bsu legato Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 http://www.psxnation.com/movies/mgs3_camouflage_e.wmv Is it just me, or is changing your camo several times a level just getting silly? Worse, why are we allowed to change it instantaneoulsy in a "realistic" game like Metal Gear? If they'd kept the quasi-futuristic setting of the original Metal Gear Solid games, I could have accepted that Snake was using some kind of adaptable camo suit, but instead we're supposed to accept that '60's era "Snake" (or is it Big Boss?) is carrying a backpack stuffed full of different jumpsuits. "Oh look, some shadows. I'll put on my 'black' camo." "Oh look, a clump of grass. I'd better get out my 'woodland' camo." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ladic Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 Is it true that Solid Sanke is Big Bosses CLone? I have only beat the Original Metal Gear for NES and MGS1 for PS1 and never knew this, where did they explain it? MGS2? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
areaseven Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 (edited) Is it true that Solid Sanke is Big Bosses CLone? I have only beat the Original Metal Gear for NES and MGS1 for PS1 and never knew this, where did they explain it? MGS2? In MGS1, Big Boss' DNA was used to create Solid Snake and Liquid Snake. But according to Liquid, all of the perfect genes were given to Solid Snake, while he was given the leftovers. Edited April 13, 2004 by areaseven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoryHolmes Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 Is it true that Solid Sanke is Big Bosses CLone? I have only beat the Original Metal Gear for NES and MGS1 for PS1 and never knew this, where did they explain it? MGS2? In MGS1, Big Boss' clones were used to create Solid Snake and Liquid Snake. But according to Liquid, all of the perfect genes were given to Solid Snake, while he was given the leftovers. SPOILER ALERT! Don't really know why I put that in there, but I guess it could be needed. At the end of MGS1, Ocelot is talking with Solidus and it's discussed that Liquid and Solid were perfect clones of each other, no difference at all between them. All of that garbage about how Solid was getting the dominant genes was just lies told to Liquid, probably to make him hate more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom64ss Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 Is it true that Solid Sanke is Big Bosses CLone? I have only beat the Original Metal Gear for NES and MGS1 for PS1 and never knew this, where did they explain it? MGS2? In MGS1, Big Boss' clones were used to create Solid Snake and Liquid Snake. But according to Liquid, all of the perfect genes were given to Solid Snake, while he was given the leftovers. The best part was when Danny Devito yells, "You mess with me, you mess with my whole family!" What?.... Oh, that was Twins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isamu Atreides 86 Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 As Cory Mentioned, there was a third, older clone, Solidus who Raiden takes out at the end of MSG 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoryHolmes Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 I doubt of Solidus was any older than the other two. Snake did look pretty wasted in the Plant chapter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchVile Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 (edited) *Spoiler for both MGS1 and 2* Well Solidus would have to be atleast 40 during the Shadow Moses crisis because Presidents need to be atleast 40. And personally to me Snake looked to be more in his late 20s early 30s in MGS1. Also Liquid mentioned that Snake and Liquid were twins and I wouldn't be suprised if Solidus was the "prototype" therefore making him older. Edited April 12, 2004 by ArchVile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfx Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 Is it true that Solid Sanke is Big Bosses CLone? I have only beat the Original Metal Gear for NES and MGS1 for PS1 and never knew this, where did they explain it? MGS2? In MGS1, Big Boss' clones were used to create Solid Snake and Liquid Snake. But according to Liquid, all of the perfect genes were given to Solid Snake, while he was given the leftovers. SPOILER ALERT! Don't really know why I put that in there, but I guess it could be needed. At the end of MGS1, Ocelot is talking with Solidus and it's discussed that Liquid and Solid were perfect clones of each other, no difference at all between them. All of that garbage about how Solid was getting the dominant genes was just lies told to Liquid, probably to make him hate more. SPOILER!!! Not really....at the end of MGS 1, Ocelot reported to Solidus that the INFERIOR one won. That means Solid Snake was the inferior one, despite what Liquid Snake thought. And personally....MGS is turning dumber and dumber. I tried to like MGS 2, I really did....but really...there was nothing good about it. Too much effort was put into the graphics and details that gameplay was crap, story was weird beyond hell. Is it just me who thinks that MGS 2 ends as if it was an elaborate moral story about individuality or something? The whole thing seemed as if it was a dream, and Snake, from badass Spec Ops dude becomes into wise-guru of wisdom about the purpose of existence. WTF?! And there were moments left unanswered, like when Raiden 1st encountered Vamp and Snake, Snake gets an injury from Vamp. He talks with Raiden after scaring Vamp off, and when Raiden walks away, Snake's eyes glow evilly. And.... wth is the lalelalelooo or whatever that is......and why did the president grab Raiden's crotch? (he thought raiden was some chick from the lalelalelooo) MGS 2 is like one huge joke to me. The kinda feeling I got when I watched End Of Evangelion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druna Skass Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 http://www.psxnation.com/movies/mgs3_camouflage_e.wmvIs it just me, or is changing your camo several times a level just getting silly? Worse, why are we allowed to change it instantaneoulsy in a "realistic" game like Metal Gear? If they'd kept the quasi-futuristic setting of