the binder, not the carrier. The carrier can be anything, with either binder. Binder---what's left in paint when you remove the carrier and the pigment. Carrier---the liquid part of paint, generally what's used to thin it. Acrylic binder is actually liquid plastic (latex most often), I don't know off the top of my head what enamel is. Latex=specific type of acrylic. But most latex paints are solvent-based,. Pollyscale is darn close to water-based latex, IMHO. So, there are acrylic enamels, enamel acrylics, laquer acrylics, acrylic acrylics, etc. What most people consider "acrylic" are "non-solvent" acrylics, aka aqueous acrylics. However, Tamiya is an acrylic enamel. Krylon is actually a lacquer acrylic. PS--yes, we all know water is a solvent, but most people mean solvent=lacquer thinner or mineral/white spirits. Of course, Testors Acrylics are Sunny Delight/Antifreeze-based... Edited July 5, 2004 by David Hingtgen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain america Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 To keep things short, sweet and simple, your enamel paints will always remain tacky on PVC vinyl kits. You'll just have to strip it. How do you strip a painted vinyl kit? Try Easy Off LEMON scented oven cleaner. Before committing that to the actual kit, do yourself a huge favor and test it on a leftover scrap piece. If all goes well, it'll just attack the enamel paint, and you'll be able to wipe off the residue with a cloth ( takes about 4-6 hrs.) For vinyl kits, you should stick to hobby paints like GUNZE SANGYO Aqueous colors, or Tamiya acrylics... Both available from any reputable hobby retailer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geecie30 Posted July 6, 2004 Author Share Posted July 6, 2004 That I will do next time Thanx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 Haha, I remember making that mistake in grade 5 with these little pvc toys....what the hell were they again....little wrestlers....all of them were skin color....forgot what they were called but people were collecting them like crazy. Even today, they are still sticky.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myersjessee Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 Acrylic, enamel, etc have two general definitions:Hobbyists call anything solvent-based enamel, and anything "not solvent"-based acrylic. But technically, acrylic/enamel only refers to the binder, not the carrier. The carrier can be anything, with either binder. Binder---what's left in paint when you remove the carrier and the pigment. Carrier---the liquid part of paint, generally what's used to thin it. Acrylic binder is actually liquid plastic (latex most often), I don't know off the top of my head what enamel is. Latex=specific type of acrylic. But most latex paints are solvent-based,. Pollyscale is darn close to water-based latex, IMHO. So, there are acrylic enamels, enamel acrylics, laquer acrylics, acrylic acrylics, etc. What most people consider "acrylic" are "non-solvent" acrylics, aka aqueous acrylics. However, Tamiya is an acrylic enamel. Krylon is actually a lacquer acrylic. PS--yes, we all know water is a solvent, but most people mean solvent=lacquer thinner or mineral/white spirits. Of course, Testors Acrylics are Sunny Delight/Antifreeze-based... Is it bad that your scaring me? Man....who needs Google when I can ask Dave! (P.S. - cheers...and thanks for the awesome explanation...the jibe is in jest alone... ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayson72 Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 Thanks for the explanation David, now I'm really confused. Can you answer me this though, can I use the same Tamiya thinner on Gunze Aqueous that I use for my Tamiya paints? Grayson72 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hingtgen Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 I don't think I've heard of using Tamiya thinner on Gunze. I've got some Gunze coming, and plan to experiment with various Isopropyl alcohols (seems to be the most common thing used). (Which is what Tamiya thinner mostly is, but it's that last 1% of "secret" ingredients which makes it different) AFAIK, there is no dedicated thinner sold for Gunze Aqueous. Of course, there's always people who say using enamel or lacquer thinner to airbrush acrylics works wonderfully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayson72 Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 Thanks, yeah laquer thinner really works well on both those paints when I'm deep cleaning my brush, dissolves 'em on contact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain america Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 You can definitely thin Tamiya or Gunze acrylics with lacquer thinner, but I wonder if that would be wise for painting. Personally, since acrylics are water-soluble, I like to take the less toxic route, and thin them with either rubbing alcohol, or if you need the paint finish to be a tad shinier, or for clears, I use distilled water. I have built-up models painted entirely with acrylics that were done almost 15 years ago, and the finish is still as nice as if it had been applied a few hours ago... All acrylics diluted with alcohol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSP Posted July 8, 2004 Share Posted July 8, 2004 Alcohol based window cleaner. They do fine as thinner for Gunze and Tamiya acrylic paints. But for painting figures the best choice is Citadel/Games Workshop colors. The only thinner you will need for these is water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geecie30 Posted July 17, 2004 Author Share Posted July 17, 2004 (edited) And finally after all the advice I have completed my first figure model kit in pvc I think it's taken a couple months now.I think if I had better tools, I could have done better.If I did this again it would be considerably easier.Honestly,unless I had a model buddy that lived near by I would not do this kit without the guidance of a more practiced and polished model maker ,never-the-less she is complete, apart from the clear coat that I will put on tommorro after the fog clears in my area. Edited July 17, 2004 by geecie30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geecie30 Posted July 17, 2004 Author Share Posted July 17, 2004 web cam image Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geecie30 Posted July 17, 2004 Author Share Posted July 17, 2004 mosaic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeo-mare Posted July 17, 2004 Share Posted July 17, 2004 it looks great keep up the good work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armor Posted July 17, 2004 Share Posted July 17, 2004 Dude that looks great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valkyrietestpilot Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 wow dude.misa looks great.i had the same problem w/ pvc's a few years ago.damn enamel turns the upper layer of plastic to goo,thereby ruining your figure as well as your paint job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geecie30 Posted July 20, 2004 Author Share Posted July 20, 2004 (edited) Yeah I was lucky I stripped down the paint with oven cleaner and reprimed it and I painted the whole thing with acrlylic. A little secret ,even though I painted her dress with acrylic I shouldn't have. While acrylic works great(I used wicker white acrylic),the krylon white primer is the ultimate color and it is very tough,I recomend only using krylon white for the dress it is the right color and it will save you alot of painting time(one lesson learned) As I said before, this was my first model ever but I'm a perfectionist kind of ,and a bit artsy ,some times tenacious this is why I kept going when I really wanted to scrap the whole idea and maybe even turn on the garbage disposalIts misa however I owe her alot more. I think I hate enamel(solvent based) paint,the stuff never drys on almost anything to me its like using pigment mixed with pancake syrup.Yes it is paint and yes it is color.yes it is sticky and never drys........................................need I say more. It finally turned out ok and now I can work with pvc a bit more confidently Edited July 21, 2004 by geecie30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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