the original Metal Gear Solid games, I could have accepted that Snake was using some kind of adaptable camo suit, but instead we're supposed to accept that '60's era "Snake" (or is it Big Boss?) is carrying a backpack stuffed full of different jumpsuits. "Oh look, some shadows. I'll put on my 'black' camo." "Oh look, a clump of grass. I'd better get out my 'woodland' camo." If you can swallow a teenage girl's singing can stun a fleet of 4000000+ ships long enough for a fleet of around 5000 to defeat them, then changing camos in a video game shouldn't be to hard to swallow as well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolly Rogers Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 Worse, why are we allowed to change it instantaneoulsy in a "realistic" game like Metal Gear? There is nothing remotely realistic when Snake can engage in Codec chatter all day without attracting all the guards around him, assuming he is voicing his lines - I don't think it was ever mentioned that the nano-machines can read what's on the spec op agent's mind and translate it into speech the field CO are hearing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mk16 Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 adding to the counter realism theme. hmm were does snake keep all those weapons, he doesnt even have a backpack or anything. Id like to know were he keeps that nikita launcher, or all the ammo in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UN Spacy Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 adding to the counter realism theme. hmm were does snake keep all those weapons, he doesnt even have a backpack or anything. Id like to know were he keeps that nikita launcher, or all the ammo in the first place. I think this one (like previous MW'ers stated) is supposed to take place before the very first Metal Gear Solid (for the NES). I thought the guards were supposed to get smarter with every new MGS installment. I don't care if you're a rent a cop patroling the local parking lot. How hard can it be to spot somebody wearing ALL CAMO (when you're that close)? ...and the guard running away from the faux alligator head. Yikes. But I'm still gonna pick this one up...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfx Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 adding to the counter realism theme. hmm were does snake keep all those weapons, he doesnt even have a backpack or anything. Id like to know were he keeps that nikita launcher, or all the ammo in the first place. I think this one (like previous MW'ers stated) is supposed to take place before the very first Metal Gear Solid (for the NES). I thought the guards were supposed to get smarter with every new MGS installment. I don't care if you're a rent a cop patroling the local parking lot. How hard can it be to spot somebody wearing ALL CAMO (when you're that close)? ...and the guard running away from the faux alligator head. Yikes. But I'm still gonna pick this one up...... My theory is his sneak suit camouflages him somewhat reducing the visual range of those Next Generation soldiers whatever they are called. Supposedly have heightened senses and strength, its kinda dodgy that they cannot see snake who is more than 3 feet away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the white drew carey Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 Hmmm... All I get is sound, no picture. That camo must be good! Regarding the realism- IIRC, I heard somewhere that many aspects of the MG series are intentionally kept unrealistic in order to reinforce the fact that it is only a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the white drew carey Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 P.S.- IIRC, this one is supposed to take place mid-60's, early-70's. The Metal Gear designs shown thus far do look pretty old school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JsARCLIGHT Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 Anyone seen anything on what type of gear (other than camo) is going to be in this game? I'm a bit tired of all the spec ops "oops" choices they made for the new games... Mk23 Socom? D'oh! FaMAS? D'oh! M92 that shoots magic sleepy time bullets? D'oh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoryHolmes Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 M92 that shoots magic sleepy time bullets? D'oh! Hey, I like that dartgun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruel Angel's Thesis Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 Actually the Codec is fairly realistic, you just need to remind yourself that the Snake isn't really talking outloud, it looks that way, so it doesn't look stupid that we hear Snake's voice, but his lips aren;t moving. Like watching a badly dubbed anime. The Codec is actually based on subvocalization. Snake talks inside his throat, we can't hear it, but the nanomachines can process the way the vocal cords are moving and translate it into sound speech, besides you really just want to scroll through all that text or listen to a full out conversation? I take the conversation myself. Since MGS takes place in 20XX (the NES game takes place in 1999) its safe to assume we have subvoc technology working fine. Cruel Angel's Thesis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JsARCLIGHT Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 OK, I just now saw the test movie (at work where I have a DSL connection)... Holy cats that has to be the lamest thing I have seen in a while. HE'S RIGHT THRERE! Any idiot who plays paintball could spot snake! Next generation uber commando genome soldiers my aunt fannie... I understand the need to dumb down the game and change elements so people can play a "tactical action" game with some fun elements in it but at least in the first MGS games it was somewhat realistic that Snake was obscured by walls and things... I mean he was actually hiding then. Now they have just gone stupid on it. UN Spacy is 100% right that even while hiding in a field of grass while wearing tiger stripe camo a trained eye can and will spot you in seconds. If they want to use this premise I suggest at least making it so when you hide up against a freaking tree four feet away from an enemy that at least the enemy is smart enough to say "hmmmm... strange... that tree has buttons, zippers and LBE equipment on it..." And what is with all the motion? Nothing defeats camo better than moving around a lot. Oops, here comes an enemy! I better crouch down and back away from him! He'll never spot a large moving blob five feet away from him disturbing the grass and making shuffling noises... Combat camo is made to give you a split second advantage over your enemy, not conceil you completely from their view at four feet away. In order to pull off the kind of conceilment they are passing off in this game you would need a nice Guile suit, tons of training and nerves of steel. Oh well, we now know what this is... yet another: VIDEO... GAME... GIMICK! dun duuun duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Jenius Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 I think it will be a fun game. You guys are dorks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsu legato Posted April 14, 2004 Author Share Posted April 14, 2004 I think it will be a fun game. You guys are dorks. You just remember that while you're knee deep in Solid Snake's magical dress-up adventure. And don't forget your facepaint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JsARCLIGHT Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 I think it has potential to be a fun game as well, but come on. While watching that footage I kept saying "he'll see snake... now... ok... now... ooooohhhhkkkaaaaayyyy... now.... what are you, blind you idiot he's right there! Now he's moving! Can't you see the grass moving!?!" Enemy AI appears to be dumb as a post to me. I'm hoping they make the game a bit harder so they actually pick up on the super obvious this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EXO Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 I think it has potential to be a fun game as well, but come on. While watching that footage I kept saying "he'll see snake... now... ok... now... ooooohhhhkkkaaaaayyyy... now.... what are you, blind you idiot he's right there! Now he's moving! Can't you see the grass moving!?!"Enemy AI appears to be dumb as a post to me. I'm hoping they make the game a bit harder so they actually pick up on the super obvious this time. lol! Video games are not the only thing like that. Just like in movies, people can't seem to see above eye level. I mean if I walked into my room and there was a guy wearing a blue and red suit stuck to the ceiling, I'd sure as hell will have a heart attack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundown Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 Anyone seen anything on what type of gear (other than camo) is going to be in this game? I'm a bit tired of all the spec ops "oops" choices they made for the new games... Mk23 Socom? D'oh! FaMAS? D'oh! M92 that shoots magic sleepy time bullets? D'oh! The Mk23 Socom is hardly a Spec-ops "doh" choice, although that seems to the popular misconception on the internet-- that it's an anchor and real Spec-Ops types snub their collective noses at it. It's actually now well received in Navy Specwar teams, and suppliments the P226 for when a corrosion resistant secondary or a .45's needed-- contrary to the perpetuated myth. I dunno, the camo thing actually seems kind of neat, even if Snake's not actually that well hidden to the player. You can always just pretend that he's actually harder to see than he really is on screen =D, especially if the enemy's not looking for him specifically. The lame thing is the constant quick uniform changing, just because you've moved into a clump of grass, or into a shadow. And changing once the enemy's already spotted you is... well... silly. Unless of course... what Snake's wearing is composed of some space age nano-tech material that can change from several stored camo patterns in the memory threads weaved right into the fabric's fibers. In fact, I'm willing to be that'll be their reasoning for the gimmick. What type of weapons snake's going to be hauling this time around'll be interesting enough... since he's in the 60's. Meaning, no M4's. No M92's. No Mk23's. Hrm. -Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsu legato Posted April 14, 2004 Author Share Posted April 14, 2004 The lame thing is the constant quick uniform changing, just because you've moved into a clump of grass, or into a shadow. And changing once the enemy's already spotted you is... well... silly. My point exactly! I enjoyed the first game's emphasis on stealth, and a well implemented camoflage would only add to that gameplay. However, since the standard MGS interface allows you to equip and unequip your entire inventory at the push of a button (also freezing the game until you finish) really takes away from it, IMHO. Where's the suspense when all of your different camo is just a click away? Unless of course... what Snake's wearing is composed of some space age nano-tech material that can change from several stored camo patterns in the memory threads weaved right into the fabric's fibers. In fact, I'm willing to be that'll be their reasoning for the gimmick. Not likely, since the game takes place during the 1960's. But you never know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JsARCLIGHT Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 If the game does take place in the '60s then you have a plethora of cool '60s "subversion" weapons that can be used in the game... Hush puppies, Sweedish K's, suppressed Ingrams, Colt Commando pistols and rifles... the list goes on. The baddies are carrying Kalishnakovs in the movie so we can at least expect that gun in the game. Oh and my knowledge of the Mk23 is first hand, not internet rumor and put ons. The gun is unwieldy and not as usefull as people make it out to me. I took one through a guantlet a while back and found it to be way to big, hard to manage even with both hands and it kicks strange. If given the choice of jumping into a hot LZ with a pistol BU weapon I' choose that 226 any day of the week. Smaller, higher capacity and easier to shoot. Sounds to me the only reason the specops people keep choosing that gun is because it is the only thing in their gun locker that can stand heavy underwater use... and just because it is their only choice does not make it their best. The Mk23 is a gun designed to fill a role the government thought the troops would want a weapon to fill... turns out the job that weapon was made to do happens once every one hundred or so ops and most of the time the SEAL's main duty weapon (usually an MP5SD6) more than handles the job instead. The Mk23 is an answer to a question no one really asked and thus it is a red-headed step child. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundown Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 (edited) Not likely, since the game takes place during the 1960's. But you never know... But ya gotta remember... MGS 1 and 2's got stealth suits that render the wearer nearly invisible in our modern-day time frame... so it's not a far cry to suggest that less sophisticated forms of personal stealth systems were available in the '60s. They'll likely just explain it away as being the crude precursor to the ninja suit. Ta dah! =D Lame. Yes. But less lamer than believing Snake can super-fast change and that he's got 10 full sets of fatigues folded neatly and tucked away in his pocket. And besides, it's Kojima style to make up things to explain away gameplay mechanics that make absolutely no sense in a real world context. And it'd be just the thing for them to milk, taking it a step farther by having you actually collect camo scheme "memory sticks" or what not, as you progress in the game. -Al Edited April 14, 2004 by Sundown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaijin Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 It's a game...whaddya want? The camo thing is no more ridiculous than the ol' cardboard box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundown Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 See, thing is, the cardboard box is *supposed* to be silly. It's homage to the original MG, and you're supposed to get a laugh at how rediculous it really is. It's also not always effective, especially if a guard catches you moving in the least. Camo's just a little too "real" and gritty to screw up and do cornily. But the alligator suit-- that's comic gold. And MGS3's version of the cardboard box. And thus, A-OK. =) -Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JsARCLIGHT Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 I myself can forgive the quickie koala costume changes but the blind and brain dead enemies are too much. If snake had been totally decked out in a custom stalking suit or realtree camo from head to toe and lying totally motionless then I could buy it that a trained soldier walked right past him... but nooooooooooo. All I am asking is that on the harder difficulty settings the enemies at least respond like a real person would and notice that man sitting in the shrubs next to them rather than walk on by oblivious to him. I also just noticed something... some of those camo patterns (like the hideous one they are calling "fire") were not exactly around in the '60s... wonder what their super spy science fiction story will be to explain them? Perhaps snake will have a ton of what we see as modern gear which back then would have been new and strange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchVile Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 I think the reason why the guards overlook Big Boss being right next to you are because unlike the first 2 Metal Gear Solids there aren't too many places to hide behind. In MGS and MGS2 you could easily put yourself up next to a wall and look down the next cooridor. If you got found you could run away, hide in a locker, hide in a room, put on the cardboard box, ect. In MGS3 it looks like getting found is going to mean harder to get away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundown Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 I myself can forgive the quickie koala costume changes but the blind and brain dead enemies are too much. If snake had been totally decked out in a custom stalking suit or realtree camo from head to toe and lying totally motionless then I could buy it that a trained soldier walked right past him... but nooooooooooo. All I am asking is that on the harder difficulty settings the enemies at least respond like a real person would and notice that man sitting in the shrubs next to them rather than walk on by oblivious to him. Well, the enemies missing the moving grass was a bit much... but it was kind of neat to see him pass snake up when he was decked in bark camo and face paint, and flattenened against a trunk, but to eventually spot him when he wasn't wearing face grease. Now if they had it so that you were required to use *some* form of partial concealment in order to be missed by enemies up close-- where camo would only improve its effectiveness, and that any movement could still give you away-- that'd be a pretty nice deal. I also just noticed something... some of those camo patterns (like the hideous one they are calling "fire") were not exactly around in the '60s... wonder what their super spy science fiction story will be to explain them? Perhaps snake will have a ton of what we see as modern gear which back then would have been new and strange. Bingo. =) They'll likely set Snake up as field testing various camo patterns for future battlefield use, the results determining what modern day soldiers would be wearing. Imagine if they'd showed a little clip at the end of the game, of modern day soldiers wearing the scheme you most often used. And imagine if you wore fire all game long just to spite them. -Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JsARCLIGHT Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 It would be neat (and shut me up) if the game let the player pull out grass and break off branches and add them to your camo to help break up your outline better. That way they would be using a tad of logic and making snake more obscure in the process... and it would add a whole new layer to the camo thing: facepaint, camo and growies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundown Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 *nods enthuiastically* If only. And if Snake could build himself a Ghillie. -Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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